Gaming Mice THREAD/Diary

And is RMA as simple as communicating with them and giving them your serial number? Never had to RMA with logitech. The MX518 is still alive, even though I haven't used it in a hwile.

 

That's because it's not a laser engine, and both of us know the advantages that optical sensors still have over the current laser sensors. Also, I'm not talking about the technology itself, I'm talking about the human aspect of it. Not too many people can snap their mice across their mousepads in a reaction shot at that speed while maintaining control.

I gave a walkthrough through the entire RMA procedure in my previous post.

 

I really should click your links. Then again, I fear your links.

 

I use 5600-5700 DPI at 1366x768 and just keep the game specific sensitivity down. I love how precise it feels.

I honestly haven't owned more than maybe one optical mouse. What makes them better than some laser technology? I went right from ball mice to a laser one. I do believe laser tracks better on a wider variety of surfaces.

 

There are several schools of disciplines for overall "sensitivity." There are low DPI/low sensitivity players, high DPI/high sensitivity players, high DPI/low sensitivity players, and so on. I fall under high DPI/low sensitivity. Nonetheless, the ultimate result is how far you can move your mouse to make the referential 180 degree turn at a given ingame sensitivity, DPI, and screen resolution. For FPS games, in my book, I consider high sensitivity players to be able to make a 180 degree turn in 10cm or less, medium sensitivity players in 10-20cm, and low sensitivity players in 20cm or greater. This is under the assumption that all mouse acceleration is disabled both in the OS and ingame. However, there are some games out there like BF2 that have mouse acceleration locked and it is impossible for the user to get rid of it, which makes gauging your distance for a full 180 degree turn difficult. I know that there is a workaround for BF2 in Windows XP, but that's going into a different topic already. RTS, MMO, and other game genres have a different way of measuring sensitivity. But in general, users that play those games are mostly high sensitivity whereas most users that play FPS are low sensitivity.

I should have been more specific. On my desktop and in general apps, I use 4000dpi at 1920x1080. All of my games, with the exception of my older ones, I play at 1440x810 at 4000dpi. However, some of my games like GTAIV cannot lower the ingame sensitivity enough so that 4000dpi can achieve a 180 degree turn in 5cm; 4000dpi with the lowest ingame sensitivity in GTAIV equates for a distance of far less than 5cm during normal aiming. So in order to compensate, I lower my DPI.

You can reproduce my settings by opening CS:S or another Source game, set your mouse to 4000dpi and the ingame sensitivity to one, enable invert y-axis, and disable all mouse acceleration.

 

Now I've messed with the SetPoint software a bit and made two DPI settings. The first one is 5700 and the other is around 2500. I use the 5700 for non-sniper guns, and the 2500 is for normal computer usage and sniping.

I've found out that long range sniping isn't all that dangerous with the DPI switching. With that said the aforementioned DPI button setting would still be welcome.

I need to measure the distances and check out what you were saying. I don't have any Source games installed right now though.

 

Some of the better optical engines out there do not suffer from positive or negative acceleration or skipping at high speeds compared to the current best laser engines on the market. And by best I am talking about the Philips Twin-Eye 3.5G and the Avago LaserStream ADNS-9500. I've already talked about the issues with the both sensors in my previous post. The best optical sensor that I have had the honor of experiencing was in the MX 518, which is equipped with the Avago ADNS-3688. The original DeathAdder also had this engine. You can whip and snap this engine across your mousepad all you want and you will still get pinpoint precision, meaning absolutely no positive or negative acceleration, or skipping because of the very high maximum tracking speed. The only downside to optical sensors is as you said, the dependency on the surface the mouse is being used on. And this applies strongly to the consistency and precision that I mentioned above about the optical sensor. Laser mice are also dependent on the surface they are being used on, but not to the extent and severity of optical mice. However, the biggest advantage that laser mice have is that they can track on far more types of surfaces. Optical mice also suffer from those notorious "seizure" moments where the sensor just goes crazy for a split second before you are able to regain control. The other aspects that optical mice lack in is DPI, scan rate, and pixel processing. However, optical sensors were quickly pushed to the side with the rise of laser sensors ever since the first laser mouse was unveiled in 2004 by Logitech dubbed the MX 1000. Had the MX 1000 not come out, the focus on R&D for optical sensors would have continued to go as strongly as laser sensors today and the performance of the engine itself would be just as good if not better than laser engines. However, I would still take a laser mouse over an optical mouse because of my personal preferences and the equipment that I have at my disposal. The ADNS-9500 tracks best on translucent glass, and even more so if it is more textured, though it would be bad for the mouse feet. Also, being a high sensitivity user, my mouse is not going to see the insane travel speeds that low sensitivity users subject their mice to, so my tracking is as good as gold no matter what. And like I've said before, the G9x with Hyperglide feet and the I-1 is a godsend in every way.

Though always keep in mind though having a good set of equipment is important, also having good skills, knowledge, and experience on the battlefield is important as well. Know your mouse. Know it's strengths and drawbacks and know how to creatively work with them or work around them. I've used an old Dell ball mouse for years until I switched to an MX 1100 probably no more than a year and a half ago, and now to the G9x. Yes, I got my *ss kicked at LAN's using a ball mouse. Yes, I had to borrow frequently to keep up with the pace. Yes, I was an idiot for not investing in the next generation mousing technology. Though it wasn't that far back as the first competition level optical sensor wasn't developed until 2005, the ADNS-3688 in the MX 518, and the first competition level laser sensor wasn't developed until 2006, the ADNS-6010 in the G5. I still could have gone for one of the general optical mice though. But I loved my Dell ball mouse. I loved cleaning it's ball and getting it ready for the next battle. I knew how it worked and it is the sole reason why I am a high sensitivity user today. We have just witnessed the birth of "gaming" mice just half a decade ago and look how far we have gone and how much progress has been made to develop navigation technology. I consider ourselves to still be in the early stages of non-mechanical mouse technology and there is plenty of room for improvements and innovations to further increase the performance of the best sensors. Just like CPU's that have recently just exceeded the average users' need to handle daily tasks, laser engines, like I said before, will eventually exceed our physical capabilities in terms of speed and precision and will be able to maintain stability during the harshest battles. These are the kinds of life stories that make this diary thread true to it's name.

 

In my opinion, laser sensors are far more finicky about what surfaces you put them on than optical mice, although they both have preferences. Optical sensors don't like reflective or shiny surfaces; I've noticed that when my eXactMat gets wet from my hand sweat, mousing over the wet area will cause the cursor to go nuts. Lasers tend to prefer hard surfaces over soft ones, in my experience.

Also, eww, inverted Y-axis.

 

I think that applies for all sensors, and including old mechanical mice. When I used to have my MX 1100, when sweat built up on my QcK mini, it would track like garbage. And with my G9x, when a layer of sweat and condensation forms on my I-1, the sensor will skip a beat, though not as severe as my MX 1100 or optical mice. Hell, even my ball mouse hates sweat. The ball picks up the moisture from the surface and becomes slippery and picks up dirt and crap and screws up the rollers. I'm surprised they haven't rusted yet.

Blame GoldenEye 007 for that. I've been an inverted player ever since. Damn, it's been 13 years already? Time to download GoldenEye: Source to frag noobs with nostalgia.

 

Way ahead of you.

 

The latest beta is looking really good. I can't wait until they wrap things up and launch it. When I last tried it in beta two, I started loading the stage tracks with the original Bond OST's since the new ones sounded a bit too techno. But the gameplay was very much a revival of the old school N64 version. No passive crosshairs, one second reloads, slappers, remote mines, camping the body armor. Oh god, it's bliss.

 

Necromance activate.

It's weird going from a Habu to a G9. The G9 is such a flat mouse compared to the Habu.

And I can't decide which grip I like better.

 

Even for a claw grip, I prefer the rubbery one.

I've mentioned my annoyance with the middle mouse button before, but now with the Logitech software, I made it so left and right scrolling is the same as the middle mouse button.

I'll post back at some point after I see if this is comfortable in games.

 

Heh, I shoulda thought of that when I had my G9.

 

I'm liking the wide/comfort/rubbery grip right now. The other one is too slick.

I'm asking Logitech about the G9 ID/custom grips. Those look more like the fit I want.

 

Everything I've read about the custom decaled ones says the design fades quickly. Make sure you're getting the grips for the right reason, and not because you want to have a mouse with your favorite tribal design on it...

 

Precision grip all the way. The wide load one has that camel hump I don't like.

The ID grip tries to mimic the G5 grip, but has more sharp angles. Also, some people complain about the grip because since it extends further out in the back, the back part will drag against the mousepad due to the absence of mouse feet. The only mouse feet that are on the ID grip are located on the thumbrest just like on the wide load grip. You can always buy a few mouse feet and stick them on.

 

Now I'm happy with my G9x. With the wheel tilt set to work like the middle mouse button I was able to play without any issues. Typically when I tried to hit the middle mouse button it would recognize it as two middle mouse button clicks, which seriously messed up game play.

 

Actually, if they did a grip with the shape of the ID grip but with no design, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

If what Soviet says is true, then I'd probably like the ID grip best.

 

I'm thinking of getting the Razer Orochi and the Razer Kabuto for my notebook. Anyone have experience with both of these?

My biggest concern is that the bluetooth connection will not be stable and may drop during gaming or regular usage. It would be great if someone could give more insight on this.

 

I've had an Orochi for several months, although I've been using it with a Vespula pad rather than the Kabuto.

The Bluetooth connection is perfectly stable; as long as you're within range (something like 10+ feet), you're not going to have dropped connections or anything like that. Keep in mind that wired mode is still better for gaming than Bluetooth mode, simply because in BT mode the Orochi is limited to 2,000 DPI and 125Hz polling/8ms response, while in wired mode it has access to the full 4,000 DPI and 1,000Hz polling/1ms response. This is just a limitation of the Bluetooth technology rather than the Orochi itself.

That said, gaming in BT mode is not impossible, just not quite as great due to the lag. Still, for "normal" mouse use, it's perfect and you'll likely never notice the difference.

 

I use my orochi on my vespula as well. I nevergo into wireless as well. I take out the batteries and leave it in wired mode and the thing is so light that you can get headshots really fast.

 

Hey guys I have some questions, was wondering about the upcoming cyborg rat 9 mouse http://cyborggaming.com/prod/rat9.htm
-1ms response time
-5600dpi
It isnt bluetooth right?
is the 2.4hz as speedy as a wired mouse? What is this type of connectivity anyway, usb? is it good? known issues with it?

I really just want the speediest wireless (non bluetooth) mouse I can find. But if they all are going to have lag/response problems I'll probably just buy a G9x (wired) or the rat 7 (same but wired)

are there any wireless mice out there that can contend with wired these days?
thanks in advance
Any opinions?

 

that thing looks like a transformer!

 

No, it's not bluetooth. It should be pretty speedy, and it'll connect to a dongle in a USB port.

5600DPI? That's just stupid. What is the point? You're talking about is a 4.5 micrometer resolution. That's the size of a single bacterium. Thinking that is of ANY use whatsoever in gaming is... beyond lunacy. Moving your mouse from edge to edge across a normal mousepad (7.5") would move it across almost 22 1920x1080 resolution screens. Your muscles CANNOT use that kind of accuracy, doubly so in a fast-paced gaming situation.

Really, some of the specs of mice these days... it's pointless. The tool will not make up for a lack of skill, and it can even make things worse. I get better accuracy than most of the people I play with, and always better than the L4D2 bots, with a cheap bluetooth mouse.

 

Presumably the RAT 9 is USB wireless, and from what I've read, its wireless mode is low-latency as well.

Another one you may want to look at is the Razer Mamba. It's also got a 5,600 DPI laser and wired/wireless modes, with 1ms response in both modes, and 7 programmable buttons.

And don't listen to Pitabred; sure, you may not need 5,600 DPI now, but you can always adjust the DPI and your in-game sensitivity settings to a comfortable level. I run my DeathAdder at the full 3,500 DPI and customize my game settings accordingly.

 

I run my G9x at 5600 dpi and it feels great with lowered sensitivity. Don't call 5600 dpi excessive until you've tried it. Also, 1ms as compared to anything else feels much better. Going from the default setting of 2ms to the 1ms setting made a surprisingly noticeable difference.

Pitabread, if you're competitive with a normal mouse, you need better opponents.

 

I may need better opponents, but I am also near the limits of my skill given the amount of time I can devote to gaming and practice. I used to be much better back in college when I had nothing to do but game, and I still used a regular mouse. Top 10% in online UT ranking back in the day, and that was getting close to the limits of what I could do with lots of practice.

5600DPI will do nothing for you if you turn down the sensitivity. It's the exact same as turning down the DPI. Changing the latency may have a perceptible effect, but it's still very much near the limits of human physiology, which makes the statements dubious at best.

 

Not everyone needs a high-performance gaming mouse, but there's nothing inherently wrong with having one. I recommend gaming-grade mice to non-gamers just because they are superior in all aspects.

 

hmm the mamba does look tempting, it seems to have the same specs as the rat 9. this is probly my new 2nd choice
(i just love all the customability in the rat 9) quick questions for mamba owners:
-does it get hot?
-14 hours wireless?
-charge time?
-any things you dont like about it?
-surfaces u cant use it on?
hmm where can i try it out??

 

You can just find anywhere with the Deathadder (ie Best Buy) they have the same shape.

 

also the rat 9 cant connect via usb cable like the mamba (i use my mouse ALOT) that MAY be a dealbreaker, hmm