Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Well, sometimes the best method is to look for stuff in Windows itself and not into overly complicated stuff (as to which program caused it because if you just want to prevent this from happening for ANY program, then targeting a select software might only be attacking the symptom as opposed to the underlying cause).
Going through an intermediary program (such as Acer utility) can be problematic.
When you mentioned you used an Acer utility to set this and after looking for examples online I found a detailed explanation that went into services, etc... but, it was too complex.
Then I saw someone mentioning the power options, so I went in there to have a look at what I can find and I stumbled upon what I mentioned (and it seemed a lot easier and far more 'direct').

Windows 10 may be different than other versions of Windows, but many options still exist for customization (more so than Apple I think)... its just less obvious to the regular user (because they are not too bothered by going into too much detail) and hidden under the new UI.
Its relatively easy to access.

 

Yes, it ships with Ryzen Master installed, I can do 4.0 all core with SMT enabled or 4.1 with it disabled, and the machine has the cooling to sustain it.

 

Hi guys, I just got this laptop and also interested in moding the power tables.

Where can we get custom power tables for our video card? Or something that can extract the vbios on our card and use it to modify our power tables.

 

I dont see any options for sharing files on this forum.

 

Hi.

May be you can place the files on a file sharing site as Dropbox, and provide a link to the files here.

Regards Carsten.

 

You can upload files to share, but only up to 2MB:

 

Use it on your own risk! Open, and restart a pc. DONE!

Vega 56 unlocked potencial with 196w power limit! With this powerplay table dont push cpu more than 3.9ghz beacuse cpu eats alot of watts.

Use 1480mhz on core 940mhz on memory, in my case i can push to 1510mhz and memory 950mhz stable 24/7.

I can post custom timings for ram too, but is not a final version. (you can increase performance 5% more, only for experienced).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6e4q64cgvj0cfpz/Vega 56 mobile SoftPowerPlayTable power 60.reg?dl=0

 

The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension.

 

But .zip is supported? Find the file in explorer and right click choosing "send to -> Compressed (zipped) folder".

 

Another time, i will go to work now

 

These power play tables definitely work. I am seeing an easy 25%+ increase once power limits are removed. Out of curiosity what voltages did you need to get to 1450/900 and beyond?

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/20517181/fs/20516847#

 

Stock 900mv for 1500/950. If you want to go beyond the limit i think you need a stock vega 56 bios because its hard coded into bios and every time reverts back to 900mv or you got a big nasty bsod (i almost kiled my gpu with wrong settings) . This vega have really veird powertables/bios, and its realy efficient (stock vega have 1200mv). Maybe raising soc v or 140A to 200A (desktop vega 56 have 300A) in powerplay can push vega 56 even higher, but i didnt tried.

 

On mine it wasn't stable at higher clock speeds unless i set both GPU/Memory to 950mV. The settings did not get reverted after rebooting or anything, and with the power limit unlocked the increased performance is stable. Maybe it is because I am using 19.9.1?

 

Interesting, didnt know that. If you have time, can you please check if you have the same issue when you wipe drivers with DDU in safe mode, reinstall stock drivers from acer site and quick install the same stable version which i have from amd site.

 

I i think i have 19.5.2 (i am at work right now)

 

Thanks for the power tables. Im having the same issue as you, i can not Change voltages. I tried ddu and install latest drivers but still can not Change values.

Aside from that, power tables works and let me squeeze more performance.
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/8636002/spy/8547269

 

Did you try installing afterburner and unlocking AMD overclocking? I have to do that to be able to adjust anything on mine, without it wattman doesn't work at all.

 

yes I have MSI afterburner and wattman installed. just like xdyphx said everytime i change the voltage from 900mv to anything higher it will just go back to 900mv. I tried it with 19.5.2 driver and also 19.9.1
Whats the highest clock did you reach? Im stable at 1455 mhz core and 960 mhz hbm. Anything higher than that it freeze.

 

Increasing mV in afterburner not working at all, only undervolting works. You can set 50mV but changes nothing.

OverdriveNTool says values are above driver limits and you cant change more than 900mV

 

How do you unlock unofficial overclock mode on our card? I tried editing the config file but still its all greyed out.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/acer-predator-vega-56-ryzen-2-helios-500.817796/page-69 read my post.

 

Acer released a new BIOS update for our unit:

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/support-product/7737?b=1

Update EC code (BIOS version 1.09).

If I'm not mistaken, EC stands for 'embedded controller'.

However, there is nothing which says WHAT changes/updates this brings.
Does it bring Zen 2 support, or something else?

Also, new Predator Sense seems to be uploaded too (from 23/08/2019).
Hadn't seen it... might be worth installing that too.

Opinions?

 

EC brings to gigabyte motherboards ryzen 3000 support Who knows

 

No update of CPU microcode, no update of SMU firmware. Maybe this will at least stop my "freeze at wake" problem...

 

May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion?

 

By looking at the microcode revision and SMU firmware revision using HWiNFO64 after updating. Still at versions 8008206 and 43.19.0 respectively as they were with the 1.07 BIOS, possibly before.
While Windows may update the CPU microcode I don't think it touches the SMU firmware.

 

Likely embedded controller updates related to compatibility with the new PredatorSense given there is no other explanation in the release notes. I need to boot into MacOS and see if it helps with the keyboard detection issue.

 

Long time lurker on this thread, been waiting on either a new BIOS that supports the 3000 series or a revised notebook from Acer / Asus. Fingers crossed on either at this point... but I saw some interesting news this morning and figured I'd share:

Supposedly there is a 3900 65w 12-core part coming soon. (Biostar leaked it at the bottom of this CPU compatibility chart: https://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=962#cpusupport)

 

You can put even 3900x inside because eats only 140watts. All we need is new bios.

 

The Helios ships with and is likely designed for a 65W processor, assuming the cooling and VRMs are capable of over the double is more than a bit optimistic. But isn't the 3900x about 100W TDP?

Given that Acer haven't even updated simple modules (e.g. the GOP graphics driver) with this latest release we will have to do it ourselves. There are some resources for AGESA modding on for instance overclock.net and desktop motherboards have been successfully modded so it's not impossible. A notebook computer isn't a desktop though.

 

2700 eats much more than 65watts with boost (65w menas only if runs at 3.2ghz). 2700x is better binned, even with the same clocks, 2700x is more efficient, this is the reason why i have 2700x inside. Check 3700x and 3800x (65w and 105w cpu). With full load, 3700x eats more with the same clocks.

 

Thanks, I really don't understand modern TDP definitions.

 

I tell you why acer picked 2700 instead 2700x, 2700 have much better voltage control (2700x spikes really high because is faster and is agressive) and is probally unstable (ok it is) when you perform multiple tasks on battery at the same time (gaming, yt music and internet). Another reason is, you dont really need 2700x for gaming, both can handle 4.0ghz (but 2700x is cooler under load). Because of voltage spikes 2700x can became really noisy because cpu can (and want) reach higher clocks.

 

Can you overclock your 2700x on our system? That would Eat too much power dont you think?

 

It works at 4.0ghz stable 24/7, but i use it at 3.9ghz with increased gpu power limit and it works without problems. And remember, gaming is not stresfull for cpu, draws only 70w max in gta5.

 

I see
I remember you said you reached 1559 mhz on your vega 56 and almost Got to 1080 level performance. How Did you Change your voltages on your gpu?
1450 mhz seems to be the limit in mine, since I cant Change My voltage.

 

Its funny because in predatorsense files you can see max 1451mhz overclocked by acer, probaly is locked from acer in preinstaled windows. All i can say, try with new windows or wipe driver with ddu. I tried all drivers and all drivers works with 1501-1511/950mhz stable at stock voltage.

And i beat stock 1080

 

It looks like BIOSTAR removed the 3900 / 65w reference and only the 3900x / 105w remains. I had seen the 3900 / 65w mentioned elsewhere before this as an AMD Pro sku.

Here's Tom's Hardware's take:

AMD's Upcoming Ryzen 9 3900 Listed With 12 Zen 2 Cores at 65W
by Zhiye Liu September 26, 2019 at 10:30 AM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-3900-specs-pro-cpu,40485.html

"...It's unknown when AMD will launch the Ryzen 9 3900 and Ryzen 9 Pro 3900. The chipmaker is probably busy building up stock for the Ryzen 9 3950X, which has been pushed to November, and preparing the Ryzen Threadripper 3000-series release. On top of that, TSMC is reportedly in a bit of a pickle. The foundry's 7nm business has been booming lately, and high demand has increased the lead time from 2 months to 6 months. This could have an impact on AMD's CPU production."

It's all up in the air now what with 7nm production not being able to meet demand for AMD Ryzen / Navi chips... hopefully TSMC adds shifts or converts fab space to 7nm production.

 

Even at stock settings our ryzen 2700 can still match recently released desktop replacement laptops. It would be Great if we can upgrade it to zen2 but im happy with what i have right now.

8 core cpu with capable vega 56, that can surpass 2060 and match 2070 max q with tuning.

$1299 Compared to $3000 laptops

 

2700 is still one of the best cpus for laptops, only i9 9980hk is better which you need to pay premium for such a minimal upgrade.

 

Indeed.
Not worth the price or performance difference.
The 2700 seems plenty powerful enough.

Some rumors seem to suggest that Zen 3 will come with SMT4 and 4 threads per core.
That's interesting if accurate. It means that an 8 core CPU (such as say 4700x - if AMD names it that) might come with 32 threads total.

However, what would be the impact of having double the amount of threads per core in regards to power consumption?
Would the cpu have higher, same or lower TDP?

From Intel, we seem to know that hyperthreading increases peak power consumption but lowers average power consumption.

Taking 7nm+ into consideration, we could potentially see same clocks and boosts as existing Zen2 parts, but with primary changes being with uArch tuning and inclusion of SMT4, whereas higher clocked versions would obviously have higher peak power demands.

It also depends on how AMD goes about this, right?
I think I read something about AMD simply using current uArch more efficiently by maxing out its 'potential' within the core... so this implementation could potentially mean no change in power consumption despite increase in threads.

 

It's not an assumption, I've run mine at 4.0ghz all core at 1.35V without issue which is in the 125W region for power use. With fans on max it tops out around 78C. I usually leave them on auto which maintains around 85C. There doesn't appear to be a power limitation on the CPU side, at least with normal CPU limits. A 3900X should run fine at stock.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...ga-graphics-available-9-7-5-athlon,40508.html

3900 12core 24threads 65w is official.

 

Guys. This is an emergency:
I installed the latest bios into the laptop (1.09).
It seems that it killed the machine.
It activates but refuses to post.

Ideas and options?
Any way to restore the bios to previous version without rma-ing the unit?

Or do I need to send it to acer for RMA?
And if so, will I need to pay for the repair? How can I avoid paying for the repairs btw as I'm not in a good position with cash?
Avoid telling them I installed the latest bios and just tell them the machine decided to stop posting suddenly?

The display is not activating and keyboard lights have returned to stock.

This is insane. I need the laptop to work for college classes and now this happens.
It's unacceptable that Acer released a faulty BIOS update in 2019 that kills the machine.
They should have a bios restore option available.

I tried holding FN and ESC keys together when powering up the laptop with a usb flash drive (formatted to fat32) v1.08 bios extracted onto it from the exe file..
And while the power indicator light started blinking as it should, the usb stick did not activate at all.
I can try another usb stick and see if that works, but not sure.

 

I think its covered by their warranty. I had issue with mine last time when I set memory latency too low. I just reset my cmos, but I think that wont work in your laptop.

 

Try the other USB ports. Sometimes recovery flashing is specific

 

Contact Acer to know how recovery should be done on this specific machine, sometimes there's some quirk. One common thing is that the drive should be small (I have a low capacity drive for just that purpose).

 

I used an 8gb flash drive (don't have a 4GB one at my disposal) formatted to fat32. I didn't have the option to format to fat16.
I also tried formatting to NTFS, but the stick still isn't activating.
And yes, I tried different USB ports, but still nothing.

I had an issue with this machine and bootable USB sticks before when I tried to do a clean Windows install.
I had to use RUFUS to format my stick to a UEFI bootable option I think (there were several to choose from), otherwise, the stick would simply not activate (and of course I couldn't do a fresh Windows install because the setup said it cannot detect the partition or something).

 

Via phone or support ticket, or which option?

 

These are the same symptoms my machine had when it died. Did you try the battery reset switch directly above the SSD slots? I believe it has to be held for 30 seconds to perform an EC reset - but Acer support would know for sure since they have access to the service manual.

Does your machine still have warranty coverage? If it does then you just have to pay shipping costs to the repair center, and they should cover the repair and return shipping. I spent a week or so trying to recover my machine but eventually had to give up and ship it to the repair center. I think they must have ordered the replacement parts from Taiwan because it took about three weeks to complete the repair.