Yeah, Windows 8's on fire...

That backlash exists. Anecdotally, I was in fact considering a Windows Phone for a while, until I saw what was going on with Windows 8. Windows Phone is not an option for me anymore.

On Windows RT, the one facet of the situation there that has not been discussed in this thread is the following: The reason why Windows RT is dead is not so much the platform itself. It's the apps, stupid! Apps are really almost all that matters for these devices. Now, Microsoft had based their strategy in this area on the assumption that their App Store would take off, and that a sufficient number of apps would be offered to make Windows RT a viable proposition. Needless to say, that strategy has not panned out, and it failed in no small part due to the overwhelming unpopularity of Microsoft's strong-arming tactics with Windows 8. At this point in time, the Microsoft App Store is in pathetic shape, with the vast majority of apps useless garbage, and a large number of important apps that people know from the Apple and Google stores not available. More distressingly, the growth of apps in their store has in fact started to slow (also see here). In this situation, and given the strong nonlinearity of such markets, Windows RT (and Windows Phone, by the way) are simply doomed, and Microsoft clinging to a ModernUI interface for which there are no compelling apps available makes no sense. I'll notice in passing that part of the reason for the non-existing interest in ModernUI apps is the 1.0-nature of the API itself, that is clearly immature, and severely lacking in functionality.

 

The other possibility is that Windows 8 is built on assumption that touchscreens are going to be the Next Big Thing. The Chromebook Pixel's touchscreen suggests there might be something to this.

Kind of like, a few years ago, how Apple assumed that the trackpad was going to supersede the mouse as a pointing device and built OSX around multi-finger trackpad gestures.

 

Well...a dispassionate look at the App stores of Apple and Google also show that a large percentage of the apps therein are also utter garbage. This, however, does not mean that the MS app store is well populated with what you refer to as "important apps that people know:. As of now, it is not.

 

They could have done the same thing, well much better imho, just by making MetroUI optional. If someone had a touchscreen, or liked it, or wanted to see what it was all about, they would have that option. But the way they implemented it, it forces something on users that they don't want. Third party Start menus are asinine. I like that you could customize it in Win 7 and previously through third party, but at least a fairly configurable one existed. I could drive through my start menu with my keyboard more effectively with a mouse. Now that is not a viable solution either. I don't know why they are so stubborn to not just pony up and implement a start menu, and make MetroUI optional.

 

Something I've observed in observing and participating in one of the more popular Mac forums is that a lot of the Boot Camping crowd is loving Windows 8. I would think they would be even more staunchly against it, but it's quite the opposite.

 

Wait, so Mac people love Windows 8 on their laptops? Or is it just easier to Boot Camp Windows 8 (compared to 7 and earlier)?

 

The former, strangely enough. Only within the last week did Apple update the Boot Camp Assistant program to fully support W8, along with providing compatible drivers for it (and a long overdue update for W7). Check out some of the feedback here. Perplexing, I must say.

 

Yeah, that is pretty weird, especially considering that W8 is better for touch displays and none of Apple's laptop have those. Though for some reason, I can't load that link :/.

 

Some of the quotes from that thread:

Now four examples do not a consensus make, but I would never have guessed in a million years that I would be hearing such sentiments from Mac users about a Microsoft OS.

 

Wow, that's impressive to see anything positive about Microsoft from MacRumors (disclosure: I don't go to that website often, if at all).

I'm gonna guess that Apple doesn't care though; they're a hardware company that makes an OS on the side imo. Though I'm surprised that these people like "Metro" over the default OSX UI. I'd feel the opposite: I'd rather have OSX than Windows 8, even if it means that I would have to buy Apple hardware. Though I'm ignoring Linux here.

 

Well, MBPs do have that cool touchpad...

 

True, but so does pretty much most other consumer-class Wintels. Plus, there's the problem of having the same gesture being recognized as two or more different things (such as left swipe vs just moving the cursor right).

 

Maybe it's that good. Should prolly try to install Win8 on my sister's MBP. Finally, a practical use for it (actually, both things )!

 

Doesn't surprise me at all. One of the staunchest Win8 supporters in this very forum is a Mac person (in part, anyway), and he (Mitlov) has explained in great detail why he feels that Windows 8 minimizes the difference between Windows and OS X GUIs. If I take his posts to that effect at face value (and he may well be right), then I would expect Mac users to like Windows 8. Unfortunately, despite this, I would hazard a guess that very few Mac users will switch to Windows because of this, whereas the group of people who should be the most likely to switch to Windows 8 (namely, Windows users) have decidedly mixed opinions about the product. Not a good place to be, when you gain allies among a tiny group of non-customers that will remain non-customers, while losing your customer base. I just can't help myself having doubts about the wisdom of that particular move.

 

[looks at signature]

[looks at post]

[raises eyebrow]

 

Time for you to get out of the closet . Admit it, you like Apples 'n' Macs 'n' stuff!

 

[Shrug] I thought I had seen this poster talk about using a Mac before, but I'll apologize, profusely, if this recollection of mine is incorrect. I do understand, however, that this poster is not claiming any specific statement of mine to be incorrect. Perhaps he wants to tell us that he is not a supporter of Windows 8, instead. P.S.: I did a quick search, and it turns out that, indeed, this poster at one point did describe actively using an Apple laptop.

 

I didn't comment further becuase I'm tired of running around and around in circles with the same debate. Windows 8 has been out SIX MONTHS and you're still making the same arguments a couple times a day every day. You have unending enthusiasm for re-arguing the same argument; I'm tired of arguing it. I use Windows 8 daily and still use my Duo 11 as my main computing device. I like it.

I bought a couple of Macs during the Bush administration. I haven't purchased any Apple product since late 2008 (when I got a MBP to replace a defective IdeaPad). The iPad you see in my Duo 11 review (for size comparison) was a gift to my kids from their grandparents. It's not mine.

So if anyone who has ever owned a Mac is a "Mac person," regardless of what they use as their primary devices and what they prefer, then yeah, I'm a "Mac person." But only in that sense.

 

only one thing on this entire board is more undying than pirx's anti-W8 ranting--that being the futility of arguing with him. face it, you're a mac person!

 

Yeah, you don't want to mess with Pirx. Just look at his avatar, W8 has given him a permanent headache!

(His avatar is older than W8 tho.)

 

I once owned a Subaru for a year and a half; that doesn't make me a "Subaru guy," particularly in light of the five Hondas I've owned (including my current daily driver).

Regardless, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I've been tainted by Apple so my opinion isn't valid? What? The fact is, I use Windows 8 on my main machine and I like it. I liked Windows 7 a whole lot too. I got tired of explaining and re-explaining why I like Windows 8 months ago. You post daily about how much you hate it. Why did you feel the need to call me out by name and try and bring me back into this?

 

Hattin' on Windows 8 before it was cool .

 

Maybe he lives in Portland?

 

[Sigh] There's the reading comprehension problem again. NO, I did not imply any of the above. As is entirely clear from what I wrote, the main point of this particular post was that it was YOU who had made the point that the Win8 GUI has certain similarities with the OS X GUI. I happen to agree with YOU on this. If you feel insulted by my mentioning our agreement, be my guest. Other than that, my interest in your specific personality traits is somewhere between non-existing and zero, and I suspect the same is true for most everybody else, so you might as well leave those fascinating tidbits out of the discussion.

 

aaaaaaaaaaaand this sort of profound rudeness is why I quit debating you on Windows 8 months ago. Have fun continuing to post on the same topic

Look at the course of the conversation again. That comment was not in response to him calling me a "Mac person," but in response to him going through years of previous posts to try and prove that I was. I got annoyed when he started searching through years of my previous posts to find proof that I had in fact once owned an Apple laptop *gasp* when all I'd done is deny being a "Mac person."

 

Michael Palin - "This is futile.."
John Cleese - "No it isn't!"

 

My desktop boots to Windows 7 in under 10 seconds. The Win8 boot time really isn't as impressive as it's made out to be.

 

I can boot OS X in about the same amount of time.

 

Ooh, but I can boot MS-DOS 6.22 in even less time. And, good-old DOS is about as good at single-tasking as Windows 8's WinRT-based environment. The GUI itself is just as primitive as well: Full-screen everything, even the ASCII-based graphics look just like they do in Windows 8. What's not to like?

 

Late to the discussion, but I use Windows 8 on my desktop and it's okay with me. I remember looking through the log for Classic Shell one time; in addition to the Start button (which I would like, but I'm not going to bother with a non-native option), it also offers a ton of wacky interface options to make Windows 8 function more like Windows 3.1 or 95. If I'm not mistaken (and there's a perfectly legitimate chance that I am), the project itself was running long before Windows 8 made the latest round of GUI changes. There will always be those - and sometimes the majority - who object to new paradigms for old systems - I'm occasionally one of them and I'm not enamored of all of the new changes in Windows 8 - but after a while we all settle down and figure it out until somebody changes the system again and we protest the loss of a feature whose very inclusion we protested before.

Anybody else remember the outcry when they removed the pretty blue, green, and red defrag GUI with the introduction of Vista?

 

Apple doesn't care? They make an OS on the side? OSX is a major driving force behind their PC sales. Also they get all proceeds from selling it retail, they keep the money they would have otherwise paid Microsoft for Windows licenses, and they sell their own software for OSX. And this is just with PC's, not even getting into tablets and phones.

 

serious question--have you tried the desktop app yet?

 

I'll tell you a secret: There is no such thing as a "desktop app". The "app" is not an app.

 

All of this hullaballoo is vaguely reminiscient of the NBR makeover http://forum.notebookreview.com/sit...ebookreview-makeover-october-16-2012-a-8.html. Let's see.... barely a peep there since Nov 2012.
Did I miss it or is windows 7 no longer available or supported?
IMO this thread should really be in Off Topic, I consider the "upper level" for actual questions and answers not rambling, repetitive, reguritation. (please pardon my alliteration ) and no offense to anyone in particular.
Well said FatDragon :thumbsup:

 

Well... yeah. First and foremost, Apple is a hardware company (while Microsoft is a software company at heart). They just took a version of BSD, changed up a few things, and (I imagine) sell it at a loss (free on the devices you purchase, or $30 by itself). Or it might not be a loss, since we're mainly talking about GUI changes and driver packages specifically for their laptops, and Apple makes enough pretty pennies on their hardware to not bother charging more for their OS.

Now, contrast this to Microsoft. Until recently (so, ignoring Surface), how many computers have they made? How much have they charged for their OS? How was Windows developed? For the most part, Microsoft didn't care about hardware (in contrast to Apple) and that's why we have companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc selling Windows computers.

If Apple was actually a software company at heart, wouldn't they value their OS more than free/$30? Wouldn't they sell it to OEMs to increase the market share of their OS? But this isn't the case; Apple cares more about how their devices look (one example, check out their lawsuit history... Mostly hardware-centric). Hardware brings in a hell of a lot more profit for them; developing an OS pretty much from scratch (or something like DOS, like what Windows did) would be expensive for them, hence not worth it.

Their major driving force is "look at this iShiny I bought!", not "I'm running a BSD derivative!". So long as the OS does what they need and does it in a good way (such as tue four C's in that Win8 video), then the OS is irrelevant.

 

It really has nothing to do at all with the NBR makeover. One is a website and the other is a new version of the most widely used operating system in the world. It's all completely valid criticism, and the market seems to agree.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9237252/Windows_8_uptake_slows_for_third_straight_month

 

The theory that people resist change and eventually get used to it was laid to rest by Vista and Windows 7...I don't remember people resisting change when windows7 came out.Why?Because it was a good product.The consumer is always right.Always...The perfect product is the one the consumer demands and wants.MS can defend windows8,can advertise it as an inovative and perfect product,and it may well be(not in my opinion)but that's irrelevant.Windows8 is a complete and utter failure.The huge majority of consumers don't like it and don't want it.If the ultimate judge,the consumer,say it sucks(and they are saying it in huge percentages)then it sucks...

 

Software is, first and foremost, how Apple differentiates themselves from Windows PCs in their advertising.



Also, they make a TON of money off software. New OS versions are $30/year, every year (as opposed to Microsoft who sells a new OS version every few years), but that's not the cash cow. The two cash cows are the App Store (where you can get everything from AAA games to high-end photo and video editing software to word processors, with Apple taking a 30% cut of every sale) and iTunes.

 

An "app" is just another name for a program. It doesn't necessarily mean a touch-and-mobile-oriented program. Exhibit 1? Final Cut Pro, OSX desktop software, selling for $299 in the Mac App Store.

 

So.... Windows Live Essentials defines how Microsoft makes their OS unique..? That's the sort of vibe I'm getting from that video. And as for the App Store, most of that software is 3rd party, so I don't see how that pertains to Apple (aside from getting their massive 30% cut from sales). That'd be like me claiming that yard work is an important part of my business because I take 30% of the income from some kids who do the yard work for me. Same deal for iTunes: they set up the environment, but all Apple is really doing is making a profit from artists.

We've known about making Hackintoshes for quite a while. This isn't something new, yet how many people do you know that have such a setup? Personally, I can count up all the people I know about it on one hand (just me, via VM, but I took it off recently because I didn't like it enough to keep). So if the software is what makes Apple famous for what it is, why aren't more people buying just the OS and installing it on their computers? I can tell you: because their computers don't physically look like a Mac. You buy Apple for the hardware, not the software. Otherwise, Hackintoshes would be a common thing (EULA be damned).

That probably also explains why some people buy MBPs and the like simply to run Windows or Linux on them.

 

Same could be said about Steam. Valve doesn't have a lot of their games there (compared to other devs/publishers), but sales are big enough and 30% cut is pretty sweat considering those sales numbers. So does Apple do with their stuff and now Microsoft is trying to get on that action. It's nothing wrong I guess (hey, just business), but honestly it's not what I wanted to see.

That is pretty true. My sister couldn't care less what OS she has, as long as it's pretty like MBP.
About that EULA thing, I think I've read something that this European commission told that it is nonsense that Apple has written their (OSX installation is permitted only Apple devices). It was long ago, maybe Apple changed some thing now. Google to the rescue!

I personally hate the word app (probably due to it being overused too much), even more when it's being used for serious software. I know it's short for application, but damn, I hate the word. I dare someone call Catia, Photoshop, Matlab, etc. an app. I would do something nasty things to those people.

 

No, it's not. Not in the context of what I said, and not in the context of the vast majority of conversations in the vicinity of topics we are discussing here.

 

Lenovo has picked up the Windows 8 vibe, it seems, and is acting accordingly...

Now, if they were only allowed to un-screw the consumer.. But the consumer is never given a chance...

 

As far as I know, all business-class PCs are offered with Windows 7. I know for certain this to be true for Dell, in which case the Windows 7 configuration is the default one. They do offer the option to order with Windows 8 installed, however.

 

Sometime you should learn how to post without including personal attacks against other people. It's a useful life skill.

 

As much as I agree with your Win7 vs Win8 points Pirx, I do agree with Mitlov here: personal attacks aren't required to make a point about the OS.

 

You are correct, post edited accordingly. P.S.: It's Pirx...

 

My bad .

Anyway, looks like a mod deleted some posts.

EDIT: nvm, looks like all the posts are still here?

 

Heh, don't worry about it. For some reason, I seem to get that one a lot...

 

I had windows 8 on my laptop for all of 15 minutes and decided to revert back to windows 7. Its not productive, its entirely counter intuitive, and simply not built for normal computers. I have it on my X220 Tablet, and it does a decent job on there. My parents bought a new laptop with windows 8, and immediately commanded I put windows 7 on there. Windows 8 will flop, big time. Windows RT is a waste, MS will never gain a foothold in the ARM market. What they should be banking on, is the introduction of low consumption intel CPUs finding their way into traditional ARM devices. That is more likely to happen than a MS ARM OS gaining a foothold in that market.

Would have very much liked it if Windows 8 under the hood performance changes were applied to the well established Windows 7 GUI.