Win7 64 and DOS

Hello all,

I'm very close to buying a new laptop for someone I know, and I'm honing in on the lenovo Y570 (although which model still undecided).

The main reason this person uses a computer, is for a program that from far back in the day, came from DOS and 5 1/4" disks. Throughout the years I've been just moving the entire folder and running it fine from computer to computer (because really, who uses 5 1/4" disks anymore, amirite?)

So now that I'm ready to drop some money on a win7 64 bit system, it occurred to me.. will I be able to transfer over this program and have it run? Does anyone know if going from a 32 bit system to 64 bit would still allow this program to run? I know win7 probably has some settings to enable dos programs to run, or run it in a window or something.. but I'm more worried about the 64 bit system side of things.

Can someone help me out, please?
Much appreciated

~Rahm

 

Windows 7 x64 dropped support for 16-bit programs, which likely means you'll have to run the program through a virtual machine. If you get one of the higher-end versions of W7 you'll have access to XP Mode, which is an included XP 32-bit virtual machine that is somewhat integrated with W7.

 

Thanks for the reply!
The version of win7 I'd be getting with the system is Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64. Not sure if that's "higher-end" or not.
Again, I appreciate the response, I'll mull this over and talk to some of my friends about virtual machines, etc. Every time I help this person with an upgrade, it's always "there's no point in upgrading if I can't use this program". It's plagued me for 16+ years.

 

I don't think you need a virtualized XP install for this.

Take a look at Dosbox or FreeDOS (under VirtualBox). All these programs are free.

It's not. You'll need a copy of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate.

 

You should think about getting at least Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate.

These editions come with a XP license and also are eligible for use with XP mode.

XP mode essentially runs your programs, not only in a Virtual Machine, but also seamlessly integrates their UI with the desktop.

Windows 7's XP Mode: what it is, how it works, who it's for

Note the first screenshot. The XP applications look just like native applications, thanks to a technology called Remote Applications.

XP mode looks for applications that are being installed inside the XP virtual machine running on your laptop and creates shortcuts to those programs and places them outside on the Windows 7 Start menu, making launching those XP applications a one click affair.

**edit**

This is only partially true. If your 16 bit application interacts heavily with hardware or installs its own drivers, then Doxbox won't work. FreeDOS would be a better solution.


. . . But I would not recommend FreeDOS to a non-technical person.

 

Ha! You guys are great.

Yeah, I'm not too technical. I know I could learn all this in time.. but what I really need to know (and lacking) is whether or not I could set this all up. It's just so frustrating. I really don't want to buy this thing, spend 2-3 weeks trying out different VM's and upgrading OS's, only to find out it's beyond my grasp.

Guess I'll just have to take my time and instead of ordering something today or next week, figure out what my options are and get familiar with the process.

Thanks a lot for the great responses. On a side note.. should I have a copy of Win7 ultimate/prof laying about.. and I get a win7 home edition key.. does that key work with win7 ultimate/prof? I suppose not.. but man, that would save me some money

At least I'm running win7 ultimate, but my system is 32 bit. So I suppose I could get some practice on my system and see if I can get the program running here, then I know I could get it running on the 64 bit version. Unless, my win7 32 could run it without any of that VM roundabout.. but I'm unclear on that.

Again, MUCH appreciated.

 

Upgrading to Windows 7 Pro just to run a full, virtualized XP that runs a pseudo-DOS sounds like an expensive and nasty workaround. It frankly seems like the time and money would be better spent finding a replacement for that 16-year-old program.

The free programs I mentioned all run under XP, so if you can get it working there it should work fine under Windows 7. Test away before you buy an expensive Pro license.

 

Rahmiel: Just curious, what does this program do?

How about using 32-bit Windows 7? If you're worried about technical aspects, this is on alternative.

Now I know some forum members want to shoot me down for even suggesting this ("You're brain dead!"), but it will work. Your 64-bit key works with 32-bit versions. You can download the right version from my sig.

It all depends on the memory usage, as 32-bit Windows only gives you about 3 GB RAM. Windows 8 will not have a 32-bit version.

Otherwise, start with Dosbox and and similar alternatives first as they don't require a VM.
http://www.dosbox.com/

 

I'm the same way. I don't have time to run through tutorials and stomp out random bugs. Especially if it is for a coworker and not my own machine. I'm not paid to teach other people to use their own machines.

For example, my scanner doesn't work with Windows 7 64. It's a 32 bit driver. So I run XP mode to scan everything by clicking the scanner program

All editions of Windows come with a 30 day trial period. If you are already running ultimate, you are eligible to run XP mode. Just download it off Microsoft's website.

Download Windows XP Mode

I agree. Finding a replacement program is better in the long run.

But human psychology is resistant to change. You should see the brain wave patterns on work flow change. It is remarkably similar to experiencing physical pain.

**edit**

This is partially true. Only the retail version, e.g. in a shiny plastic box, came with a product key that is legally acceptable for both 32 and 64 versions. The product key that came with your computer, i.e. OEM , actually varies (Ughh). Some laptops came with agreements that allowed you to use both 32 bit and 64 bit. Most didn't.

 

Tell me about it. I remember hanging on to list.com for far too long after I'd switched to Windows. Man that program was great.

 

I didn't know this, since I've never had any trouble switching with OEM keys. Thanks for the tip.

 

Curious to know, does 16 bit application(be it Windows or DOS) still runs under W7 32 bit ? I don't have need for any of them(thus no access to them), just curious.

For the OP, like the other people suggest, VirtualBox + FreeDOS sounds like the simplest solution unless your DOS app relies on some dongles(I know many old DOS apps use that for copyright protection) or is hardware specific like controlling a device.

 

DOS programs are still supported under x86 Win 7. You won't be able to full screen them. Or any console program for that matter.

The newer display drivers (WDDM) dropped full screen support for console and DOS programs (It was gonna be a WHOLE lot of testing). Now if you install older drivers, eg non AERO capable, then you can still full screen them.

 

This actually remind me of something. I still have some old W98 notebook sitting around and should grab it out so can dump it into any VM(with freedos or MSDOS) and be able to run it. Back in those days, it is still possible to just move the whole thing by copying the whole C:\Windows

 

I would sooner try out the DosBox or FreeDOS options if I were you.
x64 OS doesn't support 16bit programs (which were largely written for DOS and early Windows versions) and you will have a heck of a time running it from the get go without DosBox or FreeDOS.

Virtual Machine is another option most definitely that will likely work for you.

Finally, you could also look into contemporary programs that do the same on a modern OS.
You could look at the development of the program over the years (if it was developed further) or if there are alternative programs out there.

I can understand that humans can be resistant to change, however, it's not necessarily always resistant.
Numerous people are adaptive and accepting of change.

 

Hey all, sorry for disappearing but I went and had a nice long nap.

The new notebook is for my mom. She currently has a dell desktop, but recently she's seen the advantages of a laptop (mobility/battery during power outages and our area has been pretty bad lately). I figured this would be a good upgrade for her, and reduce clutter in her workspace (space is somewhat limited).

The program she's so attached to, is a very old old old lottery program. Now.. before you laugh, she's already won a jackpot with it, and it contains all the previous draws (I think) since she's been using it. So there's quite a bit of data stored, for the program to make a selection.

Needless to say, it borders on superstition this program.

Back to my original problem about all this.. from my research, win7 64 home is capable of running a VM but not win xp mode. However, the VM is capable of having a fully licensed copy of win xp installed on it (which I have copious copies lying about here from previous machines). Source here

But I'm also trying to work through this in my head, because I know if she has to do 6-7 steps before being able to run her program, she's not going to like it. So.. can I set it up to a one click shortcut on her desktop, is another thing.

But you guys have been very helpful, thank you.

 

You should really try Dosbox before you do anything else, it doesn't require a VM.

Either that, or 32-bit Windows 7 should make the program very easy to start.

Maybe ask the Lenovo support if the key works with 32-bit W7.

 

Just want to thank everyone for there help in this thread. I'm more leaning towards buying the damn thing and working on it. Hopefully dosbox isn't that difficult to get going. I mean, it's just a simple program that doesn't need any drivers or peripherals so.. how hard could it be?

I'll give it some thought, but I think I'll be buying the notebook. But I'll sleep on it and really help her decide if this program is worth saving.

 

I would say nothing to worry, DosBox should work as your program doesn't sound like it is demanding specific hardware, just a simple program that needs access to files.

 

The notebook you are getting likely comes with a OEM version of Win7. If the program ran OK under XP then the easiest solution is to install Windows 7 32-bit on the system. The single license applies to both 32-bit and 64-bit versions.

One con is if the system comes with 4GB or more of RAM you'll only be able to use up to what the bios sets as TOLUD, which is usually 3GB or 3.25GB. Win7 64-bit will make use of all available RAM.