Would bringing back the Start Menu fix almost all Windows 8 complaints?

I guess my point was the Surface tablet with Office RT (Preview?) already comes with Word and Excel, so why can't businesses use it? Instead, like the examples you gave of business-oriented tablets, it requires you to purchase, at an additional cost, an Office 2013 license.
Why restrict the license of the software that comes with it to a particular niche?

$800+ for an Atom-based tablet plus minimum $200 more for H&B 2010 makes for an expensive, underwhelming tablet, IMHO.

Apart from the licensing, assuming someone wanted to use the Excel and Word anyways, how functional is it compared to it's desktop 2007/2010 counterparts?

 

I don't know, but I don't think this is the only software license that's explicitly consumer-only as opposed to a business license. Doesn't Office Home & Student have the same provision?

EDIT: It does. No, Microsoft Office Home and Student cannot be used in a business - Microsoft SMS&P Partner Community Blog - By Eric Ligman - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

Office RT has similar features to, and similar license provisions to, Office Home & Student. This isn't something new that they cooked up just for Office RT.

By the way, with the installation of a day one patch, it's not a "Preview" anymore, it's just Office RT.

Good thing those business-oriented Clover Trail tablets sell for $650ish with 64 gb of storage (priced directly against less-business-friendly Windows RT tablets with comparable storage), not $800.

Lenovo's ThinkPad Tablet 2 to be priced starting at $629 | PCWorld

Dell Latitude 10 Windows 8 tablet goes up for order for $649 - Liliputing

And businesses have group licenses for software--they'll put on whatever they need instead of buying licenses by the device.

As The Verge said, it's basically the same. This isn't a metro-environment word processor and spreadsheet like Office for Windows Phone. It's the full desktop software without macros.

 

Yeah, MS could have made the included Office 2013 RT a full commercial license ( which is final, not preview). Wouldn't have made a difference for consumers (many of which purchase Office Home & Student anyway), but I suppose businesses could have cut costs there (meaning lost profits for MS). Business probably isn't the target for the ARM-based Surface RT, though. It's too much of a jump for most businesses to leave x86 and the compatibility it had.

And neither the Surface nor the Surface Pro are Atom-based, so I'm not sure where you got that. The Surface is Nvidia Tegra 3-based (ARM), whereas the Surface Pro will be using a Core i5.

The interface for Office 2013 RT is the same as the desktop interface. On the plus side, it's very much the same experience with the same compatibility, minus macros. On the down side, it's the same experience, and MS hasn't made compelling touch-friendly changes.

 

You're preaching to the Pope, as they say. My career for the past 26 years has been in the computer field, and the past 13 years managing small business IT needs with my own company.
My comment was more of a surprise that MS would take a product that obviously needs to penetrate the consumer and business market to get their "RT" and "8" brand out there, and cripple the licensing so that legally, only a certain slice of the market can use it.
Fortunately, I can legally check my "corporate" email with my iPhone, iPad, and Android-based tablet. (at least I think I'm not breaking any laws by doing so).

Good to know. Thanks.

If there is one philosophy I try to stand by with regards to computers, it's never buy the base model. So while "$650ish" does get you out the door (plus $50 in sales tax, so really $700), it's really be the $749 model of the Lat 10, then plus tax, so $800.

Some do, most don't. Group licenses aren't free. They still (legally) cost per user or device.

Good to know, too. Thanks.

 

I was referring to the list of RT tablets that Mitlov listed, and in particular, the Dell Lat 10, because I am a Dell Reseller and pretty much only resell Dell. To be honest, I have no idea how much the Surface RT even costs.

 

My Duo 11 is a base model and it's great. Unless there's an something specific you can point to that you want that you're not getting by buying the base model, I say buy the base model.

I wouldn't buy a Clover Trail tablet with 32 gb of storage, so if that was the case, I wouldn't buy the base model...but the base model Latitude 10 comes with 64 gb. You can't improve the RAM or processor or screen either by going with a more expensive model. So why NOT buy the $649 model? Here are its specs ($699 with a $50 coupon code):

The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

As for sales tax: Oregon, dude. The weather is great (at least in central or southern Oregon, not Portland), the microbreweries are unbeatable, and sales tax? There isn't one. And assuming you're not going to move to the fantastic Pacific Northwest, sales tax applies equally to all devices, so saying you shouldn't buy a Clover Trail tablet because the sales tax adds another $50 to its price tag doesn't make sense...you'll also be facing that sales tax on a Windows RT device, on an iPad, etc.

The Surface RT starts at $499 with 32 gb of storage. The only way to get 64 gb of storage is to buy one with a bundled keyboard cover for a total cost of $699. So your Surface RT device isn't appreciably cheaper than a Latitude 10, but it can't run legacy x86 Windows software unlike the Latitude 10. Anyone thinking about the Surface RT instead of the Latitude 10 for business should be slapped upside the head.

That's why I don't think it's a big deal that Office RT has the Office Home and Student "consumer only" license. Because Windows RT was never meant for business and there are far better-for-business Windows 8 (x86) devices.

 

Petaluma, California. The best thing going in my fridge for the last few months.

 

All right, it's on

 

Since this nothing to do with Windows 8, I fear we're going to get in trouble. Let's move this to a new thread "What I drink when Windows 8 drives me to drink."

p.s. 5.4%? :laugh:

 

I drink for the flavor, not to get drunk. That's because Windows 8 makes me a happy guy

 

Now, THAT^ is frickin' funny.

 

Personally my main problem with Windows 8 at the moment is the lack of Aero and the rest of the (easy) customization, there was nothing wrong with Aero for me (outside of the rounded corners on windows). How it looked in the preview was perfect personally

As far as the lack of start menu and the other changes... they're not that big of a deal really, I've already adapted.

 

I love the "tile" menu...my only problem is the fact that it really is two operating systems in one. I guess that's really the only way it could be done and there's no real solution to that, but it's still not ideal.

 

Using both at once 50/50 can get tricky, but I find depending on the task, I'm using either 99% start screen or 99% desktop. Either way is just fine...it's no different than someone who uses an iPad for recreation and a MBP for work, only it's all in one physical device.

 

Except in your example, when you want to just use your MBP, you don't have to get to it through your iPad.

 

One click on the "desktop" tile as part of my startup routine. One click. That's it.

 

Bringing back Win 7 Start Menu, Aero, and making Metro optional in the Desktop version would quiet a great deal of critics (including me). But, I just don't see that happening

 

^+1. While Metro seems like a potential tablet/phone/touchscreen...-goldmine for MS, a touch centered GUI doesn't work on a desktop with >24" non-touch screens in my case.
An on/on-demand/off Metro switch (and Start) would make all the difference. But indeed, not likely to happen. Win7-64 will be my new XP.

 

I installed classic shell and boot directly to the desktop. I barely go to metro anymore and honestly everything works fine.

 

windows 8=windows 7 with a crappy metro= no thanks, i will stay with seven

 

Maybe with Steve Sinofsky head of Windows leaving, Microsoft will bring the start button back.

Windows Leadership Changes | Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows
Windows Leadership Changes (Part 2) | Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows

 

The search function is very on point in Win 8. Hitting the Windows + F brings forth a search bar, and from this search bar everything, I mean everything, on the computer or in an installed App can be searched. Earlier today I was curious about biscuits. I typed in biscuits and clicked on the All Recipe App and thousands of recipes popped up. For normal start menu functions all a person needs to do is type in the keyword. It doesn't matter if it's bluetooth or control panel or excel, the search results are immediate. I find my experience with Win 8 to be much faster and smoother than with Win 7 and the old start menu.

 

You know you can search the same way in Windows 7 right? Just Win key and type and it will find all the apps instantly. Win+F will search the system for files with those keywords in an explorer like window. I just find it comical that pretty much everything that you can do in Windows 7, heck all the way back to XP even, people are now stating as "new" and "improved" for Windows 8. They just happened to find it now for some reason.

 

Agree. For me in Windows 7, one click on Google Chrome icon in taskbar brings up my browser and Google.com is my start page. I type BISCUIT RECIPE and I get 2,860,000 results in 0.17 seconds. All the recipes I need. I just don't understand the benefit of doing it the Windows 8 way, or the reason for needing a new way.
I'm not knocking it, but I don't understand the excitement about doing the same thing in Windows 8. Plus, when I'm searching for something I want to choose whether my search is for the internet or my computer. When searching, for example, BISCUITS, and looking for recipes, I don't want every file on my computer with that word coming up in my results. For me, searching everything is not good.

I was reading another article on PCWORLD this morning with help on fixing some of the irritations in Windows 8.
In the comments section, I read a post by someone called npco543 that pretty much sums up my opinion on Windows 8. He says:

"There's change for improvement, and there's change for the sake of change which is often the opposite of improvement. There have been numerous changes in 8 that are neither intuitive nor optimal, and very often go against decades of how we've come to use computers. By voicing complaints about obviously non-optimal changes, Microsoft might poke their heads outside the bubble of yes-men that they've surrounded themselves by. Some of the changes are incredibly ill conceived, and it says something about the feedback they either were given, or that got ignored, that these things made it to production."

Couldn't agree more.

Also, I'm using StartIsBack. It works well for me, skips the Start Page on startup and the Start Menu is just like Windows 7.

 

I have used search all the way back to XP. I am just saying that I find search better in Win 8. I have no empirical evidence to support my feeling. It is a simple opinion.

 

Likewise. I used search in Win7; I just find Win8's search better.

 

Is Windows 8 search results from the internet come via Bing and if so, can you configure Windows 8 to use another search provider?

 

The issue is not really having to configure Win 8 to search anything specific. Win + Q calls up the search bar. Anything can be typed into the search bar. If there is a file or a setting relevant to the search request it will bring them up, but if the search is for bing or chrome or any other app, that app can be used by just clicking on it after having typed whatever phrase in the search bar. so if you want to use chrome instead of bing, or even dictionary.com instead of chrome, you can do that.