Is Acer the worst computer company in the world? ...and other techincal questions

A little background to my Acer experience recently. I had purchased an Aspire 5580 about 2.5 years ago. It was XP and the deal was they would send the Vista upgrade when it became available. The wireless card in it went within about 2 weeks. I didn't go through Acer for warranty because it would have been 1 month or more whereas I replaced the card myself within a couple days. Then the audio kept screwing up so I disabled the audio and can only use USB headset with it. Then I maxed out the memory because the performance was so sucky.

Recently its gotten worse so I wondered if installing the Vista upgrade would help to purge some of the glut and help the computer manage its memory better. So I found my upgrade disks and put them in. The Acer software prompted me to okay a BIOS upgrade which I did and that's when the sh$t hit the fan...

The computer didn't fully reboot. There was only a blank screen. I did a search and found out others had the same problem when they had installed more memory. So I took the new memory out and put the old memory in. Now the POS boots but doesn't load properly. There are a bunch of errors.

So I contacted Acer to see what support they would provide for their software. Their answer was: none. Nice. They screw up my computer with funked up BIOS flash and they take no responsibility. They will fix it for a nominal charge of whatever the hell they want or I can take it to a local tech and get someone else to fix it. How funked up is that? It's like a make work scam.

Anyways (rant mostly off), I now am trying to restore the POS back to working condition. I've tried get the back up BIOS to flash but I get an error with Phoenix WinPhlash that it "Failed to initialize the driver. Driver failed to provide access to the BIOS memory. Error code: -122"

Does any kind hearted soul out there know how to get this to work? Also, I have my original backup disks of the POS from when I first bought it and back it up but don't want to have to use them if possible to preserve data and software. Also, would a restore even rewrite the BIOS? Isn't that a separate operation all together to restore?

Thanks in advance to any and all responses.

 

Welcome to NBR.

So you're sayin' that the software for Vista upgrade(I assume you're talking about Acer Recovery CDs?) start updating the BIOS??? That make no sense for me whatsoever....



On a side note: due to the nature of this thread and knowing what might happen I must note that I'll be monitoring this thread closely. So no fanboyish stuff, please only post ON TOPIC.

 

ATG, thanks for responding and the welcome. There were two upgrade CD's provided by ACER. One was an Acer sort of prep CD and the other was supposed to be the Vista guts itself (but of course I never got that far). The prep CD guide me to the cliff and then pushed me off. The recovery CD's I had made myself shortly after getting the computer. I haven't tried those yet as I'm hoping to not have to overwrite the drive and also because I'm not sure that they will restore the BIOS to original.

 

Yeah, In my oppinion Acers supports sucks :/! I will never buy a computer from them again.

And sadly, I don't know the solution to your problem, so the only thing I can do is to wish you good luck

EDIT: If you use the recovery CD, it will format your C:/ drive.

 

Gkm, welcome to the forums. If only it were under happier circumstances.
Acer's support does leave much to be desired, but the fact that your system is well out of warranty gives them all the more reason to cold-shoulder you.

I'm surprised that the discs provided prompted you to upgrade your BIOS in order to upgrade to Vista. Is this common policy for OEMs? (I'm honestly stumped)
The problem with that, as you've discovered, is that BIOS updates are inherently tricky. You're dealing with the most low-level basic component of your computer, so unlike an operating system, if something goes wrong it goes wrong in a BIG way. Be glad you were at least able to get your system functional again, errors or not.

I do know that the recovery CDs will not restore your original BIOS, only the Windows XP installation that was on your system before.

However, I might've found the workaround to get your original BIOS back. I used a similar solution to flash the BIOS on my machine once or twice (the flash utility is 32-bit only, and doesn't work on Vista/7 64-bit).
Try the link here, and snag your original BIOS (or one that works) from here or here.

Now, as for your topic question: is Acer the worst computer company in the world? I'd like to think not. Their more recent hardware runs just as well as the rest (things turned around in quality when the Aspire Gemstone series came out). Remember, every computer manufacturer produces lemons every now and again - it's how they respond that gives them a good or bad perception.

 

TehSuigi, thank you for the response. Tried your suggestion but no luck. The Acer won't boot from the Vista upgrade CD. I'm not sure if it's because it's a Acer version or what. Is there another place to get one?

I don't disagree that the computer is out of warranty. The warranty might have been one year, but does that give them the right to provide what turned out to be malicious code that they label as an upgrade? Shouldn't they have some liability for that? Is any piece of equipment fair game for manufacturers to vandalize to create work for themselves after the warranty has run out?

I've done other firmware updates that have worked perfectly well (all non-Acer). I've even had to contact HP about some printer issues that were way longer out of warranty than this and they were very helpful.

That's why my last computer purchase was an HP and why I'll tell everyone I know about my Acer experience to save them some grief. A leopard might be able to crouch down in the grass for awhile but he can't change his spots.

 

You can always download a retail DVD off the Internet. It's semi-legal, because the key you're using will still be legitimate.

I don't agree that it's malicious code. BIOS upgrades are sensitive procedures, and as a result not recommended unless absolutely necessary. The Acer website even says not to run the BIOS upgrade unless specified to by an Acer customer service rep.
It's also entirely possible that your system wasn't recognized properly by the upgrade CD and thus the wrong BIOS was loaded. Unlikely, but possible.
Like I said, there are so many things that CAN go wrong.

If you do feel the need to make Acer responsible, don't be afraid to escalate. Tell the rep on the phone in a firm but calm manner that the response you've been given thus far has been unacceptable, and that you would like to speak with a supervisor immediately. If they waffle, let them know you're willing to go to the Better Business Bureau or the courts to settle this if need be (CSRs hate the words "legal" "lawsuit" and "lawyers").

 

I used the Acer upgrade kit on my Aspire9301 at the time and it all worked OK... no consolation to you I know. I can't remember whether there was a "choice" of BIOS to install for different models now, but yes the BIOS had to be updated from the Acer upgrade DVD first before the Vista disK was run. I increased my RAM from 1 to 2gb no problem with that too but only some time after the upgrade.
If you put the original memory back and press F2 to enter the BIOS at start up does it at least get that far and display the bios correctly and the version of it ?
If it does you should be able to reinstall either Vista as a clean install... which works brilliantly... from your upgrade DVD (can tell you how to do that) or at the least to recover from your own burned recovery disks.
If you can not get the BIOS screen to display properly then you have problems I'm afraid. Hope you sort it out.

Edit... Something that always puzzled me. The Vista upgrade DVD (mine anyway) specifically say's "Support for this product is provided by Acer"... wonder how that would stand up.

Would it be possible to view and copy the BIOS files from the DVD on another PC? Perhaps someone with more knowledge could comment on that.

Other thing, the upgrade was OK, I did it over clean factory XP image but looking back there were problems (small) that I couldn't understand. I now know it was bugs with the upgrade and the patches for all the bundled stuff. Things like restore points being saved to the C and D partition simutaneously even though only C drive selected.
If you can get the Vista disk to boot, do a clean install and do try Microsofts "Morro" free security (In beta still but near final release available from softpedia). It's impact on performance is as near zero as you could imagine... Vista, Aero and sidebar all boot in around 1 min10 seconds.... absolutely amazing.

 

I fully understand the Process of the upgrades.
1)Acer require you to do a BIOS flash is because the Vista Activation information is in the new BIOS not the old if you don't flash you will not be able to update to Vista
Another thing Acer should have told you to do is create a bootable flash drive and flash from DOS.

What I suspect is during the flash the default BIOS setting changed.
In Xp the harddisk is usually in IDE mode but the BIOS flash changed it to AHCI mode because Vista works better in AHCI Mode.

Course of Action I recommend
Go download and install a Copy of Windows Vista Retail ISO without CD-Key or Cracks (bittorrent but it is legal considering you rightfully own a copy of Vista.
Make sure it is genuine by checking the MD5 Checksum of the Image
Activate it using this guide
Download the Certificate from Acer and activate your Vista lastly install all your Vista Driver.
There is a fault with Acer in not simplifying the upgrade Process and not testing it before deploying.
Usual folks who do not understand the activation process and BIOS setting usually screw up during the upgrade process.

 

Is Acer the worst computer company in the world?

On Topic as requested. And to answer your question.... No.

Mine still works properly after almost 3 years. Thats pretty good

 

Weinter, I'm interested in you saying the activation info is in the BIOS. In what way ?
It's Vista that's prompts you to activate it, and the code on the Microsoft/Acer supplied Vista DVD identifies it as an OEM copy. What's the BIOS got to do with it ?
Just interested that's all

 

I think weinter is right about that, very nice explanation which deserve some points.

@Mooly The key you have on your COA will ONLY work on ACER machines(notebooks only?) because of the Acer BIOS "activation code" weinter is talking about. Every OEM key is dependent on the BIOS ever since Vista came out(AFAIK).

 

Thanks ATG. Going away from the original question now, I'd just never heard of this before.
So if I had tried to install Vista using that activation code on the Disk on another machine (without the code having been previously used of course) it wouldn't have worked ? That code needs a specific BIOS to identify that it's used really for just what it was originally intended for... an upgrade on hopefully the Acer that it relates too.
Thanks

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Locked_Preinstallation

For any further questions please PM me or create a new thread. Thank you.

 

the bios update is not malicious. If it did actually fail to update the bios, your computer would be a brick. Try running a memory diagnostic on your unit to see if the memory was defective the whole time. Then reload to factory default using your recovery media, then use the vista upgrade dvd.

i highly doubt that Acer is sending you malicious software. If the unit does require a bios update, use winphlash to update the bios while still in XP. Seems like a PEBKAC

 

This is what the code looked like if you are wondering.
It is vendor specific.
The code include RSA encryption if you are wondering.

The blur was intentional.
Back to the topic just follow what I say I promise the problems will be over.
Doing "upgrade" is always worse than a clean install.
OEM License always look like this in System Information
XXXXX-OEM-XXXXXXX-XXXXX
While Retail License is all numbers

You can fault Acer for the way they deliver the upgrade but you cannot fault system hardware because all the parts are standardised.
This is also why I hate people claiming certain brands are more reliable etc.
Because in actually fact most of them don't even understand how thing really work.
It is like concluding the Sun revolve around the earth just by casual observation without going into details.
If you know how system works you can modify and make it do anything you want without forking out the extra cash not to mention solve laptop issues.

Value for Money Systems FTW (some other brands are just made to sucker superficial idiots)

 

ACER is definitely the worst of companies. My daughter purchased a travelmate 2431 because the retailer offered a three year warranty. Within that three years, she sent it to ACER twice, repairs didn't last, their paperwork does not indicate what they did, and they refuse to furnish that information now that it once again doesn't boot. Won't give me a schematic either. Hope you have better luck than we did. Friends don't let friends buy ACER ever.

 

The Acer upgrade kit (mine at any rate) did come with very detailed step by step instructions to run the upgrade wizard. I still have it.
I have been pleased with my Acer. Worst company in the world ? I doubt it. Anyone who has a bad experience with any product will always "look down on" that make for ever more.

 

Yeah in all fairness, i've never owned one, but when in store tinkering around looking, the acer machines seemed very tempting, so i wouldn't say they were bad.

And there planning the 3d laptop (i think ).

 

TehSuigi, the upgrade software said a BIOS updated was needed to install the upgrade. I had to specify the model right at the start. I do feel they are responsible, but I'm not going to try and fight a legal department which has, what I'm sure, is a bunch of experience.

Mooly, the version isn't the right one. It says version 1.3223 and should be v1.3505. However, I can't even get it to flash again because I get the flash error.

I saw the same thing. I guess you can't believe everything you read.

weinter and others who recommended this, I'll give this approach some thought but I'd really prefer not to go that approach. It would just be my luck that I'd get nabbed for piracy software like one of those comedy episodes where the main character is trying to do something innocent to correct a wrong and get him/herself in bigger trouble.

I have an HP that has worked for 8 years quite well and I still use as a media server. Let's see if you get 8 years out of your Acer and then get back to me. Did I mention mine gets smoking hot as well? I can't run it without a cooler.

Techiediva, I can't flash right now which is part of the problem. If I could reflash, then I might be getting somewhere. I have the backup from the winphlash but it won't give access to flash.

 

Replace "owned" with "tried" and "acer machines" with "crack rocks" and you're getting there.

 

I think you got the wrong idea about piracy.
When Acer give you the factory image it is identical to when you download Vista and install and activate it manually.
Piracy only applies if you DO NOT have a valid license.
The activation method is the SAME except my method does it manually because you have an issue with a factory image or upgrade disc.
I think you don't understand how OEM deploy their systems.
Let me explain to you all over again.

Firstly OEM does the same thing.
All their BIOS have this special OEM code so they simply insert the Vendor cert into their default factory image after installing Vista and those crappy extra software they usually preinstall then using an imaging software they burn it into CDs or Recovery Partitions.
This will allow them to deploy systems on a large scale.
What I am telling you to do is do it manually because you are not able to do the upgrade.
You are not trying to understand the whole process by trying to associate downloading Vista = Piracy which is very naive.
It is like you have a headache and you go to see a doctor thinking it is not right for you to self medicate.
If that is the case there is nothing we can do to help you.

 

So you are saying the 25 (numeric only) digit code that came with Acer upgrade disk will work fine in your approach???

 

No read this first to understand the entire process.
This is how every Microsoft OEM partners activate Windows
You don't even need the upgrade disk because the OEM Keys Certificates and Vista is universal.
It is legal as long as you own the license for that particular Windows SKU ie Home Premium usually.

 

Weinter Very confusing. Your link says this is for pre installed Vista installations though, using your original Vista license. gkms's license is for XP.
The upgrade DVD is an OEM isn't it ? just like you could buy anywhere, and with it's own unique code (microsoft) on the DVD. That is the code that is used to activate the copy online via Windows update... I've done it.

 

It is not confusing at all.
The upgrade DVD contains a BIOS update which has the Vista Activation code which makes my guide applicable.
If OP did not update his BIOS as advised by Acer THEN my guide will not work.
The BIOS update turns the laptop into a Vista Licensed System (aka pre installed Vista installations) .
Meaning after OP does the BIOS upgrade he can do a clean Vista Install using my Guide.
There is more things Windows acquire from the BIOS than you actually know.
Which is why Macbook experience with Windows is so bad because they don't have a BIOS chip.
That is also why the new EFI BIOS laptops(Remember Insyde BIOS?) from PC vendor still maintains legacy BIOS compatibility.

 

Confusing I'm just interested that's all.
I understand part of it. Well actually no I don't. So why did I have to activate Windows online using the DVD code when I have the Acer bios installed from the Acer upgrade Disk that I ran 2 years ago. I did a clean install (Custom followed by upgrade to do it) using only upgrade DVD and that leaves Windows unactivated. All that's asked for is the DVD code which does have an OEM in the number via windows update.
I still don't get it Your saying that the BIOS plus upgrade DVD activates Windows without you using Windows update.

 

With apologies to the OP for sort of hijacking this a bit, but it is relevant really, am I correct in saying the code on the DVD (The 25 digit Microsoft one) is just a normal OEM license (Nothing to connect it to Acer) and that Vista DVD would have activated on any PC in the normal OEM upgrade way. That's what I don't understand.

 

Are you sure it requires online activation?
Send me your BIOS link I will take a look if the activation is inside.
If they gave you a unique CD-Key then probably it isn't OEM activation.
If you license has a XXXX-OEM-XXXXX-XXXX inside it has to be offline BIOS activation.
Somehow they trick you into thinking it requires internet.
When you do offline activation the same windows appear so you might think it requires internet.
Is the DVD Code a CD-Key ?
Can it be found on the linked I gave if yes you are actually performing the offline activation.

 

Hi, After doing the clean install (only last month) I checked in system and windows was not activated. I was unsure whether the "clean install from OEM upgrade DVD" method still worked or whether that "loophole" had been closed so deliberately didn't activate immediately, wanted to make sure all was working OK first... and sure enough after a couple of days the prompts "Activate windows now" began. It activated with no problem but asked me to change the product key as part of the procedure, which was just a mouse click anyway.
I think I understand what you are saying, as a manufacturer Acer can't activate each copy individually so the Vista installation that MS authorise Acer to use (at the factory as it were) "accepts and validates" a code within the BIOS.
When the "upgrade" is run by a customer from a DVD, Vista is looking for a valid XP installation first, and then perhaps validates itself from the info in the BIOS. I can't honestly remember whether I had to validate or not 2 years ago when I ran it as an upgrade.
Doing a clean install and formatting the HDD leaves no such pre existing OS to check against and in this case the code on the DVD is accepted.
When I look in "system" the code is in the form,
xxxxx-OEM-xxxxxxx-xxxxx
The code on the DVD has a genuine MS COA sticker with the code in the form,
xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx with NO oem in the code.

 

Then it is confirmed OEM activated.
You can try using the Acer cert "slmgr -ilc" the acer certificate
Then running "slmgr -ipk" the Acer Key for your SKU
Also you can download RW-Everything to check for the "code in the BIOS"

 

Hi, I did look what version it was, it's V1.06 which was installed from the Acer DVD.
Thanks for helping to explain it all... I won't poke around in the BIOS as it's perhaps asking for trouble. I agree the fact it says OEM in system must have come from somewhere (the BIOS) as this was a clean install.
A lot of ifs and buts somehow. Would a "retail" upgrade DVD used with that Acer BIOS still have registered as OEM, and would the Acer supplied Vista upgrade DVD have worked on any PC using just the MS COA code supplied with the disk. I guess it doesn't matter, it all works
Thanks for taking the time to help explain it all and I hope gkm can get his working OK.

 

I think the comments are helpful guys but, being a non-tech person, I need to sit and study them to try and understand what you're saying. Thanks, gkm.

 

Let me translate for you.
Big Vendors uses OEM activation.
OEM activation is the use of a OEM Key which is known/leaked and a OEM Cert which is also known/leaked.
To use this activation you also need to have a OEM BIOS which is the BIOS the vendor released which you also have.
Using the above combination you can do the activation using a Vista retail disk installation which is not illegal because you own a valid license.
Why do you need it in the first place?
Because you are unable to do a Xp to Vista upgrade so this is the alternative.
A Clean install always solve all software issue lest hardware failure.

 

Weinter... thanks for your patience
To put gkm's mind at rest, if you can get the BIOS flashed OK so it's all up and running, you can install Vista cleanly from your upgrade DVD and as weinter say's, it's well worth doing, rather than an inplace upgrade.