M17x lcd

Microcenter rarely raises prices on stuff, so as long as this is in stock, and if they do not sell a lot but still have stock, expect a drop in price (but this would be like 6 months down the road)

This happened with the HP Blackbird 002, my store got 3, had them for over a year and never sold one (originally priced at $3200 for a desktop worth about half that). Eventually lowered as low as $2200 I think before the store just dumped them to somewhere (never sold any from my location though)

 

LOL, yeah I asked for a custom engraving when I ordered mine, but they still sent the standard "m17x"....

 

that is a decent price - and a decent system....something I'd buy for my 12yo stepdaughter....

 

Better still, try out the HP EliteBook 8730w it supposedly has the "best" screen in the industry!

 

Anyone actually purchase from Microcenter online? ResellerRatings reviews make it seem like it's a store to freakin avoid.

 

or the Dell m6400...These HQ RGB led lcds should be offered in all high end notebooks.

 

Reseller ratings makes nearly every company look terrible.

 

what nemoris said is absolutely true, when everything goes well you never hear anything.

I worked at microcenter for 6 months, they are a solid and reliable company.

 

The RGBLED backlight displays have very wide color gamut (over aRGB) and the colors will look oversaturated as the current Windows and most applications aren't color-managed. So you don't really want them in gaming notebooks either, there are threads with many complains in all HP, Dell and Sony sections, most people haven't dealt with such displays before and there is currently no perfect solution anyway.
- http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=723315

Besides, I hate to say it but Samsung makes RGBLED backlight displays as well (the 17" ones on the HP 8730w / Dell M6400 are mostly LG though) and you could easily guess what issues people have had with them.
- http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=390972


In other words, Dell made a good choice to use bright, dual-lamp displays with improved for notebooks (but standard for desktops) color gamut (sRGB) and fast response time, but they just got them from the "wrong" LCD supplier that has been acting like that for years.


To finish the topic, uneven illumination and backlight bleeding are very common manufacturing defects with LCD displays in general, and you could have them even on expensive IPS monitors and HDTVs (Google for "uneven backlight"), which, however, doesn't make them any more acceptable as they simply are not.

The problem with Samsung and their notebooks LCDs specifically is that they seem to have significantly higher defective rate compared to the other suppliers as this story repeats all over again almost every time when someone releases notebooks with Samsung displays.

 

I had one more question... I hope im not intruding, but this seems the reasonble place to ask... P.S. This forum is the best regarding laptops and computer related stuff...

Since the 1920x1600 dell screens wont work (all the way to say the least), would this be a reasonable "other" choice to choose....

http://www.alienware.com/accessories/gear-shop-Detail.aspx?ItemId=17195&CatId=1441

OR

http://www.alienware.com/accessories/gear-shop-Detail.aspx?ItemId=17205&CatId=1441

Are these, if anybody knows, brighter and would the $650-$900 price tag make even a difference? thanks guys

EDIT:Should I just PM ZFactor since I seem to notice he is the "man" to talk to, regarding screens

 

Well I got my M17x today and so far I am quite ok with the screen. There is bleed at bottom, but dont really care and have not had any dimming issues.

So far colors and everything look great to me (but I am not a very picky person about these things)

 

Some people have reported that the screen got better overtime but is this what your screen looks like? Really bright on the bottom but fades/dims the higher up the screen?

 

That's one of the downsides of TN panels.

Edit: Take a look at my review for my Thinkpad. More specifically the LCD pics. It shows the difference between IPS and TN panels. LINK

 

No, this is just your misconception and I hope you could stop repeating it at some point as it's not exactly useful for anyone.

Uneven backlight is a common manufacturing defect with LCD displays in general as I said on the previous page if you bothered to read it at all. The problem is with the quality of backlight itself, not the panel or its type (TN, *VA, IPS).

This is also one of this reason as to why I was interested to see my expensive Sony HDTV with an IPS panel in person before I buy it.

Here is a T60p with a UXGA IPS panel and rather ueven backlight as well, if it's really that necessary (Note that the bottom is much brighter than the top).
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-IBM-Thinkpad-T60p-UXGA-Notebook.4404.0.html

And if that's not enough, you could simply Google for "IPS uneven backlight" which shouldn't be really that hard. You could also replace "IPS" with any another LCD display technology you know.

 

I guess the thousands of TN panels I have seen in my entire life have been faulty. Thanks for the education. So no difference in viewing angles and brightness with TN, IPS and AFFS screens. I'll go inform Boe-Hydis for you.

Edit: Here's a good article showing it has the same misconceptions I do. LINK
A bad IPS panel does not mean the technology is the same when it comes to brightness and viewing angles.

 

it just isn't really worth complaining about haha.....the screen is pretty much not replaceable on this model and looks perfectly fine with exception of the bleed at bottom, which I don't even notice unless full black screen

After 2 days with my screen, I have 0 complaints (it is also plenty bright for my needs - have had to turn it down once or twice to take it easy on eyes even)

 

Quick definition of TN from synlinktec.com:

TN Film (Twisted Nematic + Film) panels are the mostly widely used in the TFT market, with smaller sized screens (15", 17" and 19") being almost exclusively limited to this technology. Some other sectors are dominated almost entirely by this technology as well, including the 22" market, and the technology is slowly creeping into the larger screen sizes of 24, 26 and 28" even. The TN Film panels are made by many different manufacturers, with the big names all having a share in the market (Samsung, LG.Display, AU Optronics) and being backed up by the other companies including BOE HyDis, CMO, CPT etc.

TN Film has always been so widely used because it is comparatively cheap to produce panels based on this technology. As such, manufacturers have been able to keep costs of their displays down by using these panels. This is also the primary reason for the technology to be introduced into the larger screen sizes, where the production costs allow manufacturers to drive down retail costs for their screens and compete for new end-users. The other main reason for using TN Film is that it is fundamentally a responsive technology in terms of pixel latency, something which has always been a key consideration for LCD buyers. It has long been the choice for "gamers" screens and response times have long been, and still are today, the lowest out of all the technologies (at least on paper). Response times typically reach a limit of around 5ms at the ISO quoted value, and as low as 2ms across grey to grey transitions with Response Time Compensation.

The problem with TN Film is that viewing angles are pretty restrictive, especially vertically, and this is evident by a characteristic severe darkening of the image, especially if you look at the screen from below. Contrast and colour tone shifts are evident with even a slight movement off centre, and this is perhaps the main drawback in modern TN Film panels. Movie playback is often hampered by 'noise' and artefacts, especially where RTC is used. Black depth was traditionally quite poor on TN Film matrices due to the crystal alignment, however, in recent years, black depth has improved somewhat and is generally pretty good on modern screens, especially where dynamic contrast technologies are also used. In some cases it can even rival VA matrices in this regard, and certainly surpases IPS technology. TN Film is only a true 6-bit technology, but is able to offer a 16.2 million, and now even a 16.7 million, colour palette thanks to dithering and Frame Rate Control methods.

@Dreamer: this is just your misconception and I hope you could stop repeating it at some point as it's not exactly useful for anyone.

 

Are bleeds still as noticeable in the newer units or have AW fixed this issue?

 

it is noticeable in an all black/dark color screen...just like every LCD on the market...

Nothing to be mad about though (at least in my opinion)

 

Damn....I would of liked to have a black theme on my m17x

 

There is up 40% difference in brightness between the bottom and the top of the reviewed display, that's quite a noticeable difference and it's not acceptable for any LCD display today. Plain and simple, that's just a horrible quality control, and if you want to support it because of your misconceptions, then that's really your choice.

As to your education, I guess you have to learn to deal with objective information since almost any aspect of display quality could be quantified, so your subjective impressions/feelings are of no value to anyone.

Now you could go inform even the Pope about your myths and legends, I'm sure he will find them fascinating.

Btw, Boe-Hydis is now called Hydis Technologies, in case you are interested to contact with them.
http://www.hydis.com/eng/main.htm

This conversation is done, but don't expect people that have had notebook TN-based displays with good illumination to take you seriously.

 

You are right. I posted some articles in my previous posts from other sites that share my misconceptions.....we'll agree to disagree.

 

It's not about viewing angles but about uneven illumination which is objectively measured by a few review sites.

Anyway, the fact that you posted completely unrelated articles says enough about you and your education, I don't even need to say anything else.

Good luck with the Pope as it's highly unlikely that you are going to inform "Boe-Hydis" about anything.

 

If this debate wasn't about the poor lighting and viewing angles of TN panels vs. IPS then you are right I have no idea what you are talking about. I was just defending my original statement which has everything to do with the links I posted since they state what I have been saying.

If you want to continue with personal attacks I'm sure this will end ugly.

Something somebody says when they run out of facts. They just result in personal attacks.

 

Example: These are two 17" WUXGA dual-lamp displays, the first is the Samsung one on the Alienware M17x, the second is the AUO on the Asus G70s. I posted the pictures as you are apparently afraid to click on the links (the measurements of the other site are even more precise for those who are interested).

I told you that uneven illumination is a common manufacturing defect for LCD display in general, it's about poor backlitght quality and has nothing to do with viewing angles or display technology. I even provided you a link to a review showing a notebook IPS display with uneven backlitght and told you to use Google for more information regarding this defect.

You chose to ignore everything I said, that's really your problem I guess.

Says the guy who chooses to ignore the facts.

 

As a recently new m17x owner (4 days now) I was somewhat concerned regarding the quality of the screen.
But when I turned it on for the first time all of my concerns where gone with the wind, so to speak.
The screen on mine is crystal clear and almost no bleed to speak of.
Perhaps they have managed to resolve the issues that some of u had or I just got lucky .

 

Thanks for not making it personal this time around and I'm not ignoring you.

Why would you say "it's about poor backlight quality and has nothing to do with viewing angles" Improved backlight quality does not improve viewing angles?


"I even provided you a link to a review showing a notebook IPS display with ueven backlitght. "- That was clearly a bad panel or not an IPS panel and they screwed up the test. My original link proved the opposite.

 

@ Dreamer, do you even have an M17x?

The screen quality is going to be a highly subjective judgment. And according to your linked picture there is roughly a 20% difference in brightness top to bottom, that is not the end of the world.

And let's keep personal attacks out of the forum here......they accomplish nothing productive, and that is what this forum is for, being productive

 

Dreamer,

First, lay off Drake - OR ELSE! lol

Second, does the G70 Auto-dim? If not, then that is a BIG difference.

The screenshot of the M17x shows where the luminance levels are. If it was done on a dark desktop (like the pic shows) then it isn't accurate. Hopefully it was done on a bright, plain white background.

No need to get angry around here, guys. Share the love!

 

(In Mortal Kombat tone)

Round 3...

FIGHT!!

 

I'm sorry, but I just HAVE to comment lol


I just pictured Sub-Zero ripping Sonya's head off with the spine dangling..lol

I remember seeing that for the first time and was in AWE!

On topic: The M17x LCD is great.....

 

lol @ your comment scytus...

And I will add that I am also extremely happy with the hinge on the M17x, MUCH more sturdy than whitebook which flopped all over the place.

 

Viewing angles depend mainly on the quality of the panel.

Yeah, I guess all people who have had IPS displays with uneven backlight just got the same "bad panel", and the whole Sony fiasco with their HDTVs was just about the same "bad panel" and of course all of them just screwed up the test.

Btw, the T60p didn't have non-IPS/AFFS UXGA options, just so you know.

I told already told you to Google for "uneven backlight" for whatever LCD technology you want, and then if you still need to go into denial mode, there is nothing I can do about it, I'm sorry.

As I said the other site provides more precise measuremenst but are a bit more diffucult to post and I believe everyone has already seen them.

In both cases, you will notice that the illumination on the M17x is twice worse in comparisson. It's about 60% which is quite bad while the other one is over 80%.

Read my summary here.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5077772#post5077772

Look I don't mean to make the display on the M17x look bad or anything, it's just that Mandrake claims around that such poor illumination is normal and only happens to TN-based displays, which isn't true at all. And you could also check out the other reviews on both sites, which Mandrake ignores, and see that good illumination for notebook TN-based displays is about 80-90%.

Good luck to everyone.

 

what are these 80% 90% numbers....80-90% of what? You mean worst measurement is 80% of best? Because if so, then the M17x picture you put shows 80%.....

edit: ok read your linked post, if you mean 80% of what the manufacturer rated, the manufacturer numbers are complete garbage.....do you trust the MPG rating of every car you buy too? What the manufacturer says is good for them, and no one else, they don't even all rate using the same standards. What is measured is all that matters, do no compare measured to manufacturer numbers

 

Let's not forget that luminance isn't everything.

I have seen bright displays that still look like crap....

 

ugh...then you're missing my point also in my original post. Read it instead of just coming out and attacking me. My response was to Grey728 and his pic of poor viewing angles. LINK

This is very much a characteristic of TN panels as described in my links. If your argument is actually saying we are not looking at pics from different viewing angles it's just a pic of bad illumination then there is nothing left to debate.

 

Those 61% mean that there is 39% difference in brightness across the screen as showed below. It has nothing to do with the advertised brightness, which this display is probably never going to come close to, but that's not the problem, the uneven illumination is what people are complaining about.



http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Alienware-M17x-Gaming-Notebook.18781.0.html

Also, I showed before that variations of the same Samsung panel are used in a few other notebooks and the results are similar, which you could see in my summary.

Anyway, my only point here was to inform people that uneven illumination is a very common manufacturing defect for LCD displays and shouldn't be taken as a normal feature of TN-based displays at all, it's not, it's a poor backlight quality because of horrible quality control.

With that, I'm done with this thread.

 

ok, I see what you are saying now.

Still about 80% for the M17x not 60.....according to pictures supplied by you

 

The picture above for the M17x and is from a site that provides more precise measurements and tested variations of this display in a few notebooks with similar results.

 

I explained clearly that this display has an issue with uneven illumination, which is what people around here have been complaining about for weeks, moreover the pictures are from the same site that measured the illumination of the display, and links to it was posted number of times around.

He didn't ask a question about the viewing angles but about the difference in brightness, which one could hardly interpret in a different way considering the context of this thread, and that he obviously has read about the complains. Moreover, you immediately went into defense mode after my post and were more interested to talk about experience, education and whatnot rather then actually noticing what my post was about, and actually most of the posts in this thread for that matter. The links to the newbish LCD guides were especially entertaining as well, thanks.

You have been constantly telling people here that their problem is that they haven't used TN displays before, which was somehow strange to me in a notebook forum, and which now also means that you have never actually got the point of people's complains at all.

Otherwise, I'm sorry for the few slightly rude comments, but I really got the impression that I was talking to a ******* **** (mind you those are only asterisks, don't overuse your imagination) considering that the illumination issue was already beaten to death here, my last post about that was on the previous page, and you seem to be frequent in this section.


Not to mention that posting was a real pain due to database issues...

 

His question was "Some people have reported that the screen got better overtime but is this what your screen looks like? Really bright on the bottom but fades/dims the higher up the screen?"...and then showed a pic of the screen with different viewing angles. I was answering the direct question and not trying to interpret the question based on the theme of the whole thread. What he is seeing in the pic is a common trait of TN panels.

 

Do we really need to continue that?

I'm sure that your post was unbelievably useful to someone who has an Alienware notebook with a TN-based display in his signature, and who was asking questions about the illumination around.

If anything, you could at least stop assuming that people who change their gaming notebooks every year or so have never actually seen TN-based displays in their life.

 

Round...6?

 

the point still stands the M17x is brighter then that .....

The M17x has a auto dim feature ... test that on a white background and you would be light up

 

I don't mind fighting with you if that's what you're suggesting. Sport is always a good thing, isn't it?

Since I derailed the thread, even though with good intentions whether it turned out like that or not, I will get it back on the track now.

The question that Grey728 was trying to ask is whether you notice a significant difference in brightness between the bottom and the top of your displays as noted/shown in this review. You can post your impressions about that, though I wouldn't mind seeing pictures as well if that's not a big deal, your choice.

 

What? Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe

Where? Xbox Live

When? NOWW


...lets dew this

 

They should really have done there testing of the panel with a white background as anything dark gets the Auto dim effect and brings it down by a huge margin . Strange though how some people dont have that on there machine ? .

 

I'm certain we'll find a way to control the auto-dimming sometime in the future..or hopefully even learn to disable it.

 

I sadly think its built into the hardware and never will be something that can be turned on and off . Would be great but i think its unlikely since its not OS related nor is there anything in the bios mentioning it either.

 

Hardware have firmware, no? Even my television does xD

and if its completely undo-able with software, I can see a hard modding of the panel of some sort working..