can vista be uninstalled from desktop and put on another desktop?

hi, i have an oem licensed version of windows vista. is it true that we can install the windows on any machine we like as long as it's only one machine at a time?

 

You technically can do this.
However, it is against Microsoft's EULA and therefore not legal.
An OEM license is tied to whatever hardware it is first installed on.
To answer your question: No.

 

depending on the disc though, it may be tied to a hardware ID like a mac address. so it may not work.

though when you call in to have the license re-activated they ask you how many machines the license is installed on, not have you ever installed it on another machine.

 

but i have read on a thread that a user had the same problem. he phoned ms, and was told that as long as it installed on only one computer at the same time, there should not be any problem.

 

That's not for OEM, that's for retail.
Here, try it, I have the activation number for the US on speed dial.
1-888-571-2048
Tell them you took the license that came installed on your HP and are now installing it on a computer you built, see what they say.

 

im not in the US. i guess your are right then. i suppose i just wasted my money by buying it.

 

But the OP didn't say anything about taking it from an HP and moving it to a machine he built. If he built the first machine and bought a generic OEM install disk and used it, then latter built another machine, I am not sure that he cannot legally move the license to the new machine. I think that MIGHT be ok under the EULA.

Gary

 

Maybe not. Did the OEM license come with a machine? Or did you buy it to install on a machine in the first place?

Gary

 

In this instance, it sounds like the OP would constitute a so-called "system builder" who is allowed to do unlimited installs from his OEM disk for his own personal use (and not for sale or distribution to others).

 

AFAIK, OEM OS's from Microsoft are tied to the motherboard
i have heard stories of people phoning up microsoft and telling them they had to replace their mobo because it broke, and microsoft letting them do so

heres an article about OEM vista, im assuming 7 should be similar
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/01/8730.ars

 

An OEM copy that was preinstalled by the OEM who built your system is locked to that one system; however, if you purchase an OEM disk from, e.g., Newegg, then you are, in effect, the OEM, not the ultimate end-user, and you are not obliged to lock the copy to your particular hardware, provided it's only being used for your own personal use and isn't being sold or otherwise transferred to another person.

 

if you read the article you will see that it is talking about buying standalone OEM OS for system-builders (from newegg and such), and not from HP, Dell, etc.
and you will see that the license is locked down to the motherboard it is installed on

 

I've read through the EULAs for system-builder versions, and I know for a fact that the copy cannot possibly be locked to the system because the system-locking mechanisms are not automatic and must be deployed by the OEM prior to shipping a system with a preinstalled OS to a customer.

However, for the OEM disk-owner's own use, on his own computers, the OS can be moved from system to system and is not locked to the first bit of hardware it's initially installed on.

 

From what I've read from Microsoft MVPs and MSFTs, that's not correct. The EULA must be granted to the end user. You can't grant the EULA to yourself. For unlimited installations, you must purchase a retail copy. There are no provisions in the OEM EULA for the system builder to use.

 

It all depends on how much emphasis one puts on the various terms in the System Builder License.

Technically, the OEM disks can only be sold to a person who is a "System Builder," which means

Now, depending on how you parse the effect of those commas, this means that you are a "System Builder" if you are any of the following:

1. an OEM,
2. an assembler,
3. a refurbisher, or
4. a software pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party.

Now, the fact that Microsoft has not objected to the fact that reputable sellers such as Newegg and Tigerdirect routinely sell OEM disks to anyone who ponies up the right amount of cash suggests that the above disjunctive reading is correct, because, to my knowledge, neither Newegg nor Tigerdirect (nor any of the scads of eBay sellers of OEM disks) even asks if a buyer will be selling Customer Systems to a third party.

Based on that reading, you can be a "System Builder" if all you do is assemble or refurbish your own computer, which I believe would encompass the installation of a new (as opposed to a preinstalled) operating system.

As such, anyone who purchases an OEM disk for the purpose of assembling or refurbishing their computer by installing a new OS on that computer using the OEM disks is subject to the terms of the System Builder license. By its terms, the System Builder license provides that you may not use or run the Software except as otherwise provided in the license itself. See Para. 4. However, under Paragraph 5(c), prior to distributing the "Hardware" - which term means "the Microsoft hardware included in the Pack. A unit of Hardware includes any software and end user documentation that may be included in the Pack" - the System Builder is required to "test it to ensure that the Hardware functions properly with the Customer System."

Putting all of that together, and unpacking the defined terms, a System Builder operating under the System Builder license may use or run the Software in question - in this case, a copy of a Windows OS - for the purpose of ensuring that the Software - which is included in the unit of "Hardware" to be distributed to an end-user - "functions properly with the Customer System."

Now, clearly, what it means to "test" something is open to a degree of interpretation - the term by itself is ambiguous - and Microsoft's practice of not objecting to the sale by reputable retailers of OEM disks to private individuals for the obvious purpose of personal use further distorts the plain meaning of that term. In other words, the term "test" as used in the System Builder license most likely includes the personal, noncommercial use of an installed copy of the OS subject to that license by the System Builder, provided that the system on which that OS copy is installed is not distributed or otherwise transferred to any other individual for consideration (i.e., basically a sales transaction) until the installed copy of the OS is locked to the hardware using the OPK.

Thus, if a person acquires an OEM disk for their own personal, noncommercial use, and installs it on their own computer, they are arguably, under the terms of the System Builder license as fleshed out by Microsoft's own course of practice, a "System Builder" engaged in predistribution "testing" of the OS contained on the OEM disk for the purpose of ensuring that the OS functions properly with the computer in question.

Furthermore, because that same putative "System Builder" is not required under the terms of the license to "lock" the OS installation to the particular hardware on which it's installed until just before the "System Builder" transfers the computer beyond his or her control to a third party, the person who purchases an OEM disk from, e.g., Newegg, is under no obligation to lock that OEM version to the first computer they install it on, and consequently they may move it to other computers they own, provided that they do not distribute any of their computers to a third party (and beyond their control) prior to locking the installed copy to that computer with the OPK.

Of course, once an installed copy is locked using the OPK, the OEM disk from whence that copy was made can no longer be used to install the OS on other computers because the effect of using the OPK is that Microsoft's activation/validation systems will only recognize the OPK'd system as the legitimate system on which that copy of the OS may be used. Prior to that, however, there is no one computer with which the OEM disk copy is irretrievably associated.

QED

 

Bingo.....

 

think you nailed the issue there shyster........

 

Good argument, Shyster. As a system builder, I just go by what the various Microsoft technicians tell me. Personally, when I use an OEM disc for myself (purchased with hardware, per the rules), it is locked to the first system, since my personal computer does not fall into the realm of "test system". I don't move the operating system around, because there is no reason for me to do so. If my computer becomes obsolete and I choose to reuse that operating system, I reinstall on the new machine and then I call Microsoft for assistance and plead my case. Since I don't do this every day (in fact, since I made my last desktop for personal use about two years ago, I haven't moved that OS yet), Microsoft has never denied my request.

Obviously, anyone can do whatever they want with an OEM license. If validation fails and Microsoft gives the green light for the OS move, then the EULA has not been broken.

 

It's easy to break the EULA and have Microsoft not know that you broke it...
Just because Microsoft gives you the "green light" on activation does not mean their EULA actually allows the move.
As I showed Shyster some time ago, there is actually no way for MS to know if the OEM is installed on the original equipment, and you do not have to even lie to MS. Half the time, the activation completes without even talking to someone (either the online activation or automated activation work). If not, you'll occationally get "did this come preinstalled on the computer, or did you buy it at a retail store?"

When you buy an OEM copy of Windows as a system builder and NOT as a distributor, you MUST also purchase it with a piece of hardware. This is ambiguous, because I've heard about people getting away with selling an OEM copy of Windows paired with a Microsoft mouse. Because you're not selling a whole computer, the OEM is only tied to the hardware which it is sold with.

Trying to say that system builders could be "testing" machines is kind of ridiculous, because that's obviously not what the EULA is saying. You're taking things and running with them. In fact, I'm wondering if it doesn't state somewhere else in the EULA that testing must be for a period of less than 30 days per install or something of that nature.

 

this part is not true. the only unlimited license you can purchase from Microsoft is a volume license key and you must sign into a binding volume license agreement. they will not do this with an individual.

 

Actually, any license is unlimited installs. It's just a VLK allows multiple installs at once, whereas a retail allows unlimited installs, but only one at a time (expect for Retail Professional, which allows one laptop and one desktop, as long as the two are not used at the same time), and OEM allows unlimited installs, but only one at a time, and only on a certain set of hardware.

 

okay maybe microsoft changed the terms for vista, but i know for a fact that XP is tied to the motherboard

from microsoft themselves
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824125

 

The above is enough for me.

 

Unfortunately, you're misreading what Microsoft has stated. When that Microsoft article talks about a "Microsoft Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) operating system" the reference is to the preinstalled operating system that came with your computer when you purchased it. Under the terms of the System Builder license, the OEM who built your computer and preinstalled that operating system would have had to run the OPK on the installed copy and would thereby have locked that copy to your computer.

That set of facts is not the set of facts that we're working with here, because the question revolves around whether or not the OP - who is the "System Builder" in this instance because s/he owns the OEM disk containing the OS in question - can move that same OS from one machine to another. Because the OP, in his/her status as a "System Builder" has not been required to, and has in fact not, run the OPK to lock the installed copy of the OS to a particular machine, the article you reference, while certainly valid for the topic it discusses, is irrelevant here because it does not discuss the topic under consideration here.

 

yeah you're probably correct
i haven't actually read any of the EULAs and such, most of my knowledge is just from the NCIX staff members (the store where I bought my OEM OS) on their message boards
quote from one of the staff:

but either way, it doesn't really make a big difference anyways because as the arstechnica article states (they claim its tied to the motherboard), you can bypass their rules pretty easily (microsoft won't be able tell if you're telling the truth or not)

 

The OPK tool isn't a magic tool to lock an OEM to a certain set of hardware. All the OEM Preinstallation Kit does is make it easy to load lots of computers and then ship them out, without having to hand load each one. Even system builders are not allowed to move the OS from one set of hardware to another.

 

I am quite happy to agree to disagree; however, I would simply note that buying an OEM disk from a reputable retailer like Newegg or Tigerdirect is quite a popular past-time, that Microsoft would almost certainly have come down - hard - on them with lawyers and the like if doing so was a violation of the licensing terms, and that many of those buyers would be quite surprised to learn that they cannot move their operating system to different hardware without any sass or guff from Microsoft when they activate.

 

I am also quite happy to agree to disagree;
the thing is, on the message board of the store (it's a very reputable store up here in Canada, especially since we don't get newegg) from where I bought my OEM OS, there have been numerous stories of people having to call up microsoft for activation because they had to replace a faulty motherboard, and the store staff basically confirming that this is how it works

you know on second thought, maybe this only applies to canadian licenses...

 

Microsoft doesn't come down on them because they can't prove that it's on different hardware than originally installed on.
Newegg doesn't do anything wrong. Tigerdirect doesn't do anything wrong.
The end users do things wrong, and most people violate the EULAs of half of the software they use, because most EULAs outline insane terms that no one reads, that way when something goes wrong, the company is not liable for anything.

 

If "everyone" "knows" that something wrong is being done, don't you think Microsoft would, eventually, be able to figure it out in a provable manner? Also, if Microsoft "knows" that the product that's sold through Newegg or Tiger Direct is being misused, why wouldn't it simply refuse to sell any more product to them? Simple solution - cut off supply. That Microsoft has not done so suggests rather strongly that nothing wrong is going on.

 

a simple way to solve this debate would be to find someone with a test system to test it on
swap the mobo out, and keep everything else the same
unfortunately im stuck with only a laptop for the foreseeable future

 

I agree; the various licensing schemes are so convoluted that it would be really nice to have a data-set created from a controlled condition so we could all know exactly how it works in practice.

 

The thing is, not everyone is doing this. [You need to consider what a small portion of the Windows licenses sold are being sold to people building their own computers. 5% or so? Even then, not all of them are moving the OEM license "illegally"] In fact, few people are doing this... few enough that Microsoft does not even care. Personally, I think the policy is stupid, and I think people should be allowed to do what they want with software once they own it - as many installs as they want (I do not mean concurrent installs), moving from one system to another, modification, and even reverse engineering if they please. However, I am simply saying this is what Microsoft says about how it should be in their fine print.

Microsoft would rather sell some licenses than no licenses. If they cut off Newegg, then they're selling no licenses through that channel. Because they don't have a way to track your computer's hardware configuration alongside your product ID, nor a way to determine a license key based on a product ID (which is why it's so funny when people censor their product IDs in screenshots - it doesn't tell anything too valuable, really just version information). Basically, Microsoft would have to start logging EVERY OEM product key along with the hardware IDs of the hardware it is first installed on. This would cost them probably more money than is lost through illegally transferred licenses, and it would take time to implement.
People take licenses off of Dells and install them on their homebuilt computers as well. Would the best move for Microsoft be to cut off selling Dell licenses as well? Of course not, that would be another channel lost over really close to nothing as far as lost sales go.

BTW, Shyster, have you forgotten the screenshots I sent you of a Dell OEM license installed on totally separate hardware, passing WGA and running updates? I'll re-iterate: MS has no way to track what is installed where.

 

I have done this, however it was several years ago. I built a desktop machine and bought an OEM license for Win98 at a "computer fair". Latter I upgraded to a different motherboard. I called to reactivate and told Microsoft EXACTLY what I had done, nothing hiddend, no skirting of facts. They said "no problem" and activated me immediately.

Gary

 

Might be time for an updated set of datapoints, though.

 

i think he could very well be correct
just googling around, i have read some accounts of people doing activation
supposedly the microsoft reps will only ask you if your software is being used on more than one machine
as long as you answer no, they'll let you activate

 

What happens if you lied?

 

Yep, I agree. I haven't read the EULA for an OEM license in quite a while. Not my reading material of choice unless I am trying to cure a bout of insomnia.

But like darrickmartin, I have seen anecdotal evidence of this still being in play as far as Microsoft is concerned.

Gary

 

Well of course, your head would explode. Jeeze, didn't your mother teach you anything?

Actually WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) can trip you up. It, in theory, detect that the same license key is in use on multiple machines.

Gary

 

I have to activate Windows so often (see post #5, this thread) that I've begun to mess with the reps when I call in.
In the end, they don't care if you're legit or not, they just want to get the call finished, get on to the next call, and get their paycheck. If you keep them hung up, then you're wasting their time, and I'll bet they get a paid (or at least bonuses) based on call completion volumes. That means less calls they can complete if they don't quickly wave you through with a green light.

Anyway, to the story. I was calling to Activate Windows XP, and I told the rep I had XP installed on "One... hundred... or so" computers (said like that, with pauses). I told them I was joking (which I was, the license was only on one computer), but really, if they had decided to tell me I can't activate, all I would have had to do was call back and talk to someone else, and they'd do it. If WGA knows how many PCs a license is installed on, why do they even bother asking?

 

I've seen validation detect someone running an unauthorized enterprise version of Office - the copy was legit, the key was (originally) legit; however, it had apparently grown some legs and wandered out of the office that it belonged to, and after a few successful validations, it eventually got invalidated with a message along those lines.

 

MS's licenses are so vague, they always have a different answer. I did have to reinstall my mobo and they gave me a hard time. Everything else was the same. I even replaced it with the same mobo. Then another time I replaced CPU, memory, hard drive, and video card, and they didn't bat an eye...

 

Probably because you had an OEM version that locked on a particular BIOS code that wasn't present in the BIOS on the replacement board - when BIOS locking is used, the validation system doesn't care about any of the other components.

 

If you install with a manufacturer disc that looks for a BIOS activation code, and it doesn't find one, it will simply try to activate through normal methods. The licenses are indistinguishable otherwise; you can install a Dell, HP, Gateway, Acer, whatever key with a "vanilla" OEM disc. Likewise, you can install a "vanilla" OEM key with almost all big box company discs, as long as the discs are true install disc, and not image discs. BIOS "locking" is not really a lock... it's a free "get activated quick and easy" pass.

 

Not with the older _Sony recovery disks I have for my 6 y.o. VAIO Z1A - if the disk doesn't find the BIOS code, it won't go any further with the installation.

 

Then it's almost definitely not a true install disc, it's probably an imaging disc that:
1) Checks the BIOS for a code. If it's not there, it will not continue. If it is,
2) Pushes a factory image onto the computer, then
3) Seals the machine with sysprep, so you can enter your own username. Some even skip this step, and you get a name like "Owner" or "Sony Owner" or something similar.

My guess is that disc never asks for a key nor does it require any drivers to be installed once you've completed.

 

Same with my VERY old Z505 Sony. It was a "true" install disk, not an image. But it was modified to look for a model in the BIOS and would not continue if it wan't found.

Gary

 

Somehow I think shyter1 and I both know the difference between an image disc and an installer disc.

Gary

 

Okay, very well. I did say in my original post:

Because I know that there are some out there which do not work.

I also said it's probably an image disc because there are far more of those that don't work on other computers than true install discs.

Even so, the keys off of those computers would be able to be installed with a standard OEM disc.