why Vista to XP?

Ok, provided you're willing to excuse my ignorance (and my laziness, since I suppose I could have just googled for the answer ), does the Vista-Capable litigation include the claim that the low-end systems weren't really Vista-capable because they couldn't run the Aero GUI eyecandy, or because they were incapable of running _Vista as an OS at all, even including the Basic version?

 

I can't speak to the specific claims in the litigation, but Vista Capable (as opposed to Vista Ready, or whatever the other designation was) meant that it could run Vista Basic, but lacked the graphics subsystem to run the aero interface included in the other versions of Vista.

In truth, this was always made pretty clear to those who were paying attention to Vista talk and news, but consumers who just read stickers were taken by surprise.

 

Basically MS was able to narrow or limit the scope of the litigation. From this article the Judge said

"The judge also ruled that members of the class cannot claim that Microsoft's advertising induced them to buy PCs that they would not have otherwise bought. They may, however, argue that they paid more than they would have, had the Vista Capable campaign not created artificial demand or increased prices for the machines" You can read that here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080224-judge-greenlights-vista-capable-lawsuit-but-limits-scope.html

To some this means that the plaintiffs have a weak chance for a win on a drawn out trial. Personally, I think MS will still lose. However, MS will probably still lose in terms of negative PR. And at some point, Steve Ballmer is going to take the stand and it could get ugly. Steve denies any involvement on the decision making for the 11th hour change for vista min requirements but I think that is probably not the case. That is a very important change in vista strategy and I'm sure Ballmer knew. As said before, there seems to be a paper trail of emails and MS could look really bad before this is over. Like I said, they would probably be better off settling out of court. Either way, MS will lose in this case whether they settle, lose or win. But personally, I feel MS should pay something out to each and every person that bought a vista "capable machine" since many of those folks probably would have waited for the real vista hardware had they known their machines were insufficient to run the new aero 3d desktop. But as said before, the judge said that the plaintiffs cannot claim people would have waited but rather they paid more then they should.. that was a win for MS.

It will be interesting to see where this case goes. As far as I know, Ballmer should have already testified by now. Not sure whats up with that or if they granted an extension over the holidays.

 

That is the majority! Normal people don't spend hours in forums to read about Vista. They buy it and expect it to run it. PERIOD.

 

Its my opinion that MS did not want to make it clear what capable meant to the average consumer. Sure, they explained their position just enough in the tech channels. Just enough, IMO to satisfy their lawyers and have something ready in case of a lawsuit. But their goal at that time, (latter part of 2006) was to sell more licenses and help Intel clear out their 915 chipsets. Do you think MS would have put a sticker on those machines stating clearly that the hardware would NEVER run aero? This after all the hype and marketing from MS about the wonderful new 3D desktop. No, MS knew they were deceiving their customers and all for short term gain. What I don't understand is why. They must have known this would come back and bite them.. How could MS be so dumb?

The good thing that came out of this was that Vista got bashed from the get go. Even now, when Vista is much more refined, it still suffers in perception. And businesses generally are not migrating to it. So what that means is MS is working very hard in leaning out seven and making it faster, boot quicker and take less resources. Focusing on leaning out code is a really good think and something that MS has not done in many years. Generally MS code just gets bigger and more bloated over time. But I think the whole vista capable debacle forced MS to react in a positive way and we will see a really good OS come out of it. Unfortunately, those poor folks that bought the 915 lame ducks suffered the most and MS should be made to pay something back to those customers.

 

Well, they could. Vista Basic. Sort of like if you have a machine with the minimum system requirements for Call of Duty 5 it'll run, but only in 640x480 low res mode. Not exactly the full experience you're expecting.

But still it was confusing to the masses, and yes misleading. Hence the lawsuit.

 

Hello

I have a an xps 1710 with vista for about a year now, I didn't like it at first but I am now used to it, I would not go backwards. But I do wish the xps laptops had more space on the d drive.

J

 

Create your own partitions.

 

Well, according to the court's order denying Microsoft's motion for a protective order prohibiting the plaintiff's from taking Ballmer's deposition (not quite the same as testifying at trial), that deposition should have been taken no later than about Dec. 21, 2008 (i.e., 30 days from the date of the order itself denying the protective order motion, which date was, if I recall correctly, Nov. 21, 2008).

So, basically, at this point, the plaintiffs' attorneys should have been able to determine whether or not Ballmer knows anything of relevance to the case.

Of course, right now Microsoft's motions for decertification of the class and for summary judgment are coming up for hearing soon, either of which would probably short-circuit the case (since there's not much money to be made in representing single individuals who bought _Vista-capable systems instead of the whole class shebang). If that doesn't happen, I believe the trial itself is currently penciled in for April of 2009.

 

1. Harddisk space isn't a reason, there is plenty to get if you want too. We're soon to be in 2009 not in 1999! So diskspace isn't an issue today.

- Though as a sidenote i'd just like to input that i've vlited my vista home premium sp1 to 6GB installed and ready on the hdd (1.2GB on DVD), but that's just because i threw away everything i didn't need and not because lack of free space. I wouldn't be bothered if it took 40GB, you can use the free space wisely and not save old junk files.

2. This explains it all that it's not vistas fault: "Was messing around with the disk too much" ...

3. Which ones? Or are you making that up?

4. Don't use them or use vlite to create a custom vista disc of your own vista dvd.

5. Wasn't there you say? I guess you didn't have the proper vista distribution then.

6. Colors or such is no problem to change, i guess you're just too lazy or can't read where the settings are, i'd say it's very easy to find where you do this. And you're using linux? embarrassing

7. What filesystem where it? And how did you format it?


8. Are you really using C/C++? I doesn't seem like that when reading your post

9. How much freespace did you have when you shrunk it?

9b. did you just try updating the drivers for the NIC?

 

Why Vista to XP?

1. I've tried everything to avoid clipping in sound when I listen to music and I listen not to MP3's but to FLAC files right from CD.

I'm a subscriber of technet and I found out that Vista has a bug with AC97 soundcards like mine.

2. Therefore I brought my notebook to the helpdesk because of sound issues and they couldn't fix them.

So the problem cannot be solved? I did!

Simply go to the attick whipe that dust of my legal XP home edition and instal it on my laptop. Downloading the newest drivers and it runs so smooth and surprisingly not any sound issue occur, not any.
Also I notice higher framerates in games so why should I go back to Vista? I can do everything my heart need. It boot fast and it shut downs in seconds.

That is why I'm back to XP and what's the matter. Vista is a very good OS and I work more than a year with it (also on my desktop machine) and on my desktop it works like a charm, but on my notebook it did not and the eventviewer of XP is clean, totally clean.

I also find out that my second harddisk in my notebook was the problem of getting back to PIO-mode. Since I removed that harddisk the primairy disc keep at DMA.

I've installed Vista so much times on my laptop, but I'm never capable to fix that tikking in sound and music, but XP don't need any fix.
The sound was also good on PIO-mode when the second harddisk was active.

I'm very sorry and I never say Windows Vista is bad or whatever, but on notebook it won't work nice and I'm not unknown in the world of computers because my start began with the Commodore 64.

Disabling hardware acceleration, switching many drivers and setting, but de clipping won't dissapear whatever I did.
XP need not any fix and when removed that second (bad) disk I ran resetdma.vbs and the primair harddisk who's left stays at DMA, therefore that harddisk rans at PIO mode and resetdma.vbs won't work.


Vista is good if you have a very fast notebook and when you don't encounter that bug officially claimed by Microsoft himself. Then Vista is the best choice and I agreed that.

This is a personal experience!

 

Well, it is in laptops.
But if you want to buy me a 250 GB 2.5" hard disk to show me that it is not, I am here.

The disk was always running. That's "too much". This year when I configured Vista premium on my niece's laptop I had constant blinking on the usb pen. And I had disabled indexing. Who told Vista to mess with my usb? I could not even remove it after selecting "safely remove hardware" (or how it is called). I suppose that was the feature that tried to see if the device was compatible with readyboost, well It could have prompted me before accessing it. What if I were using the laptop for work and were in a hurry (imagine this: copying files rigth before leaving for the airport)?

Well, let me think... shadow copy, indexing, that I've already mentioned, what about UAC (Uncustomizable Access Control)? It either blocked every sort of access for every user or nothing at all. I seem to remember something about Defender but that was more than a year ago, I just remember turning it off.
Talking about the superfetch thingy: does it really have to scan all the partitions? All or nothing.

Very useful when all you have is a recovery disc or a hidden partition image. Thanks.

I guess it is because it was not there, in none of the editions. Ultimate included.

Really?
Will you show me where to store my color profiles without and external program?
I couldn't find the way. Can you?
I can do that in windows 98. I can do that in WinXP. But in Vista, no. You have to change each time every single setting (3d object, border, selected text, highlight... and so on) because you cannot save the frigging profile.

I am all ears.

What about the icons? Can you tell me how to change the icons associated with a particular extension (already used by another program, such as .mod) without resorting to an external program? I can do that in Win85, win98, winxp, Win2000. In Vista, no.

the hd partition were NTFS, format by Vista (C)
the usb pen was FAT32, format by Corsair, or win98se or winxp or whocares.
Don't tell me that Vista is the only OS on Earth requiring you to format USB pen in a specific format with a specific application every time you use it. It would be a most unconvenient thing to do. Especially considering the fact that you'll wipe the information carried by the stick.
Besides, I'd like to know how the FS information can be useful when Win98, WinXP (o and Linux) accessed the pen without a problem.

Very mature comment. Please answer the question I posed earlier and show us all your wisdom.

LOL, the whole disk. I had some 100 GB of disk space with vista taking up the first 20 GB and placing the friggin' MTF files at the 70-80 GB mark. Very funny, M$. I had to download the demo of perfect disk, to do a boot defrag and moving the darn files. It took time, and time is money.

I would have loved to. But, you see, I found it slightly difficult to do, without the internet connection.

 

Most of your complaints can be fixed without additional programs.

1) Only Ultimate is 20 GB. All other versions are smaller. Plus, most laptops come with at least 250 GB, so 20 GB is less than 10% ...
2) No clue what you said there
3) Not specific
4) Control Panel > Programs & Features > Turn Windows features on and off
5) Speech recognition exists in Vista Ultimate, I dunno about other versions. If your installation was 20 GB then it should be Ultimate.
6) To change Windows colours: right-click desktop > Personalize > Windows Colours And Themes or Theme

For Office 2007, click Office button > Options > Popular > Colour Scheme
7) This could be many problems ... old USB drive, old USB port, not using USB 2.0, garbage hardware ... For my Vista laptop, I can move files to and from my San Disk 4 GB USB at about 20 MB/s (megabytes)
8) Get Dev C++, I use that for C/C++ on Vista since grade 11 and it works fine
9) Ice your cake too. I partitioned my hard drive into 3 partitions: Windows, Media, and Work. No problems there.

All this could be solved with Google or just playing around. The hardware issues you complain of are mainly because Vista released about 6 years after XP ... Hardware tend to improve over a time period of 6 years. Way to give an OS a chance before judging it eh?

 

Ok; it seems to me there are some hotheads in here who could use a little cooling off. Why doesn't everyone close the laptop, go find some nice cold bubbly, and have a ...

Happy New Year!​

...the pointless bickering can wait.

 

I enjoy Vista, and plan on having it on my next notebook.

I just don't see how people are can say Vista is slower than XP. In EVERY experience I've had with Vista, it's much easier to use, much more stable, and is as fast as if not faster than in many situations as XP.

Generally if there's a problem with Vista, it's user-caused, or the software being used WITHIN Vista is just poorly written. One example being drivers.

With Vista being around for quite some time now, those problems are, for the most part, solved; save the user-created problems.

 

Because some people have a false belief that Vista is bad, honestly Vista is THE best OS I have used and I have used it for almost 1.5 years now.

 

Prove it. Just saying it does not constitute proof.
Let's see:

Vista Home Premium on my niece's laptop: it takes some 22 GB even after moving the user folders to another partition. It can be shrunk, granted but requires tweaking and you have to kiss goodbye many features (that could be useful if they were not ALL or NOTHING).

You can't have shadow copies for files of a single partition (or better yet of a single or a selection of folders). You either have to enable it for the WHOLE drive or NOTHING at all. Same goes for search indexing. You have to enable it for WHOLE partitions, not for single folders. It uses up a lot more resources that way.

LOL. Windows search, shadow copies and UAC are not specific?

Read again: I wrote *uninstall*. I don't see why I have to waste disk space and resources to keep or worse run programs that in the best case I do not use and in the worst case are intrusive. Read Windows Media Player EULA to get a glimpse at what intrusive means (unless they changed it in the last year or so).

There is speech recognition in Vista business. Too bad it's in English only (other language were "promised to come soon", like Santa Claus on xmas eve) and it's plain useless if your GUI is in another language.
Incidentally, after I had tried to get Linux instead od a M$ O$, I tried to get XP instead of Vista, not possible sorry said DELL. Then I also tried to get a US Vista instead of that sold in my country. But no. If I wanted that laptop not only I had to buy Vista but I could not even have it in another language.

 

Windows Vista is amazing. People who had 50 year old printers were the people complaining. and who had 512mb of ram. Vista is faster then xp and its easier to find things. The search in xp is so bad its ridiculous. vista search bar is nice.

 

Even my sig has a little good on Vista - most people around that say it's bad really know nothing about it or computers. There are legitimate complaints, like the requirements. But when it comes to being an advanced, next-gen OS, right now it is excellent. The UI is much more intuitive than XP, while not losing any complexity. Sort of like Office 2007 - it has a much better interface for a fresh user than 2003, but for someone that has used Office since 97 it takes time to get used to.

Like someone said above (sorry for not quoting) - there is no real reason to upgrade from XP or downgrade from Vista.
Though if you have tons of RAM, 64-bit Vista is worth going up from XP. It knows how to handle RAM better, the same thing was with 98. It could only handle a set amount of RAM efficiently, can't remember how much it was...

Windows 7 will be worth un upgrade from both XP and Vista.

 

Looks like the pointless bickering continues...thread closed.

If you are interested in Vista, then take a look at the stickies to get the most performance(and usability) out of it(try out vista for a few weeks before making any judgments). If Vista doesn't work for your needs or doesn't satisfy you and you want to try XP, then make sure that your laptop manufacturer supports it with drivers or make sure that the drivers are readily available from a third party source.

If you want to try Linux...then get out of forum ( and go to the linux sub-forum)