*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M R1 Owner's Lounge

Why do you go with FHD 60Hz? No offense intended but that makes no sense. I would at least go with 3k or a high refresh rate FHD 120/144Hz.

Otherwise your 2070 is useless in this scenario.

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Or maybe it was simply, "Do not buy that product from them because they ship with an unsupported configuration, likely to cause problems, and give AW51 a bad name unnecessarily".

 

HAHA, they know that heat kills performance. I bet they are many getting 51 for gaming themselves and open-minded to allow best cooling on the planet with LM. Of course, provided that people nail polish the whole motherboard LOL

Anyway, has anyone tried Coollaboratory extreme yet? ('Due to the paste-like texture the application is very easy now') This is 41 Wm/k and probably not runny, BUT still conductive.

 

OK so that means there is no way to set a max frequency and a max voltage, to be lower than what's in the firmware? For example I cannot tell it "go up to 1900MHz and up to 0.95V" ?

 

Are you ordering from Iran, N. Korea and other such US-friendly places?

 

Exactly! Why buy version 1.0 of something especially with all the known heat issues.

 

SORRY OFF TOPIC !!!

@doofus99

This is my curve. After I close the Kombustor Benchmark, or a game, MSI afterburner shows clocks are back to Zero. After gaming, I re-set Afterburner to defaults and close it. Letme know if this is it. I will send you my profile if you PM me you e-mail.

EDIT: just found out that you have 1080 LOL, not 1060 !!! So the profile would be useless, unless 1080 can run with same values.

 

Damn, i didnt know there was a new version of it. Want to check it out as well. If it isnt runny it might be a real low risk solution.

 

And herein lies the catch. Power consumption depends on (a) frequency (b) voltage (c) instruction blend. It is (c) instruction blend that does the trick. You can use lite or power hungry instructions in your test harness, and that will determine the power drawn. Therefore at 2.9MHz base clock speed you could stress test with P95 and get much more than the 45W Intel prescribes (61W on my i9-8950HK).

There is no program defined for this testing, so the best user smoke test would be to run P95 small FFTs and see how the machine behaves. That will cook the CPU and for added stress you can at the same time hit the GPU with a demanding game running in the background, and then you have another 180W of heat on the same combined heatsink and small enclosed space.

 

Yes, you can still do that. Just don't use Ctrl+L to lock it there if you want it to downclock at idle. Worst case scenario, save two profiles. One to lock it where you want it for gaming, and another one with the same settings, but not permanently locked into boost mode. Then you can change profiles on the fly from the system tray icon.

You go to the voltage curve tool, grab the dot for the 0.950V column, move it up to 1900MHz and click apply. Then save it to a profile. Go back and select that dot, do Ctrl+L to add the yellow line and lock it there. Click apply, then save it to another profile.

 

OK does this curve say "at 1700MHz use the leftmost voltage point, ie 811mV, and ignore all other points to the right?"

And in that case what is the meaning of all these other points to the right?

Also my MSI Afterburner does not read the GPU voltage, or power. Do you know of a way around this? Do I need to install Hwinfo and ask MSI to read from it?

 

@doofus99

>>>>Yes.

>>>>The same voltage, the same frequency.

>>>>Fix:

ENABLE VOLTAGE CONTROL "FIX"

Step 1: Go to your MSI Afterburner Profiles folder (C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner\Profiles)
Step 2: Right-click the file named "VEN_10DE&DEV..." and go > Properties > Security
Step 3: Select "Edit" and then click on "Users (username\Users)" and with the permission boxes below, check "Allow" for the first box - Full control. Click OK and OK again (this allows the file to be saved after editing it).
Step 4: Now you can open the file named "VEN_10DE&DEV..." in WordPad and replace everything you see with this:


[Startup]
Format=2
CoreVoltageBoost=
PowerLimit=
ThermalLimit=
ThermalPrioritize=
CoreClkBoost=
MemClkBoost=
[Settings]
VDDC_Generic_Detection=1



Step 5: Save the file and restart MSI Afterburner
Step 6: Go into MSI Afterburner settings and check the boxes under General > "Unlock voltage control" and "Unlock voltage monitoring" then click OK and restart Afterburner.
Final: GPU voltage control is unlocked and can be used now up to +100mV as well as monitoring GPU voltage in the OSD.

>>>Moving the voltage slider has no effect on my laptop. But you will get the actual voltage for monitoring purposes.

 

I ordered some from Germany. (Could not get it in the US.) I haven't posted any results. The formula is a little better. Easier to apply (sticks to contact surfaces better) and not quite as runny. It is more like Conductonaut and the "old CLU" in terms of those properties.

The only problem I had is there is not enough product in the syringe for HEDT users. So, I could not fully test it in the scenario that played out for me. I replaced Conductonaut on the die and replaced the IHS with a RockitCool copper IHS on my 7960X. The temps were absolutely horrid with the copper IHS, but I used every last drop from the syringe on the aftermarket IHS (I do all surfaces) so now I am back to using Conductonaut and was never able to test the thermal effectiveness of the new Liquid Ultra. I wish I had stuck with the stock IHS. I probably will not buy it again because of how little product there is in the syringe. It's more than enough for at least two laptop CPU repastes, and the good part is that it is not as runny and easier to apply without balling up and repelling from the contact surfaces.

 

Ouch.

Given their current track record, i'll go with what I posted.

 

I got the information about EXTREME from you (a few weeks ago you posted that you ordered it), but could not remember who posted it.
All I knew that it was definitely someone from BGA hater's wolfpack LOL

I think non-running LM would be okey for Area-51M

 

At the time of purchase specifying Pro vs Home is far cheaper than that, either the Dell rep got that wrong or they misunderstood you - unless this is location specific but thats a big cost difference.

 

Should also note that it's like a $10 upgrade if you know where to look.

Never buy Dell's upgrade cost

 

It was this! many thanks!

 

There is no other option lesser than the 2070, and to be honest I never really notice any difference on the higher refresh rate screens anyways.

Also if its running at far less than its capable of doing, it will produce less heat. I also have an external 4K screen I may use from time to time.

 

Yes, it should be fine.

 

The chip's TDP has no relevance to the user (unless you design cooling solutions for that SKU) , except to know what's the most powerful CPU that fits in that model.

The TDP of the chip is already calculated and tested and it is available along with the guidelines for designing the cooling system.

It is up to the OEMs to design a proper HS with the provided guidelines from both the CPU and GPU manufacturers (since you mentioned the combined loads, which is not Intel's job to calculate).

Page 87 from 8th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.pdf:



There's no "catch", believe that it is clear enough:

If for ex. the CPU overheats or throttles below base, then it is the OEM's fault, because it has all the data to design a proper cooling solution.

Since the PL1 value usually coincides with the TDP (of the cooling solution), then the TDP rating of the CPU part of the HS in A51M, should be ~ 130w (I don't remember what's the power limit when stressing just the CPU) or 119w for the CPU in combined loads and a total of 299w (119w CPU + 180w GPU).

 

I live in USA and ordered here.

 

So today I got email from Dell and here is what they wrote:

"I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you due to this order delay. Due to an issue with one of the parts on this order many orders have been impacted and we are trying to get this sorted out. I will keep you updated at the earliest as I am awaiting response from the sales and order management team."

So looks like my order on hold and they going to cancel and replace it later whatsoever, so how much to wait - no clue. I really don't want to build desktop, for two reasons:
a) not willing to spend 10k, cause I could buy Threadripper, 2080 Ti, etc., there are no limits like the laptop's hardware has;
b) desktop weights too much and takes a lot of space, I don't know how to travel with it when I need to move somewhere, even if I move not so often.

Also, I've checked HIDevolution - their price even expensiver for already overpriced laptop. I hope everything will be fine and they gonna send my laptop as soon as possible.

 

I'm not sure that is correct, and no offence intended of course and I don't understand, nor agree where you claim "They will probably be pretty close in heat production". Happy to be proven wrong and I may learn something new, so its all good either way!

65W vs 95W is a roughly 30% difference especially in a laptop however good the cooling, and must produce more heat to dissipate (from my dodgy maths skills). More watts = more power consumption and more heat produced operating at base frequency, from my understanding of Intels explanation -

"Thermal Design Power (TDP) represents the average power, in watts, the processor dissipates when operating at Base Frequency with all cores active under an Intel-defined, high-complexity workload."

From my understanding the 8700 isn't stuck to any frequency, it ramps up to its set maximum when workload requires it to do so then drops back down to idle just like any other CPU, when no load is present. The main difference with the K models is that they are able to run at a higher frequency as they are designed to be able to do so and their thermal design is increased as they will consume and produce a lot more heat doing so. Why would I need to down clock a more powerful processor to stay cool - if they are both pretty close in heat production as you claim?

The 8700 has HyperThreading where as the 9700K does not, so its 6 cores 12 threads vs 8 cores 8 threads, noted that threads/cores do not make much difference to gaming as presently most games only engage 4 cores. The 8700 also runs unusually high clocks for a non-K chip and not much difference to the 8700K version if you compare the 2.

Last point I'd like to make is that Intel Thermal Solution Specification for the 9700K processor - Intel Reference Heat Sink specification for proper operation of this SKU is classed as PCG 2015D (130W) whereas the 8700 is PCG 2015C (65W) - this tells me the 9700K is going to run a lot hotter at (its higher) Base Frequency and use more power doing so (hence the larger power supplies), and even more so if you do overclock it (hence the extra cooling pipes). It has twice the amount of watts heat to dissipate. Just imagine swapping out an old incandescant light bulb, the lower the wattage the cooler the lamp

 

This isn't the exact quote I was looking for (pasted below), but I'm on my phone so it will do.

Essentially the i7-8700 peaks at 126Watt. Ironically this system is limited to 119Watt (or 129Watt when GPU is not loaded).

Unfortunately Intels 65 vs 95w spec is useless to us the end users. Unless you want to disable turbo boost.

So, overall. At stock the i7-9700k and i7-8700 will peak just around the same 119-129W peak.

With the K CPU however, you can change stock power settings (other than just undervolting). You can only undervolt a non K CPU and hope for the best

I hope this makes sense

"... Its chips actually exceed the TDP when they dynamically increase voltage and frequency through their Turbo Boost algorithms. As noted on Intel's Turbo Boost 2.0informational page:

Note: Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 allows the processor to operate at a power level that is higher than its TDP configuration and data sheet specified power for short durations to maximize performance.

According to our measurements, Core i7-8700 peaks at up to 126W during taxing all-core workloads. With that data in-hand, the stock cooler does appear insufficient. :

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-8700-cpu-review,5638-2.html

 

More 3Dmark FireStrike scores up from Worlds fastest laptop https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/18207499/fs/18207568/fs/18207639/fs/18205097#

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700k

The chips are the same, it is just that one is allowed to go higher in power draw if it needs to.

The 8700K can draw the same amount of power as 8700 at 3.2Ghz, but it can draw as much as 95w at 3.7 Ghz, while the 8700 isn't allowed to pass 65w.
It (the power draw) mainly depends on the silicon and default voltage, if the load is the same.

 

I had the same thought process too when deciding on this laptop (not so much about the point of unlimited spending, but on the travel).

I watched a video about the Corsair One a while back and kinda just, "cool but not for me" but now that I'm thinking about it, it's a pretty nice machine, but it also fits your points pretty well. As far as desktops go, it pretty small and fairly portable; it's not laptop level portability, but I could see myself lugging pretty easily if I need to relocate. You'd still need a display though. And because of it's unique size, you don't have many options for upgrade either; a con for most people, but I guess a pro for you.

It's priced pretty similarly with the Alienware, which is to say, pretty damn expensive for a desktop. But it'll run cooler and be more powerful. I actually considered it... For a brief moment. But ultimately having everything in an all in one package for travel was more important for me . Relocating every couple months with a monitor and petite desktop isn't too cumbersome, but a beefy laptop is probably better

 

It can draw much more than 65w. Read my response above. Intel's stated TDP does not reflect any turbo boost

 

We were comparing apples and oranges and you've gone and chucked a pear in to the mix!

You are saying the stock (desktop!!!) cooler from that review appears insufficient for the 8700 chip - as it draws more power and creates more heat to dissipate than the TDP Intel claim and the cooler cant cope with it, yet I should go ahead and plump for the even more power hungry unlocked version of the chip in a LAPTOP? How's that work fella?

So I put a more powerful CPU requiring more cooling in the laptop I'm better off if heats an issue - no I'm happy with my spec choices after having exactly the same issue with an XPS 9570. I returned as it couldn't cool itself properly even after a repaste and undervolt and extra thermal pads, (among other issues) and I am not making the same mistake again. It's not about how powerful or how fast it is, for any bragging rights, it has to be stable, reliable and quiet.

 

Yeah, but it's up to the OEM let it fly Everything can be crippled with firmware.
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-12/intel-core-i7-8700-turbo-takt-oem-pc/

 

Not what I am trying to say at all. Just referencing my source for the copy paste. Dont bother reading the article

What I am saying, and wrote above, i7-8700 non K CPU will draw much more power than 65W TDP that intel states. And the power draw will be similar to the i7-9700K operating under turbo boost.

 

It can, for a relatively short duration, but that power draw and the TB clocks are not part of the TDP equation. The TDP basically represents the power draw that can be sustained indefinitely.

@Woodking

Tu put it in another way, if you put the same load on 8700 and 8700k and both have the same voltage in that load, then they will draw the same amount of power at the same frequency.

You are basically saying the same thing as I am, but with different examples/reference systems.

 

Yes! Yes!
And what I was trying to expand upon is that the unlocked CPU can actully lower the power draw by playing with the power settings. Therefore making it cooler at the same frequencies. (Despite Intel's 65W vs 95W stated TDPs)
@Woodking
Sorry, I am not good at explaining things

 

Already understood, I don't trust those Intel guys claims after previous experience!

Moving on from that point I also dont believe the newer chips will be any/much better, regarding heat production. They maybe slightly more efficient - processing wise - being younger 'tweaked' tech possibly, but then with higher frequencies and being unlocked they must require more power to run hence the higher TDP and heat sink spec?

 

Mine was shipped today to Europe (Germany). Core i9 9900K and RTX2080.

 

For comparison , here are benchmarks from my P775 2080 :






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How are the temps? Stock vs undervolt?

 

CPU is at 4.8ghz with a -120 undervolt and temps are around 80 to 87C tops while playing BF5 and BO4. If you want to stay under 80C I need to drop to 4.6ghz with a -160mv.


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Nice. When did you order yours? Hoping this means mine will be shipped soon also.

 

When was your original ship date?

 

Ordered on 1st February. Had to cancel my previous order because shortly there was a 13% discount on alienware website.

 

Well now I feel ripped off. I preordered mine on 1-11-19. Blast.

Keep us posted how it is.

 

Mini has shipped to. I live in the Netherlands and ordered mine on 29th of januari.
It says it can take up to 8 days, but i think its going to be here wednesday or thursday.

 

I ordered on Jan 10th and they cancelled my order Feb 3rd because they said my order had wrong power supply, bs, I had to reorder on Feb 5th.... So stupid.

 

What configuration did you order? On my order sheet I got the 180 +330w and I ordered a 2080 with 9700.

And I talked with dell yesterday. They say it's in preproduction. So it should not as of right now be cancelled.

 

2080 and i9....180w and 330w.... Same on both orders nothing changed I dunno wtf they're doing, I'm certain they have no idea wtf they're doing either....

 

Maybe since you had to reorder they prioritized your shipment. I'll call again monday if I don't get an update. Atleast yours is on the way.

 

Mine is not on the way.... Still in order status...

 

Whoops. Got you mixed up with the lucky fellow.