M17x DPC Latency

that noise is the stutter

 

After a milionth reinstall of windows (7), now I can't even game. The system freezes after like 10 minutes. Plus very often I get huge cpu usage (that increase the stuttering effect) out of nowhere. I just idle, with minimum software installed and apps running, and it keep throttling to 100%. (I did the 14 step install, the cpu park registry settings, except i didnt install tpad drivers - for a reason unknown to me, once I install those drivers the tpad starts acting all weird after disconnecting the usb mouse)

 

good find. however this makes angry. why? they dont cooperate with Dell? why they should ask us about it? and its been two weeks since Dell claimed they work with nvidia... well said its a notebook issue

 

What's going to be interesting is when all of the angry Lenovo owners see that thread... They've been fighting with nVidia since 2008 and still don't have a solution for the T-series.

My guess is that Dell contacted them, nVidia is denying the issue and Dell pressured them into asking the question... NOW, are they prepaired for the answer?? Hmmmm. This could be entertaining.

 

On my way

Posted...Im a happy chappy...really!

 

Read your post, nice lol

 

I think the last line summed it up, no?
I dont really go for the whole fanboy thing, I just buy the best I can regardless of ATI/Nvidia, but this whole issue is certainly putting me off Nvidia right now, that's for sure!

 

Added my post as well

 

Nice post, Alex. Now given that your machine uses the same slots and setup, couldn't you just buy ATi 4870 cards off the market and install them yourself on the Comanche? Is it at all possible? I know Kobalt don't currently offer these as an option, but you do have the MXM slots, and the card design isn't propriety.

 

Can't because I dont have the BIOS tweak the M17x has had to activate one of the backend PCI-E features which would allow Crossfire. I could buy a single card, and it might well work, but Crossfire wouldn't
Besides, I'm willing to give Kobalt some time to deal with it, they've been decent to me so far, so if no fix is forthcoming, they might be willing to swap my cards etc when Clevo supported ones are out.

 

Kade,

Cool idea, but it won't work... Only way it could happen is if Clevo gets fed up with nVidia like we're becoming and makes a bios revision.

To handle the ATI cards, the Phoenix NoteBIOS has to be programmed to recognize the hardware... you just can't pop in anything that fits and have it work. Laptop bios don't have the 'intelligence' (for lack of a better word) of their desktop counterparts.

Also, CrossfireX requires that PCI-E to PCI-E bus writes be permitted. Dell had to do some major manipulation in the M17x to turn that on our nForce based boards.

 

Oh, I knew about the bios-factor. I was assuming that if a tweak or update was provided, then we could get our own parts.

As for what they did with the M17x, it should be just as easy to implement through a BIOS update in the Clevo models, if not easier. Right?

 

Agreed, I used to favor Nvidia products, as I had bad experiences with ATI many years ago, but they were nothing as bad as this and as of right now I want nothing to do with Nvidia for at least a few years until they clean up their act.

lt is however Dell's and Clevo's responsibility to resolve their customers issues promptly via a FULL refund or an exchange, it's not our responsibility to hold Nvidia's hand, that falls to Dell and Clevo, and it's not our responsibility to wait months for Dell to come up with a fix. The time for resolution is now.

 

hi all. Please don't bash me for my noob latency question lol. How HIGH of a latency with the test program is bad? I'm just asking because I don't know if I have the problem or not. The only game I had stuttering issues with is Runes of Magic. Its a cheap, free to play mmorpg, so I figured it was just crappy coding and always thought it was just a memory leak since it takes a hour or so before it starts.

But on the other side, Dragon Age with everything maxed out, doesn't skip, stutter, shake, rattle, or roll at all. It runs pretty much flawless other than the fans running 90 to nothing.

I've been running the latency program tonight and at first glance it looks awful but my question is.... what is awful?

 

For all that have been experiencing DPC Latency, Stuttering, and Lock Ups with there M17x please register & let nVidia know the score as its gone on long enough.Takes 2 mins to register.Considering how widespread this is here only 18 posts so far?. Let them know this is not acceptable .

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157614

 

Well I said I would post here. My problems appear fixed. No lockups and no issues with cracks and pops. Actually my machine is totally fluid at the moment. The ATI 4870s fixed the issue apparently. I will post here again in a couple days to verify my experience but I think its the video cards guys. This appears to have totally worked and if not it is FAR better than it was to say the least. Even windows itself seems to have less lag. I will post my DPC checker here in a min.

 

Ok apparently I cant post a image without linking so whatever with that but my latency average is 100 and spikes to 1200 (slightly in the yellow) but no pops whatsoever. Anyway I will keep kicking the system around to see how it does but overall things are looking good for replacing the cards with ATI to resolve the audio issues.

 

phonics2 Just take your time reading this thread u will see many posts of M17x owners DPC screens with various drivers,Bios combinations

 

erm a guy on http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/12/30/19591948.aspx says that his single 4870 causes stuttering and dpc latency as well.


and another on the nvidia thread http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157614&st=0&p=991855&#entry991855 says that the latency decreased significantly but still gets high spikes once in a while..

so atis dont solve the problem? should i keep insisting for an r2 instead of just getting the 4870s to replace my gtx280s?

 

You would be the first one getting an R2 for an R1. It's a tough one.

 

i know but it wouldnt make sense if the 4870s still have the problem and i ask for dell to replace the 4870s for my gtx280s and i still have the same problem.

either way ill have to spend lots of time with dell on the phone so might as well get the solution that fixes the problem

 

Hi Rubyboy, I know this has been back and forth with many opinions etc. I had heard that ATI does fix this. So far in my testing the lag spikes are basically gone and the audio is perfect. No cracks and pops at all. I am using 2 cards in SLI. Overall my whole system is running better IMO. I even upgraded to the latest ATI drivers with no problems at all. Things are fast, no real hangs that I have seen so far and no snap crackle pop. I did have one or two lag spikes that produced an audio glitch in AION but I think that could have been more of an MMO problem than a system issue. My system can play music and I can be in AION in full graphics window mode with no issues at all. For what its worth so far it looks like a workable solution if not a fix. Either way, I would rather have what I have now over the 260s I had.

 

hmm.. but then how come some are still having the problems?

im really concerned if i ask for the 4870s as replacement then the problems still exists and ill have to waste time to call them all over again. you know, start a new case etc etc and wait for escalation and days of waiting for the right person to pick up the phone..

im willing to give it a shot though.. apparently 4870s arent available in asia -.-

i suspect the time they become available is when the r2 hits my country so im thinking of asking for an r2 once and for all(if it doesnt have the latency stuttering issues,which is most probably) -.-

 

Well if nothing else its better but the r2 is a mobo change correct? Its your call man but I am happy I did the upgrade so far and can post again at the end of the weekend to confirm my performance. I think the other key here is there are tons of drivers that need to be installed just so for windows 7 and I have all of them in place in the order dell recommended except for the system chipset (using Nvidias 15.51 sans the disk management) and using the modded ATI driver. Everything else is factory. I also used driver sweeper to clean all the old crap out before starting my ATI testing. Who knows what happens if you have fragments of different drivers or some such but I am betting it does aggravate the issues.

 

yes the r2 is an intel mobo.. but the thing is it doesnt have an integrated chip so battery life will be about an hour.

i might give the 4870s a try first but so far i cant even get dell to give me a proper reply yet.

so much for next business day warranty. its been over 2 weeks since i reported it

 

I'm pretty sure they will make you try the 4870's first. It's like they have to follow some specific order of solutions.

 

That's the case:
ATI cards remove the portion of the latency associated with Nvidia GPUs (probably by stressing the weak chipset less), but the problem still exists, it is in the Nvidia chipset itself, and we can't even guess how long will it take
till the whole issue will get worse and we will end up with dead mobos shortly after the warranty expiration date.... I really hope to prove wrong on that one, as I like the system very much and don't want to blame anyone.
Would (and did) normally defend Dell, but have to admit, Dell has to take the issue very seriously and bring forth a reliable and fast solution.
In our case there are only 2 options:

1) Design/revise/etc a new motherboard for M17x-R1 (maybe even fit the R2 mobos into our systems if it's cheaper)

2) Authorize a total refund and/or swap to R2 systems.

IMHO, there's no fix on a software level (I thought otherwise in the past and proved wrong! ), other than temporary patches that will only hold a few for a short time until disaster hits!

Worst yet, we don't even know for sure if the R2 is stutter free...

 

i guess someone needs to buy M17X R2 but who will after all this story? reliability of Dell -Alienware has been destroyed. Profit is their best criteria but for such machines is not just taking parts and build them together.

one question guys people with ATI can use the fn+f7 option to immediately switch to intergrated graphics?

 

If that is the case, remember, most of us here (that I know of) were symptom free in Vista. Get that its hardware, get that its driver HAL layer problems, Get that changes can help fix the issue, but I have trouble buying that it will "break" the motherboard or add any stress because it stands to reason that if the vista drivers and HAL can correct the issue then it is a software/drivers/HAL solution at the end of the day that should be able to correct it in Win 7. Otherwise the world makes no sense. This simply should not be a major issue for people in Vista and I had no issues at all but bought this machine for 7 and did not want to compromise because DELL said it will work. What am I missing, are people saying vista has issues too?

As for the upgrade, I am here to say if it is not fixed it is still noticeably better and probably "good enough" IMO to call this a dead issue unless somehow this weekend I return to massive locking and stuttering.

 

The first thing they do when you get the ATI is disable the 9400. No hybrid software therefore no switching. SLI all the time. At least that is what the guy I worked with had me do. I dont care about the 9400 so it was not a big deal but I know others may not care for that. Can someone who has native ATI speak to the config from the factory?

I guess I could call Dell and find out but it stood to reason it will not work.

 

I for one had the same issues in Vista as I do in Win 7.

 

the issues are not absent from vista. they are just much better.

 

Well I am not seeming to have the crackle pop dpc issue anymore but I just had the hang issue again. I was told that could be fixed with the storage driver but I have ripped it out so I am not sure what to do next on that but the DPC seems fine still.

 

Just wanted to give you a little update on my experience with Vista x64:

as of today i've reinstalled my system 3 times. It's only the 2nd installation that gave me stutter while watching videos/ gaming/ playing audio. I have no idea why this happened at all, all basic tweaks proved ineffective (i did not touch the registry). I think it was the only reinstal i did on Bios A02.

This week i had to reinstal my system for the 3rd time (because ocz vertex 1.5 fw totally messed up my drive... had to sanitary erase on another system). And now everything is cool, stutter completely gone. It's my first fresh instal on Bios A03. Even pressing eject button (i know we dont care) only gives a latency under 4000 and no stutter whatsoever.

I'm back to being happy with my system and this clearly isn't a hardware issue if i can have stutter and make it disappear. I really hope Dell comes up with a fix for you guys with windows 7.

 

Does the audio stutter disapper for you when you disable powermizer?
It seemed to not go away to me

 

for me powermizer off almost totally removes stuttering even on win7 x64. i guess my chipset is good.

 

Done: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157614&pid=992087&st=20&#entry992087.

Don't be shy guys, NVidia are actualy the only ones who have the real power miser to fix this; let's put pressure on them, so they might wake up...

Soon enought, hopefully...

 

You're right. It's about time to give them a wake up call. This flagship laptop costs enough not to have this kind of problem. This said, I still don't give up on Dell, although some more information about where they are standing (e.g. whether it will take them longer than a week/month, where the issue is related to) would be much appreciated. IMHO, it's not wise to keep your high-end system customers 'in the fog' for a too long time. I keep my hopes on mister John B on the Dell forums to get some clear messages out soon.

Done: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157614&st=20&gopid=992101&#entry992101

 

with the 195.xx drivers you can disable powermizer completely. But with the 186.xx you cant. If anyone finds a way to lock the GPU's clock with the 186.xx drivers let us know!

 

Stuttering in Vista is lower but still present. I had occasional spikes above 16k as well as occasional freezes in certain (not all) games and as far as I remember all who claimed to be stutter-free in Vista (@stock, no tweaks, without disabling the Powermizer) never provided DPClat screenshots.
Regarding future chipset/mobo failures:
I wanted to simplify things and spare you the explanations.
If you google the Nvidia chipset issues with MAC (2008-2009), you might also stumble across and article showing a diagram of a sample Nvidia chipset tested for material properties where you can see how the safety limits where severely neglected and certain elements(metals) where found in quantities up to 100X above the safe level. I don't wanna enter too deep into the Materials Engineering theory (unless you angry me ) but know that even a 10% concentration increase of certain elements can severely change elecro-mechanical properties of the material and affect the durability. And we are not talking about 100years' cycles, we are talking about immediate change, especially under certain temperatures conditions (and you know that MCP79 runs crazily hot even when Idle).
The upgrade does improve the situation, but only because of the fact that ATI GPUs can sometimes bypass the CPU/MCP and communicate directly with each other (P2P), thus reducing the overall load and instability issues.

 

I've had my input - but I think it might take more than 28 replys for anything to happen if anything happens at all.

 

Thanks Aikimox. That makes sense. Guess I will be getting the extended Warranty on this heap then.

 

Hey does anyone know how to adjust saturation for regular windows and 3D and not just movies with the ATI drivers. I am no noob but the instructions don't even show a shot of how to get in there and I can easily find color control but saturation is absent.

 

Thus the begging for people to add their comments there.

Nice idea Sauce !

 

look @ that ...

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=157614&pid=992176&st=20&#entry992176

And the most beautiful part is that what I wrote is absolutely true...

 

eYe-I-aïe... Good shout .Whats the bet your posts will be deleted i have heard that nVidia don't like hearing the truth on there forum's and certain post's suddenly disappear.We will see come Monday

 

Honestly, eye got no clue.

What I do know on another hand is that I am actually offering them a chance to get their head out of the sandbox they've dive in.

What path shall they choose from there, your opinion is as good or maybe even better than mine...

They're at the bat, I just sent them my best curve;​

will they hit or drop the ball, like you say, time will tell. ..​

Let's just hope the best for them, and us...

 

I think your post should be deleted. It's doesn't help them in any way

 

Yup, eye agree, but it's not my call...

 

Yep mine should probably be deleted too, although it was slightly helpful in the beginning my anger took hold and had it's way with me through the rest of my post.