Windows 10

OK, wow... that is EXACTLY the same sort of difference I found when comparing Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 to Windows 10's first three or so release candidates. That is when I stopped wasting my time with the Insider Program. All it did was make me more upset with each build release. Very sad and pathetic so many people have no idea that their systems are delivering progressively lower performance with each Windows version released after Windows 7. Some actually claim performance enhancements, but by my measurements on more than once system, the exact opposite it true. Maybe they are assuming that slightly shorter boot times using UEFI Secure Boot/Fast Boot has some sort of relevance to overall performance. I refuse to enable either of those digital cancers on my systems. Faster booting is nice, but certainly not at the expense of what happens after you reach the desktop. I never measure boot time unless there is some kind of new and abnormal problem that surfaces. As long as it doesn't take some ridiculously long amount of time, I don't really care whether boot time is 5 seconds versus 15 seconds... it just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

Quotes below should be worth a few chuckles in this thread also...

 

I've got my "free" windows 10 reserved on 5 machines currently, now I'm second guessing following through with any of them lol. Well no matter what I will at least try it on one of my older machines.

 

Just beware of the 30 day license issue. I will repeat again, M$ should be fair about this license thing and on all new machines with Windows 10 it should give the 30 day downgrade option to either Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 on those machines! Either that or just give up on the 30 day license expiration.

 

frackin' MS! not sure if it's ok to use coarse language so will be safe.

 

Sorry I haven't been following this thread lately, do you mean that if one upgrades his Windows 7 license to Windows 10, the Windows 7 license would no longer be active after 30 days and it's dead?

 

See here:

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/02/computerbase-you-have-30-days-to-downgrade-windows-10/

Now, if your system has a W8.x license embedded in BIOS or you restore W7 with OEM factory media I can't see that limitation flying whatsoever. With retail and other similar licenses...I'd be *very* careful.

 

now i want to cancel my reservation but i can't!

 

So? That doesn't answer what I said. Here, let me spell this out for you one more time: There is no meaningful difference in boot times between Win7 and Win8.x.

 

True, while Windows 8 might boot a bit faster, it delays some drivers and services that are non system critical until others have loaded. End result, both will be fully functional at the same time from powering the machine on. Just getting to the desktop is a cheap trick done by Micro$h4ft to make 98% of the people think it boots faster.

 

TBH, I have never noticed a difference in boot speed between Windows 7 and any Windows 8.x variant I have ever used. Both have booted at the same speed from what I can tell, so much so that I have never felt a difference between the two. Most likely because I have SSD's in every machine that I have. I have never ran a UEFI/Fast Boot enabled install of Windows 8.x on any of my machines either, so I've never been "blessed" with Micro$oft's true Windows 8.x experience. For the sake of argument though, if there is a difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 boot times, it's something I would only notice if I benched the startup time and then compared the two.

Besides, the potential UEFI/Fast Boot increase in boot speed isn't worth it to me if I have to run Windows 8.x or 10 in it's full feces infested UEFI/Fast Boot glory. No thanks.

 

So, in essence, what most are saying is that Windows 10 is such a huge turn-off that it downgrades your 5.25 inch hard drive to a 3.5 inch floppy... metaphorically speaking, of course.

 

If they (Microsoft) keep up with this nonsense, investing in Red Hat shares might prove to be a very smart move...

 

Frackin' you say? So, now Micro$haft is in the oil business, too?

 

They wish... they can't even do hardware right... and would just muck it up - literally. Frackin' muck.

 

Can't because of some technical issue? There is a "cancel reservation" function in the windows 10 upgrade app thingy.

 

No.

Microsoft has their "must upgrade" list which is the equivalent of Santa Claus' "naughty" list

 

There is for me. My brother just clean installed 7 on a new SSD. My 8.1 install boots up much quicker comparatively. I notice the difference.

 

(couldn't quote the messages you quoted so cut & pasted them):
The Ghosts said:
i tried using the intel win 10 betas and win 10 would just stop recognising the 980m even though it was visible in the UEFI.
Mr. Fox said:
In accordance with Lord Micro$haft's decree, your behaviors are being policed @thegh0sts... Your machine did not ship with 980M. Windows is checking your hardware ID against its database of "authorized" hardware configurations. His Excellency also saw that evil INF mod that "unsigned" your driver. Both are prohibited by Lord Micro$haft. Look on the bright side... You can sleep better knowing you are protected from your own devices and you have been redeemed from your wicked and unconscionable act of disobedience in upgrading your machine. Insubordination with this directive going forward will be dealt with swiftly, and without mercy.



I really hope this is not going to be the case, because I won't be able to use Windows 10 on my laptop at all! (I know, you think that's probably gonna be a blessing!)

 

Talking of floppy drives... I have heard the floppy drive support is removed in Windows 10. Not that I use floppys anymore but I still got some disks at home and an external floppy drive

Regarding the performance of Windows 10 vs Windows 7 and 8: yesterdays I saw a youtube benchmark and additionally some benchmarks in game magazine - both showed that Windows 10 were worse in performance. Not much, but still a bit. So it confirms what is said here...

 

That's by the far the dumbest move they made within forced updates joke; because now those users who want to upgrade solely to test the whole DX12 thing, now won't be able to do it as MS wouldn't let these pieces of hardware function properly because they know the best drivers for your machine

 

That was mostly a joke, but I fear it might have some merit. I hope not as well, but I won't have my surprised look on my face. I'm going to test Windoze OS X as well. I am curious and want to be in a position to either be pleasantly surprised or back up my contempt for their incompetence with debate-killing data, benchmarks, videos, etc.

Oh yeah... floppy drives are a "security thread" because that supports booting DOS and leaves an opportunity for us to access things they don't want us to have access to. Bootable USB will most likely be next on their list of banned power user features, for the same reasons. They are not only on a mission to protect us from ourselves, but also shield us from their former awesomeness. When their evil plan comes full circle, the mandate for OEMs to ship machines with UEFI Class 3 BIOS (zero Legacy/CSM support) as a condition for WHQL certification will even prevent Windows 7 from being bootstrapped. They are absolutely not "good people" and their intentions are vile. Let's hope there are at least a few OEMs that care about customers more than blind obedience to the machine, and value their own integrity and autonomy enough to tell the Redmond Mafia to insert WHQL certification into a smelly orifice where the sun never shines. It has never been important or necessary, but they have the OCD malware-phobic general population of tech noobs convinced otherwise. They actually tout the digital emasculation as a "feature" of sorts.

What you saw on YouTube would be consistent with the testing I did of the first few builds before throwing in the towel and backing away so they could get their mess sorted. Sounds like they haven't. There was a moderate, but still very noticeable and measurable, decline in performance from Windows 7 to 8/8.1 and a minor drop from 8/8.1 to 10. Of course, comparing 7 to 10 the decline is more dramatic. Even a small decrease in performance is unacceptable. We should at least see a minor uptick with each version update, and we would if newer actually meant better.

Again, this was mostly humor with a tinge of speculation on my part. It could be what is happening in @thegh0sts situation, but I have nothing to base it on other than suspicion and an expectation of underhandedness from them.

I certainly hope so. Somebody has to keep them honest. I suspect that maybe a part of what is driving Alienware's problems with crippled hardware and locked-down firmware could be blind obedience to the mandates of the Redmond Mafia. After all, they are self-proclaimed "partners" LOL. Speaking of partners, like my dearly departed mama used to always say, "Son, if you hang out with pigs you're going to get covered with mud and live on slop." For those that don't have a farming and ranching heritage, pig slop is often comprised of the nasty spoiled food stuff that is no longer fit for human consumption... but, it's good enough for pigs, and they don't care. They also enjoy feasting on their own excrement.

The more monkey wrenches we can toss into their pathway, the happier the ending has a chance to be. Even if they win in the long run, we can at least draw blood, cause a degree harm to their agenda, and make things more difficult for them. If we quietly comply, it's going to end very badly. So, everyone, let's get out there and drop as many BB's down their carburetors as possible.

 

Mr. Fox, the drop in performance from Win7->Win8->Win10, is this a drop in CPU or GPU performance or both? Also, this drop in performance is it related to power consumption caps rather than a 'generic' performance decrease - reason I ask is because I know you're operating with a lot of Watts, so I'm hoping that my more modest consuming CPU & GPU will not be performance reduced going from Win7->Win10 - what do you reckon? (Have you got some % reduction figures for an idea of performance reduction?)

 

Physics scores in 3DMark, so CPU I do believe.

 

yeah there's no proof that it's just malfunctioning OS or if it's intentional.

 

That's already happened with Windows 8. Most if not all SanDisk USB drives bought today are not bootable, with the explanation that it "increases compatability with Windows 8"

 

Can confirm that Sandisk Cruzer are not compatible. Sandisk Ultra are, however.

 

@Robbo99999 - below is a compilation of feedback provided on Windows 10 Technical Preview before I backed away from it. Sorry for the variety of font sizes and wall of text. Where this was posted was in HTML format and it refuses to parse correctly in a spoiler. I tried to tidy it up a bit for this forum, but that will take too much time and effort. Some of this (hopefully) has improved since I was participating in the Insider Preview. As the case is going from Windows 7 to 8, going from 8 to 10 the performance hit is on the CPU. Micro$haft has done something since Windows 7 to really screw up CPU performance.
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[parsehtml] <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">OK, I have some more info to share on this "special" new Windows 10. This time the testing is being done with the M18xR2, comparing Windows 7 to Windows 10.</span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">3D Graphics Performance</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">There is a lot that needs to be done to make this product ready for the public where 3D graphics performance is concerned. It's full of bugs. Things are goofed up pretty bad, especially with regard to DX10. Interestingly enough, DX9 works <span style="text-decoration: underline;">much</span> better with Windows 10 than DX10 does. As expected, DX11 seems relatively bug-free. </span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">3D performance testing on the M18xR2 and Alienware 18 on DX10 produces equally horrible results. Using 3DMark Vantage, the video below provides an extreme example of the terrible mess you may encounter on-screen running a DX10 game or benchmark... The issue is identical on the Alienware 18 and M18xR2, so it should be safe to say this is broken until they fix it. Feedback has been sent to Micro$oft.</span></p> <p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uUk38oinRi4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">This also further documents the problem that Mr. Robert pointed out in one of his posts. You can run WEI from an elevated command prompt and watch things error out on the DX10 portion of the test.&nbsp;Type "winsat d3d" (without quotes) and press enter. If you use the d3d -dx10 switch the entire test will error out. You can also use WEI to test 3D graphics performance, and you will see in the screen shots below that Windows 7 results are much better than Windows 10. Hopefully, the combined efforts of Micro$oft, NVIDIA and AMD will fix this so that Windows 10 is at least equal to Windows 7 in Direct3D performance.</span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">CPU Performance</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">This is where things got a little bit more interesting. For reasons I cannot explain, other than Haswell being a lousy product, CPU performance is not as far off the mark. Windows 10 performance seems to be better with an Ivy Bridge processor. I would have expected the opposite to be true. Windows 7 still maintains a slight edge in CPU and memory performance, but test results are much closer with Ivy Bridge CPU.</span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">More Benchmark Results</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Below are additional screen shots showing 3D graphics performance, CPU performance, memory speed testing and Direct3D WEI performance testing (along with the DX10 errors). </span></p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: inherit;">Clicking each image should open it in a new window to allow viewing the image full size with readable text.</span></strong></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">3DMark 11 (DirectX 11) - <a href="http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/8847365/3dm11/8842811" target="_blank" title="Futuremark Validation URL">LINK</a></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/FmJ0Ro5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/FmJ0Ro5.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">3DMark Vantage (DirectX 10) - <a href="http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dmv/5136495/3dmv/5135607" title="Futuremark Validation URL" target="_blank">LINK</a></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/gJzBGUD.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/gJzBGUD.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 7 Ultimate x64</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/882OQpN.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/882OQpN.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/oEkFnmY.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/oEkFnmY.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/7jUzvVq.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/7jUzvVq.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 10 Technical Preview</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/hQBtaUH.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/hQBtaUH.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/H6ucTaT.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/H6ucTaT.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/tHjQNlx.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tHjQNlx.png" alt=" " width="550" /></a><br /></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">&nbsp;</span></p> <div style="clear: both;"></div> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Actually, Windows 8 performance decreased slightly compared to Windows 7 in most things, but especially in the area of CPU performance. I'm a real nut about this kind of thing and take it very seriously. For some reason the "professional" reviews posted online are often inaccurate. I could speculate about the reasons for that, but my assumptions probably would not be very nice things to say about the people doing those reviews. </span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">I will acknowledge that the professional reviewers are often not using high end hardware that is heavily overclocked. Windows 8 performance differences are probably less remarkable running on average hardware at average clock speeds. And, I also doubt they are spending the hours and effort that I am on tuning and tweaking to extract every scrap of performance possible to climb another notch on the leader boards. Windows 8 most often fails to deliver good results under that kind of pressure. There are a few benchmarks where it does a shade better, but not many.&nbsp;Going from power on to desktop 1 or 2 seconds faster and similar measurements are not things that I place great deal of emphasis on. I had rather pay more attention to what happens after loading the desktop.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">I am passionate about performance so I am often struggling with a feeling of discouragement because I see what seems to be a trend of dumbing down the emphasis performance and an increase in valuing form over function taking place in technology... increasing fascination with shiny gizmos and gadgets. The dumbing down seems to be happening to some extent with hardware as well, but they are calling that "efficiency" rather than "less powerful." I suppose that sounds better to consumers and makes it easier to sell something less for more.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">I was an early adopter of Windows 8, but quickly noticed the degraded performance that came with it. A lot of gamer buddies in other forums jumped on the "8 is great" bandwagon and were quick to make claims it was faster (possibly based on what they had read versus any testing they had personally done). I have posted a number of benchmarks at Notebook Review Forums to address the comments from people that claimed Windows 8 improved performance. A dual-boot machine comes in mighty handy for that. Windows 8 performs better in a few things, but more often than not there is a slight decrease. Windows 8.1 and 8.1 Update 1 did nothing to fix that. </span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">So now Windows 10, unless they do something to fix it, degrades performance another notch about equal to the drop between Windows 7 and Windows 8. I have already seen a few defensive responses in another forum with comments like, "yeah, but it's really close" or "it's not enough difference to matter" or "cut 'em some slack... it's a preview version" LOL. The trouble I have with that is a little bit here, a little bit there, after a while accumulates to be more than a little bit. That's not progress as I see it... it's just another compromise.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The dummies at Micro$haft are doing some really funky stuff to kill CPU performance for some reason. The RTC problem that was introduced with Windows 8 still is not fixed with Windows 10 preview. Windows 8 remains banned from many benchmark competitions because the RTC errors produce inaccurate results that make some of the benchmarks report inaccurate numbers that look better than they actually are. I am truly hoping they fix this with Windows 10. I want a newer, better OS, but it is going to need to actually perform better, not worse, to make it a worthwhile endeavor.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Here is a table showing the testing I have do so far. I can post links and screen shots if anyone wants proof to support the numbers. As you can see, the decline in CPU performance is deplorable. The gap will hopefully narrow a bit once OS optimized display drivers are released, but I will not hold my breath on that. I thought so with Windows 8 and I am still waiting for that to occur. I want everything to be better, not just a few things, and performance is at the top of my personal list.&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/oTiaPBD.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/oTiaPBD.jpg" alt=" " /></a></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Doing this kind of testing can be rather time consuming if done meticulously. If I can scrounge up the extra time, I will do similar testing with my M18xR2 showing how much better Windows 7 performs, especially with respect to CPU. I am dual-booting it now and may set it up as a triple-boot with Windows 10. The gap between 7 and 10 will be interesting to look at. I just hope it is a narrower gap than what I expect to find.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Technical Preview aside, round number two for this unresolved issue is inexcusable. Any wagers on whether they ignore the problem and leave it broken like they have Windows 8?</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/nGhIBSQ.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/nGhIBSQ.jpg" alt=" " /></a></span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">And yes, it does make benchmark scores "fluffy" when, in reality, they are not. [<a href="http://www.futuremark.com/support/troubleshooting#validation.anomaly.TIME_MEASUREMENTS_NOT_AVAILABLE" target="_blank">LINK</a>]</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/gmrxwxS.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/gmrxwxS.jpg" alt=" " /></a></span><br /></span></p> <div style="clear: both;"></div> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">I took time to set up the M18xR2 in a triple-boot configuration with Windows 7, 8 and 10 to better support direct comparisons between them with a lower possibility of variance or error.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">There have been several enthusiast publications highlighting that Windows 8 SSD performance had degraded a bit compared to Windows 7. SSD RAID0 TRIM support is less reliable on Windows 8 as well... sometimes hit or miss with TRIM.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">I decided it would be worth a look at SSD performance with Windows 10, and hoped to find some clear evidence of improvements.&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">As expected, Windows 7 SSD performance is slightly better than the other two. But, depending on the software used for measuring, Windows 10 appears to be just a tad worse than Windows 8. What I was looking for here was better performance than Windows 7, and we're not quite there yet.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 10 performance may well improve with driver optimizations, but we are not off to a nice start. Why it does not perform at least as well as Windows 8 at most things is a mystery. While none of the differences I have identified thus far are huge when taken individually, the progressive decline in performance with each OS version is a most undesirable trend. It should get better in time or, at minimum, should maintain the status quo.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">I even gave Windows 10 a head start on the SSD benching. I did the testing from newest to oldest OS, saving the Windows 7 SSD benching for last.</span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 7</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/E8hd2YS.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/E8hd2YS.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a></span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 8.1.1</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/NAmkasU.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/NAmkasU.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a></span></p> <p><strong><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">Windows 10 Technical Preview</span></strong></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;"><a href="http://i.imgur.com/SEZkmpC.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/SEZkmpC.jpg" alt=" " width="550" /></a></span></p> <p></p> <p><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 100%;">As an anecdotal observation, it seemed like Windows 10 read/write performance degraded faster with repetitive testing than Windows 7 or 8. It seems like it started off faster and tapered off more rapidly. On each OS I ran AS SSD first, Anvil second and CrystalDiskMark last.</span></p> <div style="clear: both;"></div> [/parsehtml]

 

An excellent compilation of testing work you've done there comparing Window 7/8/10! I read it all, and what I'm taking home from that is that Haswell really sucked on Windows 10 in comparison to Ivy Bridge for some reason. Basically, your Ivy Bridge Windows 7 vs Windows 10 CPU results were pretty much identical apart from the 3DMark11 physics score where Windows 10 was worse by 8%. Whereas, your Haswell CPU choked on Windows 10 big time for some reason. This gives me some hope with my old Sandy 2630QM that performance will be similar with Win10, given that it's an older architecture (and not Haswell!). 3DMark Vantage GPU score was low in Windows 10, but you did say it was glitching out in DX10, so perhaps that's a temporary blip.

SSD performance worsened in Win10 according to your tests, it was CrystalDiskMark that I viewed quickly amoungst your results. It didn't worsen significantly, but not good to see a decrease. It's something I could sacrifice for DX12, as I have plenty of SSD performance already for my needs anyway. The disparity in CPU performance is the most critical part, and I hold out hope that SandyBridge won't be negatively affected by Windows 10, unlike Haswell (well at least on your extreme overclocked system). Did you test any stock CPU Haswell Win 10 vs Win 7 results? (Haha, I feel guilty for asking given all the info & testing you have already done & provided!)

EDIT: Not good to see a decrease in gaming performance for your Haswell system there. I think some of those differences in game benchmark results are due to your Haswell CPU choking on Windows 10 - the Batman Arkham Origins benchmark where you got a 40% odd decrease in performance - that was at high fps of 140 so I'm thinking that might have been CPU limited for you. Perhaps possible the decrease in CPU performance of Haswell on Windows 10 could explain the other slightly lower game benchmark scores perhaps too. What do you reckon, do you think the poor game benchmark performance was due to your CPU being negatively affected by Windows 10, as opposed to the GPU being directly negatively affected?

 

@Robbo99999 - not sure what to make of it. I think it may have been CPU related. I'm hoping it has improved with more recent builds. I will have wait to find out if that happened. Not sure exactly how to describe or quantify it, but it seems that some game titles that use DX11 still have some sort of indirect dependency on DX9 and DX10 functionality, so that may have had some bearing on gaming performance, too. I hope that Windows 10 handles DX9, 10 and 11 titles as well or better than previous Windows versions. If it only does a good job with DX12 titles, that is going to be very bad and may largely negate any benefits realized from DX12. Even if swift adoption takes place among developers, nobody wants the experience with everything else in their Steam and Origin libraries to degraded by Windows 10 and DX12. I still enjoy a number of DX9 and DX10 games.

 

I'm not able to see the graphs at the moment (they don't load in Tapatalk) so just wondering if you tested anything other than 3DMark for CPU performance? Any other CPU benchmarks or (most importantly for me) actual games showing decreases in CPU performance?

 

Yeah, you'd think that the absolute minimum requirement of a new OS was that it wouldn't degrade performance that was previously had in an earlier OS - I mean that's not what you call progress!! We'll see, I'll be testing it out when it launches, and I keep data on my benchmark & game benchmark scores to compare different drivers - so I've got some hard information for a basis of comparison.

 

Check out the table comparing 8 to 10 later today. As far as gaming is concerned, I did 7 benchmarks (synthetic and in-game benchmarks) and Windows 8 was almost 8% better. I did 5 CPU benchmarks and Windows 10 was about a 14% decrease in CPU performance compared to Windows 8. Considering Windows 8 CPU performance is a slight downgrade from Windows 7, the gap between 7 and 10 is even more difficult to swallow.

I expect the 3D graphics performance to be better now than when I did these tests, but I'm not optimistic physics performance is going to match Windows 7. I hope it, at the very least, can match Windows 8. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I will be testing Windoze OS X RTM with hope that everything will have improved to some degree. If it hasn't, it will be another nail in the enthusiast coffin from Micro$haft.

 

TBH, I actually expect OS versions, with added features, to be more CPU and/or even GPU heavy. Seeing a slight performance hit would then be expected. My only issue here is between 8.0, 8.1 and now 10 there is not enough feature set increase to justify a performance hit at all over Windows 7.

 

@TANWare - yup, me too. I have a very low tolerance for any backward movement whatsoever... even a little bit is inexcusable. As @Robbo99999 said, that's "not progress!"

If they offer something to us that they are pitching as being better, it needs to really be better at everything across the board. So far, I have not found a shred of evidence to suggest improvement at anything meaningful, only a reduction in the ability of end users to exercise absolute control of their system.

 

Looking forward to reading your results! Looks like you're doing some really good in depth testing here.

Now I'm wondering; does the same pattern holds true with Intel and AMD GPUs? If not, then maybe NVIDIA's drivers are to blame. Just a thought. I don't have a 7 licence to test.

 

@Cakefish - I don't know. Virtually everything I have is built around NVIDIA now. Even my wife's XPS 15 laptop has NVIDIA discrete (BGA) graphics. Only my M17xR2 has 4870M CF and my youngest son (an adult) has claimed that machine as his own, LOL. He lives 1300 miles away, and that's probably too old to even consider testing GPU performance under Windows 10. I did not do any testing whatsoever with Intel HD graphics, nor do I intend to in the future. I almost never use Intel HD graphics for anything except re-flashing the vBIOS on soft-bricked discrete graphics cards.

 

lame is that i don't see that win 10 notification so i can cancel the reservation.

 

I checked and it's there.

 

Just another thought Guys 'n Gals. This is a combo of with the you will take our updates and like it along with the 30 day key revocation. If the release is on 7/29/2015 as of 8/29/2016 it will become the day they have a locked in user base to do whatever they want too with. No downgrade keys, no way to switch OS's without a painful and drawn out learning curve or go through an expensive downgrade or an expensive upgrade but then the new direction may have already been installed. IMHO the news just gets worse and worse the more I think about it.

 

You, sir, are a marked man.

You may run but you can not hide.

The Upgrade Hordes from Redmond are after you, and there shall be no escaping from them.

You will feel the full rage of their drivers, and watch in terror as the silicone of your GPU melts.

Some of the elders here have spoken about the mythical land of Linux that might provide refuge, but not too many who have crossed that border have returned.

May The Force be with you.

 

that doesn't help at all.

 

C'mon now... sometimes we need to laugh to avoid crying. That last one was just too funny, man.

We're all in the mess together. The evil affects us all no matter whether we embrace or reject it.

 

^^^^^^
This.

A zillion times, on so many different levels.

 

Just because you have a reservation doesn't mean you will be forced to upgrade. You choose when to install. Simply don't install it if you don't want to.

 

139 pages of hate. why not just ignore windows 10 if you dont like it? no-one's forcing you to pay attention to it.

 

Not even close. Maybe 70-80 pages of hate and 60-70 pages of exciting, hopes, calm pragmatic evidences and dissapointment which came before hate.

 

Really? When have an OS you then need to pay attention to its replacement if you plan to continue to own PC's.

 

lol!

 

I just want it to work!

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