Yeah, Windows 8's on fire...

See our ever-popular Paul Thurrott:

Looks like people despise Windows 8 even more than they did the much-maligned Vista. Incidentally, when I was visiting out local Frys this weekend, I was surprised to see the significant numbers of Windows 7 laptops and desktops they still had on display. Sure, they had a lot more Windows 8 machines, but at this point in the game, and at a place like Frys, I would not have expected to find any Windows 7 systems at all. Well, the writing's at the wall, and it becomes clearer by the day...

 

Wait a second, are you trying to tell me that cramming a product that nobody wanted down customers' throats backfired on Microsoft? Unpossible!

 

i personally would have loved to see win7/metro....now that could have worked. Maybe also fix the BS options in win7 while your at it like no double click on network icon to get to network status or giving sorting options in control panel again @$#^@#$^@$^@$^^@$ I had how you can't do a standard list in control panel

 

They have that: it's called Windows 8.

I'm not sure how appropriately MS is responding to the trend (and I'm not hijacking Pirx's thread), but perhaps a good many things will be remedied with the hush-hush Windows 8 Blue.

Windows Blue is Windows 8 SP1 with IE 11 and more | MyCE.com

 

Well, the statement " From what can be gathered from the Chinese forum, there have not been much changes in the Metro interface which means that Microsoft seems to be confident about the new Windows UI that was introduced in Windows 8." in that article does not bode well. My guess is they're digging in their heels even more, just like they have done since the preview days of Win8. Too bad.

 

Well it was a dig in the heels at RTM not preview days. It was right towards the end of the preview the writing was put up on the wall. Marketing decisions such as these are done well in advance. M$ waited till the last minute to release this to the beta testers, do you think we would have been so willing to help them if we knew Windows was to be hijacked in the manner is has been?

M$ is in for the long haul. The only way to reverse this is for people just not to buy into Windows 8. Start using other OS's so that M$ looses their internal and outside developer sources. If all of a sudden some, let say OSX, office suite started becoming the defacto standard you will see M$ rally to action. In essence we will need to see Windows 8 start to effect their other core software offerings before they change.

So M$ has a vision. they have decided to drag us all, kicking and screaming, to it. They feel that M$ is big enough to take our marketing power away from us and that we are insignificant. What say you all!

Edit; For Irony these are from a "BING" search..........

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/380335/windows-8-struggling-to-gain-market-share
http://blogs.cio.com/operating-systems/17847/windows-8-cant-shake-market-share-blues

 

I say that, if there's no indication of Microsoft reversing course on this idiocy, I am going to walk away from them. I have started looking into what that would entail, and it turns out I don't really need them for what I am going to be doing a few years out. Until then, Windows 7 will serve me just fine. I suspect the same is true for many. We don't need Microsoft, but they need us. Alienating your customers is never a good idea, and in this case it was the height of stupidity.

 

But aren't we the consumer driving this? Tablet sales are crushing PC sales and Windows 8 is designed for a tablet. They decided not to have two OS systems, so this is what the consumer wants and it's what we got.

 

Ahh, but there's just this tiny little gap in your logic here: Nobody has asked for this duct tape and bale wire construction of bolting a tablet OS to a desktop OS. "They" decided not to have two OS', or even simply provide an option during system setup to allow us to choose whether or not we want a tablet interface. "They" decided to force all of us, on any PC hardware, touch-enabled or not, to suffer through their half-baked tablet GUI. It quite appears that this is not what "the consumer" wants.

 

It's not as if I do not see your point, just that my comment supersedes yours, or that MS sees it that way. And I agree, it's not what the PC user wants. Windows 9 will be an enhanced version without the metro UI or apps I do believe.

 

Actually it does not. While hardware sales of tablets may out do pc hardware sales the existing base of PC's out there are OS upgradable. Where tablets are more of a disposable device to get a new OS. That is even if you are just trading the old tablet in or selling it etc. Now if you are talking Windows 8 RT then I see your point but that is not the discussion here regarding alienating their existing PC users and its acceptance as an OS over prior versions.

Edit; some news.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...er_discounts_Windows_8_to_OEMs_to_spark_sales
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57572793-92/asus-windows-8-adoption-levels-still-not-good/
http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/tablets-windows-8-caused-2012-pc-sales-dip-idc/146831
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/03/05/windows-8-sales-grind-to-a-halt.aspx

 

I use Windows 8 on a daily basis. I use it on my laptop I take to work, and on my gaming desktop. I don't have any major complaints. The dual screen interface needs some tweaking, particularly for ModernUI/Desktop mix stuff. But all my apps run fine, no major adjustments to my workflow, no 3rd party Start menu, nada. I even use some of the free Windows 8 Store stuff.

The ModernUI Mail app is pretty cringe-worthy for work, just waiting for Google to get Outlook sync to work with Outlook 2013 then I'll be using that.

 

I'd love for your prediction to come true, but somehow I just don't see it happening...

 

That's nice. Lots of people liked Vista, too. A lot fewer people, relatively speaking, like Windows 8, but no doubt there's many thousands just like you. Nothing at all wrong with that. In the big picture, however, it still means that Windows 8 is shaping up as a major disaster.

Same here. I don't have much hope of Microsoft even doing simple tweaks, like giving us the Start Menu back, allowing booting to the desktop, or putting Aero Glass back in. I think the chances of them dumping "Metro" are somewhere between zero and zilch, as much as I would love to see that...

 

According to the numbers provided here, after a small drop in January, Windows 7 resumed gaining market share.

 

Lol. The unfortunate thing with 8 is that it's an improvement in many regards just as Vista was over XP, but not in it's interface and user-friendliness. I don't understand why MS doesn't simply take a successful OS - such as XP or 7 - and design it to be scalable for the long haul. Mac OS X has been successful in this regard and has received adulation since it's official introduction in 2001.

 

Pirx: Can't you just use W7?

 

Oh yes, I can, and certainly will do that, possibly until support runs out (2020). By that time, who knows what my requirements will be, and who knows what is being offered, both software and hardware.

See, the main issue is a somewhat obscure one that few people in here understand: The one thing that most businesses, and professionals, hate more than almost anything else is uncertainty. Part of the success of Microsoft was exactly that they (in contrast to, say, Apple) stood for certainty: You could count on your particular computational ecosystem remaining viable across operating system generations. This was true almost to a fault, with people demanding, and Microsoft obliging, that they be able to even run their DOS stuff from the 1980s on the newest OS. All of this has changed radically now: Not only are people forced to adapt to a new GUI, what is worse, and a lot more destructive, is the noises coming out of Microsoft (and some of their sycophants, such as Thurrott) about Microsoft moving to deprecate, and ultimately abandoning the Windows desktop. There's plenty of instances where you see them referring to desktop applications as "legacy applications", for example. I am not sure how many people really understand how devastating such talk really is: If I, as a business, am being told that in a few years none of my applications will be supported on a Microsoft OS anymore, I will not wait for that time to arrive. I will look for alternatives now. This effect by itself can eventually destroy Microsoft's position as the leader in software for business systems. Like I said, the writing is on the wall.

 

Don't you ever get tired complaining about W8? Don't get me wrong, your arguments are valid, even tho I personally like W8 (it's not perfect).
I'm just saying that hundreds of posts later you must said everything you have to say, what keeps you going? Don't you realize how time consuming it is?

If you see Windows as a dead end in your business, why not let it go and use some other OS?

I'm not here to change your point of view, nor to mock you. I'm not like dapervemen.. You're of course free to post as much as you want here just like anyone else.

 

Problem with looking at numbers on new PC sales and W8 sales is that it doesn't account for an underlying trend: PC sales are slowing, for two reasons:

1.- Modern PCs from the last two or three years already do what 95%+ of people need; they don't need additional CPU power or GPU power.
2.- Tablets are becoming the primary mobile device of choice, replacing laptops in the classroom (and to an extent, in some businesses): I see just as many people taking notes in lecture on an iPad + BT keyboard now as I do on laptops.

W8 was facing an uphill battle from the start, and if it had caused PC sales to pick up, I'd be pretty surprised. On the other hand, I have seen many more students with new touchscreen laptops (convertible and not), and actually, people generally like it.

If it hadn't, I'd be surprised. Businesses are still in the process of replacing XP machines with W7, and they'll skip a version (as always) with W8. UCLA Medical Center has just been rolling out W7 to more of its computers (although annoyingly enough, they're still dragging their feet updating one of the XP machines in the lab...).

 

Some statistics may be inaccurate, but interesting trends nonetheless: Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The quoted statement mirrors my own experiences in an entirely different industry, a *huge* one at that.

One piece of puzzle that hasn't been brought up to the table yet is the following: from a historical standpoint, W7 was the first MS OS that had been more or less dead-stable "out of the box" since the days of W2K, and that is a *major* point of attraction for anyone attempting to run a serious business regardless of its size.

 

I'll be on the lookout as to whether my uni upgrades to Windows 8, they usually upgrade at most a year after a new OS comes out. We got Windows 7 in the summer of 2010 for example.

 

I have to say that W7 was even better than 2000 RTM, the latter wasn't as usable out of the box, it had driver issues etc, but people are forgetting how fast the first Service Pack emerged.

W7 RTM is still awesome, even without the Service Pack, three years later. Now that's never happened before.

 

As much as I would love to join in the kicking of microsoft while they are down, I fear there may be repercussions to this that we haven't yet quantified. Ill start by saying I don't like Win 8 after having used it on a friends machine and one at work, and that I prefer W7. I also think it was foolish to force a UI designed for touch input on non-touch input devices. With that being said....

When was the last time Microsoft attempted to try something completely new and different from what they have always done? W8 is an ambitious departure from the typical MS modus operandi, and I fear that if it flops (which i believe it will) it may actually stifle MS in terms of innovation. After, MS is beholden to its shareholders, and if a brand new OS flops, it becomes less likely they will sink R&D funds into such ambitious projects in the future. Just my 2 cents.

 

Well, if W8 is to be perceived as "shapes of things to come" out of such ambitious projects, I do hope that they stop sinking money into R&D....:yes:

 

Ahahaha yes, I don't want to see tablet interfaces as an OS in the future either, but I think you see what I am getting at. To look at an example on the other end of the success spectrum, look at the kinect (or in fact, the original xbox). A radically different piece of hardware that was outside the normal conventions. Again, not my particular cup of tea, but I do like to see companies innovate and push the boundaries (even the big evil ones like MS). My fear is if this is perceived to be such a critical failure, MS will go back to just being....well, Microsoft.

 

Wouldn't that be *exactly* what we should be praying for? Personally, I liked the "old" MS much better...

Take it as a sign of me growing old (I don't really care, set up to retire a year after the support for W7 ends) but I'm getting a little tired of folks re-inventing the wheel lately as in:

a) Lenovo ditching the traditional ThinkPad keyboard layout after two decades. Great. Now I have to learn to type all over again.

b) Linux Mint getting rid of Gnome and investing itself into Mate/Cinnamon. OK, back to Fedora I went, after five years or so of using almost nothing but Mint as an "alternate" OS.

c) MS coming out with W8 and crushing any optimism that W7 had installed in me in the respect of "them" finally creating an OS that is worth supporting on all levels: enterprise, small business and home...

Off my chair and on to continue the walk through Hyde Park...

 

Since you brought this up, I remembered an article I came across on engadget: Samsung Electronics exec blames Windows 8 for the decline of the PC

 

Cliffs if you please?

 

Last semester, I had a professor pull out her sandy latitude(recognize by the i7 sticker and orange keyboard/general revamp; pretty sure it is lease/loan from school IT) for presentation, it is running XP..

 

Indeed, Engadget took the statement out of context. A much better analysis from The Verge:

The bolded part is more than likely the actual meaning of the comment when considered in context, and makes sense as I suggested earlier.

 

My Sony Vaio S15 qualified for the $14.99 W8 Pro upgrade... After a lot of wrestling with the upgrade idea I decided to stay with W7 and let the upgrade offer expire... I don't have a touch screen on my laptop and quite frankly I can't see having a touch screen on a regular laptop and having to clean smudges and fingerprints all the times... I agree with what others have already posted, you can't force the same UI for tablets and laptops/desktops and expect everyone to be happy...

 

I hated letting the $15 deal expire but the OS just does not suit me as is. If it would have been released functioning as the RC I would have gladly paid full price for the upgrade, at $15 it would have been ordered same day as available without a second thought.

 

Here's ZDnet's Steven Vaughan-Nichols take on the failure:

Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed | ZDNet

 

Apparently the thought they were Apple.

A more compelling question should be is it better? In my case, the answer would be no. Recall that W7 was significantly better and more stable than Windows Vista. However, W8 doesn't make any of my computing needs any easier--it's just different. Not really a compelling reason to upgrade is it?

A miscalculation they will live to regret. You cannot put a square peg into a round hole. There's a reason why fuel companies offer three grades of gasoline. There's just too many kinds of cars/uses to settle on just one.

Heck, it was only $14.99 so I bit. Otherwise, it would have stayed on the shelf, and certainly been a let down if you paid the full retail price. If it means anything to you, you're not missing anything.

 

Thought that I'd drop by and post a relevant video.

<iframe width='560' height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WTYet-qf1jo" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

To you, maybe not. Win8's big "thing" is the ModernUI side, and I've been making actual efforts to use ModernUI apps. If it's not a paradigm that suits you, that's fine.

I'm not sure what people really wanted. The upgrade was $15-$40. For this, the interface was overhauled, an entirely new interface bolted on, and all the little OS tweaks and updates got wedged in. People complain. I imagine in the Evil Star Trek Universe MS released a very subdued Windows 8 with very little change, the traditional Start button, and kept the shiny Aero theme and whatever, released it for $15-$40, and... people complain. "But they hardly chaaaaaanged anything!!!"

 

Very funny. Wait, are you serious here? God almighty, there are practically no serious ModernUI apps available at all! The stuff that comes with Windows 8 is universally rated as borderline useless, and there is certainly nothing, zero, available at the level of functionality of standard Windows applications.

That paradigm suits exactly nobody, with the exception of the tiny number of people who use a Windows tablet, where the ModernUI apps are better than nothing, in a few cases.

Really? Haven't paid attention much, then, have we? Here, I'll spell it out for you: What people wanted was an update of Windows 7. Nobody, but absolutely nobody has asked for a ModernUI interface.

"Overhauled" interface? You are the funny guy here, that much is true. Unless in your language "overhauled" means "castrated". Yes, there were little OS tweaks and updates, but if we take away the things that are already available in Windows 7, next to nothing remains: Updated Task Manager (big whoopee, how often do you really need that one?), ribbon in Explorer (I hear some people don't like it...), storage spaces (wanna bet what the percentage is of people actually going to use this feature?).

 

It is well known there are the Windows 8 fan boys left. I was actually at one point in development one of them myself. It is proving now, as time passes, these users are the minority.

I had another 10 paragraph rant on the looser OS but I digress. It is all well known and no need to rehash about the obvious...............

 

The video couldn't have said it any better... lmao.... MAJOR FAIL...... W8....

 

LOL he's making things up just to point out what's bad with W8, which isn't really needed.
- The Control Panel has been hidden on the Desktop since XP, at least.
- He says he knows DOS, but seem to be unaware of Alt F4.
- He never even tried searching from the Start menu.
- F1, anyone?

On the other hand, that swiping thing (5:00) was news to me, making it seem less usable for touchscreens . That's more of an issue than anything else on W8.
Luckily for me I don't use a touchscreen, just a regular U2412M.

The least useable part of W8 must be the Charms Bar, it's easy to disable tho.
I never used the W7 Start menu much, so I don't miss it now, the Taskbar is all I need (never understood the need for Windows users to keep it as empty as possible, maybe I'm a Mac.. ). I never use Metro apps, and I don't miss W7.
But that's just me, I can certainly see why others hate W8.

 

i'd be embarrassed to empathize with this guy. sad too cause he seems like a savvy enough user. and i'd love to see the analytics for that video. half a million views, < 30 seconds per view on average.

(thanks for the share, jarhead.)

 

While I'd agree the author of the video went a bit over board I can see his points. The bad is up to the RTM his points were mostly invalid. It should be more to the point of why would M$ take an OS that was well on its way to improving itself as a PC OS and cripple it in the way they did? Also why would they refuse to implement the simple fix's needed to make it a smooth transition from windows 7 to windows 8 for standard PC's?

Windows 8 as it stands is becoming an epic, and I mean truly EPIC, fail for them. M$ doesn't realize by alienating present PC users they are alienating the same consumers likely to purchase tablets and or phones. a few simple lines of code letting users have the proper desktop OS will then start getting those users into seeing and maybe using some metro apps and maybe eventually wanting those apps in a more mobile device.

Instead of attracting consumers M$ has decided to force its current user base to windows 8 and metro. While presently I am against Windows 8 for obvious reasons if they would have left the desktop alone and made it more reasonable to access metro as a secondary UI I probably would have looked into some of metro for consumption usage. M$ should have let us ease into metro use and let metro find its niche in apps etc. In this manner Windows RT and tablet PC's hardware would be developed to follow the markets needs.

I can see where prior mobile marketing failures scares M$ and why they have tried this marketing mania. They have to give it up, admit they were wrong and most importantly FIX IT! This before it is too late, if it isn't already. I say this as if it were totally fixed tomorrow who is to say M$ will not decide a day or so after to update it to the way it is today? Users may just loose trust in Redmond.........................

 

if you're still calling it metro you have no idea what you're talking about. think about it.

 

That all you got? Windows 8 talking points well running a bit dry now, isn't it?

 

Wow, so insightful. BTW I don't call it "Modern UI" as even though it is a moniker there is nothing modern about it!

 

Made up or not he at least is doing something and giving results or which I have yet to see others do. That's his experience and his tests no if you don't point out the bad points no one will fix the problem that is a Fact of life.

Really hidden? Could you elaborate on that?

I think he is aware of it he is talking the regular users whom like to turn on and start using the computer not have to remember so many commands to do one thing. Windows was to simplify the task needed to do a command.

Windows 8 doesn't have a "Start" button... FYI.....M$ removed it and you have to let it sit on the lower left corner for it to come up and one shouldn't have to wait and wait for the button to show up.

Not every computer users will remember that key and why should one have to call for F1-Help when it should be a communicative O/S like he said simplicity for a vast majority aren't tweakers they like to get up and running.

Swiping doesn't work on Desktop or laptop that aren't touchscreen swiping or not...

That part is news to me Charms Bar what the freaking is that for.....that just adds more confusion then helping the user it causing more headache instead.

Really you don't use the W7 start menu...that is your opinion but there is limited space on taskbar can be so populated there that to many icons doesn't help either. Start button or Menu has a history regardless of how much you like to minimize the reason behind it.

 

Pretty much agree with you there. At least he did try to use the OS during that time period. Hell, the video guy even gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt that W8 is faster than W7 (which I've personality yet to see).

Tried the W8 RTM last year and the thing was pretty... bad. Felt the same about the OS as he did, though he does a better job putting it into words than I would have. Microsoft could have done pretty well with 8 as they had for most of their releases (hell, even Vista still has twice the number of users today than 8...). I don't hate "Metro" or whatever it's called today, I really don't. I have the same sort of thing on my WP7.5 smartphone and you'd have to pry it from my cold, dead hands before taking that away from me (unfortunately, I can't upgrade to WP8 for some stupid reason). But 8 needed some frame of reference very, very badly. Maybe a *real* Start button would be a good start, but effective labeling would be great as well.

Even though quite a few people have this odd wet dream that tablets and smartphones will take over the computing world, you can't just neglect the fact that desktops (and traditional laptops, I bet) are here to stay. Someone needs to create the content, and it sure as hell isn't going to be tablet/smartphone users in any statistically significant portion. You simply cannot assume that all devices will behave like a tablet, otherwise you get the fart goblin problem described in the video.

Personally, I haven't found a compelling case as to why I should "upgrade" to Window 8 (not a typo). Useability issues aside (let's just assume we all get use to this Metro idea on desktops), how does this help someone like us do our work? I'm sure that for CompSci stuff, full-screen only and a tacked-on Desktop mode are a PITA. The Taskbar already acts as an icon dock, so what good are the tiles, other than taking up background space? I don't see any benefit Windows 8 brings to the gaming world either. If you ask me, W8 is about as useful as iOS or Android: pretty good for their specialized job (content consumption only), but tacking on accessories won't make it a real work machine.

And I'd imagine my mom would laugh at me if I had to explain to her that there's such a thing as a "Charms" bar. That's something I'd honestly expect from one of these things:



Just my two cents. Everyone has their opinions.

 

My point is, he doesn't HAVE to, he can find annoyances without doing it.

After a clean istall of XP, Vista, W7 or W8 you can only see the Trash can on the desktop, the other icons are hidden but can be changed in the settings.
The third pic shows the default settings:
How to change your Windows desktop icons

He's talking about his own experience. Sure, there are loads of people who doesn't know any key combinations, he's obviously not one of them.

I never mentioned the button.

I'm still talking about him. Dunno why Windows users take a pride in not using the help.

That makes no sense as a reply, the FACT that I don't have a touchscreen is was makes me lucky here...

You missed the word -much-, I'm telling my experience just as the guy in the video does. You don't seem to get the personal aspect here. 40 programs is enough for me, but I know it's not nowhere enough for some. I can still use the Start and fill up with even more the day I need it, but for everyday use the taskbar is more than enough.
I've already said that I can understand why people hate W8.

There are different ways to use Windows, I'm just telling how I use it:

- Set the taskbar never combine, the taskbar buttons to small, and width to 38 Taskbar - Change Icon Button Width Size - Windows 7 Help Forums
- Put all regularly used programs in the taskbar, even the control panel icon for instance, more convenient than having it a menu away (FOR ME).
- Install Skip Metro suite with everything enabled except drag-to close, I have no use for the corner functions anyway.

The other two, more common ways to use Windows is either just as MS wants you to, or add a third party Start menu.


I use the Start page maybe less than once a week on average, just as rarely as when I used W7. No need for a start button, I used the Windows key for years.
Sure, I realize that this is not the most common way to use Windows, but it works for me, and it works really good. I got W8 for free and wouldn't pay for it. W7 is great.

My point is, if you rely on the Start menu in Windows, like most people do, you're likely going to hate W8. I don't use the Start menu.

YMMW.