Why Microsoft forced Metro on us all

Interesting article.

Uhmm, yep, that's exactly what it feels like.

 

The true irony is, at least in my line of work, those same people tend to be the ones most frustrated by the dramatic changes in interface. They may not have found the "legacy" Windows UI to be easy or even intuitive but years of muddling their way through meant that at least they could somewhat manage to use it everyday. Getting a new computer to find what they're used to hidden or gone adds a entirely new level of tech frustration.

The minimalist approach to walking people through the new UI upon first boot was a major mistake. I've had several people call in while they're setting up their Windows 8 PC's..they almost universally say "ok now what is this" (maybe not as nicely tbh...) upon seeing the animation that Windows 8 displays at the end of the OOBE.

A UI change this deep deserved either a full multimedia tour a'la Windows XP or a interactive "now you try" walled garden of sorts to ensure people are able to at least successfully navigate the essentials*.


*yes some would argue that they shouldn't have changed the UI at all but if they were going to stick to their guns, they should have at least tried to ensure people knew how to navigate it.

 

Am I the only one here who thinks other than start menu being full screen, multi-layered menus gone and some styling changes, the Win 8 UI for desktop app users has not changed at all? What's the hype?

 

If anything it's sped up my workflow personally, as I have all my commonly used programs as big tiles on my Start screen. I also have a handful of desktop apps on my taskbar.

But I'm flexible and adaptable so I'm able to adjust to new interfaces. It's why I can use multiple operating systems without issue. I'm mellow like that.

 

i'd say both observations are a fair bit ironic.

 

The casual user response is totally expected. 5 years later they won't remember the old interface anyway. What I've found very confusing is the outrage from a large number of power users and IT pros, who act like this is the end of the productive world. Is there some kind of MS hate at play? Or do they associate a touch-friendly interface with consumers and feel disrespected?

 

Imagine if all cars suddenly were controlled by a joystick and throttle instead of wheel and pedals, speed was measured in m/min and all the ancillary controls (blinkers, wipers, headlights, etc) were changed to a single thumbstick where you needed to move it in a certain orientation for it to work. Sure some people would say "ooh ahh" that's cool, others would praise it as the next best thing, but most would say that they don't want to learn anything new. They're familiar with what works, and what they've been using for decades has worked great for them and maintained an efficient workflow.

I *despise* when people say that you just need to learn and adapt. Win 8 isn't about learning and adapting, it's about efficiency. You don't just change a couple decades of ingrain training for a common device (i.e. PC) and force it down people's throats. IT Pros and enthusiasts want to be efficient, not encumbered with some glorified tablet GUI OS. Microsoft thought they'd be brilliant by making a single OS for portable devices and PC's alike. I hate to say it, but Apple hasn't even done that, and they're the king of user interactivity.

I commend Microsoft for looking to change and improve, but you don't do it by brute force. That only leads to disgruntled and hateful customers... as has been shown.

There are a lot of good things about Windows 8, and it's too bad that Microsoft is too blind and stupid to have mitigated a lot of the discontentment by just offering users a choice of desktop with a legacy interface or Metro UI. This would have never been a discussion. I mean seriously, 99.9% of apps any person have launch on the desktop anyhow. Microsoft needs the time for everything to migrate to the Metro UI and as "apps". Developers never supported it to begin with, otherwise there'd be hundreds of thousands of apps on the app store now to replace the significant portion of legacy apps available.

 

I would like to argue that support for desktop apps is not taken away, so at least for now it's not a problem (how would MS treat desktop apps in the future remains to be seen). The only thing that's taken away (other than Aero eye candy) is the layered start menu, which is now replaced with a tiled start screen and a long list of all available apps and start shortcuts. While people may find this not as efficient as the old start menu, the amount of time spend on this interface only counts for a very tiny part of the total PC usage. It's usually no more than a few seconds for each app/file access. As long as the few seconds of "modern" inconvenience is passed, you're back to the old desktop interface again. It might be bad, but it's not a big deal.

The "cars suddenly were controlled by a joystick and throttle instead of wheel and pedals" analogy describes a much worse situation because drivers need to use the steering/throttle/brake all the time. I believe a more appropriate car analogy would be "the steering column mounted switch levels are no longer available and you have to use switches on the dashboard to control lights or wipers now". Is that bad? Maybe. Big deal? No.

 

I don't think it's MS hate at play so much as internet hyperbole at play. In real life, I know some people who like Win8, some who don't, some who prefer OSX, and a lot of people who don't care, but nobody who gets as passionate about the issue as you see on online forums.

I do think that some people here feel disrespected because of a consumer-centric approach to launching programs was added with no option short of third-party software to turn it off entirely. I've seen more than one person on NBR demand a public apology from Microsoft. Not just a change in the software itself, but a public apology. That goes faaaaaar beyond not liking a product. Yes, some people feel that they were personally disrespected by a change in the user interface of Windows.

 

I don't know about that; imo it was a pretty decent comparison. I mean, I've tried 8 for a little while (haven't tried 8.1 yet though) and my experience was filled mostly with "What... why?", "How do I get this done again?", etc. Mind you, I'm pretty flexible with operating systems and I'm certainly not opposed to change. And I actually like Modern UI in phones/tablets (well, at least my WP 7.8 is really nice... wish it had WP 8 though), but the way Microsoft executed 8 was just awful imo. At least offer an in-dept, hands-holding tutorial for new users like what was suggested above. I tried to get around 8 on my own for a few days and at the end of that week I was still utterly confused; at least some people have posted guides that are a hell of a lot more useful than what MS published (thanks, Miltov).

Yeah, demanding a public apology is a bit extreme. Personally I still hate Modern UI on laptops/desktops, but I wouldn't go that far.

Instead, my plan is to simply not buy Windows anymore until some future version gives me the UI I want. HTWingNut's spot-on about what (most) people are angry about the change: why do I need to completely retrain myself in Windows in order to get my work done when the older UI worked just fine? I can certainly see a case for change being made for really useful changes, such as going from a non-OO programming language to an OO language, or learning to use some somewhat-complex macro/batch file/bash script/etc. to speed up common tasks. But changing UI just for the sake of changing UI? Nope...

 

It does require some explanation that Microsoft should have provided from the get-go, but really don't believe that it requires "complete retraining," any more than switching Android skins from Touchwiz to Sense to vanilla Android requires complete retraining. The desktop is still the desktop, win7's windows explorer and win8.1's file explorer are basically identical, the taskbar is still the taskbar, etc. With me, when I'm working on the desktop, Start (whether a window in 7 or a full-screen overlay in 8.1) is open probably less than 1% of the time.

 

No. Notice that the majority of users complaining are proficient users of Microsoft software, typically for many years.

You're asking if people feel disrespected? Is this a trick question? People were disrespected. Sinofsky was disrespect personified. The guy got fired for exactly that.

Remember that infamous Windows 8 blog of Sinofsky? The one where he explicitly invited people to comment, and make suggestions to help improve Windows 8? The one where people posted comments, over and over again, to restore the Start Menu, which was still available via a Registry setting in both Preview Candidates? So, how were those comments taken into account? They were taken into account by ripping out all code that allowed reinstating the Start Menu, as well as the Windows Aero functionality for the final Release Candidates. I don't know about you, but this comes as close to just giving your customers the finger as it gets. And you ask if people feel disrespected?

 

I've been quite vocal about my dislike for win 8, mostly because we have one new machine at work that runs it; everything else is win 7 pro. Head IT guy hates it. I've spent enough time to get the employee used to it and she is now productive. Interesting side note is she uses OSX at home.

All MS had to do was either give users the option for classic vs metro. that's it. No seriously, super cereal, that is all they had to do. They could have even just had a separate version of windows 8 (windows 8 classic?). Sure, they'd catch flack for offering yet another version, but they've been splintering windows for so many years now (home, pro, ultimate, etc) that it would have passed over.

Where the disrespect comes in is that users told MS this. Repeatedly. Loudly. Over and over and over again throughout their alpha, beta and even now (hence the rushed update).

I've been alive long enough to know that you avoid every other version of Windows. It's just the rule. I have 3 win 7 licenses - one for each of my laptops and a 3rd for upcoming desktop build. Meanwhile, I've been learning more about Linux. Considering how popular (and good) Win 7 is, I can't fathom that they will end support for it before a newer version of Windows comes out with at least an option to return to the classic interface.

Also, the name of the OS is Windows. Windows, not tiles.

 

I think "disrespect" is a lot more than just "I want a company to do X, and I tell them that, and they ultimately choose to do Y instead." For example, I don't feel Apple has "disrespected" people who want a big smartphone by continuing to only offer small smartphones. Nor do I think Apple would be "disrespecting" people who like small smartphones if the iPhone 6 only came in a 5" form factor.

 

Unfortunately, this analogy has little to nothing to do with the situation. What happened was, company tells users to provide feedback and suggestions, users provide it, in spades, massively criticizing design decision X and Y, company then proceeds to implement design decisions X and Y, while at the same time making an active effort at removing the previously existing options for users to mitigate those design decisions.

An analogy would be your boss asking employees if they like their offices painted green, lots of employees responding that they hate the green color, and the employer going right ahead and painting everything green. Immediately afterwards morale at the company goes through the roof, because of how deeply respected employees feel...

 

Indeed. This is what I wanted. We used to have so many options when installing Win98. Tickboxes after tickboxes for features others want and someone don't.

Now I would have settled for two:
[x] Classic start menu
[x] My PC is powerful enough to run Aero

They did that in our office, before I joined in. Nasty green shade too. Luckily I only had to endure it for a six months or so before office was renovated again...

 

Even if them choosing to go with the Start Screen despite some users saying they wanted to keep a Win7 start menu rose to "disrespect," you place the blame on this "disrespect" on Sinofsky...who was fired. Why am I still seeing complaints about Microsoft needing to publicly apologize, etc., after they fired the guy who you feel disrespected your user interface preferences? And why is Ballmer--the guy who fired Sinofsky--typically the focus of this criticism?

 

man, that takes me wayyyy back. My first build was on win 98. Well, not a build, it was bought, but when the hard drive crashed (old 5.25 size iirc) I had to reinstall.

Windows 9 is supposed to be coming out in late 2015. I imagine we will see a return to the form of old, or at least be given an option to do so. I'm sure the every other MS OS being good trend will continue.

Look, I've warmed a bit to win 8. And by warmed I mean I don't want to throw my employee's computer out the window anymore (I do still want to Office Space it though). I'm glad MS decided to take a big risk. They saw what apple was doing, thought they could do it better, and figured it would be easier to leverage themselves if they could connect all of their devices via a single OS. Great idea in the boardroom, not so much in the real world. And I want to see MS keep trying to innovate, but with the added caveat that they actually listen to those users who provide feedback.

And to continue the long string of analogies, I view Win 8 as Pepsi Crystal. Pepsi Crystal was actually not THAT bad, but people who wanted a clear lime flavored soda already had Sprite and 7 up. I like my start screen, my desktop, etc. If I wanted something different, I would switch my main machine to OSX or Linux. And if MS wants to keep giving me Crystal Pepsi with win 9, I may just have to do that.

 

I'm wondering if I should buy 8.1 pro now or just wait it out to Windows 9. I do want to try Metro though.

 

I like 8.1. You can use it primarily as a tablet interface with half-time or occasional desktop usage, or you can use it as a traditional desktop Windows environment with a full-screen Start instead of a quarter-screen Start. It's pretty darned flexible depending on how you want to use it. I do the former with my VAIO Duo 11 and the latter with my Vaio F23.

 

How far we've come:

<iframe width='480' height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6jd_xt8Q9Ow" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

That's curious, because from moment one I "figured it out."

In August 1995, "Start" was brought up by clicking in the lower left corner. Or the Windows key.
In August 2012, "Start" was brought up by clicking in the lower left corner. Or the Windows key.

I'm confused as to all of these insurmountable barriers people feel Win8 threw at them. I installed Win8, I installed my games, I installed Office, I installed Chrome, and.. uh.. click tiles and run things. It ain't exactly translating ancient Sumerian. oh my god all these big squares and rectangles clearly inscribed with the apps I run what do I do here I am lost?

 

It never fails to amuse me how proud certain people are when they are able to "figure out" how they can satisfy their minimal computing needs by operating that primitive Windows 8 UI. In fairness, however, it is not surprising that it never occurs to this kind of user that some people have significantly more complex workflows, and correspondingly higher demands, which are simply not well supported in Windows 8.x. After all, when all you have ever done is ride your bicycle, it's not obvious that jet airplane pilots expect a little more than a handlebar and a bell...

 

May I get a example of your "significantly more complex" workflow?

 

we'll assume by "amused" you actually mean perplexed as to how W8 could even generate the amount of negative sentiment that it has. the original UI, the desktop -- like the UI itself, not visiual effects and customization -- is barely changed save for a full screen menu with active notifications rather than a popup menu without active notifications. it's unlikely the start menu has ever been that critical to your significantly complex workflow anyway.

this might be one of the most popular requests on all of NBR and somehow always evades addressing.

 

The head of the largest tech support firm in my region, who my firm contracts with and who I routinely work with, refers to a Thinkpad X1 Carbon Touch with Windows 8.1 as "the best experience there is in mobile computing." He also owns and loves a Surface Pro.

You have this habit of suggesting that you speak for everyone with "complex workflows" and everyone who disagrees with you has "minimal computing needs," but in fact this is simply a matter of personal preference.

 

No, but I'll give you just one simple data point: The complete hierarchy of my Start Menu holds a little more than 1,000 shortcuts. Many of these have similar names, and there's plenty of shortcuts in there the names of which I may not even remember off the top of my head. Feel free to figure out how you would handle this using Win8's primitive flat (=non-hierarchical) Start Screen. Good luck with that one.

What basis do you feel you could possibly have to assess the likelihood you speak of? Otherwise, see above.

You know damn well the answer I have given you on this very request. There is nothing to be added to that answer.

 

What's your point? There is at least one person who likes Windows 8.1? Congratulations, point taken.

You have this habit of fabricating all sorts of wondrous conclusions from what I write.

A) I never suggested anything of the sort you claim.
B) The work I do is not "a matter of personal preference". It's what I do. It's what many other professionals do, too. We don't have the kind of setups we have because we like to diddle around with our computers. We do this because it is what supports our work.
C) And, no, the work I do, or it's complexity, or the amount of money I make, etc., do not make me a better person than the next guy. All I am saying is that it imposes certain requirements on my computing environment, and those requirements are not met as well by the Windows 8 UI as they are by the Windows 7 environment. In addition, I claim that I am not the only person having such requirements.

Was that clear enough for you?

 

i'm now convinced that you've been trolling this entire board for nearly a year and a half now. i won't even ask for a screenshot of your 1,000-shortcut start menu because my head might just explode.

 

All this shows is that you seem to barely know what a Start Menu is, and how it is used. As an aside, having 100+ shortcuts in the Start Menu is pretty much standard on just about any Windows installation. Feel free to figure out how to count them, and then do so.

 

yes, Pirx -- i barely know what a start menu is, or what it does. lol

Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

A few annoyances I had with 8:

Having to use the hot corners (a game of "find the right position!");

Having to use the search bar to search apps on the Store (I understand unification of stuff, but this is poorly done);

Finding my apps in the Store app (hint: right click for a bar to slide down from the top - mindblown!);

There's a list of apps that are "not installed on this PC" (wow, you don't say - I have 5 apps, the rest are obviously not installed on this PC);

Multiple open windows hurt my eyes (too light colored, no shadows, no borders between them);

No hints in Metro apps as to what does what and how to do stuff (kind of important since it's a new UI - you have to figure most things out by yourself);

Split screen mode is too limited to be useful;

Alt-Tab switches between both desktop and Metro apps (shouldn't they be separate since one is for power users and one is for consumers? Really annoying to select the wrong app);

Windows Store is filled with crap (I still can't believe there are no good Metro UI music players to be used in split screen);

Store apps has BOTH desktop and Metro apps (so much for separation);

Sure, I can mod it to fit my needs, but for now I'll stick with 7 for as long as I can.

Some Metro apps are rather nice (MS Note for example), I'd love for them to run in desktop mode - maybe Microsoft will make that possible in Windows 9/8.2 (also return window shadows, please!).

Metro is GREAT on touch screens, but not everyone has one (I personally kinda hate them - can't even use my phone while walking)...

 

that's quite the list ya go there. this is the type of silly feedback that trickles down to both less enthusiastic users and the media alike causing ridiculously misinformed W8 blowback.

 

Yes, that much is obvious. Hey, at least you wear your ignorance with pride.

Just for giggles, I checked my travel laptop, which has what I consider a minimal install of the applications I need when traveling or on meetings. It has MS Office, of course, my standard set of text processing software, a couple of utilities, plus the utilities that came installed with the Samsung Series 9; there's no games on this laptop at all). I found:

- 111 Shortcuts which are part of the virgin Windows installation, before any third-party software gets installed
- an additional 236 shortcuts from programs I installed

On average, every program that gets installed creates about 5 shortcuts. Let me know if you need further help with the math.

P.S.: Oh, and be careful not to look at your own Start Menu, if you have one that is. We wouldn't want your head to explode, now, would we?

 

haha aww, you've felt the need to resort to personal insults again. gee, i wonder why... i love when you prove my point for me, Pirx. will you please teach me how to use a start menu as complexly as you? i'm too ignorant and i need help with math.

Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

Like I said, annoyances, but they do add up. Still, Windows 8 is a perfectly good OS (and the article linked in the first post explains nicely why it has the dual UI) with no major problems and even a few advantages - not enough to make the switch from 7, though. In the end, it's Microsoft that's losing money on this OS (and the equally annoying, but technically good Office 2013).

 

Sorry, no, I can't help you with your problems.

 

it's okay, i understand. i'm sure it's only because you have too many start menu shortcuts to count and worry about.

 

With 8.1 there's no functionality I can think of where you "have" to use the hotcorners. In fact, all four hotcorners can be disabled entirely if you want (right-click on taskbar, properties, navigation tab).

With 8.1 there's a search bar in the top right; you don't need to use the charms bar.

With ALL metro apps, toolbars are hidden by default and are brought up with a swipe from the top or bottom bezel, or a right-click at the top or bottom bezel. Metro apps are primarily for 8" to 11" screens, so this hiding feature is useful. If you're using a 27" desktop monitor, there's really no reason to be using metro apps.

Those are apps you've previously downloaded from the store but don't currently have on that particular device. This is useful (1) after an OS reinstall, or (2) for people who own multiple Win8.x devices. Other app stores, including Amazon's and Google's, have similar systems. It's not a list of every single app in the store that you have never downloaded, which is what you're implying.

I don't understand this comment. Are you talking about metro apps or desktop programs?

The right-clicking or swiping at the top/bottom bezel to reveal toolbars covers most of the functionality within an app. Unless you're complaining about individual developer's layout choices in individual apps, which (just like desktop software) is the responsibility of the individual developer, not the OS-maker.

I think it's a whole lot more useful on a tablet than an Apple-esque or vanilla-Android-esque one-app-at-a-time approach. If you're on a keyboard-and-mouse machine, use the desktop.

It switches between all open software. You could always, y'know, use strictly desktop programs if you don't want to see metro apps when you toggle between open programs.

All app stores have a bunch of crap in addition to some good apps.

I thought you didn't want to use metro split screen? If you're using the desktop, use a desktop music player. As just one option, Zune PC is still out there for a free download; I use it on my 16" VAIO laptop.

And each program is clearly labeled whether it's a desktop or metro app. I don't see how this is a problem.

Microsoft sells both, and OEMs sell laptops with both. No problem with you preferring one over another.

Maybe. But the primary use of metro apps are small touchscreens, where the desktop and desktop UIs are almost impossible to use. When on the desktop, why not use desktop software that comports with desktop UI paradigms?

So use the desktop. It's still there.