Win7 search woes.

Windows 7 search sucks! I am trying to locate files in a specific directory that have the word “short” contained INSIDE the file. These files are .XML files. The files are not in one of the typical indexed directories so I did the following.

From a Windows Explorer window I selected the menu “Tools | Folder Options” and selected the “Search” tab. (See FolderOptions.JPG below.)

Next, I went to “Control Panel | Indexing Options” clicked on “Modify” to add the directory to the list of those to be indexed. (See IndexLocations.JPG below) As you can see, my target directory is in the list.

I closed that window and clicked on “Advanced” and switched to the “File Types” tab. I scrolled down to the XML file type and made sure it was selected and that the radio button for “Index Properties and contents” was selected. (See AdvancedOptions.JPG below.)

I then switched back to the “Index Settings” tab and rebuilt the index.

I then went to the target directory and in the search box in the upper right I typed “short” without the quotes and got back no results.

From a command prompt, I can navigate to the target directory and type

Code:

FINDSTR -I ”short” *.XML

and immediately get results.

So why can’t Win7 search find these? I can open a generic Win7 search using Windows Key+F and type “short” in the search box and Win7 will find some XML files containing “short” in the “My Documents” folder, but not my target folder.

Anyone have any ideas OTHER than a third party tool? I want to master Win7 search not replace it.

Gary

 

I don't have an answer to your question, but I agree that the built-in search is horrible. I have no problem replacing it with a 3rd-party application.

Good luck with your quest.

 

Hmm, obvious question: Have you checked that indexing has actually had time to index that new folder? The new indexing service is really conservative, and may not start re-indexing stuff until the computer has been idle for a while. During that time, you will not be able to search for file contents. Other than that, it is also possible that the xml filter you have is broken. I think Windows 7 does not come with a native xml filter, so the filter has to be provided by a third-party application. I have found that sometimes these filters are simply broken, so you'll never be able to search files for contents.

 

Oh yes, I made sure it had finished indexing. I left the machine idle and monitored the status on the indexing locations page to make sure it was done. (See attachment below.) If Win7 doesn't have a native XML filter, then I am not sure how I did get results from XML files in my My Documents folders.

I wonder if this might be an issue that my target directory is not part of my "Libraries". I will try that latter, by adding that folder to the documents library.

Gary

 

I like Vista's built-in search... so unless they ruined it in Win 7, I think there's another problem.

First, is that word part of the xml markup or part of the document? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the iFilter is designed to skip markup (anything between angle-brackets)... since in XML "theory" that's not considered part of the document.

Secondly, try pressing Win-F and searching from that window. From there try using Advanced Search > "Include non-indexed, hidden and system files (might be slow)".

 

The search sucks, astonishingly poor, it isn't anything you're doing. I think the only option is to test different 3rd party replacements and not waste your time with it. I downloaded "Search Everything" to try as a freeware replacement. Anyone have any good recommendations?

 

Unless I'm in the wrong place:

Windows Explorer - > Win+F

There is no advance search or for that matter any other search options. It's basically Windows Explorer without a directory listing.

 

The word is part of the document, not an XML tag.

As said above, there is no "Advanced Search" in Win7. That's part of the issue.

Gary

I just tried adding the target directory to my Libraries | Documents. It had no effect. It still finds the word ONLY in XML files in the My Documents directory or sub directories.

This is just asinine.

Gary

 

Well, something is wrong here. In general, Windows Search in Win7 is the same as in Vista, and it works perfectly fine for me. As of now I have 144,255 items indexed, and as far as I can tell Windows Search finds anything I am looking for just fine.

What is really strange is that this works for you in your My Documents tree, but not outside of it. That means it is clear that the search filter itself is working fine.

P.S.: Edit: I have to partially retract what I said above: While the underlying engine is the same, the Search UI has been remarkably crippled in Win7. Can you try and see if you can find what you are looking for when using Advanced Query Syntax? More information in a perhaps friendlier format is here.

But, yes, it really looks like the interface to Windows Search that is included In Windows 7 is a disaster, plain and simple. What we should be looking for now is a third-party application that interfaces with Windows Search, but presents the old Vista Advanced Search pane. This should really be very easy to code, but I haven't found anything like that, yet.

Nonsense. None of the third-party replacements are as well supported and have the breadth of capabilities that Windows Search has. I know, I tested lots of them.

 

Yes, the UI is a GIANT step backwards. Who in their right mind made the decision to expect Joe and Jane to remember the syntax of the advanced search options? We are back to a command line interface. HELLO, Microsoft is anyone home? This is Windows, not DOS or Linux.

I am baffled. Especially give that the search works fine for files in the My Documents folder structure.

If you do find a better UI for the search engine, please let me know.

Gary

 

Pirx,

I ran a query using the advanced syntax restricting the search to documents only and with a filename having an extension of dot XML. Still found stuff via My Documents but not the target folder (named METADATA). See the first two attachments below.

This is getting more odd. Look at the last two attachments. The first one shows the current state of what folders are in the Library named documents. Now look at the last attachment and not in the path window that it thinks my METADATA folder is in that library. It was for a short while last night, when I was testing to see if that had any affect on the search. But when it did not, I pulled the folder from the library. And yes, I have rebooted since.

Gary

 

Something is really wrong here. This almost looks like your index is corrupt. In case that is true, one more suggestion, as a radical solution, would be to try and rebuild your search index from scratch. There is an option for doing that in the Indexing Options applet in the Control Panel. You might want to try that (I know, it'll take a long time).

 

As stated in the first message, I did that as soon as I added the METADATA folder to the list of indexed folders. Rather than assuming it would go ahead and index just that new folder, I decided to rebuild the entire index.

Gary

 

Sorry, I had forgotten about that.

 

I've had to resort to dropping out to a command prompt and using good old FINDSTR.

Gary

 

A little more info. Coolyguy (aka Rajesh) and I have been playing with this a bit more today.

If I go up to the parent directory of my target directory, in this case the target is "FUBAR\METADATA", so I go to FUBAR and search for "short" there. I get no results initially. But in the center pane there is a "Search again in:" with icons for Libraries, Computer, Custom, Internet and File Contents. I also see a yellow bar across the screen telling me "Searches might be slow in non indexed locations..." and offers to let me add the location to the index. I decline that offer and click the aforementioned File Contents icon and voilà I get search hits aplenty from the child METADATA folder and METADATA's various child folders as well..

If I go back to the target "METADATA" folder and repeat this, I get no warning about non-indexed locations (as expected since this folder IS indexed) I see all of the icons mentioned above EXCEPT for the File Contents icon (again as expected since "METADATA" is indexed). And I see NO results. Not expected. Anticipated, but not expected.

Search is BROKEN, my friends. Plain and simple. It is BROKEN.

Gary

 

Okay, I feel better knowing that I wasn't losing my mind looking for advance options. I've never used Vista, so I don't know what's missing in Windows 7, but I presume a much easier way to do a content search, such as just typing in what you want to find in a text field.

I believe you were the one that mentioned that you use Directory Opus. I've used Directory Opus since v4 and currently have v8 on my Windows XP computer. Directory Opus's Find works lightning fast on Windows XP and it doesn't even use a index. I plan to upgrade to v9 for Windows 7x64 in the near future. If you use Directory Opus on Windows 7, does it still work as quick?

My other favorite search program is File Finder, but it's part of PowerDesk. Nice search program, not a good File Manager. The nice thing about File Finder is that once you do a search, it keeps everything temporarily in memory, so the next search is as quick as your memory allows.

IMO, I would rather have more search options than have parts of the hard drive indexed for speed. What good is speed if you can't find what you are looking for.

 

It is as quick as on Vista, but, of course, without an index, it will be A LOT slower than any indexed solution. It has to be, since without an index, it will have to open and read all of the files in the search path (assuming you are looking for file contents). It will also not be able to search your Outlook stores, which is essential for me.

On the plus side, I have been whining quite a bit to the Opus developers about how Opus should really use the underlying Search engine of Windows Search, and they told me that this is on their list of features for Opus 10. So there is hope, I hope...

I am starting to lean towards your conclusion here. What a shame. After having gotten this right for the first time in Vista (it has existed for a long time, but was always a worthless piece of crap up until and including XP), they seem to have broken it again. You might want to carry this issue to Microsoft's support forums. I know those are regularly visited by Microsoft developers, so that may help get this fixed. Contrary to their reputation, I have always found them extremely receptive to legitimate bug reports.

Oh, just one more question: The folder you are talking about doesn't happen to be attached to your filesystem via reparse points (a junction, or a symbolic link)? If that was the case, it would explain your issues. Windows Search (intentionally) does not cross reparse points. One of the nasty consequences of Microsofts belated, and half-hearted, implementation of such filesystem constructs.

P.S.: Oh, and I should mention that we may have to thank our oh-so-beneficial friends at Google for this situation: Some of you may remember that Google in fact had forced Microsoft to partially remove some of Vista's search functionality so that Google can more easily foist their half-baked crap on people. Thanks a lot, guys, for not being evil...

 

Oh, you might just be on to something. The directory is one that under XP would have been C:\Program Files\Fubar\metadata directory but now with UAC it has been virtualized to "C:\Users\Gary\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Fubar\metadata". I am wondering now if that is the issue. Hmmmm.

Gary

 

O.k., let us know what you find.

 

I usually kill all crap in Windows but since i had 4gb new W7 i let it manage itself,let indexing ON etc... then i started to find that windows search didn't found many file i know i had... in short search is broken.

 

Windows Search (from start menu) doesn't search the whole hard disk. You need to have your file in an indexed location or do a custom search to include other locations.

 

Directory Opus also provides a much better search interface, which helps in confirming that you are preforming the type of search correctly. Certainly without the hassle of having to type in all the AQS.

With regards to the indexing service; I believe it is not recommended to have the indexing service path include C: or any other frequently changing directory. That can exclude a lot of locations where indexing doesn't do any good. Which means that it's going to be doing a brute force method a lot of the time. The trade off is allowing C: to be indexed for static searches, but without consistently rebuilding and rebuilding the index, many searches could come up short.

Of course, this presumes that Windows 7 search is working correctly.

From what I remember about Jon Potter & Dr Greg Perry, they have always been pretty good at taking user requests. So I would imagine it will happen.

Any word on when Directory Opus v10 will be released? I might wait until then before upgrading.

 

It used to be like that in Vista. Why in the world someone decided to take that away in Windows 7 is beyond me.

I think it is, the underlying indexing service, anyway. There may well be real issues and bugs in the way the user interface talks to and queries the data base.

I don't really have any official or even half-official word on that, but my feeling is second half of the year.

 

Mystery solved! Well not so much solved but certainly more understood.

After the conversation here with Pirx (thanks again and +rep), I thought the issue might be that the target folder name METADATA was a UAC virtualized folder. It was a folder the application, under Win XP or an earlier OS, would have been written as the C:\program files\fubar\METADATA folder. But with UAC virtualization of the program files directory it winds up as C:\Users\Gary\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\fubar\metadata.

In my first experiments with this, I was adding that virtual directory to the list of indexed locations and rebuilding the index. But I could never get search hits in that folder. Today I made a copy of the METADATA folder to D:\METADATA. Then with Windows Explorer I opened that folder. I tried a search which then, as expected, gave me the yellow banner across the page to tell me it might be slow since the folder was not indexed and offered to let me add it to the index. I took that option and closed the entire window. I went to Control Panel | Indexing options and verified that the folder was listed as an indexed location and waiting for the indication that indexing was complete, just a few seconds.

I then went to the start menu and typed "short" (my targeted search word) and then lo and behold I got hits in the D:\METADATA folder!!!!

So the issue is one of two things.

A. The virtualized folder was not REALLY getting indexed despite being added to the indexed locations.
B. The ridiculously lame, asinine, incomplete, useless search UI refused to return hits to the virtualized folder.

....Rant mode on...
Oh, just in case there is any doubt, I think the Win7 Search UI is the single WORST piece of code I have ever seen come from Microsoft. It is a giant step backwards into the the arcane world of command line interface that Windows was designed to replace. It is ridiculous to force users to remember this long list of keywords and options. "Advanced Search Syntax"
...Rant mode off...

Gary