Windows 10

I reckon DX12 is gonna hit hard and fast, especially as Windows 10 uptake will likely be massive. I think developers will want & also be able to take advantage of it quite quickly - it can increase complexity in the game, and there'd be a demand for that I reckon, especially as GPU power is always increasing. EDIT: And isn't the Xbone gonna be upgraded to DX12 too, so mainstream game development would be on DX12 for that too.

 

This is exactly what I keep telling people. Honestly, DX12 is the only reason for me to upgrade, and FOR THE MOST PART it is simply a way for devs to be lazy about optimizing for multiple cores. A ridiculous number of games and engines used for games today are single-thread heavy. VERY single-thread heavy. The rest use a truckton of CPU power for reasons we cannot even fathom; and it's ALWAYS much more CPU power than the consoles seem to own. I understand that draw calls are a limiting factor and whatnot, but honestly, very few games have run into that limitation right now that we know of. DX12 *IS NOT A MAGICAL FIX-ALL* and people are assuming it to be. I'm fed up seeing comments of people complaining about tessellation or broken visual effects or all of nVidia Gameworks etc etc and saying "DX12 will fix all that, I can't wait". It won't. It's not designed to automagically fix all of the current issues in games. And it'll take a good long time before it's ready for new games too, and there is a VERY small likelihood that older games will get a DX12 patch... especially if they're not receiving any other updates/dlc/patches/etc.

 

Yeah, it's not going to be a silver bullet. Its going to be all about making a PC more like an XBOX because Micro$haft's love for itself is beyond measure.

My prediction is that DX12 will introduce brand new and more complex problems than we have ever seen before. Micro$haft cannot be trusted to do anything that doesn't benefit Micro$haft to the exclusion of anything and everything else. This is their modus operandi, and has been since Bill Gates began to allow less competent businessmen decide the fate of his once magnificent empire.

Maybe so. If that doesn't happen, it's going to deal a seriously damaging blow to Micro$haft. I'm not convinced the Windows 10 uptake is going to be massive. It could be, but we will have to wait to see. It's difficult to see past the hype and discern fiction from reality sometimes. Mantle was supposed to change everything, too. Obviously, it didn't have the impact that some predicted. While there was never any lack of hype and hoopla, Windows 8 still hasn't become successful. It was and continues to be unnecessary, just as Windows 10 is unnecessary now.

Game developers are ordinary people. Ordinary people don't like change when it involves costs, learning curves and other sacrifices. If it doesn't make them more money fast, I don't know why they would be eager. I know I wouldn't be if I were a game dev. My first questions would be, " Why should I? What's in in for me? How much of a pain in the arse, what will it cost, and how fast can I make money from it?"

 

We'll see, I'm Windowed 10 out at the moment when it comes to speculations!

 

Well don't get me wrong, DX12 in itself will not be a bad thing for devs. It's just not a magical fix all as you and I know. I can't say it's a "Microsoft thing" because OpenGL Vulkan is going to be doing the same thing, and there's nothing stopping devs from using that instead of DX12 (in fact, it'd offer more compatibility as Linux and other OSes can use it)... I think it's that people are realizing that CPUs have stopped getting explosively stronger. Core 2 Quad --> Bloomfield i7 (Clarksfield and Lynnfield to a lesser extent) --> Sandy Bridge i7 were MASSIVE jumps. As was Athlon II to Phenom II. Bulldozer/Piledriver were steps backwards IPC-wise but steps forward multithread-wise. i7s have incrementally increased since Sandy Bridge with no notable improvements per-architecture. Every four jumps (SB --> Skylake for example) would bring a jump as large as C2Q --> 1st gen i7-E --> 2nd gen i7, but if Haswell is barely enough now, waiting until cannonlake's successor is not a feasible idea. So what do they do? Bypass the CPU as much as possible.

That being said, again, it's not like we're gonna reap the benefits for another 6 months to 1 year (or longer) after Win 10's release for DX12. At least I'm sure it won't vanish without a trace like DirectX 11.2
Anybody remember that? XD

 

Ugh. Finally decided to install Windows 10 and not happy.

One issue makes it unusable for me right away. I can't log in to my WHS if I use a Microsoft Account. I can if I use a local account, but it seems Windows updates are disabled if you use a local account. Searching for "Windows update" just searches and searches. Using a Microsoft account it's all there. I really hope that's just a preview thing, because that's a bit moronic to require a Microsoft account for Windows updates.

 

Good to know that. I specifically do not want Windows Updates. I don't use them for Windows 7 or 8 either, and I have no intention of starting with Windows OS X. I thought using local accounts was no longer allowed. I despise logging in with a M$ account. So, both of those are good news to me.

 

With the preview when you install Windows you have to log in with a Microsoft account. But after install you can change it to a local account. I think it may just be a preview build thing though for tracking user input for feedback. I can't imagine they'd disable updates altogether with the final build.

 

As long as I can disable Windows Updates there won't be any problem. If I can't with Windoze OS X Pro, I will not keep it even if it works well. I just don't allow Micro$oft to install ANYTHING on my system, EVER. Only I have that privilege.

 

From the M$'s feature comparision info, IIRC
Home - Auto update, 0 choice of user.
Pro - Only can disable or Postpone, No optional management of updates & must install updates, if not chose to disable.
Enterprise - Full control over update system.

Win10 is strictly a restricted user environment when pitted against the Win8+ & Win7..

 

Yup. This is why I am probably going to decide it blows real bad. These losers are not going to own me or my private property. They can drop dead before I will allow that.

If Windoze OS X is actually worth having, which is questionable at this point, I will have to only consider the Enterprise version or not at all.

 

Looks like you're not going to be using Windows 10, then.
http://www.howtogeek.com/219166/you...-or-delay-windows-updates-on-windows-10-home/

 

Micro$lop should learn a lot from the Android Ecosystem, the M release focuses on the full user control of the OS's UX, Envinronment, an apex characteristic feature of an OS. So tiny against Windows ecosystem and userbase, but still it matters.
Very sad this is the future of M$, their perception of PC is like a full blown console kiddo OS, c'mon we don't want another Xbox..

 

You know the future is bleak when OS X suddenly looks more attractive, dual booting Windows 7 for games...

 

I forgot to mention a really big thing I'm looking forward to in 10, potentially the biggest upgrade vs 8.1: finally being able to replace Chrome.

Chrome's UI and navigation features are brilliant (which is why I continue to use it as my primary browser over IE11). However, it is a mess, an absolute mess when it comes to GPU acceleration and scrolling. It lacks smooth scrolling unlike IE11 - even with extensions it cannot be fixed. Additionally, it lacks decent hardware acceleration, creating much higher CPU usage and thus, greater heat generation and fan noise. It is a night and day difference between them.

Edge should hopefully combine the essential navigation/UI features of Chrome with the essential functional hardware acceleration and smooth scrolling of IE11.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Have you ever tried Edge already? I have a strong feeling that you haven't.

 

Nope. Just wishful thinking, screenshots from tech sites and experience of using IE11.

Why? What's wrong with it? Please share your experience, it's one of my most anticipated new features of 10!

Edit: just realised something... until it supports Adblock it is useless to me. Oh well.

 

Microsoft's Edge supposed to use addons in the future. But now it looks like Kindle's browser, really. It's like best for readers and tablets but as for classic browser I prefer Firefox. I can even move Close/Minimize tab 1 inch left so it wouldn't be covered by autohidden Task Panel on the right. 100% that MS will not give you the same freedom.

 

Yeah, when I first saw the blue "e" I thought it was IE. It was just a horrible mess. I downloaded some files and it said the file was downloaded, but it only saved the *.partial file, it never converted it to the .zip or whatever file it was supposed to be. There's no right click navigation. It doesn't feel intuitive at all. IE is no better at this point.

I hate to say it, but I may have to stick with Win 8.1 for a while.

This is just another example of MS not listening to their customers but doing it the way they want it done. I may have to do a Linux / Win 7 or Win 8.1 dual boot. Tired of this crap. Only reason I want Windows is for gaming any more. And if Steam OS can start getting big titles on their OS then we can say good bye to Windows. Good riddance.

 

Edge(like IE) is nice for low powered and touch machines, but replace chrome/firefox on moderate performance laptops? not anytime soon.

Or if you watch alot of WQHD/QHD youtube, then edge/IE gogogogo~

 

I think I broke Mr. Fox; he hasn't replied yet and it's been almost half a day. Usually corporate control schemes get instant replies from him XD.

Hence why I will NOT be updating to Win 10 until months after its release. When the bugs are ironed out and any problems are spoken about/fixed by the community, I'll move onto it. AND only if it actually improves things in some way. If it gets rid of Win 8's silly CPU performance limiter, great. If it keeps Win 8's benefits? Even better. If DX12 isn't a huge flop and/or used by 10% of new games? Fantastic! But if none of these things happen, I'll simply sit with 8.1 because there'd be no point to 10.

 

so long as it can be fixed within the 1 year free upgrade period.

 

@D2 Ultima you cannot break @Mr. Fox he is always present and only responding when he deems the thread worthy. He's obviously decided, like me, that Windows 10 is not worth his time.

 

See... they are Nazis... nasty Nazis. Hitler thought of himself as a god also, and those that didn't worship him had things pretty rough. Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile. But, all of the zombie adopters won't know any difference. Most consumers are probably already letting them run the show with Windows 7 or 8, so it will be status quo... mediocrity du jour.

If it's a dismal failure, it will probably end up being mandated that all of us "upgrade" by executive order. I could see them pulling some sort of ridiculous stunt like revoking all non-Enterprise Windows licenses and denying product activation for OS versions released prior to Windows 10. They want Gestapo control over everyone, and they're not kidding.

I also expect it to have special undocumented features, including a fancy new back door for DHS, just so they can keep us all safe from the boogie man. Gosh, it's so nice to be loved. We'll all sleep better knowing we are being monitored by cell phone and PC.

 

add to that G00gl3 or 4ppl3 on the phone and that gives you a perfect lack of security! Great! I love the way technology is moving forward..NOT!

Windows 7 FTW, the new XP

 

I have a feeling that this forum which is an Anti Windows 8 in general is soon going to also be an Anti Windows 10. At least this is one forum that appreciates the beauty of Windows 7 unlike other forums where if you say something bad about their new shiny toy they will attack you as if you offended a member of their family.

 

For anti-Windows 8 forum we sure have a lot of people using Windows 8...

 

TBH, not an anti-Windows 8 or anything else forum. Here however you are allowed to voice opinions and post all facts. We do however keep a tight leash on personal attacks etc..

 

Let me get this straight ... "Microsoft says feature updates will be tested on consumer devices before they’re rolled out to business PCs" ... So they are using MY PC to test their crap before rolling them out to Businesses ????

 

Yep, normal versions users are sheep for the integrity tests of the update, before applying them to the enterprise version of Win10.
Lol !

 

Does Windows 10 also have the issue of increased memory usage over time (assuming, related to Windows updates)? For example, after a fresh install (and after I've installed all of my programs before running updates), Windows uses approximately 1.9GB - 2GB of RAM upon restart. I'm seeing close to 3GB after updates.

 

Of course! We are all an expendable resource. And, all of our "devices" are disposable. All equal, homogeneous replicas that are part of the Skynet family of human DNA farms that fuel the machine. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

 

Does anybody have any creditable info regarding the duration which MS will continue to support windows 10? I did search internet, but the only thing I can find is that windows 10 will be free fro the "device's lifespan". My question is that who will decide this lifespan.

I am currently running windows 7 which MS will support until 2020. With MS giving away windows 10 freely, I fear that they may turn windows OS into a subscription base service of after 2-3 years or whatever is their perceived "device's lifespan".

 

I think their plan is Windows 10 will be the "final" Windows, that is constantly changing to whatever they want it to be with unfettered access to "update" your system whether you like it or not. The device's lifespan verbiage they are using has been a little bit controversial and nobody really knows what that means. I expect that will be determined based on their discretion and infinite wisdom and the end user will have no say in the matter.

Possibly the most basic definition would be it's free until that device stops working, but I seriously doubt they are that committed. I know people that have 8088 and 286 PCs that are still functional running original versions of DOS and Windows. They are not worth using, but they still work.

 

Not to mention that I personally know a bunch of folks who are running W7 and W8.x on their Pentium M systems from a decade ago...now, with a "free" (which will be everything but IMO which is a whole another matter) upgrade to W10 they get the "latest and greatest" OS without having to spruce up for the new hardware.

Does that approach realistically make any sense? Not in my opinion. Which won't stop people from following the "upgrade" path described above whatsoever.

 

Well this is what makes me skeptical, why would a company launching their flagship product not provide full information upfront, unless they have something to hide. They have already put windows 10 download notifiers in our system trays and expect us to blindly follow them. There is something fishy here and I will wait until it is crystal clear regardless of what benefits windows 10 offer.

 

Every system I come across that has the Windows 10 update notification I consider infected with Malware! I quickly uninstall KB3035583 or whatever its number is and reboot and then hide that nasty update in order to not have their systems crippled with a new OS that has no OEM drivers (FN Keys, Audio Chipset Driver enhancements, etc.)

I wouldn't update a program if a new version is released, let alone upgrading from on OS to another! That would gives us a nice OS full of registry errors and unknown event logs

 

Same here. Windows Updates have broken many of these in the past, even when users were reasonably careful. My time is way too expensive - in more ways than just one - for me to sit and try to undo the damage done by forced updates of *any* kind.

Indeed. Some of us have been around long enough to know that "the latest and greatest" can often be everything but...

 

But it's fun to break people by producing so much stupid in front of them that they are plain and simple too dumbfounded to respond and require time to assimilate the information presented and formulate a response. =D.

 

Absolutely. You have every good reason to be suspicious and I think it would be foolish to think they have our best interests in mind. One advantage to something being "fishy" is being easy to spot. It doesn't take a well trained sniffer to detect the stench... it's pretty obvious, even if you're not sure what kind of fish. The moment I heard the announcement that it was going to be free to a large population I knew there was going to be something sinister behind it. We don't know all of the details and nuances yet, but something evil this way comes.

I enjoy doing that also, but I was busy doing a bunch of other things and did not see your post until after midnight.

Our old friend, Batboy, used to frequently say "the latest ain't always the greatest" and that is so true. Automatic Windows Updates have always been a haphazard and dangerous thing to allow. Having worked for multiple large corporations for almost 30 years, with many tens of thousands of Windows computers in each of their fleets, NOT ONE of them allows automatic updates. Out of multiple dozens of updates that Micro$oft indiscriminately vomits into the interwebs every year, you can often count on one hand how many are actually important enough to make their way into the corporate fleet. They cannot afford to lose millions fixing broken machines, nor do I want to waste any of my discretionary free time cleaning up their feces at home.

My updates more or less mirror theirs. If there is a serious enough security issue to warrant installing an update on the corporate system, chances are I will install it on mine, too. Otherwise, there is no point. It's rare to see a Windows Update that actually improves performance. Most of them actually slow things down and represent little more than wasted disc space.

 

Now this RTM will be bugged since day one & issue updates and pressure the home, pro editions of win10, a rotten corporation M$ has become now...infecting the PC's with the auto-crap & bugged final release.

Win7 RTM was rock stable & SP1 made it flawless, too bad they don't even care for Win7 type UX anymore.

Edit : new joke , just remove/hide everything that works is the new motto. Make it more appealing to kids..

 

Gentlemen.... These are very dark times

 

This is a change though, this time I need to post little and can just sit back and just watch.

 

The forced updates of Windows 10 now make Windows 8.1 the last, best, newest Windows where you can control any updates....... oooohhhhh the irony First everyone hated it, an now it's the last buoy to cling to

 

Darn after using 10 for a few hours and despite me hating Windows 8 before......now I can see, pllllllllllease give meh teh 8!!!!!!!! I'd happily adapt and live with that somewhat bad OS as opposed to 10.

 

Sorry but I'd rather adapt to Linux.

 

Indeed, they are.

It isn't difficult. The distros I have used are good. The only reason I don't already use it now is limited functionality as an enthusiast OS. SLI support and high quality overclocking, benching and gaming applications (at least popular applications that are ubiquitously recognized) are close to non-existent. There is not really any good gaming API for Linux. But, this is sort of the exception as Linux can do most of the things many users need really well.

 

Remember when I said I would never think about upgrading an OS and always do clean installs, seems like it isn't just me.....look at the errors this d00d found:

WIN 10 Upgrade vs WIN 10 Clean Install

And that is guy that knows what he's doing, imagine all those poor computer n00bs with their 1 year old or even older systems that are already plagued with a crippled registry / lots of background errors, Windows 10 will destroy their PC.....literally

 

I install what I feel is worth installing. Like .net v 4.5.2 and its default security update, or windows defender definitions (as that's my primary always-on antivirus).

While it's stupid that it'll be necessary, I'm certain we'll get some kind of mod to turn off Windows Updates. I already know for a fact I'm going to be using Stardock Start 10 just like I do with Start 8, and I'm sure you've modified your windows 8 installs a lot more than I have.

 

As the Fox man said.... SLI support is a big problem, not to mention most laptops with nVidia cards won't boot without using the nomodeset kernel flag to block nouveau... Then you have to figure out how to blacklist nouveau and install the real nVidia drivers... Trust me, it's not fun.

Steam is going to bring some interesting changes to Linux if it's successful though... Maybe nVidia would make a driver that supports mobile SLI or SLI for a game newer than Unreal Tournament 2k4... Time will tell.

I'm upgrading to 10... On my desktop. My laptop is my primary machine and I'm going to wait before I risk it... I'll keep running development builds on my dual boot.