[Alienware Refresh] Initial thoughts and impressions? Hit or a Miss?

I agree...I think it's a typo.

::iunlock::

 

i asked for TDP on twitch, and a nvidia representative say that it was confidential XD

 

HaHa
Maybe they have something to hide? LOL
ODM/OEM's can put the maximum TDP whatever they want. But @Prema said Clevo have 190w in their vbios. This will be unlocked with a mod And we will later see what TDP other OEM' will use for their graphics. Just Run stock graphics in bench and monitor the power usage with Hwinfo. I remember when I purchased Aw17 with 780m. DELLIENWARE crippled the graphics TDP. Nearly 10 months later this was fixed by the Dell Morons. We have to see what mess they created this time. You never know with Azor And *if* Dell have used gddr5 for 1080... I mean Azor should find another job fastest possible!!

 

But Azor is the perfect fit for the job description.

 

Maybe therefore he still have the job I hope he doesn't push out a Mickey. Put in gddr5X with next upgrade and let the Guinea pig experience gddr5 first Maybe he hope the Guinea pigs will upgrade for faster VRAM? Two sales within 1 year Yeah, You can make money on less than this

 

Repeat of 980M w/ 4GB vs 980M w/ 8GB? Gosh I hope not...what a nightmare.

::iunlock::

 

If so, send a big Thanks to @Alienware-Frank I remember the mess with 8 vs 4GB vram. Dell tech over the world said NO. The upgraded AW machines haven't graphics with 8GB vram, Although this was written in large letters on Dell's sales page It turned out that it was a big mess with their motherboard on their factory.
If Dell begins with GDDR5 now for the first new model, then can Dell promote better VRAM for the next model

 

Except Nvidia did make two versions of 980M, one with 4GB and 8GB. This time, there are only one version of mobile 1080. So what are the chance of Alienware creating their own version of 1080 and provide their own version of driver since it won't be officially supported by Nvidia? Pretty much nil. We can just end this argument since it is becoming only a sauce for pointless bashing lol.

 

Good point and I did mention in a reply, that it's likely a typo due to the reasons you've stated.

No brand loyalty here. I'm loyal to results. Hoping the new cooling design proves to be worthy.

::iunlock::

 

Stop the useless bashing Papusan..........

Why are you even in this topic. You have no interest in machines with soldered hardware. You only bring bad baseless assumptions into this topic. Let people discuss the new machines in a civilised manner based on actual facts. Let people enjoy the machines they do like instead of constantly bashing it.

 

The polls are looking interesting. I'm thinking...even if has some temp issues, I would find it a fun challenge to get it as cool as possible.

Here's what I've found interesting. Looking at the heat sinks of the 775DM3 (6700K/1080) and the New AW (6820HK/1080), and keeping in mind the size of the plate (happens to be much larger) on the AW, could it (having less pipes on the AW) be relative in respect to the AW (6820HK) having a lower / half of the TDP than the desktop (6700K)? I hope that makes sense haha...

775DM3


AW17R4

 

I agree. If you have nothing else to add to the conversation besides constantly bringing up the fact that Clevo/Sager machines are "better" because they are MXM, please feel free to keep your opinions to yourself (along with the other MXM trolls on these forums). There are many different laptops out there that fit different users and not every one is looking for the same thing. We get it, you don't like Alienware. Enough said.

 

Thos AW heatsinks extend quite a bit too the back making them twice as long as the current heatsinks. I think it will could pretty well. I like the unpainted heatsinks and heatpipes too. Make it look more industrial and high end. The short heatpipes should be efficient in this setup.

The whole overall construction looks well done. Maybe not the easiest for maintenance. But it looks high quality. Not many wasted spaces.

 

I too hope that they keep the heat sinks bare copper. - And the size of that heat sink eh? That's a lot of surface area.

 

The spanish video in which the guy compares the new AW models with the old is very interesting, I'm surprised they even allowed him to disassembled one of the new models since it's still prototype. I wish the video was in english

the video for those who are not aware

 

Yea that's a great video, saw that yesterday. He mainly goes over the differences, but what was interesting was when he was talking about the upgradability and the m.2 slots...they might be both 4x? He talks so fast lol...I hope they keep the heat sinks copper...

How about the size of that heat sink plate eh? Quite big for what it is...I hope the engineering that went into this pays off...because that would be sweet.

 

Posted this vide as well. you can turn on auto translate. It appears that the bottom lid, that black piece around the cooling and top lid are all metal.

 

The heatsinks definitely look very premium and capable, even the fan casing itself is copper. I hope they don't paint it black in the release model.

The 17R3 have a copper heatsink for the M2 as well, but it's not as huge as the one shown in the new model

eh I never really bothered with these auto translate features, usually they're more of a miss than hit, unless it's an added caption by the uploader.

 

Yes I agree, that unpainted copper gives it a much beefier look.

I also favor the use of all the metal...

 

Seems like you guys are having daydreams under a rock.., go and read 10xx series thread in the subforum and you'll get an idea on how Pascal works (power density, efficiency) and how hot it is and how OEMs do businesses, It's not about MXM or not It's about tuning, efficiency & sBIOS
(This is where MXM trumps over the BGA stuff )

And here's some info from NBR expert D2Ultima with the new design, Yes it seems well done but only time will tell.

After I updated him about that machine was an AW15.

 

What do you suggest purchasing then?
Ima go grab a Clevo, which I was about to do. Oh wait, the thermals on those currently are ridiculous. Not to mention they stabbed owners in the back when it comes to upgradability.
So let me then consider Asus.... umm no. MSi perhaps? pass.

So really it comes down to is AW vs Clevo. With the thermals going on with MXM clevos at the moment, and lack there of 120hz panels I'm leaning more towards AW.
To be fair perhaps by the time the AW(s) come out there might be some of those same panels in Clevos. One can hope for the 1440p 120hz panel in the Clevo, that would be awesome.

However still there is the issue of thermals. Much of the performance and thermal info and comparison is speculation. Regardless so long as the 1080 is excuted properly in the AW it may perform slightly less then the MXM counter part but it will not be as large of a performace gap as previous mobile variants.
So long as Dell doesnt screw up the power system or the BIOS(s) there is a chance this "BGA" could a worthy contender. I dont mean performance for performance I mean total package. I mean for me, at the end of the day, if the AW has a better package (better panels, better keyboard, better warranty, better chassis, better look) but performs close to Clevo but still slightly lower. I would then want the AW. Why wouldnt I?

Anyways, only time will tell and no one can say yay or nay untill the systems are out and able to be tested. Heck, when the DM2/DM3 came out everyone was ordering and going nuts. Then the tests came back. You now have some people sticking with the DM1, some people buying desktops, and some people sticking with their old AW lappies.
There are pros and cons for every system.

 

....and not to mention that a lot of Clevo orders have been returned and/or cancelled due to thermal issues? 90C on the 1080 / 100C 1080SLI out of the box? Lack of panel options? No thanks, although one ordered for the temp challenge. At this given time at least. Perhaps a little LM magic and some realignment of the warped heat sinks will help...some 775 owners have with traditional paste and it has helped.

At any rate, @DeeX, you've outlined pretty much every point that can be pointed out at this given time. Lets just hope Dell doesn't fluff up the BIOS and all that jazz. Lets hope that the cooling system lives up to the bold statements made by sleazy Azor....at this point who knows.

Anyone can make speculations @Ashtrix, but at this point we simply do not know. It's nothing but...i think-he thinks-she thinks-we think etc...

It would be a daydream under a rock to think that 90C is acceptable temps for a 1080 or 100C out of the box for a 1080SLI. Just saying....SLI or Single, doesn't matter as that's not the point.

The point is, releasing a machine knowing that it'll run 90C, heck 100C to be more exact out of the box is called, "unreasonable." - To be fair, what will also be unreasonable is if AW comes out of the box with a 1080 so gimped that it's basically turned into a 1060.

So here's what "I-think."

It's either the new cooling design is functional to where it can handle the 1080 to keep it at a reasonable temp -OR- it'll be a complete flop with a crippled 1080.

However, what's worse, a 1080 that can't stay cool or a crippled 1080 that can stay cool and still perform without throttling?

OR

A dying breed (mxm) with a questionable upgradability and no future or a decent performing bga machine?

 

wise said old man couldnt add anything further to what u both said!

 

Just to add...
Those high 80c to 90c were when Wingnut undervolted. They were hitting 100c at stock voltage.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

here is an asus holding 82-83°C on gpu (1080)
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-G800VI-Notebook-Preview.171564.0.html

 

Thanks @judal57…So if Asus can do this, then assuming AW will have a better cooling system / engineering….it could end up better.

Only time will tell....

If history repeats itself and we base things on the track record so far, we may be able to squash the GDDR5 curiosity as the Asus ROG G800VI's (6820HK) GPUZ shows it listed as GDDR5 X.



There are too many obstacles that would present itself as being over the top for AW to pull off such a move like this (although with Azor and alike...anything is possible, but that's not the point here), because not only would it be crazy for AW to think about a stunt like this to save on cost, but what it would take on NVIDIA's side as well is a whole another story in itself.

 

Just to add more, As I said It's all about tuning & Performance out of box plus It's not AW vs Clevo or anything here in this thread, May seem like that since my nature is more being towards the sockets..But I'm just posting some facts about Pascal, and how HOT it is, If you want cool as Maxwell that's not going to happen. Thus the assumptions based off many parameters since they are so late to come what else can we do apart from extrapolating the given information..

 

Fair enough and good points. Even based on sleazy Azor himself, it's not beneath AW to pull a fast one on anything pretty much. For all we know they could release it with a pink keyboard with hello kitty stickers. Azor approved.

But yes, no brand loyalty here. There's a lot of things that I like about the new AW refresh and hopeful about the new cooling system. Whether any of what is being claimed holds to be true or not, we'll know soon enough.

If AW pulls a fast one, I'll be the first to let my wallet speak for itself in pressing, "submit order," on my 775 config all the while letting everyone know not to spend dtr prices on a gimped machine.

But...what if AW pulls through? That'd mark a new holiday.

::iunlock::

 

Lol.
I'm thinking the AW cooling but with 1080 and AW17 we didn't see any internals yet, If they fail ( I'm worried about the fans since MSI and Clevo has the 12v fast fans, Massive Heatsinks and Pascal needs It while AW went more thin this time, hope they got vapor chamber too.. Also yeah you got the Optimus MUX back since they cannot get a 7hrs off a 1070 without optimus or GSync with optimus) then worthless to invest in the 1080 option. So maybe the 1070 on 15 could pull it off considering the MSI alternatives being gimped with lack of options (GT72VR) and the better machine GT73VR being too overpriced but yeah that's got the SLI option but the CPU unlocking might be issue. Also there's this ASUS G752VS which boasts the Vapor Chamber cooling, no Idea on how it does have to look at that Mobius, John's thread. Yeah the tuning is super important here - 6820HK 4.1GHz off 1.4v on ASUS... I mean ASUS the corp who makes Rampage stuff and taking advantage of the ignorance of the consumers, slap those anti consumer stickers (MSI / ASUS, can gth)

So many things to weigh in for different use cases, End choice is left for the user despite all the chat here on NBR but have to be smart enough to get things going in a better pace & being productive.

Spoiler: My choice

As for me If I'd purchase a new Pascal hardware, I'd go with the 775DM since 870DM is too expensive plus the 2x 1080s is overkill for my 1080p gaming also too much heat there, Clevo (Prema partner, not at all expensive a couple of bucks is fine given the full fledged tweak choice) since the sBIOS is not restricted to punish the end user's UX, Tuning. But yeah that's me again going for power / choice rather than looks..Even the thought of the M18x R2 type Alienware machine powered by pascal gives such a good feel, too bad to see Azor headed this path..Yeah a bit of Clevo here again..Oh yeah If Kaby supports 100 series then we can see a clear winner here

 

What a striking resemblance to ROG!

I hate the "new cooling design." Why? Because it's hardly new at all. Now that EVERYTHING is soldered, I'll probably pass. However, it's nice to see 120Hz G-SYNC displays.

 

It doesnt look like asus machines at all. Dell even had a similar approach in the past by the way.

 

You're right, they look nothing alike... (SARCASM ALERT!)

Spoiler: Images

I'm not suggesting they look bad... I'm just pointing out the fact that Alienware has become nothing but "just another gaming laptop" on the market. They used to dominate an entire niche. Now? I don't know what they are. Sure as hell isn't the good ol' Alienware I once knew.

 

I honestly agree with rinneh that it looks more like the old Dell notebooks with forward hinges than the Asus ones... Although the cooling solution itself is probably more aligned with the Asus, since the Dell notebooks were business and multimedia oriented. I still spot differences, such as the side intakes that seem absent form this Asus picture, at least.

As for Alienware not being dominant anymore, that's true. They had a lot of misteps... Time will tell if they can get back on top or not. They still have some traditional attributes like build quality and waranty, at least.

 

even Aorus uses the same design principle

 

Now this one looks much more similar to the new Alienware!

Asus has a much more unique (and also tackier ) design.

 

The GM's and CEO's all gather at the same after hours meet to gamble, drink, etc. while discussing streamlining production by using the same manufacturers to decrease overhead.

 

I won't lie.

I bought my 15R2 no more than 2 months ago and well i'm some what miffed that AW actually released something quickly.
However on the flip side I will not be buying another one, not in my current mood.

I've had light bleed issue because of the terrible LCD bezel design.
I've had the soft touch finish rub off on the corners
I've had the touchpad buttons be odd
I've noticed the Alienware logo is unevenly lit

While mine runs cool at 65c under load, and the performance is nothing to sniff at, DELL warranty is rubbish in the UK. I ended up with more issues from there interferring fixing an issue they say it unfixable yet they still tried ?

I have a Clevo sitting to my left and while the 15R2 looks amazing compared to it, it's 5 years old still works and has none of these issues, after 5 solid years use.

If it wasn't obvious already I'll be getting another Clevo when the time comes.
Don't get me wrong I'm not selling this one, but i'll be very hesitant about buying again from DELL.

 

In the UK, where does one obtain a Clevo?

 

HIDevolution ships to UK. We also have PCSpecialist, XMG, and Eurocom

 

PC Specialist

PC Specialist
Novatech
Xotic PC

There are a few others who will import to the UK but their the main 3 that come to mind.

 

Alienware gets away with it fairly easily... The illusion of a high-performance gaming laptop because of its design.

Your 15 R2 is basically an XPS 15 with a dGPU (and some other minor changes) in disguise. It's all about reducing costs by streamlining production with Dell. It's understandable to a certain point, but Alienware is a niche product and shouldn't be part of the traditional Dell crap they sell to the "traditional" consumer. It never used to be.

 

Well the only thing which sold it to me was the battery life.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

Anything that bypasses VAT?

 

As I've been mentioning, for those truly needing real power (I'm not talking about gamers or even the so called 'hard' core gamer, whatever that means *roll eyes*), the 775 or 870 would obviously be the better choice. If AW comes out of the gate with DTR prices, then the choice is even more clear. The truth is, for most people the AW is more than enough and most people end up overbuying hardware compared to what they truly need.

@ZeneticX, posted these in another thread, but it seems to me that Dell is copying Dell...





Who copied who?

Answer: Doesn't matter. All we care about is function over form at this point with the 1080's.

 

Perhaps that's all you care about. Not in the collective "we" this time, sorry. I care about all of the above.

Of course, I am a veteran Alienware owner. New customers probably don't even know about the old Alienware; the real Alienware.

 

I agree with the traditional attributes you've listed. At least the build quality and warranty is there. Now they just need to fire Azor and everyone like him at corporate, because he's nothing but a piece of rubbish and a liar that's killing the brand.

Huh? So I provide concrete evidence to squash any misunderstandings and you get bent up over it?

No it's not about "I," LOL...hence this being a forum and a thread where, "WE," share things haha...

Don't take it so personal.

That does look more rigid than the new AW, but the new AW looks more mature in my opinion. As long as this trend evolves into actually providing function...please let it be so.

One thing about the AW that makes a lot of us optimistic is the weight of it eh? Please let that mean something lol...if the 17" ends up cooling the 1080 to keep it around 80C and or below, it'll put a lot of other OEM's to shame and prove the new design language and engineering to be worthy for it to be praised, because with a little repaste (LM) magic...I'm confident that the temps can be dropped some more into very respectable territory. Of course this is a 1080 with a higher TDP (maybe not? ), but I'm pretty confident that there will be room for improvement.

 

I agree that Dell now is all about "reducing costs and streamlining production", which is a rather sharp detour from their origins as sellers of very customizable products. However, saying it is basically a XPS is oversimplifying. The design and components do make the difference and turn it into a "high-performance gaming laptop". Just because it is BGA and isn't "the best" at it doesn't mean it isn't part of that category.
The motherboards might be somewhat similar due to the Intel Skylake options, but they still contain very different ports and such. The XPS can have a 960m GPU, but the entire build is designed for portability and lightweight while the Alienware has much higher performance specs and cooling, seeking lighter weight in very different ways and with different constraints.

Besides, nowadays the gamer and premium notebooks (like the XPS) are both very niche products, while the "traditional" consumer notebook is now ULV with no dGPU (now that is truly sad )... AW and XPS are sufficiently high performance for most of those, others need to look at desktop replacements with desktop CPUs, SLI GPUs or even workstations with Intel Xeon CPUs.

 

I didn't take it personally.

 

Ok all good.

By the way I too agree about Dell in how they should keep the AW separate from the regular consumer Dell product line. In way they are, but in another way there's a lot of sleazy Azor thing going on... What they need to do is to bring back a true dtr variant like the old 18".

 

Mr. Fox or Cass I don't remember who said but Azor was since the inception of the brand the original members of the Alienware founders crew. He knows everything that we said in past regarding the EC, Secure Flash, Fan tables and Power limits on AW17 Ranger and AW18 Viking machines even the Voyager has some CPU power limit the Ranger has some other limit too, Avenger Mark II is by far most versatile machine ever made across all brands, with 0 strings attached, Can you be.eive that with the Viking Haswell they locked the 330x2 PSU to single 33oW PSU, that's absolutely Insane.

I remember Papusan said that Fan tables and CPU turbo power were fixed after a long time along with the borked fan tables from the last sBIOS update. But thanks to HWInfo we can max out the fans and control the fans but again they locked the granular control mechanism like that on M17x R4 and M18x R2 with EC restrictions, man they gimped out on fan CFMs on the Ranger, I'm running with M17x R4 CPU and GPU fans here, others are running with M14x R2 CPU fan with a bit of dremel on the CPU Fan. And everything was posted and brought to the notice of Dell at Ideastrom & Mr. Fox tried numerous times at multiple instances and even AMA Reddit PR feat.

Everything seems to lost in vain to the people who were expecting the old brand post Privatization (Alienware 1996-2013, the last real NBs but heavily cripped by sBIOS)... Mt. Dell BGA Hellforge is so powerful it sees all but does nothing LOL.