It's official: Acer now sucks

I have a very basic yes-or-no question, but it is impossible to get an answer. Will my Acer Extensa 5620's latest BIOS (1.35) accept a T9500?

Tried contacting them through Online Technical Support. They will not address my question at all, but give a scripted answer saying that I'm out of warranty. They listed phone support pay options starting at $60. I replied back that I don't want support; just basic BIOS information they do not bother to post up on their site. No answer.

Tried calling them at Technical Support (1.800.816.2237). The initial voice menu is an absolute joke that runs you in circles. After a dozen tries, I finally get put on hold. When the rep finally did come on, he barely spoke English. It took five times to get him to understand my SN. Then when I explained what I wanted, the language barrier and his pathetic answer scripts became a brick wall. Once he realized he couldn't even grasp my question, he also started repeating that I was out of warranty, and my only option was to pay for support. For a yes or no answer.

My laptop comes stock with a T5250. I know for a fact that a T8300 works just fine. My only question is if the laptop will properly recognize the T9500. It should- it's basically a slightly faster T8300 with a larger cache. If I could glean this data from my own BIOS somehow, I would. Instead I'm being told to fork over money for some indian to (badly) say "yes," "no," or "I don't know." Most likely the latter.

I love my Extensa. I've been recommending Acer to family and friends. But I guess now I see why people hate them.... they are the very definition of nonexistent customer support. My next notebook will not be an Acer.

 

You're my friend!! LOL!
I do not suggest Acer to my friends.
I only suggest to my family due to I am familiar with Acer.
If something goes wrong, then I could fix it personally without Acer sucks support.

 

why the @#$#$@ has this forum turned into a gripe fest. The acer forum is for help not to gripe / b**** / complain.

If you need help with it then post here, other wise you can just add to the other 10 + acer sucks treads around here.

Getting fed up w/all this complaining.

The bios on laptops are hard coded (unless the extensia is a desktop?). And because of that the latest bios upgrade should add more hardware support for what you are wanting to do. The maximum allotted cpu is often determined by your motherboards chipset, not the bios.

There is no way you will be "removing" the bios from a laptop, and due to the unit being out of warranty then your answer is going to fall on deaf ears no matter what oem hardware manufacturer you go with. Got news for ya... Dell / HP / Sony / Toshiba are all just as bad when it comes to supporting a unit that is out of its manufacture warranty (and it sounds like what you are wanting to do falls outside the guidelines of a standard end user warranty as it is)

Not trying to shoot ya down, but please realize where they are coming from.

--ssx--

 

totally agree!

 

Relax. I think it's more venting our frustrations, and for a very good reason. My points are valid, and it's frustrating to buy a fairly name-brand product only to be met with a black hole of support. Other manufacturers do better, so it's obviously possible.

Not sure what you're talking about here. I'm very well aware of how the BIOS process works, in both desktops and laptops. The chipset does limit what cpu's are compatible, but the BIOS contains the instructions of how to recognize and handle different hardware. If your BIOS does not support a cpu, even if your chipset does, it will not function. I can't count the number of times I or or others I know have run into that limitation.

I don't think I said anything about "removing" the bios. I was thinking along the lines of opening the current Pheonix BIOS with an editor, and looking for the Penryn microcode. ...did I just lose you there? Sorry.

Once again I say, I wasn't looking for support. I don't want a repair, I know I'm out of warranty, I only wanted to know a technical specification that they didn't post on their website. Should I pay $60 to find out what RAM is compatible with my machine? Should I be charged to find out if my hard drive is IDE or SATA? I don't feel I should, and most manufacturers understand that distinction. My only goal was verification that the BIOS has complete Penryn instruction code. I don't think it's asking too much to know that information, and perhaps sharing my experience will flag Acer's incompetence in this matter. Small chance it will change things, but no chance if I said nothing.

 

Hi, so other manufacturers do better, then try Asus, or realtek, bt, orange, or any of the other manufacturers I deal on a regular basis with. Dell have been good, oh so have Acer, did I say acer? But don't expect them to be to technical savvy either, your expectations are far too high. They don't want you to upgrade because if you do they are losing a purchasing customer. Common sense really isn't it..
Chris

 

I want them to be technically savvy? Maybe. They are supposed to be tech support. But it would also help if they spoke English. And yes, there are still other manufacturers where you can get a hold of someone who you can at least communicate with, even if they can't help you. Of course the support centers are filled with minimum wage read-off-the-screen zombies, but at least the decent companies will forward things to someone with a clue when they realize they are out of their depth.

I have high expectations? You're right, I've gotten spoiled off the BIOS revision notes that are included with most updates... except Acer's. If they add anything in text format, it's every fourth BIOS, and it has all of twelve words in it. And none of them are even a generic "support for newer Intel processors."

No, it's not common sense. If I get a complete lack of support, continual demands for more money, and repetitious copy-and-pasted support replies.... yeah, they're losing a customer, but not because I'm upgrading my cpu. I've been sufficiently scared away. Imagine if this was a serious problem, not just a performance upgrade. To be taken seriously, you have to be seen to give a cr@p, even if you don't. These guys flaunt how unimportant their customers are.

 

Why should/would Acer help you?

Acer sells a working and reliable lappie out the box. In order for it to stay that way, they don't want people experimenting with hardware.

Acer is budget/great value/best bang for buck. It is not an Alienware or other lappie designed to be upgraded with max customer support.

All the support and upgrade possibilities cost lot's of extra money. Hence the premium price.

That's it.

So no, Acer does not suck. Sorry.

 

You didn't lose me at all when it comes to physically editing the bios.

Again I do apologize if I went off a bit on you but please let me explain my rationale.

We typically see two types of people on these forums (sometimes 3 but typically 2)

1. Those that need help repairing a broken acer due to miss use or missing windows disks

2. Those that offer advice

3. Those that wish to rant due to ______ (fill in the blank)


I always try to be helpful on these forums, but I seem to run into more and more problems recently with complains and less substance.

I will be the first to tell you that Acer has faults, all OEM builders do. But I haven't experienced some of the problems that other individuals have listed.

I guess the problem I am having is two fold when it comes to OEM's and the support they are offering.

#1. If the system is out of warranty they do not have to work with you on anything... period. This is exactly the same as car manufacturers, etc.

#2. People looking to do things that fall outside the terms of standard use (I fall into this as well I guess). But in your case wanting to physically modify the bios to support a new processor.... Acer would probally just say no due to it being out of warranty and secondly they can't condone any action along those lines.

I think it would be beneficial if they would list what memory is supported by the unit, what cpu (not only based off the chipset), etc. but in reality I haven't see any official OEM provider give this information out other than desktop motherboard manufacturers (Asus / MSI / Intel / Etc.)

I just kinda want to say that yes, we all have issues that need to be fixed...we just need to stay positive and work towards finding better support. I know that the "community" fix typically happens before the vendor (if they fix it at all).

Just my .02 cents Lets see what I can do to help you further, but lets try and refrain from giving the wrong advice only to blame the oem manufacturer (you can't make a ford fiesta go zero ---> 60 in 3.8 seconds and you surely can't our should expect something designed to only stay within the limits of it's own devices to exceed it and then say the manufacturer sucks)





--ssx--

 

He doesn't want to physically modify the BIOS - he just wants to open it to see if the T9500's microcode is in there and supported.
CharredPC, I understand your frustration, but SSX4life does raise a good point - if you're outside of the warranty, and especially trying an unsupported upgrade, Acer treats you as persona non grata unless you fork over the cash or escalate.
So escalate! Call the headquarters directly (especially if they've got a Customer Service Rep), and vent your frustrations and concerns. Maybe you'll get the answer you want.

 

Maybe it's just the fact that I've been on both sides of this in my career- IT repair and customer service. See, I'd be 100% pleased with them if they had said,

"Dear Sir,
I'm sorry, our Acer Extensa 5620 BIOS only officially supports up to a T8100 processor. We cannot guarantee compatibility above that, nor do we currently plan on releasing further BIOS updates for that older model. You may want to consider our new line of notebooks, which offer the performance you are looking for at the affordable Acer price. We do recommend that if any such upgrades must be done, you employ a certified repair center by trained technicians. Unfortunately we cannot help troubleshoot this matter further, as your current warranty period has expired. See the links below for renewal / support options. Thank you for your continued ownership of Acer products!"

That would have been perfect. It's not the hardware that I feel sucks (unlike various other posters, I guess). All hardware has their limits. I just feel I should be allowed to know what those limits are. It's not even what the final answer is, really. It's the fact that I'm not even allowed to know if they have one unless I pay $60 up front. The "dialogue" going on in my online support thread is me attempting to explain my need for this one small fact, and three so far (I kid you not) identical copy/pastes from them explaining how I should spend money on the off chance that they can answer "yes" or "no."

At this point, I'm not expecting to get any real answer here. I've worked for places with lousy products but excellent customer support. I've worked for places that had a solid product, but horrific or non-existent support options. I think I'd rather have the former, but here we see the latter. Which I guess that was the main point of this thread. It's a shame, and a frustration, and entirely unnecessary. Where has quality of care gone? I'd have been fired if I'd ever given out this kind of treatment.

 

I'm agree with TeeJay 44 and SSX4life, I'm browsing other forums around here and I know for sure that (for example) DELL's CS can suck as much as Acer's, but since Acer is a budget brand, everyone find it oh-so-easy to bash it for this, and for that, and for whatever one can think of.

And to answer to your question, if your are sure that T8300 is running flawlessly, so would and T9500. Both are 800MHz FSB CPUs, so the chipset is capable of running them.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=preaching+to+the+choir =)

I feel your pain... I also do full time customer service and hardware / software support for educational institutions. Acer won't give out the full details and spec's on their equipment...doesn't make it right, but doesn't make it wrong either

But hey if you have 500 mil and want to start a new hardware company that goes along the same lines of google's philosophy by all means sign me up

 

That's what I thought, but it's hard to base a $239 decision on a "well, it should!" I've been taught to measure six times, maybe seven, then cut once...

Oh, I wish. It wouldn't be so difficult, either... simply provide the same amount of public information and support as you would a desktop. Encourage home experimentation. Open source the bios. Offer the external plastics in different colors / designs / styles. Give the user any amount of creative control (ie, hardware upgrades, BIOS menu tweaks, etc) and you gain an instant fan-base. Enough disclaimers and warnings, and you're nicely insulated, like when Asus started making boards with all the overclocking options. Just bringing the 'underground' to the forefront and giving it recognition would secure a niche, in my opinion.

That's a big beautiful dream. I'd settle for an English CSR who doesn't act like they're doing me a favor by reading unhelpful, off-topic script.

 

Even I have a few Acer machines. I don't like Acer very much. But I already adept and familiar with Acer. Of course, I know Acer bad in:
a.) Customer Services
b.) Hardware problems(your fate, if the hardware you get is OK, then it can stay for years without a single problem. However, sometime a bad one, it only stay for months).
c.) BIOS setup
d.) Bloatware kingdom

Hell Yea! Acer good in:
a.) Low price with good specification!!FTW!
b.) Good looking design(I like it XD)

The most regret stuff was buying AS 6920G due to its throttle problem(It is BIOS related, I fixed it using some strange ways). I would have buy another brand of laptop if giving me 2nd chance(time reverse). Maybe ASUS. I still remember when I bought AS6920G, I was a pure noob on choosing brand and specification. All I can blame is my noobness that time. Maybe this is my fate though.

 

I hope not to sound offensive but this is really stupid.
1) First of all Acer Products are not meant to be upgradeable so they wouldn't know or they would care just like other Vendors.
If they know it is a bonus if they don't it is normal
2)Instead of Ranting here go Intel website download the spec sheet and start looking.
The architecture is identically very unlikely it wouldn't work.
BIOS update.
Cache difference doesn't matter more importantly architecture matters.
You look for socket compatibility.
Even if they give you the BIOS source code and make you sign an NDA I bet you can't tell unless you are a programmer and even if you are one you still need to download Intel documentation and start looking hich bring me back to start of point 2
Lastly I like to say if is official, OP sucks.

and Darksilver take d.) off your list because I found a method to overcome that nonsense.

 

Then it's time to call the Acer headquarters in your area - go over the Tech Support's head, and inform the big suits exactly what's been ticking you off.

Oh, and Weinter? Might wanna clarify that "TS" stands for "Tech Support" and not, y'know, "TehSuigi." For a second there, I thought I had done something to upset you.

 

Isn't TS = thread starter?

 

On NBR, we use OP = original poster.

 

Wow, weinter, where do I begin?

1) Just because something is not "meant" to be upgradeable doesn't mean they don't have any record whatsoever of the microcode they add into the BIOS. As I said, most companies (yes, even laptop ones) include text files with the BIOS that document the changes and fixes included. That data is all I was looking for.

2) I'm very familiar with the Intel spec sheets. Are you familiar with the countless motherboards which should run certain processors but don't, all because the BIOS hasn't ever been updated to recognize the perfectly compatible hardware? There's reasons why Wim's Bios forum has an entire section devoted to that topic alone. Chipset and socket are unfortunately only part of the story. And I was well aware of that compatibility before ever considering contacting Acer to verify.

3) I've personally used a Pheonix Bios editor to look over the ACPI code, browse the video instruction, and with a little help from Google, yes, I could find the proper microcode. No NDA's required, just some experience and a willingness to try. It may seem advanced and mysterious to you, but it's very possible, or I wouldn't bring it up.

And speaking of not bringing things up; I suck, Sir? You're blatantly waving around your massive ignorance like a ten foot banner. Your childish efforts to refute my points make you sound thirteen. Wait, are you thirteen? If so, I meant no offense... Bottom line is, I was programming BASIC before we had hard drives, kid. Building, rebuilding, and supporting hardware is my professional job, not just a personal hobby. You really don't need to try teaching me the error of my IT ways.

If you think the world is perfect as-is, more power to you. I simply recall when customer support meant something other than "the lowest foreign bidder" and I am calling Acer out on it. If you read my posts, you'd know; it's not the answer I'm complaining about. It's the absolute disregard for someone that, regardless of warranty, is still their active customer. Every time I carry my laptop in public, their logo is prominent. The very fact that I want to keep their laptop, upgrading it to still be relevant three years from now, should show something.

It used to be that satisfied, happy customers were the best way to get new sales and more income. Now it's idiocy and extortion, with everyone jumping in to defend it...

 

1)Not meant to be upgradable means there is no intention to support client personal after sales upgrade interest perfectly reasonable considering it is not advertised as a upgradable laptop.
My guess is the same will be encountered with some other vendors.
You want upgradable laptop go for other customized brands which also cost more.

2)Unless it is a new different socketed CPU the old motherboard or they did some major changes to the architecture there is no reason it will not detect it properly.
The driver for a Processor is not processor specific it is family specific.
It is detected via CPUID which is a set of code to correct detect processor.
It is vendor standard AMD CPUID is mostly similar yet some minor difference from Intel CPUID
So you just need to look for processor under the same family.
Cache sizes do not matter much.

3) PBE does not reveal CPU MicroCode.
I HAVE PBE and can smell such BS.
ACPI code is present because it is passed to OS to be read and configured for power/temperature hence the code is readable.
It is even document because ACPI is a specification.
Unless you work for the Intel/AMD or Vendor company as a BIOS engineer the CPU Modules is not available for your viewing pleasure thorough reverse engineering because during compilation the modules are stripped clean and assembled. You cannot reassemble because a lot of codes are removed so don't lie people can see through them immediately.
I will only believe you unless you tell me 1)you have the secret documents 2)You somehow talk read and write binary even so the BIOS doesn't give a lot of information because information is abstracted.

Btw harddisk came out in 1956 and BASIC in 1964 try to wiki your lies first at least to make them sound more plausible.
At least more some effort into lying since I put effort into replying.

I am not defending Acer or what .
It is true their support sucks but your request far exceeds what is expected or to be delivered hence unreasonable to claim Acer sucks.

 

1) You're ignoring everything I said. Well then, I guess I have nothing to refute here.

2) Welcome to Reality. Or better yet, browse around here. Those are real people, in many cases seeking to make compatible cpu's run on their bios-crippled motherboards. You can keep saying "determined by socket, should work" all day long, but here in the real world, we've seen time and time again that certain manufacturers block things, mess up code, have 'whitelists', etc.

3) I've never done much BIOS editing, but know it has been done. I used PBE as an example since that was something I was familiar with, in regards to looking at a BIOS' innards. But okay, let's cite real examples. This fellow here has successfully modified his bios, mainly using MMTool and a hex editor. And once again, I'm not out to manually edit anything... simply suggested that perhaps one possible option was to look at the code. Sorry, I must have missed the part where I staunchly claimed what you're so irately opposing.

Since you are still yammering on about my requests being so rediculously outlandish, obviously not reading my replies, I'll end this debate here. I'm happy to explain myself or engage in discourse, but shallow one-sided arguments do not appeal to me. It's already well past good taste, and I should know better than to sink into flame wars with the juvenile. Keep your Wiki-war data; as I said, when I programmed BASIC, we had no hard drives. Did some exist, somewhere, costing thousands of dollars and holding less than a CD? Sure. But obviously no one I knew had one. I must admit that I'm fascinated that it bothers you so much you're actually doing online research on my behalf. I don't know whether to feel flattered or creeped out...

Maybe later you can come back and understand that a bios update change log is not some holy grail rarity. It's a standard inclusion of publicly available information listing what is different in each build. One glance at that 50-char text file, and Acer could readily say yea or nay. Or they could even post it online, as most other vendors do. If you feel that's pushing all bounds of reason, you must have really low expectations. And again I clarify that it is their customer support, not my cpu issue, which rates them at the bottom of my list. Your mis-aimed counterpoints are facetious.

My apologies to everyone else on the board This all began when I was able to aquire a cheap T9500 on eBay. Upon installation, it didn't work. Before telling the seller he sold me defective merchandise and making yet another $200+ purchase, I wanted to make one more effort to verify that it was completely compatible with my laptop. Hence the Acer call, hence my frustration, hence this thread. As an update, I took the cpu to work and examined it under magnification. There is in fact a less-than-hairline crack across the actual die. The fact it wouldn't boot up is now not at all surprising. The seller agreed to refund, and my next T9500 purchase will be a new OEM, so there can be no doubts.

 

What you are claiming is you are able to tell the Microcode support over PBE which is impossible.
What the other people are doing is rip out the Microcode of something they KNOW will not support and replace it with the Microcode of something they KNOW will support or simply adding new lines to the Microcode to enchance the code when Vendor stopped BIOS updating.
And can you show examples of non-supported CPU of the SAME Family to support your claims?
Because what I know is identical architecture uses the same Microcode the only differentiating factor is they disable certain feature for CPU of different price range.
They do not develop individual Microcode for individual CPU that will be too expensive and non-standardised.

 

@CharredPC - Was your CPU Engineering Sample (ES), or it was S series one?

 

@triturbo - It was an engineering sample. Cheaper than retail, and the T9500 9QWW I bought has the same C0 stepping as the S series. But now that I've found new OEM T9500's for only $29 more, I'd much prefer OEM.

 

It is engineering sample(ES) CPU and GPU cheaper?
What is the advantages of using ES CPU and GPU?
I did see some GPU come with OC in-a-box. I am confuse about these stuffs.

 

The only advantage is that it's cheaper. The downside is instability and incompatibility, because the things are unfinished products.
GPUs overclocked from the factory? That's more of a desktop thing.

 

Yeah, I was looking at Q9WW too, but thanks God I found a killer-deal SLAYX one Good luck with the new one Do you mind to tell us from who you bought the ES one?

 

Engineering Samples (marked ES) are a mixed bag. They are unfinished sample cpu's given out by Intel (or AMD) to manufacturers for testing purposes. On one hand, often they are chosen as samples because they test very well. Some claim they overclock better and run cooler, being the best of the batch, so to speak.

As TehSuigi mentioned, though, unless you do some research first, you could be getting something not nearly as good as the final product. For example, there's a couple different T9500 ES cpu's being sold on eBay right now. The one I bought is pretty much the same as OEM. Previous versions run hotter, use more power, have incorrect temperature sensors, etc. Unfortunately you'd never know any of that if you looked at those auctions.

Also, the history of these processors is usually pretty rough. Sometimes overclocked for a tech preview article, sometimes stress-tested, sometimes run on experimental motherboards, and often changing hands more than once. I was willing to take the chance when I thought I was saving a considerable amount of money, but for most people I wouldn't recommend it.

 

That vendor only had this individual one to sell, and has been very nice about giving a refund. I'd rather not spread his account name around in slander Is your killer deal one I can repeat? I'm about to purchase a new T9500 OEM for $239 shipped.

 

Wise decision

Well, I don't know. He lists like 4 processors for bidding, after that there is a pause for couple of weeks and than again. Last time, there wasn't T9500 though. Two T9300, a T8300 and another one, I can't remember. Here is his profile: http://myworld.ebay.es/swapshop-outlet/ You can check it from time to time, if you haven't bought it till he puts something for sale And $239 shipped is pretty good price, I won mine for $212 shipped.

 

Looks like a good deal, and a good seller. Kudos to him for this: "NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN ENGINEERING SAMPLE." The only thing I'd worry about is that they do not appear to be new... at least, it's not specified. After this last experience, I'm a little gun-shy when it comes to used. The seller I got my T9500 from even had 100% feedback!

 

I agree that Acer customer service is bad.
In fact ... having 0 explanation for the changes in newer versions of BIOS is unsatisfactory.
It's a basic requirement at the very least that SHOULD be in the changelog (which was never included to begin with).
Calling up Acer support and asking them on what exactly the new BIOS version supports is legitimate and actually they would be obligated to answer since they haven't bothered to put up a changelog.

Now I cannot say anything about Acer in other countries, but I think Acer in UK is notoriously bad, plus I dealt with their customer support over the phone and the guy kept droning about one thing, ignoring everything I said about the problem and said he'd even have to charge £70 for removal of passwords from my system unless I give them to him.

Excuse me, but giving them access to my files is idiotic to say the least.
Not that I have crucial info on the hdd to begin with ... but at the same time, Acer should have the tools necessary to conduct any tests outside of OS unless the problem is software and Windows based ... in my case, it's not as the problem appeared outside of Windows.

Acer's behavior in terms of customer support is un-excusable and they should provide basic service to people with adequately trained individuals who at least TRY to understand the problem and they have to pass you on to someone else who is more experienced if you request them to do so.
That's what basic part of customer service is.
Acer doesn't deliver on that subject.

 

Hi,I'm sorry but Acer service have no legal, or otherwise, requirement to provide any information about the changelog, what makes you think otherwise, just because some do?
Acer are also just covering themselves, equally someone could argue that Acer have delayed the the repair because they didn't say anything about passwords, devil you don't devil you do. If someone leaves sensitive information on a laptop that's in for repair then that's their own lookout, well stupidity...
Chris

 

A small post.

Acer, being best bang for buck etc. do not want people experimenting with their lappies.

Can anybody else here read between the lines??

If a new lappie user want's something to experiment with...than pay the premium price. Try Alienware or any other lappie manufacturer that both allows and is designed for upgrades. At the premium price. And rightly so.

Could any reader of this post possibly imagine what would happen if Acer allowed a free for all encouraging upgrades and 100% support. They would go bust. Because it is not built into the design or price.

And this Forum would really be overwhelmed. Think folks.

 

TeeJay 44 .... every time that we had try ed to offer some wise advices ,
on conversations like this , we had burn our fingers .... because of young ones who believes , that ACER , are their second dad , that he will not get pist , what ever they do .

As long , advises as : Be gentle to your laptop .. Do no mess up the software.... Do not use force on it ..... Make backups before gets shipped for repair .

Looks like words in the wind .....

I had no energy left , to keep pushing on this direction.

About the price premium .. I will disagree !!
If you acting like a horny donkey , when dealing with service departments ,
no one will offer you quality services , because of your luck on acting by a civilized manner .
Plus , irritating behavior and unjustified screams , will cause issues to any logical person.

The solution .... because most laptop users are young ones ,
that do not have the proper education ,
to deal with matured professionals ,
its best to let their parents to solve out the " Mystery " ..

Now if the young ones, does not like their parents to know , that they are responsible , for the death of their laptop !!

Thats a family problem , and not an forum or ACER problem ..

 

Good to see you back Kiria. Hope you are well.

I cannot be straightforward anymore. Like the Old days. When this place rocked. And people listened.

I have lost interest. And so have the Best of the Best.

Work it out Folks.

 

Maybe CharredPC is out of warranty, but I think Acer could be a little kind, and tell him the answer. It's true, that they don't have to answer his question, but if they keep on going like that, they will in the end destroy their reputation because of bad service.

A company who offers good service and good hardware will automatically achieve good reputation.

 

Well ACER does that all ready , in some instances they had hardware issues in few models .
But never was negative if the problem was truly theirs .

But still , they are not a kindergarten , that keeps everyone happy , even having right or wrong .

I believe that sweet talk , will solve most issues , than the "stubborn screaming donkey " as behavior .

And I say that , because I have read allot in this forum , and I got allot first hand experiences ..

 

Well one of those , said that he will come to North Greece for vacations,
and I waiting to see him .

 

Hoggie or BigO?

 

Hog...

 

Hey guys, would you please chat in other topic, because it's a bit frustrating seeing "Acer now sucks" thread, when I click on the New posts button

 

Aaaa thats something that you have to love in time .

Its the only opportunity for some relaxing chat ..


Before the thread goes smoked ...