Your opinion on Windows 8

Hi, I was close to purchasing an HP Envy Laptop, except it comes pre-loaded with Windows 8. I've heard conflicting reviews, and read that HP does not allow users to downgrade to Windows 7 unless they have Win 8 Pro.

I love Windows 7 and would prefer to stay, except this laptop I'm looking at has everything I want (i5 processor, 8gb RAM, 1080 display, for $700 except it's Windows 8.

What is your opinion on Win 8's user friendliness and functionality? Is there a work-around to getting Windows 7 on the HP envy? Any feedback is appreciated!

Thank you

 

My opinion: I like W8, but I don't like the new start page, or rather, I don't care for it.
(I don't suffer from OCD and that's why I can utilize the task bar! )

My suggestion: If you use less than 40 programs on a daily basis you don't need the Start menu or the Start page much.
Pin every program you use to the task bar when you open it for the first time, even the Control Panel, and only remove something when you realize that you don't need it anymore.
Set W8 to boot to directly to desktop.

I open the Start page maybe once a week, and did the same with the Start menu in W7.

I'm not the biggest W8 fan, but honestly I don't miss W7 at all.

 

My opinion:

Gaming: Awesome!

Everything else: Not so awesome...

P.S. Install StartIsBack if you want to make your Windows 8 experience bearable.

 

Cool, thanks for the feedback. After some further reading I've found there's 2 programs that can restore Win 7's start menu/taskbar. They are called Start8 and ModernMix. What is StartisBack and how is it different from the two programs I mentioned?

Any input is welcome

 

StartIsBack is the best one.

 

I think ModernMix is used for running modern apps on the desktop, but I'm not sure.

 

Yep that's exactly what it does. Made by the same company (Stardock) that makes Start8, which is their Start Menu replacement.

There are a lot of free ones as well as paid ones out there and all of the paid ones have a limited time trial. I think I've tried all of the popular ones and StartIsBack is by far my favorite and that's why I bought it. Adds a lot of cool and useful functionality besides just a Start Menu and is the most authentic and lightweight/native one out there. Definitely a few bucks well spent.

 

You can look at the List of features removed in Windows 8 in Wikipedia, and see if there's anything there you really want or need (besides the Start Menu, which you can get third-party replacements for as has been discussed). The totality of these makes Windows 8.x a non-starter for me, but you may well feel that you can live without them.

 

Wow thanks for all the speedy replies. I'd be fine with Win 8 as long as I can use the desktop the same way as in 7 (saving to desktop, have My Computer on desktop etc)

Is this possible? Also, are the file paths in Win 8 the same, such as C:\Windows and My Documents/My Music in the same location?

 

If you use a lot of Windows 7 features and aren't a power user you're gonna have a hard time with Windows 8.x because a lot of those features are now hidden or no longer GUI-based or were downright removed. You have to muck around in Command Prompt or Task Scheduler or make .bat files which are not intuitive at all especially for the average layperson.

 

It's still the same in Windows 8 but in 8.1 Libraries are hidden by default in Explorer.

 

I use Windows 8.1 and I have an average, normal workflow. Everything I need to do, I can easily do. I even use some Windows 8 apps.

 

Same line can be used as well I use Windows 7x64 Ult Sp1 and have average, normal workflow. Everything I need to do, I can easily do. And I don't need Windows 8 apps to accomplish my work in timely manner. So that line doesn't fly....for Windows 8.

 

Well, to be fair, since the OP has (is going to have) a laptop that comes with Windows 8.x, Sub's point was perfectly valid: Indeed, there are people who can live perfectly fine with Windows 8.x, and the OP is well advised to try and find out if he is one of them. If so, he can spare himself the effort (and, likely, expense) of reverting to Windows 7.

However, as I have said above, I strongly recommend to look beyond the surface of the UI changes. There are a number of additional features, some of which may be considered critical by some users, that have been removed for Windows 8.x. For me personally, the removal of persistent Shadow Copies, and the destruction of the pervasive search facility in Windows 7 make Windows 8.x a non-option even if I could stand the inane UI. As an aside, the latter also takes Office 2013 out of contention for me, as well.

 

The OP was quick to stress the cost of the laptop as a point for his decision to purchase it. As such, I took "spending more money on another OS" out of the equation, and based my statements strictly on the premise that the OP was getting Windows 8 and wanted feedback on that experience. As my experience with Windows 8.1 has been positive, I expressed statements to that effect.

 

Don't forget the removal of automated backups, manage wireless networks GUI, Aero, desktop gadgets, scheduled scan & default actions & custom scans from right-click context menu in MSE (Defender),......

 

File History does a more granular type of backup. With settings stored in Microsoft Accounts in the cloud, A typical Windows 7 backup isn't as needed. Replace the (I guess failed) drive, reinstall Windows 8.x, login to MS account, settings sync automatically, install apps, use File History to restore whatever.

Added in Windows 8.1 Update.

The graphics accelerating engine is still there and quite healthy. They only removed the shiny window theme.

Gadgets were deprecated some time ago. Gadgets have been discontinued - Microsoft Windows
Windows 8.x live tiles essentially replace them, in a secure manner.

As MSE doesn't actually come with Windows 7, Windows 7 couldn't do any of this either. Unless you installed MSE. Just as you can add MSE to Windows 7, you can, well, Add "Scan with Windows Defender" to Windows 8's Right-Click Menu . Scheduled scans can be configured under the Task scheduler. Custom scans can be configured in Windows Defender itself (exclude files, locations, processes).

 

Great, so I have to do a million different non-intuitive things to get Windows 8 back to the way Windows 7 was?

 

"Intuitive" is a matter of personal preference, experience and habit. What is non-intuitive for you may be just fine for others, especially if they have never spent much time with the previous versions of Windows.

 

I don't know what's unintuitive about anything I said.

If all you want is to have Windows 7, then use Windows 7. As I already said, the OP didn't ask about using Windows 7. They asked about using Windows 8.

 

Let's just say that there are many, many other scenarios under which File History is somewhere between cumbersome and completely useless. But, sure, if the one you mention above is all you need, you'll be perfectly well served with Windows 8.x.

As for Aero, there's more that has been removed than just the Theme files themselves, as you are fully aware. Finally, tiles are no replacement for gadgets, as should be entirely obvious as well.

Well, manually going into Task Manager to schedule system scans yourself is not necessarily everyone's idea of intuitive... You and I may find that easy, but the average Joe likely won't.

 

You got it backwards. What's non-intuitive for me would be even worse for those who have not spent much time with previous versions of Windows because they wouldn't realize when features are missing/hidden and wouldn't know how to get them back.

It's unintuitive because it involves doing extra research and going out of your way to get things done. Which is too much to ask from the computer illiterate people that Windows 8 AKA "the antithesis of the power user" (M$ words not mine) was designed for in the first place.

File History is not a replacement for Windows Backup because it doesn't allow a choice of folders to backup; it only backs up the contents of your Desktop, Favorites, Contacts, and Libraries which are now conveniently hidden by default herr derr.

SkyDrive requires extra setup and an M$ account. Plus anything beyond a measly amount of cloud storage costs extra. Cloud backups are in no way a replacement for secure local backups especially of important system files and sensitive documents/photos/videos since M$ makes no guarantee against data loss on its servers or protection from the snooping eyes of the NSA.

You obviously haven't used Desktop Gadgets extensively to think that Live Tiles can replace them.

I just checked and Windows 8.1 Update 1 still doesn't have the manage wireless networks GUI that was in Windows 7. All they did was bring back the context menu for in-range WiFi connections, which was already present in 8 but removed in 8.1. In 8.1.1 you still have to bring up an elevated Command Prompt to make changes to the network profiles stored in the system.

MSE doesn't come with Windows 8 but I'm not allowed to install MSE either. And if Defender is supposed to replace MSE then why is it so stripped down?

Adding scan with Defender to the right-click context menu is not the same as this:



It doesn't open up the Defender GUI (a Command Prompt? Seriously?! Are we back to Windows 3.x?!?), there is no progress indicator, and you can't take any necessary action if malware is detected. All it tells you is whether or not a threat was detected and that's it. Plus the Registry tweak you linked to doesn't even allow scanning of individual files, only folders, which is why I use this .bat file instead: Scan with Windows Defender - Add in Windows 8

And again, it's not intuitive because it involves online research and the know-how to make Registry changes or execute .bat files, things which grandma and Aunt Polly are clueless about. Same goes for setting up scheduled scans in Task Scheduler, which frankly I don't even know how to do. And Default Actions is simply gone with no way workaround to get it back as far as I know.

The contrast between MSE and W8 Defender is but a microcosm of the larger W7 vs. W8 debate. The way I see it from the perspective of a desktop user who never ever ventures into the Metro, W8 is simply W7 with under-the-hood CPU and memory performance optimizations but a lot of useful features removed or hidden or stripped of their functionality. So coming full circle to my first post in this thread, W8 is great if you're just gaming but it kinda sucks for everything else.

 

Just so you know, as it's come up before, when people use "M$" it denotes a childish demeanor. You may as well call them "poopyfaces." It's hard to have a serious discussion with someone that does this.

This is basically "it doesn't do what *I* want it to do, so it's not intuitive." When in reality, having a canned set of definitely backed up folders that is clearly known to the user from moment one is better than asking a user who is oblivious to Windows filesystem structures to pick and choose.

It's 7GB, which isn't bad, and many users end up getting more space anyway. I think mine is 25GB. Ironically you defeat your own argument, as the "measly" space clearly is not enough to store much in the way of "sensitive videos." Do you want multiple copies of sensitive stuff floating around? I dunno.

I never used them since I never saw a need for them. Given how quick Microsoft was to retire them, maybe they weren't that popular in the grand scheme anyway.

Win8.1 Update's wifi menu now has right-click options for any wifi it knows, with options that resemble those from Win7, including deleting them.

Because having grandma sift through several menus of technobabble to deal with viruses is not really intuitive. A virus gets on the system, Defender is supposed to just remove it. Done.

If you require really refined scanning, maybe you want a more robust third party solution. Microsoft made Defender to be a quick and simple tool, it's not designed to compete with Symantec or Sophos, and Microsoft has not been shy on this at all.

Grandma and Aunt Polly aren't developing hyper-sensitive file backup processes and tightening their tinfoil hat to protect their terabytes of "sensitive videos" from the NSA (grandma.. why..). They also aren't scanning very specific files for viruses at specific times on specific days. But then again, for all of these things, third party solutions exist, for people who need them.

A lot of people are still getting work done with Windows 8.x. Like me. And I don't just game.

 

M$ M$ M$. Who cares what I call them. If you can't have a serious discussion why bother addressing every single thing in my post? Practicing those Windows 8 apologetics?

Navigating a few well-explained GUI menus is way more intuitive than navigating Windows Registry, Command Prompt, and .bat files. Even Grandma will admit to that.

Nope. Right-click in the 8.1.1 WiFi flyout menu still only allows you to delete in-range connections, same as 8. Any other out-of-range network profiles can still only be deleted through Command Prompt.

M$ stopped supporting Desktop Gadgets because of W8 (its excuse was that they were a "security risk"). Doesn't mean that Desktop Gadgets or just widgets in general aren't popular or extremely useful, which they are. Doesn't mean much though as outside developers continue making great gadgets, it just shows how little M$ cares about its user base.

M$ should retire W8 since it's not that popular in the grand scheme anyway.

 

Well, looks like there are plenty of regressions when you dig into it.

 

Exactly. Well said.

 

As for "MS doesn't care about its user base", what do you think is MS thinking? Maybe they believe they don't have any competition anyway (Mac OS is limited to Apple hardware, and while the Macs are not bad hardware they are not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.) so as long as they can make sure OEMs jump on their boat as usual it's all good?

 

Sounds about right.

Or should I say a certain portion of the M$ user base gets preferential treatment. Xbox? Yay. Windows software and PC gaming? Nay.

 

Microsoft is well aware of their competition, both on the Mac side, Linux side, and yes, the Microsoft side. MS's biggest competitor with Windows 8 on the PC was Windows 7 but that's the least of their problems. MS can do all kinds of weird perceived strongarm stuff (despite Lenovo and others still shipping Win7 computers) but they still need to sell Windows 8, in a declining market, on computers that are not substantially better (from the general user standpoint) as computers from five years ago. MS isn't trying to just sell an OS, they are trying to move an entire market. They are the salmon swimming upstream.

I do enjoy how vehemently raged people are about this stuff though. If wrapping Windows 7 around your fist and breaking all of misery2014's teeth ramming it down their throat is like, the thing you're into, then woohoo, I guess? For the Nth time the OP asked about Windows 8 in the context of Windows 8. He's getting it, he wants to know how the usability is. So far, it's been more of less "I hate it cuz it sux" which is not productive. "I can't scan any random file with the free AV thingy" I don't think is a real deal breaker for most people. The other stuff is like, well, edge case things MS likely removed because the small group that used it would find another way to do it. Which many have. AV, file backups, whatever else you were whining about, there's solutions, and have been solutions, for years. People used third party tools to do backups and scan for viruses long before MS started bolting that stuff on. It's not new to grandma. She's old enough, she remembers using McAfee or whatever.

Microsoft cares about their userbase to know that the majority of their userbase doesn't want a zillion checkboxes and options. They want to click an icon and run a browser, or email or Word, or whatever. Windows still does that, and it's easier than ever. Somehow. Big buttons. Users don't need to tune their carburetors anymore. Turn key, start PC. or.. something.

 

The PC market is not declining. That's a very misleading statistic. It's actually growing, being mainly propped up by the hobbyists and enthusiasts due to the explosion of PC gaming in recent years with more peasants joining the master race every day. HP and Dell and whatever OEM might be selling fewer and fewer machines quarter after quarter but that's because the general population who buy prebuilt systems have had no reason to upgrade for years. But all the gamers who build and upgrade their own rigs aren't counted in the "PC is dying" statistics. And guess what: There are a lot of them and coincidentally (or not) most of them go for Windows 7. You only have to look at the record shipments and profits in the last few years by Nvidia, Intel, AMD (more recently), and all those Chinese/Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing companies to see that PC is stronger than it's ever been.

 

I would argue that while it's true most users are not fans of a zillion check-boxes, most of this group are irrelevant. Most causal users do not actively choose operation system products. When grandpa wants to buy a new computer, he would not check one hundred reviews and pick up a specific version of a specific operation system family that fits his current and near-future needs the most. He is going to buy some machine he happens to see and like for some reason, press the power button, and use whatever OS that was loaded on that machine and boots up, which is probably the current version of MS Windows.

You can point out that grandpa is already familiar with a number of Windows-based application as well as the system GUI itself, so it would be reasonable to pick up a Windows box. But that is our reasoning. Grandpa does not know this. From his perspective, the only reason he buys a new computer with Win8 loaded on it is he does not see anything else. If the machine that happened to look good to him somehow was pre-loaded with Mac OS X, Ubuntu, ChromeOS or whatever, he might use it. And after asking the sells man how to check e-mails on this thing, he might like it.

No matter how hard MS tries to improve its next OS offering, it would not impress the majority of the user base at all. It's the OEM cooperation that makes the difference. The function set, performance and UI/UE design only matters when it comes to those who are computer-aware and actively choose what OS to buy/use. This is the vocal group who are raged atm, for one reason or another.

 

Fascinating. I would be curious to see where and when exactly "this" has come up before. What has come up before is that some people seem to be extremely sensitive towards some other people using this particular abbreviation. Personally, I think it's somewhat dated, and I would not use it, but most certainly there is no justification for the kind of silly conclusion you seem to be drawing.

Would you like to point us to the extensive research you have done that would support this conclusion? Or should we rather conclude that you feel that because it does what you want it to do, it must be fine for the rest of the world?

You mean like the Start Menu? And, let's not forget that you were the guy making a pronouncement as to how Tiles are a perfectly fine replacement for Desktop Gadgets. It is amusing to now see you back-pedaling to say that you never used Desktop Gadgets, ergo have no idea what they do. We'll keep this in mind.

Alright, so you are saying that Windows 8 is really meant for "Grandma and Aunt Polly", and I would agree that this is indeed the case. Trouble is, there are users other than "Grandma and Aunt Polly" out there, and those users have been left out in the cold. And, yes, absolutely, those users are a minority, but Microsoft has quickly found out that ignoring and alienating this minority has cost them billions of dollars. You know, I understand that you are not aware of this side of things, but catering to professional demands has been a crucial element of Microsoft's success, all the way back to the days when Microsoft provided a Fortran compiler for PCs because engineers wanted one.

Sure. But that's not good enough. The issue is that a lot of people now need to look elsewhere to get work done.

If indeed that is Microsoft's idea, then they are doomed. The above is so mind-bogglingly stupid on so many levels, it's not even funny.

I find this characterization of the responses in this thread to be outrageous to the point of being offensive.

That's a completely empty line of argument if there ever was one. The point is exactly that we are now forced to go look for third-party solutions, some of which will cost us more than the entire OS, and they do not, and cannot, have the deep integration that built-in facilities in Windows 7 had.

This means exactly nothing. The majority of their userbase happens to not need a PC at all, and would be better off with an iOS or Android-based solution for their computing needs. So maybe we should suggest that Microsoft shut down their Windows division entirely. What do you think?

 

No but trying to say something that isn't entirely truthful isn't good either. Take a good look at W8 market shares and you can say for Fact Mac OSx is even better then W8. So there are more to context in the story then W8 and also notice you don't see any ads for W8 and how good it is or people wanting to migrate to W8 even institutions and corporations are not going W8 that should tell anyone how much W8 really has hit bottom. That's are just some things W8 doesn't have going for it. After XP was stopped most kept XP or looked for W7 systems not W8. W8 debacle and all its not listening to the testers and IT testers tells how much backward thinking they started with. AFAIK

As to the OP getting W8 computer they should really go and see a W8 running at the electronics store and try it out and see what it really does for them and see what software they are going to use on it that will tell them if that is what they wanted or not.

 

@ OP, when the next Windows 8 update comes out in a few months with the start menu back, you won't be able to tell the difference between Win 8 and 7, other than this:

Replace widgets with live tiles. And rather than having widgets on the right side of the screen, live tiles are stuck to the right side of the start menu...

 

Wow, this has gotten so far off track. The OP needs to get to a store, or a friend, that has a W8 machine they can play with extensively. The other option, although it is becoming more limited every day, is find a W7 machine.

Just a heads up though, no one here hates W8 because it sux, we hate it because M$ not only made it bad but continues refusing to fix it but promising they will!

 

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A month ago I try to find a OS for my laptop(I use for everyday task(net surf, movie watch, some light game, and work in Photoshop CC)), so I have to choose between Win7hp at 100EU or win8/8.1 at 60EU, so I am after a reliable OS for a production laptop, the fact that are still problems with software on win 8, the fact that I can not choose between old UI and new one(I don't have a thouch screen , but I have a touch wacom tablet), the fact that the win8 report too many(to MS or others) info about my use of pc/net make me to go with old and still reliable win7, for me a good OS must be 90% for production and 10% design, I think if the price was same as win 7 and if it was pc/laptop with preinstalled win 7, win8 it sales only 1% of today numbers...even if MS it give me free I will not used in my everyday pc/laptop...

 

Choose for what? If you want to be at the desktop you go to the desktop.

That's more like it just outright tinfoil hatting. Did it kick your dog too?

 

S.SubZero : Well , I am adult enough to make my own path in life, if you like to others to choose for you, that it is up to you, but don't try to force me to think you have right(I already lived the comunism "dream")...the best part it is that we still have some freedom to choose the OS(everyday harder)...to me , at this moment, windows 7 it still the best solution from linux/mac/win xp/win 7/win8/win8.1...

 

Except you're choosing based on a lie. I don't know who told you Windows 8 "reports info about your use of pc/net" but it does not do that any more than any other OS or app. If you don't want to use cloud services like a Microsoft account and Onedrive, then.. don't. You don't have to. There are certainly conveniences to doing so, but you can avoid it if you want.

I don't know what "old UI and new one" you are really talking about but I assume you mean one thing, the Start screen. Aside from a few infrequently accessed panels, that's the ModernUI front-end everyone sees and when they talk about their disdain of Windows 8, that's their focus. I use the Start screen, my workflow is no different than with Win7, except now everything I want to click on is much bigger and sometimes dynamic. For me personally, this is not an iron curtain descended over the divide between the east and west, where folks with machine guns prohibit me from clicking stuff. I still do everything I did before.

I also have a Polish friend who's family moved from Poland to the US in the early 80's, not running scared, but with furniture delivered by boat and freight trucks. So ya know, when people tell me how it was so impossible to get out from behind the Iron Curtain, I dunno, maybe for some people. Maybe some people who could have left were simply told they would never be able to, so they never tried.

Have you tried Windows 8.1?

 

I agree with most of stuff you said but the start screen takes away hierarchical menu structure, which can be a big problem in some workflows. You can get this back with 3rd-party tools. However, for some mysterious reason people just hate that.

 

From 12 years ago. That's certainly not the origin of it, but IMO, it's as childish and stupid then as it is now.

 

So here we have this guy, sitting comfortably behind his keyboard, all but telling those thousands and thousands of families who felt trapped behind the iron curtain that they simply didn't get it. How charming. How positively endearing.

Nice to see how his understanding of the real word seems to be just as limited as his grasp of computer operating systems. Thanks for the insight.

Uh huh, sure. Exactly what I said: " Some people seem to be extremely sensitive towards some other people using this particular abbreviation". Thanks for confirming.

 

You mean...
?

This workflow is so bad even Linux distros tried as hard as possible not to copy it.

The new workflow paradigm, well, since the mobile device revolution, has been to take all the common stuff and get it as far out of these menus as possible. Windows 8 tried the not-so-subtle "put a single screen of tier 1 stuff, put everything else at tier 2" (All Apps) which seems to be the style now, but MS has tweaked this approach a bit. While this may not seem like the optimal way to arrange stuff, the basic idea is users aren't going to tier 2 frequently. If you launch an app out of All Apps more than like 3 times in a week, it should be at tier 1, on the Start screen.

 

That is XP and why I prefer windows 7

 

That's news to me as well. As far as I'm concerned it just denotes Microsoft as a business and a very successful one at that. Then again I don't get the love / hate of OS's. They all have good and bad points depending on perspective but I'll use just about anything as long as it gets the work done in a reasonably efficient manner.

 

It makes sense when you have tons of stuff and the naming scheme makes it difficult to search. There was a "I have 1000+ items for work and I don't remember the names" example given in some thread a while ago.

I'm fine with search but some people might find it tricky.

Other than confining menu items to a smaller space it seems to be identical.

 

I like the XP Start Menu the best. IMO it's the most refined version of the classic Start Menu that had been there since Windows 95. The fly out menus make much better use of screen real estate, especially if you have a lot of stuff.

 

Start Menu is a must. Without it Windows 8/8.1 is impossible to work with - my $0.02.

 

Well, the title say "Your opinion on Windows 8", so in short for me it is bad;with Windows ME was same think(most of people said it was bad), but I try it after I gather some info, it was bad, same think was to Windows Vista(I try it after some info and most of people say it is bad), now I see the history it is repeat,Windows 8 it is bad for productivity, and I try to learn from history so no more install, just watch and go on...to Windows 9(maybe)...