Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Using the old control panels made removing the bad install easy, detecting that it wasn't really installed and removed. Wonder why MS can't support this in the normal settings app?
Anyway redoing the chipset driver install went well.

 

I've seen around 10-20% improvement on my Vega 56 with the new Drivers. Spending so much time with older drivers, that its like a big jump in performance. Granted most of the improvement are mostly game optimizations for newer games. But Man! It feels so good to have it fixed!

Also, I found this on youtube. Makes me love my Laptop more!

 

Hey guys, I installed HyperX Impact DDR4 HX426S15IB2K2/32 Memory 2666 MHz CL15 SODIMM 32 GB Kit (2x16 GB) into the Predator Helios, and for some reason, Windows is now reporting that the RAM speed is at 1866MhZ (933mhz per stick).

The laptop came pre-installed with 2x8GB (2400 MhZ), but now in quad channel with these other two sticks, the RAM is running far SLOWER.
I don't understand.
Shouldn't the RAM speed be at 2400MhZ at least?

What caused this radical reduction in ram frequency?

May have to return the ram and get my money back from Amazon to get 2*8gb 2400mhz at c17 instead from crucial?
I'm not willing to mess about with ryzen master trying to overclock the ram because that could mess up the ram entirely, and I wouldn't be able to reset the bios.

But I really don't get it.
Hyper x ram was stated it would run fine in this laptop. Do either I got a bad batch or the mismatch in sticks messed up the ram speed

 

there was discussions way back about ram frequencies dropping when using all the four slots. I tried adding Hyper X 2400 cl 14 on mine with the stock RAM and gave me 2133 mhz with all four slots.

 

Three ranks per channel is probably not optimal. I would suggest either pulling your original sticks (requires motherboard removal) or finding a matched kit with the same part number as the stock ram. If the JEDEC tables line up it should have the best chance at the bios allowing it to continue to run at 2400mhz with two sticks per channel. If you go the route of pulling the original sticks then you would also want to put one of the 16GB sticks on each side of the mainboard because the rows are not matched correctly for each channel on each side of the motherboard like you would expect. It is the only way to get DIMM A2 and B2 populated correctly. With the memory installed that way you should be able to get CL12 2400mhz with 32GB total.

Also you may want to double-check your HyperX ram is Samsung B-die. The newer Micron E-die kits are not very compatible with the older AGESA version and are tuned for operation in Intel laptops using XMP profiles.

 

Micron E-die works very well on new agesas, but on older ones they are crap. The chip was introduced a little over a year ago so you need a late 2019 bios to utilize them.

 

Assuming I need to return the ram, how would I find the correct one am to use at least 2400mhz?
It's not like I can check which ram has proper jedec in place or dies as this info is not advertised on Amazon.
Plus I tried to look for similar ram before and I couldn't find anything useful.

Obviously, pulling out the original ram sticks is not practical due to massive disassembly that's needed and the machine is too new if something goes wrong.

Great. So acer shafted us well by not providing bios updates or having xmp profiles.

I need more than 16gb as I'll be working on productivity for the next few years as a student. I don't need slow memory to cripple things further.

 

First of all, try running 2 sticks, much easier than 4 due to MB-layout. What happends if you remove the stock-ram and insert the HyperX there? I think you need to find a set of jedec 2666 certified sticks if you want 2666\2400 plug and play. They will run at 2666cl19, 2400cl17 og 2133cl15. XMP is a Intel "thing" so it won`t work plug and play on ryzen. Another option: Can you change ramspeed\timings with ryzen master? I guess it works since it`s a desktop CPU. Apparently setting new timings\speed on ram in ryzen master will also overwrite bios-settings. Before you do you should locate cmos-battery\reset switch in case you go to far. Hopefully Acer has this acessible for the user. On my last Clevo I had to press ctrl+F I think when it did not boot due to pushing my ram oc to far. Tried swapping out the 2 factory sticks and put them in to see what happends?

 

It's not so simple.
I can't try out the hyper x ram alone because the stock ram that was pre installed requires a full laptop disassembly as it's on the opposite side of the motherboard underneath the kb.

I'm not willing to expend the time to do this because it's a too time consuming and something could go wrong.

Simply speaking, there is also no guarantee this ram would work on it's own as it should if it's giving me 600mhz reduced speed compared to the baseline of 2400mhz in the current configuration.

I can try removing one of the hyper x 16gb sticks and see how the system behaves.

Apart from that I don't think acer has put a bios reset button on this motherboard, or if they have, I haven't the first clue where it is.
They also never published the disassembly manual for this unit.


So how would I find jedec certified ram at 2666mhz or 2400mhz?
None of the retailers have this information and when I tried looking for such ram online for laptops, I get useless information.

I know xmp is an intel thing, but b450 motherboards can support it. Acer was just too lazy (or stupid) to integrate it.

 

Okay, I understand. Unless you find a reset switch, don't use ryzen master to change ramspeed/timings. In general, kits that run 2666cl19 or 2400cl17 or 3200cl22 are jedec spec. https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/ct8g4sfs824a I'm pretty sure this kit does. There might be problems running 4 dimms at 2400 anyways, but won't know until you test. It's unfortunate that Acer don't update bios as this notebook could have been ryzen 3k compatible and also supported faster ram if they did.

 

Here's what the information on this ram says:
DESCRIPTION
HyperX HX426S15IB2K2/32 is a kit of two 2G x 64-bit (16GB)
DDR4-2666 CL15 SDRAM (Synchronous DRAM) 2Rx8, memory
modules, based on sixteen 1G x 8-bit DDR4 FBGA components.
Total kit capacity is 16GB. Each module supports Intel®
Extreme Memory Profiles (Intel® XMP) 2.0. This module has
been tested to run at DDR4-2666 at a low latency timing of
15-17-17 at 1.2V. Additional timing parameters are shown in the
PnP Timing Parameters section below. The JEDEC standard
electrical and mechanical specifications are as follows:
SPECIFICATIONS
CL(IDD) 15 cycles
Row Cycle Time (tRCmin) 45ns (min.)
Refresh to Active/Refresh 350ns (min.)
Command Time (tRFCmin)
Row Active Time (tRASmin) 26.25ns (min.)
Maximum Operating Power TBD W*
UL Rating 94 V - 0
Operating Temperature 0°C to 85°C
Storage Temperature -55°C to +100°C
*Power will vary depending on the SDRAM used.
HX426S15IB2K2/32
32GB (16GB 2G x 64-Bit x 2 pcs.)
DDR4-2666 CL15 260-Pin SODIMM Kit
PnP JEDEC TIMING PARAMETERS:
Note: The PnP feature offers a range of speed and timing options to support
the widest variety of processors and chipsets. Your maximum speed will
be determined by your BIOS.
FEATURES
• Power Supply: VDD = 1.2V Typical
• VDDQ = 1.2V Typical
• VPP - 2.5V Typical
• VDDSPD = 2.25V to 3.6V
• On-Die termination (ODT)
• 16 internal banks; 4 groups of 4 banks each
• Bi-Directional Differential Data Strobe
• 8 bit pre-fetch
• Burst Length (BL) switch on-the-fly BL8 or BC4(Burst Chop)
• Height 1.18” (30.00mm)

• JEDEC/PnP: DDR4-2666 CL15-17-17 @1.2V
DDR4-2400 CL14-16-16 @1.2V
DDR4-2133 CL12-14-14 @1.2V

So it looks like that for this ram I have, it should already be working at 2666mhz by default because of its jedec profile and timings.

Here's the full information on it:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1YKwyYHwOPsZ2Sx9NLeUb8

I don't understand this.
If the RAM is already set to jedec pnp of 2666mhz, why is it working at 1866mhz instead?

Could it be the stock RAM is messing it up?

 

Yes they run at lower speed and lower timmings. You need to set up manually in ryzen master. Even if you pull out the original ram, they will still run at lower speed (mine was at 2144mhz). I have 4x16gb of ram now in my pc, i bought 2400mhz version and now runs at full advetised speed 2400mhz and i tighten to cl13 and i am more than happy. Yeah, but thats me, i pimp till perfection, i have the fastest helios 500 now

 

I'm afraid I don't know enough about memory manipulation via ryzen master to set it up properly. Also, if I end up pushing the ram too much, it could end up freezing up the system with no way to reset the bios.

Since the stock ram is running at 2400mhz and cl17 (I think)... Why doesn't the hyperx ram default to those values?
Why did the memory frequency drop below 2133MhZ even?
Its basically at a level suitable for DDR3 RAM (not DDR4).

 

Ok... so, looking at Ryzen Master, I have no idea which values need to be set to what.
As you can also see, the Memory Clock speed is at paltry 933Mhz (why oh WHY?)... but since its running in dual channel, that's technically 1866Mhz.

If you could help me set the values to something that's 'safe' and would run at 2400 MhZ with relatively good latencies (doesn't need to be 14... could be 15 for safety margin I suppose), I'd appreciate it.

Short of doing that and potentially messing up the BIOS without having the ability to modify it, I'd need to return this RAM and try getting myself 2x8GB 2400MhZ from Corsair with cas latencies of 17 I think or something and test that instead.

 

Oh and I ordered CH341a USB programmer with SOIC 8 clip just in case I decide to upgrade the BIOS again to latest version (and it ends up borked again).
At the very least with the programmer and clip I don't have to de-solder the chip and I can just re-program the chip to my heart's content (more or less).

So, does anyone have any idea WHY did the RAM speed drop to below 2000MhZ?
I still don't get it.
Even with the stock ram at 2400MhZ... why didn't the HyperX RAM simply downclock itself to 2400MhZ and increase the latencies to match the slower RAM?

Is it possible I got faulty RAM?

 

From review pics there is a switch hidden above the M.2 slots in both Intel and AMD versions of the Helios 500, it's likely to be a BIOS reset switch (haven't seen any laptop with a hidden switch that isn't one).

Tried to upload a picture from the Intel version schematics but failed. Anyway there should be a firmware reset switch, the schematic lists 3 switches one for some type of manufacturing test (wouldn't normally be populated in release machines), one likely for a normal reset and one "crisis disk enable" which is of course for emergency bios flash from some media...

 

I will check when i come back from work. I think i have pics for safe timmings. 933mhz is beacuse of half speed on ryzen program, ryzen master in my case show 1200mhz, but is 2400mhz (you can check on control panel or predator sense). False speeds are bacuse of bios, if bios cant read from ram then set to lowest possible. In short, bios is s***.

 

Which brings up another question:
How in the world does one enable 'crisis disk' to restore a bios to a functional state?
Acer should have detailed these things clearly.

 

Wow.
But see, other people had no issues running HyperX RAM.
Granted, mine is working with stock RAM in a different setting (Stock ram is running as 2x8GB and HyperX as 2x16GB), but I would have thought the HyperX would have adjusted itself to the stock RAM clocks and latencies in that case.
I never thought the BIOS would set the RAM speed to 1866MhZ.
That's just rubbish (and no one on Acer forums seems to have encountered this issue).
I could also have bad RAM sticks (though how likely is this?).

I'll try taking the sticks out, starting the system without them and see what I get with stock RAM (grab also some stock footage to ascertain its real latencies, etc.), and then I will try inserting one RAM stick at a time to see if the system behaves differently.

I know that 933MhZ is half speed, its running in dual channel, so its still actually at 1866MhZ (but that's still lower than 2100MhZ and the 2400MhZ baseline).

 

Ok... as you can see, I have taken screenshots of the stock RAM running to make a note of its latencies/configuration.

An idea struck me.
What if I re-install both HyperX RAM sticks into the unit and use Ryzen Master to simply set the stock settings and speed as it appears on the pre-installed RAM?
Wouldn't that be the 'safest' possible option?
And how likely is it to work (aka not crash the whole unit to the point where it would be unusable without a BIOS reflash?).

Mind you I tried installing one stick at a time and seeing if that made an impact to the RAM frequencies, but alas, it didn't. The memory frequency dropped to 1866MhZ every time I installed any HyperX in any of the two available slots.
I'm thinking my only option (short of disassembling the unit and removing stock sticks and just use the HyperX ones) would be to return and get a refund for HyperX and just try to get Crucial RAM instead at 2400Mhz.

This is rather discouraging, and I don't know whether I'd be 'brave' enough to test the waters using Ryzen Master.
One mistake and I won't have any options to clear it as I have 0 idea where the CMOS reset switch is on this motherboard (short of trying to reflash the BIOS with the programmer when it arrives, but I have to say, that thing won't be here for another month at least, and I still have 0 idea how to use it - I'm not eager to be without the unit [again] for an extended period of time due to stupid RAM speeds messing things up).

 

Is your HyperX RAM Samsung B-die? If it is, the chips will say "SEC 840 K4A8G08 5WB BCRC". Those can do CL12 @ 2400mhz, but only if you remove the original sticks. I attached a photo of mine if it helps.

 

I cannot find "SEC 840 K4A8G08 5WB BCRC" written anywhere on it... but the stickers on mine seem identical to the ones you posted in the pic.
Although, 3950X?
That doesn't look like a desktop as those are clearly so-dimm sticks (which only work in a laptop).
Shenker, or something else?

Btw, I got a reply on Acer forums about this issue and the person said that its because I'm using mismatching sticks (sizes and cas latencies) compared to the pre-installed stock RAM.
I was also told NOT to use stock ram as it would be impossible to 'match' it (seeing how its proprietary), but I said that I can 'probably' match it with a 'guaranteed compatible' Crucial RAM 2400MhZ CL17 (2x8GB) (or at least, Crucial's website lists PLENTY of RAM sticks in various configurations which are compatible with PH517-61).

At any rate, he suggested that since I already spent the money on the best possible RAM I can get for my laptop (probably not if we ever get a BIOS update for Zen 2 and Zen 3 and higher RAM support and/or XMP profiles), I could try disassembling the unit to remove the stock RAM.

He's probably right, but I HATE the idea of full blown disassembly especially on a brand new computer like this one where technically everything WORKS.
Plus, I ALWAYS end up missing a screw or two when doing a full disassembly from SOMEWHERE inside the system (even if the systems I disassembled in the past ended up booting and running just fine).

I could potentially consider taking it to a computer shop and ask them to do it (since the retailer I got the unit from doesn't have any shops here), but THEY could easily fry it in turn.

I don't know. At this point I'm considering getting a refund for HyperX and getting 2x8GB 2400 MhZ sticks instead with CL17 as it seems much less hassle and consider upgrading to 64GB down the line? At the very least I'd have 32GB.

 

Btw guys... I just wanted to mention that on my previous PH517-61 (the one which I had to return due to failed BIOS flash to v1.09)... I remember installing a 16GB Crucial 2400MhZ as a single stick (don't remember the cas latencies, but I remember they were higher than the stock RAM - which seemed to have been identical to the one used here).

Anyway, back then when I installed that single stick into one of the free slots that are easily accessible, I had 32GB RAM which ran in dual-channel (apparently) and at 2400MhZ.

When I tried installing a single Hyper X RAM 2666MhZ 16GB into THIS PH517-61, the RAM speed dropped automatically to 1866MhZ.

So, the total system size of the RAM was the same (32GB)... CAS latencies were different in both circumstances (on Hyper X they are higher than factory installed RAM, but lower than what Crucial RAM was set to when I bought it), however, the Hyper X results in diminished RAM frequency (in any of the two available slots).
The Crucial stick did not... it operated at 2400MhZ and increased latencies.

This actually leads me to think this laptop cannot cope with Hyper X RAM (aka, cannot read it properly), or I may have gotten a DUD RAM, or... something else.

 

Can you take a screenshot of your existing RAM in HWInfo64, like this? If you can find out the part number of your existing sticks you may be able to find a couple more from eBay, used. Just be sure the part number is EXACTLY the same and the manufacturing date is close. That way the JEDEC timings should match up and it should run at 2133mhz at least, maybe 2400mhz if you are lucky.

It is odd that HyperX does not have any chip markings. It should be either Samsung, SK Hynix, or Micron.

 

Yes you have 2 type of rams, the safest way is to set timmings and clock to highest possible from 16gb kit which picture you already post.

 

I think its SK Hynix (as it starts with SK Hynix), but the rest of it is behind the 'Warranty void if removed' sticker (and this sticker is covering most critical details) so I can't tell what is it exactly.

As for the stock RAM in hwifno... sadly, Hwifo doesn't show that information on Helios 500. Acer really gave us a garbage bios which cannot even give information on its own factory installed RAM (what's worse is that in CPU-Z under SPD tab, none of the 4 slots show ANY info on the RAM - everything is greyed out).

I'll also insert the picture of my HyperX RAM so you can have a better look at it.

 

Ok, the HyperX is definitely SK Hynix.

Regarding the pre-installed ram is there any additional information in the SMBIOS Memory Devices section, selecting each individual Memory Device?

 

Yes, there is.
For the other two (easily accessible) slots, one is P0 Channel A, and the other P0 Channel B

It appears the stock ram is Hynix HMA81GS6AFR8N-UH

However, I have called a local computer repair shop and asked them if they could potentially do a RAM upgrade on my Predator Helios. Would cost a bit, but I'd prefer this was done by someone who can keep track of things better.

Although, based on the pics I provided of the HyperX, what chance is there that it will actually function at 2666MhZ once the stock RAM is removed?
If the system is downclocking the RAM speed severely with HyperX and stock Hynix RAM to 1866MhZ, what chance is there that this is because the BIOS cannot ready HyperX RAM properly, and might I be better off trying to return the HyperX, get a refund and then arrange for a different RAM to be installed so I can get to 64GB properly?

I don't want to pay some pretty money only to realize this HyperX won't function at 2400 or 2666MhZ (as 2x16GB).

 

If you found two more of those stock Hynix sticks as a used pull from eBay or such you could run it at 2133mhz or maybe 2400mhz with all four without any disassembly needed. I was never able to run the HyperX at 2666mhz in any configuration. The best it could do is CL12 2400mhz. I am not sure if its a bios problem or what, but the exact same ram runs at CL18 3200mhz in the Clevo NH58AF1.

 

What about in the PH517-61?
If the stock RAM is removed, and only HyperX is installed, what are the chances it function at 2400-2666MhZ, and not 1866MhZ like it is now when paired with stock RAM?

I think some people tried other RAM and 2666MhZ worked when only 2 slots were populated (such as 2x8 or 2x16GB)... with all 4 DIMM's populated, the speeds 'defaulted' to 2400MhZ (which is likely a BIOS limit - although I don't know if this was because the JEDEC of the other two RAM's were not 2666MhZ or I don't know).

I can deal with 2400MhZ and possibly 2133MhZ... but definitely not 1866MhZ.

 

I used to have a Predator Helios 500 AMD, but the best it could do was 2400mhz CL12 even with the stock ram removed. I tried flashing a modded bios but ended up bricking the motherboard and had to have Acer repair it. Maybe there is some kind of bios limitation because the 2666mhz JEDEC timings are ignored and the system was not stable when using Ryzen Master to override the bios defaults. If you happen to have those links to other people who got 2666mhz working it would be interesting to read about how they did it! I do not know for sure but I think 1866mhz is some kind of "fail-safe" speed that the bios defaults to when JEDEC timings do not match on both sticks installed in a channel. Hence why getting the exact same ram part when adding more ram to the stock config is important.

Do you have a place where you can purchase a 64GB matched set (4 sticks) with JEDEC timings for DDR4-2666 and DDR4-2400 (as a failsafe)? That would be the best case scenario if you can pay someone to install the upgrade. Oh, and if they do pull the motherboard, they should plan on doing a CPU / GPU repaste as well. It is possible to remove the motherboard without removing the heatsink, but you have to use precision tweezers and a spudger to re-connect a couple of the flexible flat cables up under one of the heatpipes. Ideally they could somehow get access to the Acer service manual for the AMD model (ZGX).

 

So the 1866MhZ is basically a glitch due to using a radically different memory, but otherwise the Hyper X would technically work on its own at least at 2400MhZ?

Btw, I think 2666MhZ works only if TWO DIMM's are filled up... if 4 are filled, then the mobo defaults to 2400MhZ apparently despite JEDEC profiles (Acer basically did this for whatever reason - but the motherboard itself should be capable of supporting 2666MhZ when all 4 DIMM's are filled with a proper AGESA support - which AMD released of course, but Acer never bothered to integrate - much like Acer never implemented XMP profiles).

I can get another HyperX 2x16GB 2666MhZ C15... but I'd only get that if the existing Hyper X sticks I have end up working at higher than 1866MhZ frequency once they replace the stock RAM.

Having 64GB would be ideal as it would max out the RAM support and be great for my productivity (3d animation courses) for years to come.

 

Sure. I think you had a 16gb Crucial 2400mhz memory in your old machine and you probably just lucked out that the timings on that stick perfectly matched the timings on the stock ram, so no downclocking was needed as far as the bios was concerned.

You can try the HyperX ram if you really need over 32gb, although the safe and easy way would be to just get a couple more 8GB sticks to add to the stock ram. Also I am not sure about Acer UK warranty policies, but sometimes doing a replacement like this can void warranty. May want to check on that first if its a concern. I think only the things behind the first plastic door are considered the customer accessible parts.

 

In my old machine, I had the stock RAM 2x8GB 2400MhZ CL17 like in this one.
In the old machine I installed 1 stick of 16GB 2400MhZ CL19 I think (or higher timings), but for some reason, the memory frequency was still at 2400Mhz.

I can understand that it would certainly be easier to just install 2x8GB of crucial or other reliable memory into the unit and just live with 32GB, but in all seriousness, I think 64GB would be more useful over the next 4 years or so - mind you, 32GB would probably be adequate, but I can already cap out 16GB easily and 32GB is not far behind... so having 'breathing room' seems better.

I'll wait to see what the technician says (if they could do it or not).
If not, I will debate with me whether to do it myself following the procedure I found on REDDIT, or just return HyperX and get a refund and get 2x8GB 2400MhZ instead.

 

Ok... I decided to return the Hyper X (and get a refund) and just get myself a Corsair RAM (2x16GB) 2400MhZ with CL17 (same as my stock RAM).
I found out what my stock RAM is and I can find it online for purchase if I wanted to, but from previous experience I know that a single 16GB stick Cosair RAM works just fine and operate at 2400MhZ with stock RAM easily because the Corsair has looser/close enough timings.
So, technically 2 x 16GB 2400MhZ at CL17 should work fine.

48GB should also be able to run in Dual-Channel so long as RAM frequency and timings are the same between sticks (which they seem to be on Corsair).

The reason for this is simple: I'd lose my warranty if I tried to disassemble the unit to reach the aft RAM, so I decided to just go with the path of less resistance for the moment.

If I find that 48GB is not enough, then I'll eventually upgrade to 64GB.
And if I find that 48GB is not functioning at 2400MhZ at least, then I'll return that and get 2x8GB instead and upgrade to 64GB at a later time (once the warranty runs out).

I'd still like to prompt all PH517-61 users to continue asking Acer for Zen 2/Zen 3 and high frequency/low latency (XMP profiles too) RAM support.

 

I asked Acer almost a year ago and they said we can repaste and replace rams, hdds, ssds without voiding a warranty.

.Hdd you can upgrade up to 2Tb
.SSD NVME it can take up to 512GB
.Ram you can upgrade up to 64GB using all four ram slots
.You will not loose warranty by applying thermal paste
.Even if you bought extended warranty you can still do upgrades in your device

 

Good to know.
But regardless, I already returned hyper x ram and ordered 2x16gb 2400mhx cl17 crucial.
Oh well. Doesn't matter. If I can get 48GB running properly at 2400mhz it should be fine for now.

I think nvme can be upgraded to far higher capacity... Same with m.2 and hdd.
Don't think there's a hard limit on the capacity so long as you got nvme, m.2 and sata drives and put them in appropriate slots.

 

Agree, this was only what they tested. I have 1tb nvme ssd inside and i dont have any problems. I will buy 4tb nvme, but right now because of corona, they costs more in my country.

 

Yeah. Just get upgrades as you can afford them progressively.
I installed my spare 500gb m.2 into the empty m.2 slot. Just to expand on existing storage for software such as productivity and games.

The hdd I'll probably upgrade at some point to 2tb or more (preferably ssd) once it becomes more affordable. But we basically have a lot of options for fast storage upgrades.

 

Well, the laptop refused to POST with Corsair RAM in it.
I don't understand.
The Hyper X worked easily, but the total RAM speed was reduced to 1866MhZ while working together with stock RAM.
Corsair RAM (2x16GB 2400MhZ CL17) alongside stock RAM refused to post on the other hand.

I think Amazon sent me faulty sticks... I installed them without troubles and of course with the system powered down and disconnected from the mains, but the unit refused to POST... once I removed Corsair sticks, the system booted fine with just stock RAM in the system.

I also tried just 1x16GB Corsair RAM in the unit, and that refused to post too.

I already returned the sticks (on the grounds they sent me faulty RAM sticks) and got my refund.

Sigh... so, should I just aim for 2x8GB 2400MhZ CL17 sticks now or what?

 

Is there some place you can buy two more sticks of your stock ram, SK-Hynix HMA81GS6AFR8N-UH? That should ensure that JEDEC timings line up and it will be the mostly likely for the bios to successfully train at 2400mhz with 4 sticks installed.

 

Yes.
I can get 2x8GB of that exact RAM off Ebay.
But I'm really puzzled.
Mixing RAM should be possible. Unless Acer really limited the BIOS to such a severity where it cannot tolerate other RAM sticks (which seems evident with how radically it downclocked Hyper X RAM).

When I used 1x16GB 2400MhZ Corsair stick in my previous PH517-61, it worked at 2400MhZ with stock RAM (granted though I think that one had a CL19 or something... not sure).

I don't know.
I'll wait until my refund clears and then decide on what to do.
I did order anti-static gloves at least (just in case).

 

Most manufacturers only test what they sell. They should maintain a qualified vendor list and that SK Hynix ram would be on it, likely along with some OEM sticks from Samsung and Micron.

 

I'm thinking I could still use Hyper X ram if I decide to remove the stock RAM and replace it with 2x16GB Hyper X I ordered before... and then later just slap in another 2x16GB for a total of 64GB.
In all honesty, I think 32GB would be 'adequate', but for productivity etc. I'd feel better to have 32GB in 2 DIMMS from the start and then upgrade with same RAM config in a month or two.
The computer shop did mention they can disassemble the unit and replace the stock RAM with HyperX for £90... which seems good (I'd still need to test the RAM in the easily accessible slots first to make sure the unit is booting like it did before and downclocked - though wouldn't it be nice if the HyperX decided to work at 2400MhZ in 48GB configuration with stock RAM?).

Sigh... Acer made all of this much more difficult than needed.

 

I actually recently (a few mins ago) stumbled upon the thread on upgrading RAM on PH517-61 in Acer forums.
Another guy mixed HyperX RAM (2x16GB 2666MhZ CL15) with stock sticks in exactly the same manner I did and encountered same RAM downclocking as I have... what worked for him though was simply increasing the frequency to 1200MhZ and setting timings to what the stock sticks were running at (C17).
Honestly, I was a bit thick in that regard and hadn't tried that with the HyperX ram (I think the CMOS reset button is above the NVMe and m.2 slots - but I cannot readily find it myself).
Although, there have been cases where resetting the CMOS didn't really help (and would require a BIOS re-flash - hence I was worried about messing with RAM frequencies and tmings using Ryzen Master).

Oh well. I decided to order myself 2x 8GB of stock Hynix memory (exact same one I have pre-installed) and have 32GB for now.
Should I end up needing more memory later on, I can always upgrade in about a year's time to 64GB.

It looks like there's minimal danger from setting RAM frequencies manually to 2400MhZ in Ryzen Master to what the RAM sticks should be running at to begin with at those speeds (aka, there should be no BSOD's and problems with the setup in the sense that it would require a bios re-flash) in case the system decides to push frequencies below 2400MhZ on all 4 DIMM's.

 

Oh...
I got a reply from Acer.


It seems when writing them a message, you need to select Acer ( @acer).
Write to them and ask them to give us needed BIOS updates for ZEn2/Zen3, high frequency RAM support - preferably XMP profiles (along with a BIOS recovery option).

Anyway, this was my message:
Hi, I have an Acer Helios Predato 500 PH517-61 with Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56. This unit is one of the best Acer ever designed (along with being the coolest and quietest). Given that this is a desktop replacement with a removable CPU, I (along with other users of this unit) would like Acer to release a BIOS update which will provide both Zen 2, Zen 3 and high frequency RAM support with XMP profiles considering the motherboard is B450 and would be compatible with a proper AGESA update (nevermind the fact AMD released numerous AGESA updates which fix performance and improve security). AMD recently stated that they will be including B450 motherboards in supporting Zen 3, so, seeing how this unit is rated for 65W TDP CPU support (but can easily handle a 105W CPU such as 2700X as well), Acer could simply write in Zen 2 and upcoming Zen 3 65W-105W TDP CPU's into a new BIOS (along with support for 3200MhZ RAM at least with XMP profiles - seeing that finding memory with proper JEDEC timings is almost impossible in the laptop market). Also, we would like to request from Acer to provide us with the procedure on how we can restore a badly flashed BIOS on this unit (this unit seems to be the only one not having a BIOS recovery option). Please, consider giving your loyal users the support for this amazing unit.

And this was their reply:
Hi! Hope you're doing well! Just to let you know that we appreciate your time and effort in bringing this up with us. We'll take note of all your suggestions, and we'll see what we can do. By the way, have a wonderful day and keep safe!

Its not much, but its certainly more than getting no reply at all, and if it gets through to Acer in general to provide relevant BIOS updates, it would essentially update this units status as a beast (say what you will about Vega 56, but its still a very powerful GPU, and a Zen2/Zen3 CPU and fast RAM would make gaming even BETTER).

Also, I noticed that whenever people reference previous AMD laptops, they virtually never mention the PH517-61.
This could potentially put it on the map and maybe prompt Acer to create new laptops using same/similar cooling/noise management with all AMD hw.


Is there something else I would need to mention to them just in case?

 

Someone with supreme diplomatic skills should try to push the PR aspect of updating the BIOS. They'd not lose money directly on other laptops as this is AFAIK their only one with a socketed processor but they'd stand out among the gaming laptop crowd with a late high performing upgrade. They'd even be able to compare it with 2020 releases with a 2 year old design! I believe that could attract people by showing themselves at the forefront of mobile performance. Ditto with the cooling if they could show a higher power processor still running comfortable, proving Acer as innovators (fan blade design) and going for cooling overkill in their gaming laptops.
If the update was limited to those paying for it they'd be able to earn some directly, I'd give up to $500 for a good stabile update (unlocked, Zen2/3 support, XMS?) however that may be too much for others.
I have no such skills sadly.

Planning to upgrade RAM and NVMe soon anyway, possibly replacing the HDD with an SDD. Even as is it's a damn nice machine. It could just be nicer.

 

$500 is way too much to pay for something that should be technically provided for free (after all, desktop mobo makers have been providing BIOS updates for over 2 years and have done it for no extra charge). Its a unique machine... Acer could technically use this to 'refresh' the unit with better specs too.

Like I said, Zen 2 and Zen 3 (especially Zen 3) 8c/16th and/or 12c/24th equivalents at 105W TDP would do WONDERS for both gaming and productivity... especially if paired with 3200MhZ RAM (and even moreso if we could be given the option to tighten the timings reliably - though fortunately, the timings have been less important since Zen 2, and Zen 3 will have a more unified design as well which should help remove any lingering reliance on RAM frequencies).

They could give existing PH517-61 users the said BIOS updates and then refresh the unit with Zen 3 and Navi (for example, 5700 or just wait for RDNA 2)... increase the display quality and brightness further, and the refreshed model could have the display connected to both the socket and dGPU (so that in case people decide to use APU's in the unit, they can make use of the iGP for vastly improved battery life)... maybe Acer can also shuffle the inconveniently placed RAM slots to the easily accessible side, do away with 2 extra RAM slots, or just populate the easily accessible ones instead (to make it easier on consumers who wish to upgrade the RAM).

I'd be willing to pay maybe £25 to £50 tops for the BIOS (provided we get a reliable BIOS update for Zen 2/Zen 3 that won't result in a bad bios flash... including with XMP profiles and high frequency RAM support across all 4 DIMM slots - and of course a way to reflash the bios in case a bad bios flash occurs).

Programming the BIOS updates shouldn't be a problem for Acer nor a drain of any significant resources... but even a small payment of £25-£50 could potentially incentivize them (I'm sure it would be more than enough money to offset any potential expenses).

In regards for someone with supreme diplomatic skills pushing the PR aspect of updating the BIOS... why not simply use your reply and reword it a bit so it sounds as if its directly addressed to Acer?

 

Ok... I've sent 2 more messages to Acer:

1: Thank you for the reply Mond. On behalf of all users of Acer Predator Helios 500 PH517-61 (Ryzen/Vega), we'd really appreciate if Acer would provide much needed support for above mentioned BIOS updates and BIOS recovery procedure. Also, there are a few more things I forgot to mention. All users of this unit experienced issues when trying to populate all 4 RAM slots with 2666MhZ RAM (which has JEDEC running at that same 2666MhZ frequency). Namely, if all 4 RAM slots are populated, the RAM frequency would drop to 2133MhZ (we think this could be a problem with lack of needed BIOS updates with needed AGESA from AMD, but we would appreciate if Acer could look into this problem as well).

2: Also, there is a certain PR aspect of updating the BIOS. Acer would not lose money directly on other laptops as this (PH517-61) is practically the only one with a socketed processor, and, Acer might stand out among the gaming laptop crowd with a late high performing upgrade. You'd even be able to compare the BIOS updated unit with modern 2020 releases. I think this could attract people by showing Acer at the forefront of mobile performance (and customer support). This also applies to the cooling - if Acer could show a higher power processor running inside PH517-61 (such as say Ryzen 3900x and Ryzen 3950x - and of course upcoming Zen 3 equivalents) comfortably, it would prove Acer as innovators (because of your fan blade design) and integrating proper cooling in their gaming laptops.

Kind regards

Acer's reply:
Got it. We'll take note of your feedback. -Jasper

At the very least, I've gotten much faster feedback from Acer compared to bothering with raising tickets and such.

If other users of PH517-61 could step in and request the same things, it would probably give Acer more incentive.

Write to them.

Let's at least hope this gets their attention and they decide to accommodate our (very reasonable) requests.

 

They are just generic answers, i doubt Acer will ever look at bios again. They firmware/software support is really bad.