Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

New reviews of this laptop are coming out and apparently it's a big issue to have slow memory sticks (2400 MHz CL17) paired with AMD Ryzen 7. Unfortunately, that's actually the case on the market in my country - they've released it with 2 x 8 GB 2400Mhz. If i decide to buy this one, i'll definitely replace the memory sticks. However, the stock sticks are not so easily accessible. At this point, i don't know how to get to them, i haven't found any manuals online so far.

 

Yeah this system is best bought through a reseller

 

Can you link a review which explains this issue?

 

Unfortunately, the review is in Polish so it won't tell you much. Reviewer explains that the problem appears in games like Watch Dogs 2 or Assissin's Creed Origins. In parts of those games when the CPU is heavily used Acer drops in performance. He explains it's not just because of the computation burden that was thrown at the CPU, but also because of the RAM onboard with such poor parameters. He explains that AMD's CPUs are really sensitive to poor latency and frequency of RAM.

There are plenty videos on YouTube about it. I just found the video below - it's around 3-10 FPS difference between RAM 2400 and 2666.

 

That difference can also be seen with Intel cpus. But yeah, still a bummer that Acer used 2400 instead of at least 2666 ... even on their webpage AMD states that 2933 MHz modules are officially supported.

 

Although I agree that the few AMD laptops / desktops really need to put their best foot forward by including high speed memory in the base configuration, the reality is that base config Intel laptops / desktops have similarly poor memory parts.

The problem is that the Intel users won't know or notice, but the AMD enthusiasts are very sensitive to the short sighted builds that have low speed memory made even worse with a single channel build.

With that Intel crappy memory mindset, it's hard to convince makers to treat AMD differently.

I assume AMD makes recommendations to such makers, but even so they ignore it.

Somehow I hope that changes.

 

Price drop to 1800 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-PH517-61-R0GX-Processor-Graphics/dp/B07GWX5X26

 

Linus review ( ) - at 5:19 you can see that the cpu is socketed, so can be replaced.
How is your gaming experiences on the Helios 500? How well does it perform?

 

Thanks for the link! Linus twitter teaser was the first time anybody publicly confirmed that the processor was socketed, not that it was any real doubt about that.

Edit: Comparing a 17.3" machine in weight and price with lightweight 15.6" machines... Why not do a comparison with Clevo which is the real alternative?

Well there have been just one person in this thread actually owning this machine, the rest of us have been wanting more information before buying or perhaps waiting until there is something available to buy in the first place. Still no availability here for instance.

 

Written language is less of a barrier if you don't mind viewing it with Google Chrome, or using a translation add-on to another browser, or using translate.google.com or transator.bing.com. (Chrome machine-translates each paragraph as you scroll it into view. Sometimes it requires a translation retry if the page takes too long to load the first time.)

(For anyone who might have missed them, links to the 181106 pcworld, 181024 purepc, 101012 pcdiy, and other PH517-61 previews are archived in this " Portable AMD Ryzen" table. Thanks for the pointers and hints.)

 

I'm right there with Linus:


Although once it nears $1500, then I will get it (God willing).

Hoping price drops after Holiday craze.

 

Linus is an idiot. I stopped listening to fancy telemarketers a long time ago.

An actual criticism would've been including low speed RAM in a Ryzen system but again goes for the hurr duurr DTR's are heavy so buy Razer instead but failing to mention you'd be doubling the price.

 

Hmmm the GPU performance seems to be inconsistent. In Linus' review, the Vega 56 is at times slower than the RB15's 1070 Max-Q (Deus Ex: Mankind Divided), but in this user's Fire Strike it beats the 1070 Max-P in Graphics Score? Does it underperform in actual games for some reason, maybe CPU/RAM limitation?

 

It's tuning. Watching the Linus review he tunes it up a tad, but stops before undervolting. I'd imagine some forget to change the power plan from Windows to the AMD plan, to get the best performance.

And, there is variation based on game set up, game version at the time, and Windows update.

Some games are better on AMD than Intel and the other way around.

Usually the difference isn't enough to be noticeable, but if it is in a particular game you can tune the game settings to get more FPS without reducing fidelity most of the time - this is true for any set up.

 

So I went ahead and returned mine, all they had to do was make all the ram slots accessible but I wasn't about to rip mine apart to do it. Yeah I didn't like Linus video either cause he left out the most important part about the ram. The weight and size aren't a big deal and anyone buying a 17 knows this already.

Bought a new AMD Thread-ripper system instead, 2950x 32gig 3200 Vega 64 and all the RBG fans money can buy lol and its amazing! I really just wanted to support AMD cause they deserve it, its a win win for us all if their competitive.

 

Seems Acer Hungary is trying to get rid of their Helios 500 Vega stock. At least the Ryzen 2600 model, because the Ryzen 2600 model with 256 gb ssd and 16 ram will get a $250 discount tomorrow (Acer Shop in Hungary is having their Black Friday sale tomorrow).

 

Pretty standard to discount pre-Black Friday, awefully nice of them to discount a system that hasn't been easy to find and that has been mostly sold out.

 

Yes. WIth this price even if you buy a Ryzen 2700 separately you will end up with a price as currently seen on Amazon.com (with $400 discount), however for the same price you end up with:
- a spare Ryzen 2600 cpu
- 3 year Acer warranty instead of 2 year Amazon warranty

 

Glad you got an AMD ThreadRipper 2950x, but sad you gave up on the Helios 500 AMD Ryzen 2700 / AMD Radeon RX 56 laptop...

Hard to reach memory is not unusual, sucks, but not unusual. If you could have stuck with it maybe it would have worked out over time, but I know the rush to returns without losing $ is important - and you likely were looking to put the funds into the desktop.

Hopefully AMD and makers will continue to push Ryzen / Radeon higher end parts into laptops in 2019, along with the AMD power saving long battery life carry models.

And, maybe you'll find a Helios 500 AMD Ryzen 2700 / AMD Radeon RX 56 used later down the road for a great price.

 

Wow, that's even better.

Will they do memory upgrades? Or swap the CPU for you too?

 

Not, but I would end up doing it myself anyway.

I currently have an Acer Aspire A717 with GTX 1060 and it is pimped to hell...the factory Insyde BIOS is unlocked and all setting are available (the cpu is undervolted from the BIOS and the 2666 Mhz memory is overclocked to 2800 Mhz), thermal paste changed to TG Kryonaut and I had a CMOS reset button installed because Acer removed the CMOS reset pins on this model (they were under the RAM slots with the Skylake model).
So if I decide to get it, this Helios 500 will be pimped to hell too

 

Excellent, I look forward to seeing your upgrades and tunings

 

I'm quite satisfied with Helios 500. Vega performs ok, but i do not game much. It's more as a mobile workstation. I'm running 2 virtual machines with oracle/sap on them...though the lack of RAM is quite painful. For the money they should have added at least 32Gb of Ram.
On the side note. Wattman does not work here, the Crimson does not install it and it's not even available in the Radeon settings, so no undervolting on the Vega part, the Bios is locked.

 

I'm lusting right now over this machine and waiting for any refurbished to pop up.
Can you please run Cinebench R15 with undervolt and max profile? I'm not a gamer myself. I'd need it more for coding and machine learning. I also happen to love the form factor and yes I move around a lot in a day.

 

The BIOS is not just locked, it is also write protected, so even if you mod the BIOS, you need to remove the bios chip and useu an SPI programmer to write it.

 

Yeah, maybe by another company...Not a big fan of Acer stuff, they're just the only ones doing it so its choice by availability, thank god I have Newegg premium and no-restocking/label fees so it was easy turn around. I hope the next laptop I get will be a ZEN 2 CPU with a Navi 7nm GPU by Asus or Aorus in one of their laptops.

That's just dumb, that makes me even happier I sent it back....locking it down for no reason is a dick move.

 

All laptop manufacturers are doing this now, not just Acer.
At least Asus and Lenovo are doing it but I assume others too.

 

At least with MSI you can access all bios options and they have unsupported bios unlocking in their own forums. That was a very important factor for me along side solid cooling.

 

Been toying around with an Helios 500 for a few days now with Vega56+Ryzen 5 2600. So fat I am not very impressed.
TDP limit is set to 120W for the GPU and the clocks have been butchered:



The VGA driver which Acer provides has a date of May 2018, so not the newest. There is a slightly newer in Windows Update with date July 2018 which also works.
Installing latest AMD Adrenalin Drivers is a no go because it disables FreeSync.

I did a fresh install and not counting drivers, the only extra software I have is PredatorSense (needed to set keyboard lighting) and AMD Ryzen Master.

Battlefield 1 runs with pretty good FPS (110+ FPS on the second level where we driver the tank for the first time), other games run the same or slightly worse than with GTX 1070.

You can OC the CPU with AMD Ryzen Master however it will not save the settings so you need to always manually enable OC after WIndows start. Only way to avoid this is to set the OC in the BIOS, however "Overclocking Performance Menu" has been hidden by Acer in the Insyde BIOS.
Modding the BIOS is not as easy as an AMI BIOS and you need an SPI programmer which can write a 17 mb BIOS file (many popular SPI programmers don't even support the BIOS chip used by Acer)

FreeSync works, but I think G-Sync is better. With G-Sync I start to see microstutter (due to the VRR window) at around 48 FPS, however with FreeSync I start to see microstutter at 50 FPS.
Vega 56 performs slightly worse in ROTTR than GTX 1070.
Meaning that you will get lower FPS (not much, just a few), and start seeing microstutter faster with FreeSync.

Fallout 4 in unplayable because AMD driver locks the framecap at 48 FPS and even if you disable V-Sync in the driver or the game's .ini file it will not matter, and the 48 fps will remain. Well you can play if you dont mind the microstuttering.

Metro 2033 Redux is also unplayable. There is a driver issue with this system which makes this game glitch. FPS is high (80-100), however the game is unplayable because randomly (sometimes every 3 second, sometimes every 20 second) the game will stop for 1 sec, meanwhile the sound will crack and I can also hear the sound settings change for a second and the quality of the speaker drop and they sound like if I was sitting on the toilet. After a second the sound will change back until the next stutter.

tl;dr:
Compared to the 8750H+GTX 1070
1) you get slightly lower FPS in many games (but more in a few)
2) both FreeSync and G-Sync introduces microstuttering when they reach low FPS but it seems to me if it would start to happen with FreeSync a bit sooner. Also transition between 65 FPS -> 55 FPS looks slightly smoother with G-Sync than with FreeSync.
3) Due to driver compatibility issues on this AMD system there are games which are unplayable

Well thats is for now.

ps: Just found the reason why G-Sync looks smoother between 50-60 FPS...the VRR window for FreeSync on this laptop is 60-144 Hz!
Do I remember correctly that for G-Sync it is 30-144 Hz?

I have no idea what is the point of it like this ...

 

@DRevan Thank You so much for this readout. From a cpu mainly standpoint. Do you think it's a good purchase. Mainly if I was to push the CPU what Cinebench r15 scores are we talking? If I further undervolt the GPU, can I push the cpu more?

 

With the Ryzen 5 CPU, no.
If you only use it for work, then the Ryzen 7 version could be a good choice .

However if you want to work the day and game in the night I think the 8750h+gtx 1070 combo is better.

People say G-Sync vrr window is between 30-75/30-120/30-144 but by my experience the lower limit is around 48-50. Below this microstutter start to appear in some games.
Now FreeSync is even worse, AMD set the vrr for this AUO panel at 60-144 hz. Loading up Rise of the Tomb Raider I immediately noticed the difference when transition from 60+ fps happened to mid 50 fps in GeoThermal Valley and Soviet Base.

In short : with Helios 500 G-Sync makes games with high fps smoother and helps make frames smoother if the run ok but in some areas drop under 60 fps but stay above 50 (there are a lot of games who behave like this).
Now FreeSync seems that has been set to makes 60+ fps smoother.
It helps between 50-60 fps too, but G-Sync does a better job in my opinion with this laptop.

Not to mention that more games prefer Nvidia cards than AMD cards and a perfect example is Metro 2033 Redux. I tried factory os and clean install and with redommended Acer drivers this game is unplayable (stuttering with Audio cracking). It is more plqyable with an gtx 1060 optimus laptop.
Oh and Freesync only works with Acer vga driver so the drivers you can use is very limited .

8750h is powerful too and good for work, so if you want both, go with i7 modell. If you only want to work, go Ryzen 7 model.

Oh and 1 more thing.

In games the AMD model performs slightly worse Than the i7 model, however it consumes more power.
I7 model uses a moderate 230W adapter, while the AMD model is using the standard huge 330W Delta power brick used for GTX 1080 laptops.

sorry for typo, I wrote this from a phone...

 

Thank you so much again for all this info. It quenches my unhealthy obsession with this ryzen laptop.

Right now my msi gp73 scores between 1250-1270 (cinebench r15 multicore). I was hoping the helios 500 or asus gl702zc would put me up in 1600-1700 score range to justify an upgrade. Looks maybe I should stay put for now. At least until prices go down...?

The other option is to hunker down and get a second hand 1700/2700 barebones desktop and have that be the processing power house....

Thoughts?

Again, thank you. Now I don't have to keep refreshing on amazon/newegg/ebay looking for refurbished or price drops on these modesl :^)

 

Wow, really?? Trying to "sell" Intel / Nvidia in an AMD thread?

I don't care how much marginally better or worse the Intel / Nvidia solution is, I am not interested.

The first real commitment by vendors to offer AMD solutions, and you want to kill it?

WTH are you thinking?

That kind of thinking will only continue Intel / Nvidia dominance at a time when both are ****ing up big time, and AMD is coming in strong.

Buy it because it does a good job at the tasks you need it to do, and buy it to support AMD offerings over Intel / Nvidia offerings, because you want to see more.

AMD shouldn't need to not make money, and be forced to sell "cheap" either.

It does work and games just fine, tune it up and get the best out of it, and revel in that rare event of a new AMD laptop.

 

Personally I dont mind that FreeSync isnt great, as I would be on Linux anyways so that would likely be out. I believe its called TearFree, but regardless I would likely just have that disabled altogether.

Just wish the Vega 56 didnt have write protection so that we could tweak it as needed, as obviously with no tuning the 56 isnt going to do that well.

The other issue plaguing the system is slower RAM speeds, needs to have 2933-3000Mhz to make up for it but that would increase the price and with a new entry like this its understandable to try and keep the price low as to not limit your potential market.

Its not a complete miss, but its not an easy recommendation either. Prices went up 50 USD as well on Amazon (1850 USD) so maybe 1800 USD would be the cheapest we see for a while? Not sure.

 

Just found this video! Cinebench r15 score of 1766!!!!! 0.0



Let's say I'll be refreshing many online shops' websites

That score makes my compilers salivate..!!! 0.0

 

Well, it is not a bad try but it feels like a ES sample meant for testers.
Its not bad, but it has some bugs, which need to be fixed and some tweaks with the driver would be nice too.
Also the vga runs really cool , Acer could increase the TDP to get more performance out of it. Like to 150W with 1401 default clock.
Vega 56 should have 1301 MHz core clock in this system but many times it did not reach 1300 MHz.
Oh and it wasnt funny that at the first startup the battery got stuck at 82%, it did not charge even when turned off. Had to do a BIOS reinstall and reset to fix it.

Also, there is a boot animation with Sound which is not just annoying but also delays the boot.
Luckely it can be turned off.

Tl;Dr: it Will be a good system after Acer works out the bugs, increases the vga TDP slightly for better performance (I would not mind if it run at 75C instead of 65C) and change the vrr window from 60-144 hz to 48-144 hz.

As for now, I stand by what I said, for productivity the Ryzen 7 model is one to chose but for Gaming the 8750h model is the obvious choice until Acer fixes the things I mentioned.

 

Slower ram speeds?

Did I mention that there are 4 dimm slots and Acer put the slow 2400 MHz Rams in the slots which are are only accesible if you remove the motherboard?
Its like if Acer was thinking:
" You want faster Rams, do you? You want to swap the slow ones out for faster ones huh? Well screw you, you cant do it without voiding the warranty!"

 

On: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=2WC-000K-00040&Description=helios 500 &cm_re=helios_500-_-2WC-000K-00040-_-Product


Maybe they have different ram speeds for different websites?

 

Intel models ship with 2666 MHz cl19 ram modules while AMD models ship with 2400 MHz cl17 ram.
I think that is a typo on Newegg's part.

Changing factory rams require complete disassembly.

 

Having 2x DIMM slots on both sides of the motherboard is rather common practice to my understanding unless that has changed?

 

Even Amazon :/



Seems like Acer may have some serious typo going on and misleading product description. I'm expecting a lot of returns and refurbished deals

 

Interesting I didnt notice that change. Originally it had 2400Mhz RAM.

 

Chatted with NewEgg and they confirmed it's 2400mhz ram and will update listing

 

MSI, Asus, and others have done the same - placed memory and other socketed parts in inaccessible locations.

Again please stop trying to trash the laptop, AMD, Acer, and everything else associated with it.

If you don't like it, return it.

 

Let me know when you return so i can grab it

 

It's not the first time published specs or marketing literature doesn't match the production build.

Same goes for vendors that resell them, copy pasting the marketing copy instead of looking at the box, or what is actually installed.

In the swift moving world of consumer electronics, things change from conception, to marketing, to delivery, and I think often there are disclaimers like this:

"Specifications may change at any time, please refer to your specific build parts list"

It's not a perfect world, and nitpickyness is the surest way to disappointment, why not enjoy what you have instead of *****ing about what you don't have.

If you feel slighted, you can't cope with it emotionally or intellectually, then return it for a full refund.

Otherwise, remember that you intended to replace the stock memory with something faster anyway.

So what's the big deal?

 

Well that didnt last long lol.

Either way, Ryzen does suffer more from slower RAM modules in comparison to Intel to the best of my knowledge. Its unfortunate that this system isnt offered through a reseller where they can tailor it appropriately before the consumer gets it, as it would be to give a better idea of what you can get when properly tuned.

This is more of a nitpick on Acer's part than anything though. They just inserted it into the same product line as the Intel counterpart and while its certainly not a complete dud, it doesnt allow for Ryzen 7 to shine appropriately. its not that I dont understand Acer's perspective though, minimize the risk by hitching that wagon unto a product line that is already looking to be successful for them.

Vega 56 really needs 150w to be more a counter product to a regular 1070, it also needs to not be reliant on Acer's driver supply for full feature options.

This is one of those laptops where I would love a giant heatsink lol and a small battery. Thats just me though.

 

It's disappointing that makers generally put in the "standard" spec memory, the one Intel / AMD list as recommended, as if those CPU makers would also have a "Best" speed recommendation, I think it would be a boost to makers including faster memory as stock.

Given that, even so, cost is the determiner for most buyers, and most technical buyers intend to replace whatever is installed with "faster" components, be that memory, storage, wifi, network, etc - if it can be upgraded someone will do just that.

To include pricier memory by default brings up the build price, brings up the commitment to production - which is often balanced against building more or less of a model - so for now with high memory prices being the norm I don't think we can expect the stock / default memory to be "optimal", rather it will be the lowest recommended functional part.

Another DYI component that boutique sellers can make a buck on as well, so no complaints there I am sure.

 

I agree on this. Entry point is key since upgrades can be delayed.

 

Whether or not they try to sell the Helios 500 remains to be seen.

Would be nice but I have no idea how they decide what to sell.