Yes, this is the article I had linked to earlier. The one feature I like in particular is the option to use the All Apps view of the Start Screen by default, banning those inane Live Tiles from view. This is an implicit acknowledgment of the bankruptcy of the concept of Live Tiles, which are completely useless to anybody doing anything even remotely resembling productive work on a PC: The point is, you never see what is going on with these wonderful tiles, since you happen to be working in an application on the desktop, or possibly albeit unlikely even using a Metro app. What would have been useful is an enhanced version of the former desktop gadgets, which can have the same, and additional functionality compared to those Lame Tiles. But of course, Microsoft has banned those gadgets from Windows 8. Smooth move... Or rather, a GUI designed by complete idiots, that apparently don't understand the difference between a mobile phone and a desktop computer.
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This is not an abandonment of one concept for another, but giving users the choice between two different concepts instead of using a one-size-fits-all approach. And that's a good thing, right? -
P.S.: What is somewhat amusing is that, apparently, in the next iteration of Blue users will not have the choice of displaying or not displaying the Start Button on the taskbar. They are forced to have the Start Button. And, yes, I am just as opposed to this lack of a choice I would not make than I was to the opposite. -
Despite that, there seems to be a move from less customization options to more in terms of UI with 8.1. -
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TheVerge had a detailed walkthrough of some of the new features. The improved snap in metro will make multitasking much better for tablet users. Win8's snap was better than Android or iOS, but still left something to be desired. Automatically split-screening when clicking on a mail link, and allowing a flexible division between the two windows, should allow you to make the most of a 10" or 11" tablet very effectively.
(Disclaimer: before someone says "but I don't like metro apps and you can multitask even better on the desktop," well then, don't use them. They're a godsend on an 11" touchscreen. Nobody says you have to use them on a 15" laptop or a 27" desktop).
And having your desktop wallpaper underneath the tiles of the start screen, instead of a separate start screen wallpaper, just looks GOOD.
Adding word prediction into the soft keyboard is a big improvement. I'm not expecting SwiftKey levels of goodness, but still, it's a notably lacking feature for touch users.
And I think adding options for boot-to-desktop and for Start to drop you into a customizable all-apps display instead of the Metro main page are both good options for traditional keyboard-and-mouse users.
Bing integration into the Windows search function will be handy, and may give Bing another bit of leverage to try to break Google's near-monopoly of internet search and bring some real competition back into that market.
Windows 8.1 preview: many small tweaks make for a significant update | The Verge -
WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
Yeah,not to be outdone by other sites Microsoft decided to post the Windows 8.1 information themselves
Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1 -
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So yes, they are listening to feedback with Win 8.1. -
So, what was Microsoft's response? Not only did they not listen to these requests, they completely removed the code that would have made these things possible, or at least accessible to third-party developers. In a way they acted like the bully who took the kid's toy away and, when the kid asked for her toy back, not only did the bully not return the toy, but he threw it on the ground, stomped on it and destroyed it, to make sure there was no way for the kid to ever enjoy her toy again.
So, bottom line: Microsoft intentionally, and wantonly disregarded the requests of a significant portion of their user base. The only question that is remaining is, are they listening now? I would argue that no, they're not really listening, but see above. -
I'm not going to rehash the summer of 2012 with you. This thread, and the press release you're complaining about, are about Windows 8.1, not Consumer Preview.
They ARE listening. Not to people who feel Windows 7 is the pinnacle of UI, because Microsoft still sells Windows 7 to those people, but to people who felt that Windows 8 needed improvement. People complained about launching to the live tiles, and relying on them whenever they hit the start key, and the jarring aesthetic change whenever they hit the start key. So Windows 8.1 includes a launch-to-desktop option, an option for the start key to bring up a user-customizable list of programs instead of live tiles, and an option for the start screen to have the desktop wallpaper as a backdrop for visual consistency. So they are listening to feedback...just not the feedback saying "Windows 7 did it just right, go back to exactly like that," because they still sell Windows 7. -
I am sorry for replying. My mistake.
As an aside to the rest of the audience, here is our ever-popular Paul Thurrott's take:
Slightly off-topic here, but still a remarkable admission from a staunch Windows 8 supporter:
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Technically speaking Windows 8 is a good jump forward: USB 3 support, SSD integration, faster boot and more responsive core OS. The only downfall MS did with it is the UI. Even Android went an UI overhaul, changing from 2.3 (Gingerbread) to 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich). However it retained what was already familiar with users, the base classic UI with just modern looks and faster engine. So the transition was smooth and very welcomed. Windows 8 changes A LOT in regards to Windows 7, in the way the PC get used. "You're gonna get the pill down, no matter what, because I say so and because I decide what's good for you!" With that mentality you are asking for trouble. Can't make a product YOU think is good and shove it on consumer's throats. More choise. Continue with the old introducing the new. Not like this: take it and STFU!
I agree with Pirx. I'm getting a new notebook now. First thing I'll do is replace Windows 8 with Windows 7.
Personal opinion: what's the need of those Metro Apps anyway... Improve software startup and that's enough. A PC is not a smartphone that needs Apps.
It's not people resisting change, it's change being forced on them... -
M$ asked for feedback, and was supposedly listening to consumers, before the windows 8 release. I would believe them if they apologized about the first time not listening and more importantly not only asked about improving what they have but brining back what they took! Right now they are just trying to placate those that are on the fence about keeping Win8, the ones that with one or two minor tweaks will get them on board. What also worries me is they are not saying they will still allow those start button apps out already and or any other programs or tweaks!
With the windows 8 treatment of users there is no way anyone can expect the environment with 8.1 has changed one bit. M$ has said nor done anything to prove differently. If anything the purposeful lack of apology or admission of errors proves nothing has changed nor is there a reason to trust or believe M$. To me it is proof positive that the machine is up to its old tricks, and I hope they choke on it too.................................
Edit; Want me to believe them, have them specifically send an invite to all prior beta and RC users, specially too those who now refuse to update, for a checklist of what to improve and what to bring back! That is along with that apology too................. -
Microsoft is never going to say that the UI on all of its devices and operating systems is a failure on anything. It's corporate suicide and a public relations disaster worse than they've got now. Instead, they'll do their best to tweak it and make usability fixes, similar to what they did from Vista to 7 (which both use virtually the same UI). Something it may take them longer to adapt to is that the issues they had in previous Windows failures like ME and Vista (stability, efficiency, and performance) are not problems in Windows 8. The problem is the drastic UI change that makes it hard for most people to use. Their best bet and best option without redesigning the whole thing from scratch would be to use hardware detection to boot and run in desktop mode only when used by a device with keyboard & mouse and boot and run in Metro/Modern only when used by a tablet or smartphone. Whether they're willing to do that, though, is up in the air.
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Desktop mode has been suggested even before the release debacle. As to whether they decide to go that way is still in the air. Maybe boot to desktop option will be similar to that but we still most likely will not get what is truly optimal for a desktop but maybe a slight improvement. As I said they just want to get those to convert that are on the fence, don't expect a mind blowing experience.
Saying you are wrong is not corporate suicide! Look at Coke today, they survived the biggest debacle in marketing history with New Coke. M$ could easily do the same even if this is no where near that bad an issue. Balmer just needs to swallow his words and M$ could have an OS in position to dominate tablet and phone markets from Windows 8 desktop owners wanting integration of their devices..................... -
TANWare, this might interest you. Looks like Stardock is getting closer to bringing their WindowBlinds product back to Windows 8. Once we have that, boot-to-desktop, and a decent Start Menu replacement, Windows 8 will become borderline usable.
Oh glorious days, we're now back to having to assemble our own GUI for Windows, just as in the days of Windows 3.x, when people had to install things like Norton Desktop, or Central Point's PCTools for Windows, etc., to get a usable GUI for Windows.
Of course, the big question is, will all of that stuff still work in Windows 8.1? I have a hunch that the Start Menu replacements we have now will not work in Windows 8.1 (which, remember, at this point is said to sport a Start Button that cannot be disabled). And will Microsoft break our nice GUIs again once we're at Windows 8.2? Are we going to have to get used to fighting Microsoft every step of the way?
P.S.: Here is the blog entry from Brad Wardell, Stardock's CEO. -
I've been waiting on OD thinking it will bring back Aero Glass, hopefully not at a performance penalty compared to Win 7 Aero Glass. Now with that if Gadgets can start to work I would be a lot happier. I had mentioned a while ago that the start button apps, and even OD, may have yet new issues to contend with on 8.1. This is why also I am wondering if 8.1 will be optional on all machines after it's release or mandatory on all new systems.
Things are yet too far up in the air, Ubuntu is looking better and better daily. My one primary hold back is working with Canon RAW files but I am starting to play with GIMP. I also am looking at WINE to be able to run Canon DPP but that is a bit of a stretch at the moment. -
But business 101 tells you to do your feasibility analysis and MS did. There is no reason W8 had to be this messed up. They could have had both interfaces with a less jarring effect but they decided to make it a full non compromising, hide everything, jolting as they could make it. This was totally avoidable and threw out the number one principal that the customer is always right, and they always are MS. Sinofsky starting to talk now about what he did was right and hiding everything etc... and the rest of the mess was a good idea. He's even throwing out the great 100 million number which we all know is bogus. Its unbelievable that a company with so much at stake, can forget the most important element. The customer. That they could allow one single person control major elements of W8 UI with dictatorship like authority. Now he is running around trying to save his legacy. Which is fruitless. Everyone knows he is the main blame. Get over it Sinofsky. But he could care less, he is boasting in his Harvard classes now and probably owns billions in MS stock. But he single handily caused much damage to MS's partner's and stalled windows growth for many quarters. I'd say for a year at the very least before W8.1 reverses the negative momentum.
The most important thing is that MS is now listening. And The UI will continue to evolve until the masses embrace it. Some have switched over to OSX but Apple has never been about listening. They always create the experience surrounded by proprietary HW and accessories. How some think that switching to that when you have MS actively listening and adjusting their main OS to consumer feedback is a bad idea. If anything, Apple should be sweating beats right now because what I see is change on the PC side like no tomorrow.
I admit with all the convertibles and hibred W8 machines I have not seen a single one that puts all the elements together as to regards to weight, SSD size, battery life, ports etc.. But with so many new designs continually being cranked out its only a matter of time a a real game changer will emerge. At which point will be a new start-point for everyone else to copy and evolve once again. All this change has got to worry the heads at Apple. Where their camp is in very small increments of change whereas PC side anything goes.
But back to MS's 8.1 UI. They are back to letting the user decide how they want to customize their setup. For example, you can boot to desktop, they have the start go to an " all apps" screen with the same desktop background. You can take that a step forward and uninstall ALL metro apps and only have the desktop apps with control panel icon etc.. And you can organize those desktop icons. Having a full view of all of them on one page which kind of brings back how it was with XP which was better then seven.
The only problem with all this is it takes a bit of work and tinkering to gut all the metro out. But with the experienced user that can be done. For the average person they may be stuck on the tiled interface with a bunch of blinking moving objects and having a frustrating time finding what they want to do. -
killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.
Aero Glass for Win8 RC2 - MSFN Forum - Page 6 -
Yeah, I had looked at that, but this one's got all sorts of serious issues, down to DWM crashes/lockups. Not ready for prime time yet. On the other hand, they are making good progress, so who knows what they'll be able to do. Oh, and one should not forget that Stardock's stuff is not really known for being particularly bug-free, either...
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killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.
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(1) enable boot-to-desktop, and
(2) change the start button from launching the live tile interface to launching the all-program interface, which in 8.1 is user-organizable.
(3) set the start screen backdrop to the desktop wallpaper instead of a metro wallpaper. -
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Just to be honest, how many people have switched to Mac or Ubuntu because of Metro UI?
I see some, but not enough to get the market dominator worried. Making something noticeably different, even for the sake of making something different, is usually quite good business practice, especially for those enjoying monopolization. They may have played it a bit too hard on this one, but the lose, if any, is affordable. -
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Windows 8 is great, Windows 8.1 will be fantastic.
Also can't wait for Mac OS X 10.9 to be released soon. -
Edit; have all the OEM's offer all machines out the door with a choice of Win 7 or Win 8 with exact same support warrenties and the like and we will go away...............
Edit Again; I agree for touch devices or where a convertible is in tablet mode then touch and modern ui make sence. In desktop mode modern ui (the apps or destop apps launching from there) is no good no matter how much lipstick you put on it! Now in desktop mode there should though still be a way to access those apps incase one day they become needed or the norm. -
So what specific model is it that you want with Windows 7 that you can't get with Windows 7?
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It is their video, make all the excuses you want. They could have addressed any issues they wanted, instead (modern ui) fluf. Even at the end he is "hoping we will try the preview", sounds an aweful lot like beging us to give modern ui a chance. I then repeat, listening my @, desktop users do now want any usage of modern ui even if just as an app launcher. needless to say address real issues and complaints. It does not matter how good the base OS is if the UI stinks.......................
Your argument is get win7 if you don't like win8. Well all systems and companies are not equal so if there is a specific hardware I want and you claim win7 is the answere over win8 for us non touch systems it should not cost more or any less support etc. Under your banter no consumer under any circumstance should he hindered in the decision for any hardware as to Win 7 or Win 8.
Consumers purchasing hardware, pre win8, did so by price, hardware or other factors fitting their needs. Consumers should be able to look at ANY PC and purchase it with Win7 by your argument. The M$ OS should not be a limitation in their purchases. Especailly paying for the OS when they get the machine then paying for another license of Win7 to M$. M$ could then be accused of theft and opens itself to that as well. So long as they force Win8 for desktop use they can't be accused of double dipping, if they said "it is not meant for destops" and it is a forced purchase as it is now on desktops I am sure they would be sued. Not saying a class action could not be brought up as it is now......................
Edit; I am done arguing with those that, and I hate to accuse people, of posting as a shill or troll with totally illogical, or unsupported, statements apparently designed to inflame others. This is last statement is designed to no one specifically but generally. Now make a good argument and I will join back in but I will not rehash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
I'm not saying it's wrong to think that way or anything. -
1.) Media size requirements. On tablets and phones GNU/Linux/Android take up little space compared to windows anything. This closes off a world of hardware to M$. The biggest issue here is that this closed off hardware is where the biggest market growth is.
2.) running resource requirements. Windows has always been more resource hungry in both memory requirements, cpu resources along with more specific to CPU type. The power requirements of all these again limits M$ in that growing market.
Windows 8 is a great attempt at getting into those systems they could not address before. M$ mistake is taking the powerful desktop down that perfomance and/or opperational path. Desktops are not tablets and should not be tried to work as such. It is nice to integrate the touch apps to desktop access.
Now Windows 8 needs further improvement in the resource catagory. You still need more CPU grunt along with ram and media storage just for the OS/GUI. This extrapelates too shorter battery run times and then there is the added expense of hardware to run the OS and then M$'s take as well.
So in the end M$ is fighting along a lot of fronts for Windows 8 just to survive. Without the forced desktop usage it could easily be relegated obsolescence before it gets a chance to thrive. I understand this but it does not make me happy that they are doing this to all my prior happy friends and family who now want a new system. I am even unhappier with consumer deception as it has been, and is still, abundant.................... -
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So what machine do you want that you can't get Windows 7 on? I'll name a comparable model that does offer Windows 7.
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No, there should not have to be a choice of a comparable model from another OEM, the exact model! Warranties, machine hardware even quality and support can vary between OEM's. So as an example I have a Samsung NP700G7C-S01, it has win 7 stock but has been replaced by the S02 (Win8 version). So if someone said I want your PC where do I point them to my Samsung equivalent model with Win 7? Your argument has no merit and this is the last time, especially being off topic, I will respond to it. Take a hint, and if you have no idea what postings here are troll postings (IE: can't wait for OS/X 10.9) then get a clue and while at it find the shill!
On topic I want to see Win8 fixed and successful. I would not be as vocal as I am if I just wanted it to fail........................
Edit; from my general experience and other posters, the majority do agree with me! Even if not as fervently.......... -
I honestly like a lot of the core improvements. Explorer itself is better, task manager is improved, great little improvements everywhere. Then they go and cover it with the wart that is Metro. Why? All they need to do is make boot to desktop an option, with the old start menu also an option. And fixing DPI scaling. That'd be nice.
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DPI scaling in Windows has seemed to always lack. TBH I say this from what I have heard as I almost always run the smallest I can and that has never bothered me. So in the end I think this is more of a Windows fix than just Windows 8. Personally I do not think Metro is a wart, yes it needs work but it is new. I do feel Modern UI does not belong on a desktop unless specifically called and for those Modern UI apps only. It would be nice if 8.1 addressed this but I am not holding my breath..........
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For DPI scaling to really work (instead of blindly resampling pixels) app devs need to get involved, which is not any where near easy on arguably the most backward compatibility safe general-purpose desktop OS. Windows is not Haiku or any CSS-styled G/Lin DE and MS can't be blamed for that.
I do believe they started a bit too little on this issue though. -
I for one love the direction Microsoft has taken. I can understand their decision to have the OS greet you with Metro, but agree that an option to launch straight into desktop should be standard. I spend most of my day on the Desktop anyway - but I really enjoy the simplicity and functionality of the Metro apps, specifically for consuming media. The desktop is great for creation. I like that split.
Windows 8 is in many ways EXACTLY like Windows 7, minus a few small visual and feature differences which I actually like. The OS itself is stable and fast. The simplicity of the design is beautiful. I won't discount the opinion of anybody who doesn't like it, but I personally hope Microsoft stick to their decision - the idea shouldn't be to bring Windows 7 back, the idea should be to improve on the foundation that is Windows 8. They're headed in the right direction, and I'm happy that Microsoft is FINALLY starting to experiment and in some ways trying to innovate. That's what we should be pushing companies to do. If they didn't, they'd go under. -
OMG, people get on topic! We detractors of Win8 get yelled at for this all the time, you proponents need to do the same or we will loose this and other threads as well! as far as 8.1 and Win8 direction it should be Touch for when using a touch device that requires a touch interface and not Win7 back but in desktop mode improvements over the old Win7 desktop, not detractions or removals of features etc. from Win7.................
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Metro tends to feel really bland and basic. It looks so flat, like being drawn on a paper. That's the reason Linux/Android and iOS/OSX tend to catch more eyes that WP8/Windows 8. The flashy UI attracts more (more brain stimulation).
Remove Metro and make it optional insted of bypassing it and leaving it running in background, consuming resources when not needed. My opinion ofcourse and I agree with TANWare on this!
Windows 8 is shoved on one's throat if he's looking for a notebook now. You want Windows 7? Ok get your license for a premium or else be happy with what we give you...it should be the opposite! -
Aero was introduced in Vista. Windows 7 just refined it.
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One thing I would like to see added is the ability to run apps from the desktop in windowed mode. Stardock did a really nice job with ModernMix that allows you to do that. Some of the app scaling is atrocious and ModernMix compensates for that. :thumbsup:
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
Microsoft offering up to $100,000 rewards for finding Windows 8.1 bugs
Microsoft has put a reward out for identifying bugs in the Windows 8.1 Preview in an effort to rid the upcoming release of any particularly nasty flaws that may have gone unnoticed. It's the first time that Microsoft has offered to pay for bug reports — a security measure that competitors like Google and Facebook have been taking for some time now. Microsoft is offering up to $100,000 for what it's calling "truly novel exploitation techniques," as well as smaller rewards for "critical vulnerabilities" in Internet Explorer 11 Preview and for methods that could defend against major exploits identified by the first bounty.
Microsoft offering up to $100,000 rewards for finding Windows 8.1 bugs | The Verge
Windows 8.1(Blue)Free Update
Discussion in 'Windows OS and Software' started by WhatsThePoint, May 14, 2013.