[Alienware Refresh] Initial thoughts and impressions? Hit or a Miss?

The fan tables were never fixed bro!!
Its gimped CFMs on the Ranger... + that the fans are running at maximum 85%. Even with Hwinfo!! Fans run only on max during flash of the bios . Hwinfo saves barely this Aw model from disaster. It went almost a year before gtx780m got increased TDP trigger point. In short the model was crippled from the beginning. Same as AW18 and 14. And all know what the next step went.

 

New AW17 1080 will be 180W and GDDR5 X

https://www.twitch.tv/alienware/v/87746534

@ 4:46:26 …mentions 180W

(Thanks @DeeX for the heads up and find.)

Shall we put the TDP to rest now people? I'm waiting for the excuses....this shall be interesting....

Bonus: Check out 4:50:05 ...ouch... game on...

 

Unless Kaby lake it's extremely power efficient I can't see it.

The pascal series draws more watts than Maxwell.

980m was about 88w
1080 was about 115w

Additionally the 1070 has gddr5 not gddr5x only the 1080 has that.

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Correct as it was mentioned in the video, 1060 and 1070 are GDDR5 and the 1080 is GDDR5 X.

 

Sorry I didn't watch it on full on the train, poor reception. I was just reading the white papers

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All good mate. Just updated the OP with some more info...enjoy...

 

More info on the new Alienware

"THE NEW ALIENWARE 17 WAS DESIGNED WITH GREATER THERMAL MAXIMUMS IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE LATEST GRAPHICS ENGINES REQUIRING AS MUCH AS A HEFTY 180W OF INTERNAL DEDICATED POWER. THIS MEANS SUPPORTING GRAPHICS CARDS LIKE THE NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1080 WITH GDDR5X MEMORY AT FULL POWER. (COMING LATE 2017)"
https://na.alienwarearena.com/products/new-alienware-17

 

Hefty 180Watt??

Really? If they give a damn 180 watt power supply with an alienware 17 along with the GTX 1080, I will give up on alienware.
The 180 watt PSU wasn't even enough to run my alienware 15 with the i7 4700hq and the 980M

And if they again opt for hybrid bios's, that's even worse.

 

I'm with you on that one I have a 240w and under load sometimes the battery gets a little munched on

No way 180w will manage.

Perhaps I was right buying the last of the 15R2, at least critical bugs are sorted out.

This sound like a long road before the 15r3 (if you will) is ready.

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They already exchg the 180w for 240w after people complained about 180w being insufficient
but still 240w won't be enough for a 180w tdp GTX1080 + 6820HK, we will see whether they stick to that or bring back the 300w+ bricks

 

I'm not sure how you read that but that pretty much says 180W JUST for the GPU. It'll come with at least a 330W PSU to cover that and the rest of the system....

 

Interesting infos

 

lol not a 180w PSU the GPU itself is a 180w card. For example the 980m was around 100w.

 

88w to be accurate

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So, essentially, they added more metal and such, and as a result, they created a heavier laptop.
That explains the weight.
Also, when did that page pop up? I'm a moderator over there, and even I was surprised to see it come out of nowhere.

 

I'm sure it will be the first proper 4k laptop, but at what cost and will the battery last as long and will it weigh a metric tonne when mobile.

I might consider the revision version when it happens, but I'll skip mk 1

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I agree with the statement that the 15 R2 and 17 R3 have solved most critical issues present on the 15 R1 and 17 R2. It is often worth it to wait for the second iteration of a major design change for the manufacturers to improve several key characteristics. It's not an excuse for companies to launch crippled products, but consumers need to beware... The tech industry as a whole is far too reliant on a yearly release schedule and does not care about releasing unfinished products.

 

Well I'm actually starting to seeth over the issue of the current 15r2 and the new one.

There is no mention of the new products on their sites and still charging full whack.

Yet the issues I have there wasn't any real help a pissy 15 pound voucher is all its worth.

I would have sent the bastard thing back if I knew the new model was coming out.

God I'm pissed and confused.

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240W is not sufficient for using 1080. Will Dell use 330w psu this time? Have this been confirmed by Dell or Azor? And a wimpy 240w psu is barely sufficient for use with 1070 if you can manage overclock on cpu/gpu.

 

Well to be honest rumours of Pascal laptops releasing is everywhere from June onwards. And right after the release last month, Alienware said they are gonna release the new models at PAX west

 

We'll see whether they repeat the 180w mistake

 

You mean use of 240w this time with 1080? Worst case now is 240w with factory installed Hybrid bios. Last time came hybrid bios afterwards!!

 

Yes during the announcement even I was speaking to some of the reps via chat and they confirmed the PSU would be higher then 240 watt. They will be clarifying the exact wattage this week.
However I would assume it would be a 330w as other systems in the past have used this. (AW 18)

 

Yeah, Most likely a psu bigger than 240w. But will Dell use the much bigger 330w or design a thinner psu with lower power than 300w? And yes, It's cheaper if they will use the old 330w, but a big psu together with their new thinner laptop look strange. At least if everything shall be in same design And Dell have now experience with use of Hybrid bios!!

 

Ow okay thanks for the clarification, I was tripping over this. I was really like NOPE Asus it is then. XD

 

Hate myself right now, but if the Alienware 13 is OLED and G-SYNC certified, with a full-pledged GTX 1060 and a quad-core processor, I'll sell my crappy Zenbook and buy it.

AW 13 & desktop build. That's where I'm headed! This Zenbook is so limited.

 

I think i advised to send it back and some others as well just after you received the laptop because pascal was around the corner.

 

OLED and GTX 1060 is confirmed. Not sure about G Sync and quad core processor

 

Any ULV dual-core will bottleneck that 1060, so I hope they have some sort of quad-core. I know Kaby Lake ULV's are coming out soon.

G-SYNC is so common now, I'd be surprised if they didn't have it.

 

FOr once just wait and see instead of making assumptions.

 

End of the month can't come fast enough, we need reviews!

 

G-SYNC is common yes, amongst LCD now. But a G-SYNC OLED panel... not sure if we've seen any of those, even in monitors

 

Well I didn't know alright.

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i like the new power bootn location on the new aw 13 model ... looks really sexy

 

I think it looks horribly out of place there. If it were in line with the top keys and there were some macro keys below it, it would be somewhat acceptable.

Looks as though the designers were like, "Oh snap, we forgot about the power button! QUICK, throw it in the corner!"

 

Bet the chassis cracks there too

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Anything can happen as we know from their track record, however, with the emphasis so far on what they've been pushing with the 1080, design, cooling etc...I doubt AW will release a 240W with the 1080 that' drinks up 180W. That would be a little too unrealistic, although they have done dumb things before, but this time around...maybe lesson learned with the whole PSU fiasco...

 

I find it odd that Dellienware not already come out with what they want to use this time. This question is not less interesting, due to previous scandal (180w with Gtx980m, followed by introduction of Hybrid Bios). If Dell don't want to talk about this... I understand it very well Not that Dell will most likely use a psu that is more powerful than a wimpy 240W. But be reminded the previous blistering. Mr.Azor would obviously not be confronted with the 180W mistake on their first Echo models..

 

LOL right?...first it was all out ranting about the 1080 and it being a heavily crippled power wise in the new AW, then to find out that it's rated at 180W....I would have paid to see the look on some peoples faces. Now it's becoming, "what else can I rant about? Placement of the power button? Logo? etc..." I mean come on haha, save the embarrassment.

It's okay to be constructively criticizing things, heck we do it all the time, but it's different when the intent behind making certain remarks are solely for the purpose of trying to bash on a product/company, that now has the same Pascal power as everyone else does across the line. - Denial can also be a symptom.

At any rate, I'm really liking the idea that the new 17" is much heavier. Bring on the metal right? Oh BTW the OP has been updated with some more info.

 

If it gives space for the 13 to have a proper touch pad and buttons, I don't care where it is (as long it's not on the palm rest).

 

Not too shabby... I mean a power button is like on the last of my priorities LOL. I have a feeling that the 13" will be a pretty strong contender, mainly having the advantage on the cooling side.

I was almost going to say in my last post....as long as they don't pull a clap on / clap off feature LOL....like the (IMO) stupid tobii crap they put on the new line...I wish that was an option...I get it...some people will use it, but for those that have ZERO intention of using that, it's such a wasted space and option....I'd rather have been able to save on the cost of that add-on to put towards something like aftermarket RAM. Eh...oh well...who knows I may end up liking it...never say never...fair enough (speaking to myself.)

 

Don't forget that it was Mr. Azor himself who said ...one-hundred-and-fifty watts
http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...we-don-t-feel-that-benefit-right-now--1327167

 

Yea well...we'll know when we know. I still wouldn't put it beneath AW and Sleaze Ball Azor to pull such a move, but who knows...

So what if, it is 180W on the 1080?

What do you think about that?

You should watch the part in the video when they take a crack at Clevo/Rebrands...I thought that was pretty funny, but more so, it makes it even more bold that the claims they (AW) are putting out has more to lose in terms of credibility as a whole (company wise).

Watch at: @ 4:50:10

"Because these systems are not like third party systems, that we just rebrand, throw our name on, That's LAZY. That's LAZY Design. . . We take a lot of pride in designing these things. These are ground up designs because there's a lot of heart behind it. There's a lot of thought that goes into these things, these are NOT LAZY REBRANDS."

Ok so my thoughts:
We'll you can't really argue that the design of the AW is far more superior than a Clevo/Rebrands. I think having LGA and MXM is great, but slapping that into a plastic box and cramming everything in just to make it fit is not good engineering.

Take for example the major heat issues out the box the DM2 and DM3's are having. 90C's and even 100C's out of the box? Do you call that good engineering?

What about the warped heat sinks on a $3K+ machines. You call that quality? That's considered good engineering? Let alone these heat sinks can't even seem to be able to do the job, regardless of how big they are....what counts is if the hardware can do its job...some will refer it to as quality/results over quantity.

I still find this interesting... Post #122

And I'll repeat in saying...

It's either the new cooling design is functional to where it can handle the 1080 (180W) to keep it at a reasonable temp -OR- it'll be a complete flop with a crippled 1080.

However, what's worse, a 1080 that can't stay cool or a crippled 1080 that can stay cool and still perform without throttling?

OR

A dying breed (mxm) with a questionable upgradability and no future or a decent performing bga machine?

---

And just in case you missed the updates in the OP:

Highlights:

* New AW17 1080 will be 180W and GDDR5 X

https://www.twitch.tv/alienware/v/87746534
(Thanks @DeeX for the heads up.)

@ 4:46:26 …mentions 180W

@ 4:49:33 ...worth watching it from here, lol...

@ 4:50:10 ...takes a crack at Clevo...I love DTR's, but what he says is true. No heart behind Clevo's design, just a bunch of rebranded, rebrands.

* Full on Copper heat sinks and heat pipes.

* Back of display is metal.

* Bottom of laptop is metal, anodized aluminum.

* Laptop is very rigid. Watch them try bending it...it's solid as a rock. Lots of metal.

* Keys on the keyboard are guaranteed and rated at 10 Million strokes.

* Keys have a longer 2.2mm travel length.

* N Key roll over technology. Able to register multiple keystrokes.

* 19 Total Macro Keys. More added near the Num pad side on the 17".

* The back plate of keyboard is steel enforced, all metal.

* Bottom and Side air intakes.

* Designed to keep the heat toward the rear and away from the front areas, keyboard / palm rest.

 

But, Clevo isn't a re-brand. Re-brand snarks are more towards those who add their branding, like OriginPC.

 

Correct, but the point being made is clear and those that know, know exactly what it's referencing to. Because Clevo is the main company that holds the patent to the design, people who buy the rebrands usually refer to them by the Clevo model as that has become a norm when referencing these machines.

"Clevo is an OEM/ODM computer manufacturer which exclusively produces laptop computers. They manufacture and sell complete laptops under their own brand; they also sell laptop chassis to other OEMs who build laptops on the chassis, often customized for each customer. Sager Notebook Computers is one of several OEMs which build on Clevo chassis."

Yes, Sleaze ball Azor did say this:

What kind of performance issues would you run into if you attempted to squeeze a 1080 into a chassis without sufficient headroom for cooling?

What you may find is that some companies may take the 1080 chip and underclock it, then put it into a product and advertise it as a standard 1080. That's not something we're doing with these notebooks - they operate at the full operating criteria for the CPU and GPU, which is one-hundred-and-fifty watts. If we ever put a lower performing version of any graphics card in our product, we would clearly highlight that with the customer so that they knew upfront.

Either:

1.) He make a mistake and quoted the wrong number.

2.) They didn't alter the clocks, but would tone down the TDP to 150W? Doesn't make any sense already...

Couple key points:

" That's not something we're doing with these notebooks - they operate at the full operating criteria for the CPU and GPU."

Full operating criteria means, just that. Nothing altered. Therefore, I'm leaning toward him saying 150W being a mistake. But then again, who knows....

 

With a fully 1080 should Aw17R4 get on par with this Firestrike score http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9988160

Or minimum this http://www.3dmark.com/fs/10044374

 

If it's truly not gimped, then the score should be on par with that Firestrike score. Give or take. But the bottom line is, whether it's on par or slightly below it, with a powerful of a beast like the 1080, it will make ZERO real world difference in REAL WORLD practicality in normal usage and gaming.

Benchmarks are fun, but it doesn't tell or define the whole story. Let alone when benches are done under artificial circumstances / non real world scenarios. There is ZERO practicality in that.

You also have to keep in mind that it's not practical in the first place to be comparing a DTR vs a Gaming Laptop, although now that it shares the same GPU, they are still in different classes. However now the Gaming Laptops with the same GPU and respectable mobile 6820HK, the gap is very slim when it comes to normal real world usage and in most cases there is no gap. Even with CPU intensive tasks, of course the 6700K, DUH, but the 6820HK is no slouch and can handle its own.

 

He also said "the full operating criteria" clearly his own statement contradicts itself. Frank is strictly a business person and often says some seemingly misinformed things lol.
However so far Eddy Goyanes who is well known and is the Marketing Coordinator at AW and Mark Casparian who is head of R&D at AW both have said in a live chat that it was going to be 180 watts.
This backs up the first part of Frank's statement "the full operating criteria".

 

Nice thread here looking forward to read reviews of the new alienware.
But its enoying to read in every new thread the same **** from the bga haters... yes bga is ****..we know it now...stop repeating it every second post and just leave those threads, if you just want to flame and hate. Mxm ...bga...every technology have its pros and cons... be happy with your clevo and let the other users be happy with their ,,bga ****book,, ok?

 

Glad you're enjoying the thread.

The thing is, the bashing of bga's are occurring because the current DTR owners are in denial and feel screwed over by Clevo. If you visit the Clevo threads you'll clearly see a lot of folks who are heated over the fact that they can't even upgrade their current DTR along with heat issues. (Ex. Click to be linked to the threads: Complaints, complaints, complaints...granted with some tweaking the temps can be tamed, but still there's a point to this.) (Poor engineering = cramming in desktop components into a plastic box and hoping it'll work. Lack of engineering.) Also due to NDA's put in place by the resellers (not their fault), there has been minimal information within the DTR community to keep the good folks in the looop, then suddenly one day, BAM, the DTR owners get screwed over. Shame on Clevo. Another thing is that MXM is a dying breed and the future looks really grey at best moving forward.

All the while, they are seeing bga's and alike thrive, especially with the roll out of Pascal so this is making them even more in a state of being shunned by what used to be in a league of its own. There are unreasonable thermal issues out of the box with the 1080 and 1080SLI in the Clevo's, which is embarrassing because this clearly demonstrates a lack of quality engineering with the mediocre plastic boxes that these desktop components are being shoved into. Wouldn't you expect more for a ~$3,000+ machine? It's like you're already going into it knowing that you're going to be screwed over with a generic machine. ie...imagine having a Ferrari engine being stuffed into a bare bones rental car. That's pretty much what the Clevo is. Amazing hardware (of course) in a poorly engineered cookie cutter plastic box. It's just the truth and hey, bga's have issues of their own so fair game.

The bga bashing is already lopsided from the get go, because some DTR owners were (and still are *roll eyes*) comparing their desktop components to mobile components, silly I know, but now with Pascal being equipped in both DTR's and gaming bga laptops, the gap has closed even more to literally 1:1 in almost every category. This still doesn't negate the fact that a DTR and a gaming laptop are still in a league of their own due to the CPU's being different, although the 6820HK is able to hold its own as demonstrated by me and others like @Mobius 1 etc...it's more than capable. ( Click here for the thread.)

So now when you look at it from a real world perspective, in almost every category aside to the CPU and possibly the BIOS (Clevo's without Perma is rubbish, even DTR owners will admit to that), a gaming laptop equipped with a pascal gpu and a 6820HK will be on par with a DTR in almost everything, except when it comes to benching. This is a hard pill to swallow for DTR owners to despise bga machines, let alone seeing the new AW line coming out that are build better with quality materiel than the plastic Clevo boxes. So of course this is going to stir up a lot of internal, jealousy, denial, and the coming of the realization that the days of having a DTR walking circles around a gimped mobile gaming laptop is coming to an end with Pascal and worthy mobile chips like the 6820HK. This is not to say that bga machines don't have issues of their own with crippled BIOS etc...

Remember that it is already lopsided to be comparing a DTR to a gaming laptop with mobile chip-sets in the first place, therefore, with this much emphasis and effort of the haters coming into threads like this and acting childish only shows the amount of denial they are in, now having been screwed over by Clevo, dealing with thermal issues, lack of upgradability, quality issues and the lack of screen options. Did I mention a dying breed with MXM?

So the real question becomes...what's in it next for bga haters? Having to silently opt for a bga themselves or to inconveniently haul around a desktop because it'd hurt their pride too much to buy a bga? Let's be real...most will buy a bga now that it's coming down to it being the more practical choice. Especially when you can get more than enough power from a bga gaming laptop with Pascal and CPU's like 6820HK.

I want just as much as any enthusiast for LGA/MXM to stay alive and will support the company who does make an effort to provide these options, because there is a level of freedom and fulfillment in such machines that you'd never get in a bga machine. Most people won't understand this, but for those that know....well...just know...

However, in reality benchmarks really don't mean anything to real world usage. It really boils down to practicality, but that doesn't discount the fact that companies offering LGA/MXM machines for the real enthusiasts shall become extinct just because the overall market will buy what they are given. That's subjective of course...

To each his own...