*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M R2 Owner's Lounge

This isn't to fan any flames, but I didn't take @Papusan's post (which is an educated opinion, since I don't believe any of us are privy to nVidia's plans) wasn't necessarily a dig a AW, but rather regarding the laptop industry as a whole. I too don't expect Ampere based GPUs in **any** lappys until mid to late Q1 2021.

[Edit... bumped UP estimate by a few weeks to mid-Q1, 2021]

 

Any rationale behind your educated guess?

It took just over 3 months from RTX reveal to 51M availability. They will rush, since I guess laptops are the highest volume and highest markup business (ref Area 51M pricing lol).

 

In case anyone missed this:

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/n...ve-blog-get-ready-for-some-new-graphics-cards

My fav quotes:

Nvidia is calling this the greatest generational jump ever.

The RTX 3080 is apparently twice as fast as the Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 at the same price.

The Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 will be faster than the 2080 Ti, but coming in at just $499.

GDDR6X should be nearly twice as fast as GDDR6

This stuff looks insane.

 

Nvidia hasn't missed a Q1 release of mobile GPUs, following a Q3 desktop release, since the Fermi based GTX 400M series.

I don't expect the decade long trend to be upended because reasons.

 

Oh lord..

 

i'm gonna need someone to figure out how to mod an AGA to use a 3080. thanks. lol. maybe they will make a gen 2 AGA because of these cards.

 

Mobile Super out 9 months after the desktop cards And AMD have still nothing to compete with for notebooks.

 

AMD hasn't competed in notebook GPUs since the Radeon HD 6970M, I won't hold my breath on that trend changing.

Damn good card that was, had it in a Clevo.

Oh and Super doesn't count, because I said so. I'm talking brand new launches.

 

I ordered the 5700M. Hoping the board power design is 180W like the desktop card. With any luck it may have afterburner support and could take soft power play tables like the Vega56 mobile does. It should already be better than the 5600M given that SmartShift is not present and the cooling system is not anemic. Obviously it would be nowhere near the 2080 Super but maybe on par with the 2070 Super? I also want to experiment with MacOS / Linux as well which could be a better experience than with the Nvidia card lineup.

 

Dell try catch buyers/customers who sit on the fence waiting for Ampere. What is better than refresh the old to make it more tempting to jump on the old?


New Alienware Area-51m R2 features 360 Hz Full HD display, Comet Lake CPUs, and more notebookcheck.net


Dell's Alienware m17 R3 gaming laptop now comes with a 360Hz screen notebookcheck.net

 

LOL, they are trying hard to push that last RTX 20x0 stock. Pure marketing BS. 360Hz and apparently still 3ms response time (technically need less than 3ms for the panel to actually respond at that frequency, and the 3ms GtG is the best case scenario), and presumably 700:1 contrast ratio...

 

Imagine announcing a refresh for a laptop when it just came out and the initial buyers haven't all received their machines yet.

Bold strategy.

 

And it’s not like it’s even selectable from the online store yet!

 

can we start a petition to bring 30x0 series for Area51m?

We are not asking for 3090 , 3080 and 3070 are a welcomed upgrade.

Thanks/

 

Not the first time Dell plulled this trick lately. In mid 2019 Dell released an m15 refresh upgrading the CPU to almost identical 9750, then released another refresh like a month later, this time featuring a 51M like design, and bastardised internals including soldered RAM, WiFi and inverted mobo. Obviously, they'd rather people buy a new laptop every 2 months.

No need to petition, it's coming soon. You will need a brand new laptop of course so get that 5 grand ready.

 

Nivida just made everything else obsolete.

 

of course not, I don't think there is a mod for a "super" rtx that works on R1, they can easily replace screw location to mess up the installation.
Im not even sure if MXM 30.b fits in Area51m, man this is this is dark ages for laptop and pc world where "upgradability" is not longer considered.

Pascal users got back stabbed, our turn now.

 

I think these days if you expect upgradeability from a notebook you'll be disappointed.

You need to think of them more like more powerful consoles with without a locked down OS with a keyboard and a mouse. It's unfortunate but that's how things are now.

 

The thing is, the CPU in 51M is already upgradeable, and the dGPU sits on a card which was designed for upgradeability. Instead, Dell turned around so they can extract more money through the engineered obsolescence route.

 

Coming from a couple of MacBooks over the span of 10ish years, I was genuinely surprised that I could add/remove parts from a laptop again. Granted, there are artificial limitations, but the ability itself really caught me off guard.

 

All of this performance upgrade doesn't come for free in terms of power consumption:



I think we will be needing laptops capable of at least 300W on the GPU on the near future

 

Papu is the one to really ask for his reasons for laptops overall.

However, since you addressed me for my rationale for Area 51m, IMO, I think it would be too soon (at least in regards to the Area 51m). Here's the way I break it down... Again, not saying I know the future, but just taking a guess since it is as good as anyone else's:

- AW is on record saying you can only upgrade Area 51m WITHIN generations of components. So, wouldn't a DGFF designed nVidia 3080 be a next gen component?
- Area 51m R2 is what, 5 months since release? So plenty of stock to go thru before even thinking of an R3.
- DGFF nVidia 2080 Super isn't that long in the tooth either, so nVidia will need to unload those too.

If they were to release an Ampere DGFF, it would probably be with an Area 51m R3 assuming they don't gimp on power - which means even better cooling system may be required. When has AW released a model 8 months after the previous generation just shipped? So using that as my basis, I say, March/April is when news of nVidia 3080 for Area 51m starts making news.

We shall see over the next 3-7 months if I'm prescient on this.

 

From a business point of view, Dell/Alienware MUST release a new Area51m as soon as the mobile RTX3x00 gets released. MSI/Asus/Clevo won't wait too long to release new laptops when the new RTX chips get it's mobile counterpart, so if Alienware doesn't offer the same they will be too late to get in to that boat later. I mean who will buy an Area51m with an old 2080 super, when you have for the same price a laptop with a far superior RTX 3080, makes no sense. So either Alienware release a new Area 51m immediately or they are going to sell zero new units. as simple as that

 

1. Absolutely no idea why this is relevant to timing. There will be no upgradeability, just another DGFF for Ampere only That will be $5k for a new laptop please
2. Doesn't matter - Dell doesn't mind releasing new laptop versions within 1 month of each other these days. It's the new normal for them.
3. Nvidia already unloaded those - production has been switched to Ampere

Indeed, we'll find out soon enough

 

Opinions vary. I have no skin in the game one way or the other. But we can agree, "time" will be the resolver of this one.

 

Still a good chance with Clevo. Rocket Lake is coming as upgrade for X170 and Clevo still use MXM graphics.

 

Actually, from a business point of view it will be cost / benefit analysis that wins. Now, let's take some ppls' assumption the mobile nVidia 30x0's will be ready in a few months, Dell/Alienware will make a determination of what market share they may lose on NEW sales if they wait vs.having to write off the $$$ they spent on a bunch of now worthless shells of Area 51m R2s.

That's assuming the R2 cannot handle the power of RTX30x0 or perhaps they gimp it down? As previously stated, "Time" will be the resolver of this question.

While Dell would be able to absorb a misstep in one computer line, having models announced or possibly released too soon can be very, very bad for a company. Just ask the Osborne Computer Corporation.

 

Good point. Clevo tend to be a bit more upgradeable.

 

Sure, time will tell. There is also the "goodwill" of the Alienware brand. Alienware's flagship Area 51m has to be the most "powerful" laptop on earth, or that's what Dell want's to achieve in terms of the brand. When RTX 3x00 hits the market even the RTX 3070 will beat the 2080 super, it would definitely be hard to swallow for Alienware that it's flagship laptop to fall in performance behind mid-high range laptops with RTX 3070, that would cause damage to the brand

 

There is no reason to assume Dell were caught by surprise here and overstocked the R2. Right now, the cards are on the table, and the name of the game is to push Ampere out ASAP.

 

We shall definitely see.

 

I think that marketing ploy died down after there were other systems that were posting better bench scores. But, regardless. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out up to the end of the year.

 

Eh...needs and wants come and go. OS X and predictable battery life worked best for me at that time. Now, I’m a lot more flexible.

 

Sorry, unfinished post lol I was going to say that Apple trailblazed the closed design to their immense financial benefit.

 

Surely Dell, like Asus, MSI, Gigabyte etc, were well aware of the incoming 30xx series and their specs, it is not a surprise to them. Asus/MSI/Gigabyte already have 3080 cards , see here for example:
https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/gpu-nvidia/3175/3176

 

Seeing as the 3080 is 320W, my question would be, how much power (heat) can any heatsink eliminate from a given chassis (dimensions, shape etc) and how much power can a legal laptop battery deliver (isn't the max around 100Wh ?) Would the A51R2 be able to dissipate so much heat without melting or catching on fire?

 

Based on what little I know, I would hypothesize that if the chassis remains as is, the battery may have to shrink because of all the heat being generated.
Hell, maybe remove the battery altogether and market it as the world’s first modern-day mobile desktop?

 

Well, the mobile chips obviously won't use that much power. 51M is not a desktop and won't be a true replacement for one for a foreseeable future. Many obvious reasons. They should rather add missing features that would make it a proper laptop such as a MUX switch to optionally enable Optimus for those who need battery life.

 

I was under the impression the GTX 1080 on my AW17R5 burns 180W, even 200W overclocked, which is like the desktop card, no?

 

The DGFF card for a 3080 will definitely be huge. 10 GDDR6X memory chips, which likely cannot be packed as tightly as GDDR6 (remember how GDDR5X was on 1080). More VRM phases as well. It will probably need a vapor chamber for both CPU and GPU and ideally a third fan. Maybe they will move to soldered wifi to make space for the new DGFF?

 

Looks like it can go higher in desktops, no? Check out the power consumption stats:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nvidi...sktop-Review-Pascal-has-arrived.165500.0.html

 

Soldered WiFi, yeah, I like your thinking... Well, they already sliced the RAM in half in the R2, so after the very successful Alienware m15 R2 (1/10th of user lounge posts vs R1) and R3 (1/20th of user lounge posts vs R1) experiment, Dell might well conclude it's time for the next logical step - soldered RAM in the 51M!

 

This article says "175W". Unless I am missing something.

The official specs say 180W.
https://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-1080/specifications

 

Nvidia know notebooks being thinner and lighter. Expect TGP max out same as Turing/Pascal and Maxwell Mobile (200w). Not so sure about the die size for Ampere but won’t need much better cooling than todays mobile graphics. Pascal die was small and hence run hotter than Turing.

Today’s question will be. Will Dell and the other notebook manufacturers follow Nvidia’s increased thermal limits for Ampere?

150W. Tuned up to 180w. Similar as for 2080 (S). 150w + then added 50w on top via vBios (Mobile).

 

Yes, you missed the power consumption benchmarks. Up to 350W.

 

I wouldn't expect as much difference between desktop video cards and the mobile video cards:



Around 30% difference TDP maybe (?) ... so if the desktop RTX 3080 TDP is 320 W then the mobile RTX 3080 should be around 225+ W, I think most enthusiast brands will push the power up to 250 W. that's my bet

 

Imagine Clevo without Prema.

Whole different existence as far as upgradeability.

 

From my older post.


Report: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30 GPUS To Be In Short Supply Until 2021

If this is correct it will further confirm what I expect for notebooks. Forget Ampere Mobile at Christmas/early winter. Nvida will happily offer you all their EOL Turing graphics for gamingbooks the coming nearest months

 

Very keen to see benchmarks/TDP information for this. I'm a little sad we know so little about the 5700M and how it compares.

 

As the article you quoted is 100 pages long, I presume you mean this section:
////////////////////////////////////
Using The Witcher 3, we can measure 322 Watts at the socket at first (248 Watts more than idle). HWiNFO shows 175 Watts for the GPU. The value levels off at 302 Watts after 5 minutes (HWiNFO shows 160 Watts for the GPU, 34 Watts for the CPU). The recommended 500-Watt PSU should therefore be sufficient. Using the R9 Fury, we get around 350 Watts (constant) in the same scene. The Asus Strix 980 Ti (overclocked by Asus) is using even more with about 397 Watt.
////////////////////////////////////

I believe he is measuring at the plug on the wall. From there the power splits to many consumers on the motherboard suffering many losses, before hitting the GPU. HWinfo showed 160-175W for the GPU, which is in line with Nvidia's specs that show the GTX 1080 at 180W.

My GTX 1080 is shown in GPU-Z and HWinfo to consume 180W-190W depending on voltages and overclocking.

On Userbenchmark they show the GTX 1080 desktop as being 17% faster than the mobile version.
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1080-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Mobile/3603vsm165564

From the A51R1 and R2 threads we know the GTX2080 inside the Alienware consumes 200W, is that not correct? I think the mobile versions of the xx80 models are quite close to the vanilla (not overclocked) desktop versions (not the MQ), may be 15%?