*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M R1 Owner's Lounge

Open it and enjoy it!

 

Actually RTX 3xxx would be expensive at launch, same goes for 10900K and the same for Alienware.

You know what? Im calling Dell and pretend to be BestBuy manager.

 

the curse of early birds

 

got any plans? besides paying more?

 

The community asked for an App. And got what they asked for. If you have followed up the Alienware's the last 5 years, you have probably seen almost everything in advanced options is locked out in bios. Why should Dell suddenly change how they prefer it to be? You won't find much advanced options in bios for the XPS line as well. Same policy all over.

Press relaseses...

Dell and Alienware Set a New Bar for Excellence with redesigned PC Gaming portfolio, Alienware Design, and esports Partnerships

https://twitter.com/Alienware/status/1064946355548930048

 

Depends how much you paid for it. If you paid full price with no discounts then send her back. But if you got a deal through work, military discounts and coupons then might be worth keeping. The SUPER cards aren’t going to be that much better than what we have now. But there might finally be a 4K display on an R2 model. That and hopefully better cooling.

 

The problem with 4K screens they cant run at high refresh rates... The better cooling is the serious thing here. I wish the new motherboard can fit on the older chasis. According to the chinese who got access to area51m R2 cooler said he managed to drill new holes in R1 to fix the cooler and it worked!!!!!

My plan failed, the technical team have no disclosure on such information. Asked him about upgraded cooler over reddit and how to obtain it and asked him about 10 Cores CPU.

I would laugh if I were the support personnel.

I also asked him about trade in program for those who buy the laptop recently and keep waiting for R2 revision. They didnt get reply for it.

There are two case scenarios now:

1- The R2 gets a glory 10 Cores CPU, then in July-Sept get RTX 3xxx

2- The R2 is a rebranded R1 with a better cooler and same GPU CPU

3- The R2 Gets a better CPU and Cooler with RTX 2080.

4- Area51m gets discontinued (and I sincerely hope not) and the upgrade route is blocked.

5- The community makes the upgrade himself LOL.

My friend's friend is calling from china asking for Bio Mask (10 millions quantity) and Im not joking around.
They are controlling the new virus hopefully with a new cure. I bet they are more cooperative than ever.

Im calling chinese people tomorrow , wish me luck lol

 

there are actually 120hz 4K screens now. The new 17” Razer Blade Pro’s have them. Issue is 4K resolution on any laptop is really just pointless.

 

Actually 4k is good for media, Im sure 4k content wont run pass 100 hz anyways for most games with RTX even with 3xxx

 

Expect 2-

Dell normally push out 2 revisions of same chassis. Then a full redesign. The big question is... Will those of you who will buy the R2 be able to use the next chassis hardware? Same socket doesn't necessarily mean the old chassis will get the needed Firmware update. Just look at 9900KS today. Still 9th gen Intel Cpu but a no go from Dell.

I expect it won't be any different than Aw's desktops. Bro @Cass-Olé have been there http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-wireless-card-samsung.802502/page-3#post-10483896

 

$1600 for i7-9700K : RTX 2070 : 144hz G-Sync 256GB m.2 : 1TB : 16GB 2666mhz RAM

 

That’s a good deal, I had that setup first, and had zero problems ( still only 2400 RAM ) but you won’t notice it.

The temps are better those components are a better fit for this case and cooling.




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Smoking deal where did you find that?

 

Dell outlet

Right now , there is a better deal. They have 15% additional off now. When i bought it a week ago, it was only 12% additional off.

 

Dammit you guys in the US have it good. Here in Oz the Outlet tries to palm off an M15 R1 with a 1060 for $1740 (on special from $1930).

 

That’s true.

 

I got mine 9900k, RTX 2080 16 GB DDR 2400 512GB SSD 1 TB

Tobi & lunar white for 3300$

Of course new. This is for your reference of course.

 

That's an very old concept that has been abandoned, cause of the manufacturing tolerances, and costs. creating such a heatsink for mass production would be too expensive (look at ASUS with their external watercooling box which is highly unpractical) Custom can be done quite eaily. Just CNC a heatsink slice it in two, create the waterchannels and resolder it again. The problem still would be where the reservoir would live, and how strong/noisy the pump would be. The pump could be replaced by a piezo electric pump like this one: but the 51m is way too thin for such a setup to work in. Look at @bennyg his post with a custom watercooling loop internally build. It was a heck of a job and his laptop is still portable, but it's an older chassis with much higher tolerances than the 51m.

A clevo, skycom eurocom etc LGA based machine would have the space but that's another discussion.

 

How much more cool would this be compared to the current cooling or a vapor chamber? Why did Asus made the liquid cooling external and what was inside? It just seems to big of a thing than regular liquid coolers I have seen.

Though if it was well made like something that the laptop can dock into, this could be an amazing invention. That way you wouldn't need a rock shaped thing to put behind your laptop but rather something that the laptop can sit onto which would be smaller than the Asus one, as you are using the entire area of the laptop bottom surface. I could imagine this would be really a good way to cool it down. I am not an expert though just dreaming

 

You can easily fix it on mechanical hard drive.

 

Hard to say, the current pipe designs is probably enough to get heat away quick enough from the DIE, the only problem is that heat bleeds from one side to the other due to the shared heatpipe nature. This has been an issue since AW changed from the 17 R (2013) seperate heatsinks to shared heatpipes. It's now one big assembly which is very prone to core imbalance, VRM/PCH overheating and failing drives within a year due to the heat that stays trapped within the chassis

If you look at this picture you can see it only houses the radiator blocks with two fans to push through the fins for the cooling. I think if you look closely you'll see why they went with an outside solution instead of
inside

Spoiler: Spoiler

It's too big to be implemented inside the chassis

That's true. But then the connection ports would be on the underside. Water is nog like electricity (which can be sent over cables or wireless) so making something like a dock on the under side would be a deal breaker. Most laptops use ports at the backside for example video output, charging ports, extra usb c ports etc. Sacrifing that space for other ports while moving your current ports to the side is for most a no-go since it will make the laptop "Thicker".

Vapor chambers are already suffice, granted if you use the whole base/chassis as cooling. Razor does a great job at that.
It has 2 perfectly squared holes, uses the whole chassis area to exract heat from the dies, and it's almost virtually impossible to create core imbalances (except when the DIE area of the VC is not perfectly flat)

This heatsink is one that i would've liked to order for my 17 R5 but it's not being produced anymore.

Where the red arrows are, is the place where the water would flow. This thing is soldered to the heatpipes which in turn gives it a look like this

Becasue the 17 R5 is slim already, the cooling of the water should be done externally since there is no way to make a small reservoir inside the chassis (SSD/HDD bay would be too small since the water would be heated in two or three loops, making it only hotter and hotter.

 

Yes and then ? you have no space inside for a reservoir, let alone for a reservoir AND a pump. Making an attachment which attaches to the side is better (where the pump, reservoir and small fan with rad sits), since your laptop keeps being portable. The only downside would be when moving your laptop the assembly should be drained, but that can be done in minutes

 

The water inside the pipes can be the reservoir, we are aiming for 20-50 W solution. If you want a 200 W solution then as you have previously stated you can hook it with external fan, radiator and reservoir you can actually fix the expensive quick disconnect fittings (google that QDC ) for external tubing just like the asus model.


Actually, yesterday I was thinking of a very similar thing, making the fan part of the radiator and here we go the chinese did it first.

We need a vapor chamber custom mods the 10900K is TDP is 350 W + according to some sources. Im not kidding this can burn the surrounding plastics and easily damage the screws + board.

If we ask the chinese to custom mod heat pipes + vapor chamber combined solution (since vapor chamber is small in thickness we can place it opposite side of the heat pipes and the case can close easily) then they will do it if we promise them minimum order, is this community willing to buy 100 Pcs? If yes something good migh happen to all of us and Dell can learn from us.

The problem I found is the smallest Vapor Chamber is 70x70x3 mm^3 meaning the screw of the existing sink shall be placed in a different way, Or the chamber have screw holes in it if a stack of pipes + vapor chamber can be made, then you should expect this laptop to compete with desktop 9900k on air of course. We dont want to mod Area51m motherboard and void the warranty, we want a custom vapor chamber + tubing for both VGA and CPU, of course the sink must be upgraded to compensate the extra heats hence copper fan shrouds as shown by your post.


Sorry for the long talk, and sorry if I sound like a nazi officer.

 

Combining a VC with heatpipes won't work well since the only functions for the pipes is to TRANSFER the heat. A vapor chamber SPREADS the heat. Transferring heat to a radiator will only create a hotspot on the radiator. Spreading the heat before it reaches the radiator, makes it cool much effectively than pipes while having a thinner solution as opposed to pipes. If we must believe AW, they're already using vapor chambers as the DIE contact area. As we all now, it's not working very well, and in my R5 it was a regular old piece of copper.

It can be done, but success in finding 100 people that want to combine water with electronics which was inteded to be used on a "lap" cause it's named a laptop while it's actually a DTR (Desktop Replacement).
You're on a forum with most tweakers spreaded over the world. There are not even 100 different people in this thread willing to buy a new motherboard because of the memory revision, let alone a heatsink which is watercooled and is not a one stop solution (because the cooling has to be done externally)

I have an watercooled heatsink at home for my 17 r5, but due to time i haven't had the chance to sit down. Also i have to 3d print quite a few pieces so it can become a complete assembly, but that's a project that has to be done, not in a afternoon tinkering

 

At the e

You can use it and return it for a period of time, 15 days iirc.

 

I have this (paid hella more too) and it runs perfectly. For that price just having the option to upgrade later is worth it.....

 

Hi I have just started to read all of the posts as I get my new 51m tomorrow with a 9900 chip and rtx 2080. I have just seen a video that points out bad thermal throttling in battelfield v after just 5 mins play. whats the best way to overcome this with settings in the laptop but to still get max performance. any advice would be welcome.

 

You can roll back to an earlier BIOS 1.5.0 is recommended for best performance. If you bought G-Sync you will lose its functionality on the built-in panel, if you rollback.

There is a workaround that allows you to control the fans via HWInfo64 and by setting a higher thermal limit for the GPU within AWCC. I haven't attempted either solution yet but then again I am not a hardcore gamer and haven't noticed anything overly drastic in terms of throttling. That being said, it's still unacceptable that Dell/Alienware thinks crippling the potential of this machine as a solution.

 

I am thining higher thermal limit will make it run hotter. I am thinking of undervolting. it will be useful if i can control the fanes will have a look at hwinfo64. I have a 9700k in my main desktop I have also thought about taking this out and putting into the m51 and putting the 9900k in my main pc. My 9700 runs v low volts for a 5100 overclock on all cores 1.30v.

 

Sorry I meant putting the laptop on a device like a cooling pad, that houses the water cooling so it can be as thick as the laptop without sacrificing the ports. I am not sure if one can house radiators and what not.

Aside from water cooling though, is there any laptop that uses the entire chassis to cool the internals? Razer actually does that? If so, which model? Pro or studio?

51m body is also full metal no? So why can't they do this? I assume if the internal heat pipes are touching the external chassis metal, I don't think the whole body is gonna be super hot to touch. If I am not wrong the larger the surface area the better for the heat to dissipate right?

 

No! You definitely don't want to do that!
It works just fine on Bios 1.8.1 or 1.7.3 and you have Gsync as well.
I would recommend the VBIOS 1.0.0.3 for a max of 200W power draw on the GPU.

I've done extensive testing between all Bios versions and even on BIOS 1.5.0 where you can put the temp threshold to 87C once you get there the GPU will throttle at around 1800Mhz-1900Mhz. At that point your GPU will run at constant 87C.
On Bios 1.7.3/1.8.1 once you get to 80C you will get a hard thermal throttle that will lower the core frequency to 500Mhz until the GPU cools down in the 40C.
However, you can use Alienware Control Center to lock the temp to 75C.

Based on my extensive testing, once you hit the thermal throttle point your GPU will work at 1800-1900Mhz no matter what. But, I would recommend running the GPU at 75C instead of 87C for long periods of time.

You don't need any HwInfo workarounds for this.

My recommendation is in Alienware Control Center to duplicate Overclocking profile 1 and:
- Set the GPU temp to 76 Celsius
- Set GPU core to +100-130Mhz (what works for your GPU)
- Set VRAM memory all the way to +200Mhz.

- Keep the CPU frequency to 5.0Ghz (or increase it to 5.1Ghz if you are brave).
- Set manual Voltage control
- Set Voltage offset to -80mV.

All of these will give you lower temps on the CPU, better performance on the GPU, no insane temps on the GPU and definitely no thermal throttling.

Bios 1.8.1 contains more Intel Security mitigation fixes vs Bios 1.7.3. You will loose a tiny bit of CPU performance, but nothing drastic. It's up to you which one you want to use.

Fan profiles: I normally use balanced or performance mode. Full mode only when I stress the CPU in something like Cinebench, Prime95, etc.

Using these settings I get this and I can use the Laptop to game a lot of continuous hours.
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/10493449

If you are interested (or anyone else), I can make a quick video showing all these settings

Cheers!
Helifax

 

Last thing I dont want to loose is gsync as this was a requirment I wanted. will know what bios its on when it lands tomorrow. Thanks for the info I will give it a go. Was a bit worried when I saw battlefiled v video and it was thermol throttling like mad nocking it down to 50fps. I have a msi gt73 with a gtx1080 @ over 100fps ulta on battlefield v dont want to be downgrading. what program are you using to change bios and where are you getting older ones from? Howmany cores do you have set to the 5ghz? Do you know if a 9700k produces less heat than the 9900

 

I don't see how you can completely discount my suggestion/recommendation when many others are running 1.5.0 and have temps tamed at around 80c? Just because your machine constantly hit 87c doesn't necessarily mean everyone's will.

I believe the recommended BIOS for optimal performance was 180w as 200w causes additional heat and the benefits are marginal.

Can you also be sure that all of the recommended OC and UV values you have provided will work across all CPU and GPU's?

 

I don't see how you can completely discount my suggestion/recommendation when many others are running 1.5.0 and have temps tamed at around 80c? Just because your machine constantly sits at 87c doesn't necessarily mean everyone's will.

I believe the recommended BIOS for optimal performance was 180w as 200w causes additional heat and the benefits are marginal.

Can you also be sure that all of the recommended OC and UV values you have provided will work across all CPU and GPU's?

 

Why would you want to lose G-Sync and run at 80 Celsius, when you can run WITH G-Sync at 75 Celsius. Less temperature, less power consumption, you actually use the G-Sync that you paid for the same actual & benchmarked performance?

I am not dismissing your suggestions. I would simply not recommend something that removes features we have paid for and relying on older firmware.
That is your recommendation, this is mine.

Please show me an area 51m running on Bios 1.5.0, with CPU overclock & undervolt and GPU overclock playing Metro Exodus (Extreme, RTX ultra, etc with unlocked framerate) that will not reach 87 Celsius (either on stock paste or on any other paste) after 2-3 hours of straight game-play. I am really curios to see one. (I am really curious and I don't want to provoke or argue with you. I am genuinely interested)

To answer your VBios question. The 180W/220W is the maximum the card can draw at a certain point. If you use the 180W, your gpu will get Power limited in different scenarios. Sure, this helps controlling the temperature (indirectly).
It doesn't mean your GPU will constantly eat 200W (it just means that it can burst in power draw when it actually needs it and later falling back to the regular 150/160W usage).

The values I recommended above, obviously will not work on every single machine out there. They are roughly used as a guiding point.

Cheers,
Helifax

 

I'm intrigued by this - if this is indeed the answer why is everyone still so sweaty over this question unless its just the fact of the holy grail of zero throttling is not hit? I mean, this is seems like a near-perfect solution unless I am missing something...

 

I think it’s just the fact that we have to jump through hoops to get close to the trouble free performance that was promised out of the box, a lot of us just are really aggravated over the gap between what was promised and reality.

It’s a different thing altogether if you buy the parts and build it yourself, but when you pay $3-5K for something that’s BUILT you expect them to take the time to get it right out of the box.

Can we make it work mostly? Sure give or take, but should we have to spend all this time and energy to keep it from overheating and throttling?

I’m just irritated at the corporate attitude these days, no one but Apple even tries to make it work as it should out of the box.

Everyone else is still stuck in old ways of thinking no finesse no polish and not willing to spend a few extra dollars or take a little more time with a product to get it right.

It’s just depressing and frustrating, like a smart child not working up to potential but settling for “good enough to get by”.






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The plot thickens... I had email contact with my local Dell rep today and he said that it wasn't official nor confirmed, but they are expecting a refresh of the 51M in may! Seeing that Sweden usually gets the new stuff after USA, april/may could very well be correct.

I cancelled my order straight away. The wait for april/may begins... ;-)

 

I think currently there is a bug in their OC tools or something. If you don't select an OC profile, the gpu will reach 80 C and then will throttle down to 500Mhz and makes your games unplayable.

If you select either OC1 or OC2, this doesn't happen. The 75C limit works just fine (You would expect the same 75C limit to be present when OC profiles are off - but it's not).

Of course, OC1/OC2 which overclocks CPU & GPU will make your temperature go even higher. At this point you want to undervolt you CPU and maybe undervolt your GPU as well (create a custom voltage/frequency curve) with MSI afterburner. You don't need to do this if you like high temperatures (which are still inside the normal operating range).

Alternatively, you can make your own OC profile, where you don't OC the GPU & CPU, but enable the 75 Celsius thermal limit on your GPU. This is the easiest and cleanest solution for an "out-of-the-box" experience.
Why this isn't enabled by default? Well, I guess it's a bug in the OC tools (This seems to be the bug).

More about my testing:
I have the same i9 9900k CPU on my desktop, overclocked to 5.2Ghz. It is watercooled by a 360mm radiator. Under Cinebench R15/R20 the temperature I get is around 92 Celsius. If I drop to 5.1Ghz is around 84 Celsius. At 4.7Ghz max temp is 68Celsius. This just to illustrate the amount of power and heat this CPU generates. (The CPU is alone on the waterloop. It is custom built using EK Waterblocks high performance rads/pumps/blocks and using Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut Paste).
The GPU, 2080Ti (watercooled on a separate loop by a 360mm rad again using EK Waterblocks high perf. rads/blocks) overclocked to +130Mhz on Core and 500Mhz on memory after 10 hours of continuous 99% usage it reaches a temperature of 62 Celsius.

I also tested the i9900k from my laptop in my desktop to compare it with my desktop CPU and in all tests, both behaved almost the same with a margin of error of 2% (the laptop i9900k was running a little cooler then the one on my desktop. But 2% is within the margin of error).
For thermal paste in the laptop I used Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. Not sure is the absolutely best for laptops, but it seems to behave a bit better than the stock paste.

Unfortunately, I couldn't test the RTX 2080 gpu in my desktop for obvious reasons.

Bottom line: I never ever expected to have desktop class components in a laptop chassis and have the cooling capabilities of a desktop - even on air.
No matter what you do, if you want the i9 and RTX 2080 to work at full speed (or very close to full speed) you will get some sort of thermal throttle, sadly.
These components are really hard to tame. The fact that I can actually run them in a laptop, I find it a great feat of engineering by itself!

Cheers,
Helifax

 

But there are no new graphics cards. A new processor is not enough. There would be zero performance improvement with just a new CPU. I hope the could fit a 2080 Ti or equivalent on the 51m R2, I would buy that laptop

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but I heard in may they start the r3 production so you might want to wait till feb/March next year.

 

I played metro on extreme with rtx on and my gpu never went above 80 degrees in all my playtime, you must have a hot chip. None of my games go above 80 and usually hover around the 77-78 mark. I’m on 1.5.0 with 180w vbios and 9700/2080

 

I am not an expert but 2080ti will be very hard to cool and power in this laptop when they are already struggling with 2080.

I would say if they upgrade the display to 4k, offer better cooling, new CPU like 10 core i9, and faster RAM, I think there will be people who will buy it.

 

I would really appreciate it, if you could answer me the following questions, as I am trying to profile the hell out of the laptop:

- When did you buy the laptop? Is it an early build or a late build? I bought mine last month and I got it delivered on the 15th January. I ordered it from Dell in the UK.
- Does GSYNC works for you?
- Do you use any overclock, undervolt on the CPU/GPU? If you do, can you please tell me the specifics?
- In Metro Exodus, what FPS do you get? Do you cap the FPS in any way or form? Are you using the Low Latency mode/option in the Nvidia driver?
- Did you apply your own thermal paste on the CPU and GPU? If you did, what brand did you use?
- Do you use the laptop LCD or an external LCD?
- What Fan Profile are you using when playing games?

I see you are using an i7 9700k vs the I9 9900k. The i7 draw less power than an i9. This also translates in lower temperatures generated by the CPU (The CPU and the GPU have a common heat-pipe. This is done so the GPU cooler can help cool the CPU, but it will also increase the temperature of the GPU when both CPU and GPU are running).
https://www.techspot.com/review/1730-intel-core-i9-9900k-core-i7-9700k/page3.html

If you have any other information you can share, it would be really appreciated!

Cheers,
Helifax

 

same here...usually 77-80°C at full load (200w Bios,1.5.0, repasted)

1. June Build
2. AUO panel = Gsync works @ 1.5.0
3. CPU @4,7-5.2 depends on the game i want to play
4. dont know atm, FPS uncapped
5. yes, ICD
6. both, external 3440x1440
7. profle balanced

 

Thanks for the info. In your signature you said you delidded your CPU? Are you using liquid metal to cool it, or thermal paste?
What paste are you using?
Am I right to say you are using 5.0Ghz on all 8 cores on your CPU and your GPU is overclocked?

 

1. March build
2. LG panel And g-sync works with 1.5.0
3. CPU, standard clocks with -100 UV, gpu also standard and no uv
4. I did not check the fps and don’t have it installed at the moment
5. Nope, all factory paste because the temps were good
6. both, internal and 1440p
7. For light gaming i use balanced like witcher 3 and for the gpu hogs i use performance, i’ve never used full speed

 

I'm well aware a 51M R2 will most likely not be a complete overhaul.

I'm thinking maybe a 1440p option, better cooling, higher than 2400MHz RAM freq and possibly a new gen CPU and RTX Super.

Or nothing of above. Maybe just small fixes for reliability and stuff.

If they actually can make the cooling better and nothing else, it could still be worth the wait.

 

A cooling system redesign would easily allow cool down a GPU of 250W. I read somewhere that is more about Nvidia not allowing to laptop's engineers to fit a Ti card on a laptop. I can't think a good reason for that though. As for 4k screen... No thanks, at 17 inch format size the only difference between 1080p and 4k is you'll get half the frame rate on 4k. I'd rather take an AMOLED screen with HDR and 144 Hz, that would be awesome

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