M17x DPC Latency

yes, thanks for clarifying.. at least we know there are some dell people looking in this thread.

however, is it possible for you guys to maybe tell dell management to send a memo to every dell tech and customer service staff in every branch so that they know the problem exists dont keep asking us to reformat or do dell diagnostics all day long?

also, i understand dell is coming out with a solution but its been so long since the system came out and im sure everyone is tired of waiting. its not fair to keep us waiting while dell attempts to fix it. it may(i hope not but who knows) take another few months and i dont think its fair for us to wait dumbly with an overpriced paper weight while dell keeps trying to get a fix.

how bout authorizing r2 replacements or full refunds for those who are really badly affected and pissed?

dell is going to lose more money due to unhappy customers than if they replace our paperweights with proper working laptops.

 

just one question. why you dont officially change all M17X-R1 motherboards to R2 as you know nvidia chipset is faulty? you dont have to change the whole thing. only motherboard, fans and cpu as dual core not supported by intel one.

the time you spend on this shows that its really hard to fix. its not a matter of gpu driver only but motherboard as well.

 

cos they'll have to give u atis as well since sli doesnt work on the intel chipsets and the i7 processors cost more..

but yes i dont mind having just my mobo changed to the new one with an i7 instead of having an entier r2 replacement since the other parts are the same.

 

You would also have to change the screen as the socket on the mobo for the R2 is differant + ATI cards since the 260/280 seem to exaggerate the known problems

 

ok i ll set it a different way. why you dont offer upgrade options and we only have to buy a whole new machine to get rid of the fixes? just replace the parts and take our faulty parts whatever this means. it is said to be illegal to replace something with something else. illegal is to sell a faulty machine as well and even more such an expensive machine and just hiding the customers rights! Dell has replaced machines with new ones before. why not now.

we all know that the parts are recycled and the price of the laptop includes all those not willing things that may happen and its not its real price ..


i dont care if nvidia has given you wrong specs or faulty motherboards. you should have tested them and dpc latency is the only way to go and check if everything is right. not just see if the computers can work or not. the big deal is how they work. on a gaming beast like this everything matters.


i insist its the power pack on the motherboard of the whole NVIDIA MCP79 Chipset series. if am not wrong its the first motherboard with hybrid sli and guess what they screwed it.

 

From what I'm gathering, the R2 suffers from a lack of power which causes issues with screen flicker and other symptoms. I think it may be limited to the power draw due to ATI's and the 920XM. But who knows. As more uses get they R2 we will likely find more issues. Thus the R2 would be another frustrating replacement. I think it may be limited to the 920 users, but I don't know yet.

 

exactly what i was thinking about. the same happened with the R1. who noticed the stuttering the first days or who knew if it was normal or not. first symptoms of R2 are not very promising because power strength is not something changing from drivers..

 

yea ive read about the problems too.. how bout authorizing an r3 or future model replacement and promise it wont have any defects/swap it again if it does or just give a full refund..

@aristotelhs

are your atis working properly? or you still have some dpc latency related problem?

 

You have a great sense of humor! lol

 

i have described my experience with the ATIs before but i will say that again. i get red spikes every now and then until 4500μs. those spikes appear when doing something online or downloading. usually there are some yellow lines. In games performance is amazing. But a huge spike of 999000 appeared once but not since then... motherboard is crazy.

Those small red spikes that may appear dont cause stuttering. However those remaining red spikes maybe crucial for the audio editing and production that i am occupying with. minimum sound delays really matter.


UNDER STANDBY OR WHEN NOT DOING SOMETHING ONLINE, SAME WHEN PLAYING GAMES
http://i47.tinypic.com/292nsyg.jpg

RED SPIKES START WHEN EXITING GAMES, BROWSING, LOADING - REFRESH WEBPAGES

http://i50.tinypic.com/25tcbhh.jpg

So i could say that the issues still remain with the ATIs but they are not so serious as with GTX. motherboard and/or wireless still suck. If Dell believes that the ATIs completely solve the problem then this is ridiculous. the motherboard issues section exists. ATIs just stress the motherboard (power needs) less than nvidia gpus. i remind you that the hybrid sli doesnt work with ATIs of course.

 

they should use this as advertising if they come out with an r3 with no problems

" the first all powerful laptop without any issues! REALLY!"

 

did you format after installing them ?

 

5770 microseconds is nothing compared to 80K or 900K spikes. 5K spikes shouldn't affect your sound/games.

Every computer has latency. I played around with a macbook pro for a while, using it as a DJ-ing laptop. That was the only computer i've seen that didn't have spikes above 300. Shame it was an Apple.

 

install a03 bios.

since i install that and ati's. my manchine is a monster.

 

no i didnt but i am sure it wont solve anything.

no problem in real life but apple and the 300 spikes explain what i mean with audio editing.

A03 bios is installed. so no red spikes when loading webpages etc?

 

i had the same problems as you. what i did was a fresh install and dont install the 9400m or the chipset drivers and i was golden.

 

+ 1

 

no chipset drivers ? :\ isnt that kinda bad ? lol

 

no. it's much better without it install. i have 3 missing devices with is the co-prcessor and another stuff but i'm fine right now.

 

you don't get any red spikes ? ever ?

 

why does it matter if you install 9400 or not as soon as i doesnt work when discrete graphics are enabled?

you didnt install nvidia storage driver or all nvidia chipset drivers?

 

wwell of course i still do but very very little. i'll run 3dmark06 with the dpc in the background and see what i get.

nope i didn't install nothing name nvidia except nst performance and that's it.

i want to say that it will be different for everyone. also i found the dell drivers isn't that great. i'm using 9.12 hotfix.

 

Don, you dont need to run 3DMark06 and the DPC Checker at the same time. Just run the checker.

 

While 5-6k latency spikes are not creating audio/games stuttering and barely noticeable,.... for those working with rendering, CAD etc it can be a hell.

 

this is a full screen of it that's why i didn't img it.
http://i45.tinypic.com/mbkef6.jpg

i still have spikes but compare to before
http://i47.tinypic.com/20p5yiv.jpg

big difference.

 

The Dell official drivers are massively outdated for the chipset, the Win7 included drivers are more stable. The last official Dell set is actually a Vista only set, rather than a seperate Vista/Win7 release.

I would speculate this is the cause of a lot of issues, drivers for this chipset are actually up to 15.50, whereas you're on about 15.39 IIRC. Half tempted to do a reinstall without chipset drivers myself to see if that helps on my part at some point got too much stuff I dont really want to lose/have to rebackup and shift around over an afternoon.

 

i was on 15.51 for the chipset before....

 

Fair enough. Think Im on 15.50 sager release.

 

can you take a screenshot of your device manager to see what devices are those? and windows update didnt install anything?

thus dpc latency during benchmark is more possible not to give any red spikes because gpus and the whole system remains overclocked. red spikes are related to voltage changes (and not stable voltage) - again power pack of motherboard.

this actually shows that you still get red spikes even with 3 devices uninstalled. finally same situation as mine so you shouldnt say it works flawlesly.

 

I get random lock ups while playing online Counter Strike Source. With the Nvidia cards I had blue screens. Now it freezes but either way I have to power down and reboot.

 

counter strike is very old for testing and no demanding at all for this machine. i could think of compatibility issues than hardware problems for this game.

 

To me it looks obvious - Nvidia chipset is the culprit and the only reason underlying the latency issues. Their GPUs are fine, but 150 Watt of additional stress on the mobo is clearly too much of a strain on its little brain.

I'll be back with a proof for Dell since they are watching this thread...

 

If I use DOX Drivers, will it mess up my fan? (It blasts the fan)

 

they dont need proofs. i am sure they know that. just saying its a gpu driver issue.

 

April 2009 - A hint to "low quality solders"
May 2009
August 2009
And THIS will bring some light from a scientific point of view.
As you can see, Dell is well aware of the problem...But the contracts were made and the slippery path of BIOS fixes and patches along the road to save billions was their choice that may bring an end to the famous quality control and CS of the company. Alas...

 

Let`s just sue them. I might look for a lawyer next week about a class action against Dell and/or Nvidia. We can roll all of the owners of affected systems into it.

Maybe I`ll ping the outfits handling the Camry CAs.

 

Great Info and disappointment at the same time if true.
If we can confirme that M17x - R1 suffers from a defective Nvidia Chipset the least I expect is an R2 replacement.

 

Incredible information.... Nice job looking this stuff up.
With all these 'examples' of hardware failure by Nvidia, you would think Dell might be more wary using Nvidia chips in their systems. Maybe thats the reason they switched to Intel now.

I am waiting on my 4780 swap, if it doesn't resolve my problems I might join you into a collective lawsuit.

 

it will solve the problem on an advanced level but not professional as this machine was thought to be for. the issues with the motherboard exist. Dell claims to be concentrated on a top priority gpu driver fix. so dont expect anything for motherboard? of course they cant do anything about a hardware level issue. win7 sp1 (and hopefully new acpi) may play its role but it will come out in summer when most quarantes will end.

 

Yeah, I am not chasing them to change my cards anymore. The first time they booked a tech on a day when I told them I was out of town. Now twice they have booked my repair with nothing happening.

And their system is down every time I call. What useless bunch they are.

 

Please don't accept the R2 as replacement just yet. There are quite a few nbr members that are having issues with some of those aswell. Get a refund or wait for R3....;-) or R4, R5 or R6. I'm guessing summer 2013 is best time to buy AW again.
-.-

 

i am sure M17X R2 will be nothing after cebit 2010. the best time for another notebook is never. only desktop now on

 

Hopefully the upcoming CeBIt brings some good news .

 

Well, if people are looking to own the absolute 'latest' toys, then sticking with one laptop for more than a few months is futile.

This is more of an issue pertaining to basic issues with functionality. I think it's not unfair to expect even a perfectly sound and capable R1.

 

Aikimox,

I made it a point to follow these reports and events when they first came to light. The whole issue surrounding the articles you linked to was centered on the manufacturing process NVIDIA used and the materials. It sadly was responsible for a number of GPUs failing prematurely due to temp swings (high and low)/rinse and repeat cooling cycles. What the problem translated to was artifacting and dead GPUs, not DPC Latency spikes.

The last article you linked to - not sure if you fully read it - clearly shows details of a test performed on a MCP79 chipset. The results:

In any case, this does not resolve the issue with the DPC Latency however it does show this is not a case of 'bad solder bumps' on the 9400M G.

Take it FWIW.

 

So after the swap to ATIs and a fresh Win7 install, the DLP spikes and strutting reference in this earlier post are gone.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5777974&postcount=177
I do still get some spikes in the 3-4k range on window resizing and a 7k spike on eject but I have yet to reproduce any audio strutting that was so noticable before during the GPU downclock.

 

hm the interesting thing here is the only 7k spike when pressing the eject button. i get a 45000 K spike when i press it.

 

Well, that is a difference to consider. Some ATi users are getting only 4-7k with the eject button, while others are getting over 30k. I am not too comfortable with that degree of inconsistency.

However, I do have to ask you guys that is it even appropriate to make a fuss over the eject button? I know that it is an interesting 'test', but it's not like the constant pressing of such a panel button can be factored into daily gaming or music sessions. So long as the overall stutter and latency is gone, then what is the real issue?

 

In reference to the article that you are point to, it actually does make sense as to the BIOS/Clocking issues that are plaguing these machines. The 9400 has the good bumps, but the discrete 9600 has the inferior solder. How many people have DPC under the 9400 by itself? My fans are now almost constantly running to control the heat issues, even when i am not running anything really intense. I absolutely think that the downclocking and throttling behaviors of the current bios scheme is to artificially extend the life of the GPU and chipsets till we are all out of warranty. Why does the stuttering always occur with the GPU downclocking? Is the voltage being controlled to force a slow ramp up to take the stress off the circuit boards? I am not an engineer, and i am certain that the members of this forum are much smarter than a dumb car guy like me, but i have been in the Auto industry since 1988, and i have seen my share of loss/cost ratio b.s. in poor quality/design issues. If these GPU and CPUS are able to operate at 80c at their maximum states, why don't these machines choked down to throttle at 65-70c? It cannot be that the chassis doesnt have enough cooling capacity! I just got mine on the 6th of January, and i am very disappointed in my purchase.

By the way, Throttlestop absolutely solves my problems in framerate and stuttering issues when playing intensive games, and i havent had the temps read over 72c once.

I bet that the next BIOS will artificially control the DPC spikes, while further reducing the clocking of the GPU and CPU so they can get the fan noise under control. We will all see soon enough.

 

as first posts go, that was a really good one

interesting perspective