Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Same with the last gen Aw models with MXM graphics as well. AMD drivers support was almost none. And get it to work with divers from AMD's own download page wasn't much better.

 

AMD committed to fixing the mobile GPU drivers situation end of last year, and have done so:

AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processors with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD Ryzen Mobile laptop - Enter the Fast Lane
Featuring the world’s fastest processor for ultrathin laptops1, the AMD Ryzen™ 7 3700U Mobile Processor with Radeon™ RX Vega 10 Graphics.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/ryzen-processors-laptop

Click on "Learn More" for your specific GPU and follow links to latest (and previous) driver downloads. Click on the "DRIVERS & SUPPORT" link at the top of the page for your GPU.

The desktop GPU's in laptops should be supported by desktop drivers, and if not then complain to AMD that those mobile desktop GPUs need to be included in the mobile GPU support ongoing.

Here's the Reddit coverage back when AMD announced to take up support of the mobile GPU drivers:

AMD Ryzen Mobile Driver Update
Submitted 9 months ago by AMDOfficial Official AMD Account
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9yxdu4/amd_ryzen_mobile_driver_update

"Feedback is a critical part of how AMD delivers great products. You have made it clear we have room for improvement on graphics driver updates for AMD Ryzen Mobile processor-based notebooks, both for APU-only platforms and discrete GPU notebook designs. It is important to understand that our graphics drivers are typically tailored for specific OEM platforms, so releasing generic APU graphics drivers across all AMD Ryzen mobile processor-based mobile systems could result in less-than-ideal user experiences. So what can AMD do?

We are committing to work with our OEMs to increase the release frequency of AMD Ryzen Mobile processor graphics drivers. Starting in 2019, we will target enabling OEMs to deliver a twice-annual update of graphics drivers specifically for all AMD Ryzen Mobile processor-based systems. Because the release is ultimately up to the OEMs, this may vary from platform to platform, but we want to put out a clear goal for us and our OEM partners. Those updates should be available for download on the respective OEM websites.

In addition, AMD will continue to evaluate ways in which we can offer validated graphics drivers for AMD Ryzen Mobile processor-based notebooks aligned to the latest AMD software updates, and will provide updates as soon as we are able. Thank you to the community of AMD users who voice their opinions on this issue."

Zatserkovnyy 1 point 6 months ago*
"This is a bad way. I bought a laptop based on AMD. And I can not play some games, because they require newer drivers. If nothing changes, this will be my first and last acquaintance with AMD, sorry.

upd. Less than a day and you have released drivers for mobile processors! Thank you!"

 

Honestly for the Predator series, driver updates need to be more frequent than every six months. The desktop drivers should simply just work with the laptop, as they do with the Nvidia cards on Intel models. These are gaming laptops after all, and having updated graphics drivers are usually needed to play new release games. If the driver has a bug then instead of pointing fingers AMD should just take ownership of the issue and get it sorted out with Acer.

 

IDK if you've noticed, but when you download drivers from Nvidia they are labeled "notebook" and "desktop" depending on what you are downloading.

Now, you can often download "desktop" drivers from Nvidia and use them on a laptop, but also quite often when a new laptop comes out the card codes aren't included in the driver and even "notebook" drivers won't install on a new laptop, and it may be several months before this changes - there are threads here on NBR how to work around that by editing in the ID code for your GPU into the driver config files.

It's true though that AMD needs to do the same for the desktop GPU's in laptops as they've done for the mobile GPU's, provide timely updated drivers - or make the desktop drivers / software 100% compatible.

Given AMD is only just getting back into laptops, I'm sure they know all about these needs and will address them as soon as possible. It may be why we aren't seeing more AMD CPU / GPU laptops as vendor support needs to be staffed and caught up before making a big push into that market.

It's impressive how quickly AMD is responding to every issue that I've seen come up recently, AMD is really dedicated to making it all work for everyone as quickly as possible.

So give AMD a chance, report your problems and desires to their customer feedback channels (post included above) and let them work with you to fix the problems.

 

Well, I got a reply from AMD Tech support:
" Please be informed this has been already escalated to the team internally and its under investigation and will be resolved soon with the latest update which will be available shortly, please wait for the next driver update. I appreciate your patience in this regard.

Thanks for contacting AMD

 

I actually agree that this is more OEM responsibility than AMD's.
In this case, Acer (and Asus) have completely dropped the ball.
What was the point in making these laptops, charge a premium for them and then drop support a few short months after release?
Oh wait... profit.
Both AMD and Asus should have ended up releasing BIOS updates and GPU updates to support these units much like they do for their desktop parts.

Motherboard manufacturers (like Asus) frequently end up releasing BIOS support for years after the product was released (and they get no extra revenue for doing so).
In the case of laptops, the OEM's negligence is quite frankly criminally offensive and I'm sick of it already. Its 2019... and we're nowhere near OEM's behaving as they should in regards to laptops (they keep locking up the BIOS, make it in some cases impossible to upgrade, etc.).

Should AMD take ownership of these things?
Probably... but it also takes away responsibility from OEM's to step up and do what they should have done in the first place.
I can understand OEM's supporting their products for a few years and then dropping support to move on to newer things... but dropping support in totality with desktop grade hw 6 months down the line is moronically offensive.

 

Wow, that's awesome, are you going to cross communicate that to Acer too via a ticket or email to Acer support?

 

Already sent an email to Acer about the driver issue (which included a request for them to consider updating the BIOS to include Zen 2 support too).
But I may send another one with AMD's response.

 

Acer seems to have a "bug has to exist in the current drivers to get an update" stance. So are there any games that have issues if they don't have the latest drivers installed?

 

19.5.2 drivers seem to work pretty great for Vega 56 performance-wise and I hadn't encountered any issues while playing 'Control' game.

Acer could have used those drivers for reference to update their ageing drivers.

Generally, I don't think newest games have a problem unless AMD specifically optimizes the GPU for them to extract more performance and stabilize gameplay - which seems to have been centered around Navi mostly (since none of the changelogs mention Vega fixes/updates after Navi's release, except in the 'known issues' that Vega VII might experience clocks being stuck - something AMD has yet to get around to).
But staying updated would be recommended for newer games as we cannot expect to be 'cruising' on 19.5.2. drivers indefinitely.
There are other options to consider that can come from drivers (such as content creation software stability, etc.).

Another problem is that people complained of performance drops on Vega gpu's with latest drivers as well (which was mentioned in an article explaining that 19.6.2 drivers [I think] cause performance drops on Vega as well) - but this issue was never addressed (and it started appearing after AMD released drivers for Navi). Incidentally, it was then I encountered the static noise problems... hence I stayed with 19.5.2 drivers for now.

 

That is good to hear that Control works well. I was thinking about picking up Borderlands 3 to see how it works, with both the Acer drivers and 19.5.2. If it needs 19.9.1 or even 19.5.2 to run the game stable or without glitches then maybe that would warrant enough for Acer to provide an update?

 

This is an easy fix, go to the video card in device manager, roll back the driver and tell it to no longer update this device automatically. This will prevent Windows from overwriting the display drivers in the future.

 

Where is the option to tell it to no longer update the device automatically?
Because, I think its already disabled... but Windows Update still downloads the generic drivers for Vega and makes Radeon Settings inoperable.

 

Shutup10 also provides that functionality amongst other things.

I use it as well for all my machines to prevent in-needed driver "upgrades"

 

I use wushowhide to block the driver update.

 

It's an option when you roll back the driver - so process is this, update the driver, let (or force) windows to update and presumably overwrite the just installed driver, then roll back the driver via device manager and tell it not to update again. This should stop auto driver updates for that device.

Alternately, if you don't want it to update any drivers, you can do this:
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/disable-automatic-driver-downloads-on-windows-10

 

I really found a killer use for this thing today - Oculus Quest + ReliveVR connected directly to the built in 5g wireless on the Helios. Gives full on PC VR, but portable and with no cords attached to the headset.

 

They released a new driver yesterday (9/12) and it still has the issue waking from sleep. Kind of a pita, basically means I either leave it running, shut it all the way down or hibernate it instead of sleep. Luckily it boots in about 10 seconds so it's not a big deal.

 

Have you tried hibernate or enabling Hybrid sleep to see if it reacts differently?

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/difference-between-sleep-hybrid-sleep-and-hibernation-in-windows-7

https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg-explains-should-you-shut-down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/

I've been annoyed with the constant interruption of successful sleep mode for so long, new drivers or OS updates breaking sleep, that I gave up on it long ago. For other reasons - saving disk space on the C partition mostly - I disable hibernation too, so I just do a shutdown - or carry the laptop from room to room - closing the lid with the option set to do nothing when lid is closed.

 

Yeah, but the new driver (19.9.2) may have been too close to the release of me raising the problem with AMD technical support.
AMD might not have had enough time to implement a solution (if they even found it).
The fix might come with the next version instead.

 

AMD “will consider adding support” for RIS on Vega, but has no plans to right now

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/vega-radeon-image-sharpening

Seriously?
They skip this on the grounds of 'popularity'?
Meh... I'm starting to think AMD decided to shun Vega completely (which might explain latest driver problems Helios 500 users experience with static noise on screen when bringing the laptop out of sleep mode and some other issue desktop users experienced).

 

Hibernate seems to work fine so I switched to that.

 

To all owners of Helios 500 with Ryzen/Vega.
Let's try voting to see if AMD will integrate Radeon Image Sharpening and Anti-Lag support for Vega.
https://www.feedback.amd.com/se/5A1E27D203B57D32

 

But RAL already works on all GCN and RDNA GPUs?

 

Great idea, here's the current counts:


I didn't see an option for "ray-tracing support"

 

Neither have I, however (admittedly), I was not even looking for it.

AMD said they will integrate raytracing probably into RDNA2 that's coming next year.
This could imply hw level of implementation, but I'm not sure.
Their patent for RT doesn't seem to imply specialized hw for RT but rather a different approach to using existing hw and software.

If it does use proprietary hw, I'm not too bothered with it given that it's still a feature that I don't really need in games.

If they can enable the RT feature via driver updates, I'd be all for it. But if that happens it will probably be for newest GPUs rather than the older ones (at least at first).

Right now I'd rather AMD focused on enabling the above features on all their GPUs they can along with improving latency and stability.

I'd also like to see better support from pro software for AMD hw. If AMD can somehow collaborate with the devs so they'd start using open source solutions more than NV proprietary ones (as the open source would work on NV as well without issues - any of which can be resolved via simple driver support), that would be acceptable.

 

That's the last "leak" that a game developer spilled about Console RT-RT being in Console hardware, which is interesting as AMD has said nothing, just like in that survey.

If nothing else that means AMD doesn't consider RT-RT open to user choice, kinda like Nvidia, it's just pushed on us along with the extra costs.

If they (AMD / Nvidia) asked me I said wait another 5-10 years, wait for the hardware to catch up so that's not a sacrifice to FPS or developers time.

Ray-tracing is not worth spending 50% more on silicon and time for development, and to take time from the development of games wasting time integrating the changes required.

Game developers that have decided to pass on RT-RT - putting it at the bottom of their lists of things to do aren't giving in to Nvidia pressure, and now apparently AMD pressure.

RT-RT is a waste of time and resources in trade for nothing I am interested in. Games already looked amazing, and I'm not fooled by games that dull down their non-RT looks to make RT ON stand out, it's a shell game - the game was already pretty don't hide it under the RT-RT shell game.

 

I'm playing Control game on my Helios 500 easily enough without RT, and quite frankly, the only difference you'd notice it on was glass, however, the game itself is already designed to look quite good anyway, so RT doesn't really 'add' anything to the game except a visual gimmick.
I even maxed out the game and the laptop is still barely more audible than without being fully stressed and runs great (I think the FPS is a bit below 60 fully maxed out, but its not that noticeable).
I'd need to play with the undervolting a bit on the GPU as I'd like to optimize it a bit (its always good to undervolt if possible - especially in a laptop), but otherwise I'm happy with what I have.

Control as a game though... meh its a tad boring to be honest (but works fine with 19.5.2 drivers).
Sure, I could probably extract more performance and hit 60FPS (or over) with driver updates (but without undervolting and/or HBM overclock), but until AMD fixes the static noise problem, not worth the hassle.

Like I said, if AMD can bring RT to all their GPU's with driver upgrades, I'd be all for it... but otherwise, not hard pressed about it... and instead, I'd prefer they focus on integrating existing features across their GPU lines, improving performance, stability, and lowering latency.
Since AMD is using Open Source to get all the 'features'... they'd be more or less implementable with driver upgrades for time to come across their entire GPU line (or at least from Polaris onwards - Vega included).

 

Pretty comical considering the V56/64 were the best selling high end AMD cards released in years (admittedly the majority went into bitcoin mines but they can't prove that! ).

 

Have anyone else ever had a problem with waking from sleep? As in apparently not even attempting with a black screen and power+battery LEDs on?

 

Which graphics driver version are you using? I have seen this happen under Linux with the 19.30 series drivers. It seems to be an alternate version of the static noise on resume. If on Windows try 19.5.2 or instead try switching to hibernate only.

This was also the same symptoms I had when my system was bricked and the only way to fix it was send it in for a motherboard replacement. But that was a black screen on cold boot.

 

Yeah, read back a couple of pages, it's a driver issue. Switch to hibernate instead of sleep and it should work fine.

 

I noticed on my Vega 10 and Vega 56 with newer drivers they sometimes wake up randomly from hibernation or out right reset themselves, it only happens rarely after you use hibernation often.

Sent fra min SM-G970F via Tapatalk

 

That's the symptom I experience. Absolutely nothing happens except the power+battery leds going on, the power is always lit (cable attached) but that the battery light goes on shows either the BIOS or the keyboard/power controller chip does something. There is no access to the SSD so don't think Windows or drivers can be involved?

Thanks will try that. Problem is this is extremely rare so it's hard to troubleshoot, happened 2 to 3 times since I starting using the helios. Had another machine with similar problems that was fixed by a BIOS update.

Have had problems with random wakeups from sleep at night but think I fixed that by changing the update check scheduling of the Acer utilities.

 

it'll come in due time. amd is finally getting funds so they can also enter the laptop market and not just on the cpu side, gpu as well. 1-2yrs i'd say.

for now acer should release a bios capable of ryzen 3000 cpu at least up to the 8 core version. technically if allowed you might be even able to use 12 cores with SMT turned off. is Acer not doing this or whats going on

 

The 2700 has been pretty good performance for me. Obviously its not as good as a 9900K or even the 9980HK, but it still keeps up just fine. It's a shame they haven't announced a Helios 700 with Zen2 / 5700 yet. I was really hoping they would!

 

ask them to release a bios update why purchase a new machine when your current one works just fine? swap 2700 with 3700 and you good

 

On that ground, I may have something.
I sent a e-mail to Acer about the driver issue, and I also mentioned they should upgrade the BIOS.
Here's my full email, followed by Acer's reply:
"I noticed that you haven't updated your GPU drivers for this unit in a long time.
AMD has been releasing new drivers concurrently, but it seems that latest drivers (19.9.1) are causing a static noise on the display upon waking the unit from sleep mode, and this issue is happening on all units that have tried updating their drivers.
The issue persists after trying to clean install AMD drivers as well (by running the DDU utility to clean the old ones).

I am currently using 19.5.2 drivers which function correctly (and have preserved Freesync functionality by simply Express updating your stock drivers to 19.5.2 version).

Acer should do more to support the unit given its still a technically new product and people are actually purchasing it right now (or are considering it - many would in fact buy it if you guaranteed support for Zen 2 CPU's as well).

Also, AMD released new AGESA sfor B450 motherboards which supports Zen 2 processors that have been released.
Upon further research from other Helios 500 Ryzen/Vega users, this unit has a more than large enough BIOS chip which would allow you/Acer to upgrade it so it includes Zen 2 (and upcoming Zen 3) support.

I would also offer a suggestion that you could include BIOS support for Zen 2 on our B450 motherboards by asking a small fee for this upgrade of current Acer Predator 500 users (this would more than make up for your time in updating the BIOS, and you could also consider unlocking the BIOS completely as they are on desktops as well).

I have been in contact with AMD Tech support about the driver issue and they mentioned they have escalated the issue and are looking to address the static noise problem, however I do think Acer should do its own share of the workload and communicate with AMD to update both the BIOS and GPU drivers.

This is a premium gaming and productivity machine with awesome potential.
Don't let this slip by you."

Acer's reply:

"Thank you for contacting Acer. Regarding your query.
We supply the base drivers for the Amd GPU. The rest of the driver updates will come directly from AMD
The best thing I can recommend is to roll back to a previous driver as this may be an issue with the driver itself.
I do apologise for the problem you are experiencing and thank you for bringing it to our attention.
There will be more updates available for this device coming soon.
Kind regards
Acer Group"

If I recall correctly, on Acer's forums, the other users of Helios 500 with Ryzen/Vega mentioned that Acer has no intention of supporting Zen 2.
However, this reply casts potential doubt onto that.
I'm not saying we WILL get Zen 2 (or Zen 3) BIOS updates, but the possibility may exist.

Having said that, I do think 2700 has enough performance right now, so I'm not in a big hurry to upgrade.
What I WOULD consider upgrading to would be, Zen 3.
Its another uArch change with improvements across the board... made on 7nm EUV (with better yields and thus higher clocks), and of course higher IPC (however modest it may be vs Zen 2).
Compounding this alteration vs 2700, and I think a 4700 (or 4700x) equivalent of 8 cores and 16 threads would be an even better upgrade option.

Is it possible that mentioning I've been in contact with AMD may have changed Acer's perspective on this unit in regards to future BIOS updates?
It would be nice, but I doubt that was the case (if it is the case in the first place).

However, one other thing is that AMD suggests using Acer's drivers... Acer on the other hand says that new drivers are mainly AMD's responsibility (which technically they Are, but Acer also has a responsibility in updating their drivers for this unit).


P.S. One other thing to mention in regards to the drivers... they do seem to occasionally cause the unit to wake up in the middle of the night out of sleep mode by itself.

P.P.S. Newest drivers (post 19.5.2.) seem to cause static noise to appear on the display when bringing the unit from sleep mode. I suggest avoiding newest drivers and sticking with 19.5.2 version until AMD fixes the problem (in the meantime, we can pester them both with this and Zen 2/Zen 3 support).

 

Could you describe which Acer utility you used and what exactly have you done?

EDIT: I went into Power options and under Ryzen Balanced Mode, I changed Advanced Power Settings - Sleep - Allow Wake Times - Plugged In: Disable.

That might just do the trick. It was set to 'Important Wake Timers Only'

 

imo 3700 is a big leap over 2700. general ipc is only about 15% but when comes to specific ones like fp and int workload its much higher which is used in a lot of area, especially with a big cache size and power efficiency, this is probably the best upgrade you would get aside from the GPU upgrade, which you never get it on CPU if it were intel.

if Acer doesnt support bios update for this laptop to support zen2 or 3 then no point buying their product line anymore even if it comes with a CPU socket. i'd just continue to buy their cheap $200 disposable book.

 

I have to say there is little point in making a socketed cpu based laptop if the OEM won't include bios updates for future CPUs on the same socket. It kinda defeats the purpose. Plus they could have just soldered the thing to the mobo like they did with the gpu if they had no intention of updating the bios to support zen 2 and 3

 

not necessary.
soldered cpu means you pay for cpu + gpu when mobo needs a replacement
soldered cpu means you pay for cpu + mobo when a gpu needs a replacement
or your cpu is 1600 and want to go 8 cores down the road etc.

but anyway upgrade to 3700 will be the biggest improvement one can hope for, this isnt something like intel quad core to quad core 6700k 7700k with 100mhz improvement. this is like 15-20% performance boost while reducing temp due to power consumption reduced by 20-25% vs 2700.

you can basically choose to have no power saving and take that 25% and overclock 3700 to get higher frequency.

2700 3.2 base 4.1 boost, probably all core frequency ~3.6ghz ish?
3700 3.6 base 4.4 boost, prob ~4.0 all core boost, overclock that 4.2ghz all core and have the same power consumption.

4.2/3.6 * 1.15 = ~34% performance improvement, for fp/int its more like 50%, biggest upgrade you can get.

 

It's actually normal/standard for laptop manufacturers to withhold BIOS updates for socketed laptops that would increase CPU support, you almost never see it. I.E Dell never supporting Ivy Bridge on their Sandy Bridge gaming/professional laptops despite the fact some of them were still getting BIOS updates 8 years after launch.

You see laptop manufacturers don't (normally) put sockets on their products to improve the user upgradability (hence why they don't use the socket as a marketing factor) or even to allow themselves to change the CPU options without releasing a new laptop. They do it to reduce the cost to themselves if it breaks under warranty. Spending $1-2 on a socket and some extra assembly time/effort is well worth it to them to avoid having to bin a $100+ CPU because the motherboard died or vice versa.

 

Hi.

I can remember a post on page 69 where user 'xdyphx' wrote:

'I can push my gpu to the limits alone, but i hit the power limit wall (121w) and differences are minimal. Anyone found the solution how to set powerlimit with powerplay tables? I tried, sadly unsuccessful. I need 10w or 20w more.'

From: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/acer-predator-vega-56-ryzen-2-helios-500.817796/page-69

Yesterday did I read some information on powerplay tables for the Vega 56/64 desktop versions. I don't know if you can use them on the vega 56 in the Acer Predator Helios 500, but here are some links:

Hellm has created SoftPowerPlayTable key files:

https://www.overclock.net/attachments/49572

And also a link to the OverdriveNTool 0.2.7 Beta4 for PP_states addon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/equ297p3otqu28n/OverdriveNTool 0.2.7beta4.7z?dl=1

Both from page 644 in this link: https://www.overclock.net/forum/67-...r-rx-vega-owners-thread-644.html#post27611690

Regards Carsten.

 

Dont use other powertables because dont have power saving and to much volts on gpu core and memory, i made custom powertable with 180w power limit (most games runs with 130-150w only) and custom hbm2 timings and gains are big (25% and more performance increase in benchmarks, in games even more)! Laptop can handle temperatures (70c with acer coolboost) , with 64bios (but forget that) you can push even higher with that amazing cooling. I used kryonaut paste and put 2700x inside, with kryonaut i got 5c lower in gpu, on cpu i think is worse (or the same)or 2700x works different)
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/20419081/fs/20381671
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/8500191/spy/8105741

Increased performance between gtx 1080, rtx 2070 and vega 64 desktop versions.

 

Well, unlike zen2, there's actually benefit to ocing zen+, and most can hit 3.9 all core, mine does 4.0. So the jump isn't quite that big... But still very significant. I have a 3700x just waiting for me to decide which system to put it in as I'm still holding out hope for a bios update.

Can you post the power tables and clocks you're getting? I'm at 1425/900 with stock 120W, so if I could get another 50% power I'm betting this thing would really fly.

 

nonsense. zen2 actually OC a bit higher than zen+ chips in general, if you got the helio 500 and it came with 2700 non x then it is a 65w chip that isn't clocked as much as the x version which means you have more room to OC but that isn't really the problem, because if it was, you can buy an 8 core cpu with 2ghz and OC to 4ghz and call it "more headroom".

ultimately you'll want to look at the best performance and zen2 is where its at for this laptop right now if you got the bios to do so. 15% IPC improvement while reducing power by 25% is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I think you misunderstood. All I was saying is the clock difference you quoted was larger than actual, not that zen 2 isn't significantly better. It's more like 4.2/4.0 x 1.15.

 

Actually I changed the triggers for (IIRC) AcerCMUpdateTask and ACCAgent in windows task scheduler. Seemed to help but that may be just placebo.

Wow, thanks that may be the real fix! Didn't expect the modern post-Metro/modern/app/spyware Microsoft allowing users that type of control so never looked for something like It!

 

i used 3.6 as a base for zen+ because i wasn't sure if people could OC in their machine, but if you say it is 4.0 then that means you guys can oc?