M17x-R2 - Lack of Virtualization Support

I disagree, this system really is optiomal for both. It has the graphics for gamming and CPU/MEM for what I do....and its portable....what else could I want ? (OK..VT, but thats why I am posting eh )

I really did look at other systems before making this descision. I know AW has been almost solely marketed as a gammers system...but it REALLY is more than that.

Plus, the look on my interns face when I brought this thing to work was priceless

 

Hurgh, Dell is getting terrible about BIOS development. I also need virtualization for the dev work I do, and would be pissed if I was in the OP's situation.

Oh wait, I'm still pissed because my M15X throttles. I say return it and make them suffer. That lost sale just might cost one of the Dell yes-men on these forums a job.

I saw someone recommended uninstalling Dell's preloaded crap to stop the BD from revving, but this may help:

This is a Windows 7 issue, I think, and it took me a while to narrow down the problem: It's the virtual disk service loader, which loads (surprise!) the virtual disk service. For whatever reason, the service loader loads the service every 60 seconds, and it must stop almost immediately thereafter or else the service loader wouldn't load it again.

This cause me HUGE problems when I was playing blue ray DVD's because the movie would hiccup every time the service loader started. So...I went into the services console, and I disabled the Virtual Disk service. That was three weeks ago, and to date I haven't had any problems, nor has my DVD drive been spinning once a minute and annoying the hell out of me.

The virtual disk service executable is vds.exe. It is loaded by vdsldr.exe, which is causing your problem (you can check this--look at the task manager...right before your drive starts spinning, you will see vdsldr.exe pop up for a second). If you disable the virtual disk service and kill all instances of vds.exe and vdsldr.exe, you should be good to go.

Not sure why this problem arises, and I never did find anything about it on Google.

Hope that helps!

 

Wow - this thread took off again- nice! It's all good info too - hearing people on both "sides of the fence". I'm the OP and again - my angst against this whole this is I plan on double duty for the laptop. For the specs - it certainly is a gaming rig - but a "power user" slobbers over this all the same. VT support really has been out and stable in laptops for nearly 3 years - those that had C2D chips and the 64bit extensions. Had I had the sense to check before buying this - I wouldn't be in this predicament.

I can understand I guess from a development standpoint that maybe A03 is in QA and past the design/feature set phase and failed to include the VT options - and if someone can nail that down then my laptop is getting shipped back.

I've asked in the previous pages - what someone would recommend then as an alternative system? I have a lovely QCore Desktop, 8GB RAM - etc - but I can't lug it everywhere I go. I do need 64bit Guest OS Vmware support on a laptop. I've asked for opinions about the Dell Studio XPS 16 as a possible replacement - but no one has offered an opinion. It's less of a "gaming laptop" but has nearly the same specs when you "soup it up".

What about the HP Envy 15"? (can't stand external BD player though) I want to stay with either HP or Dell.

BTW - I did get my problem on the BluRay fixed - it was the Dell Datasafe backup software causing the problem (thanks to those of you that offered the help). F&Furious plays just fine now. I didn't uninstall it - just disabled it in using MSconfig and shut down the service from starting.

Yeah - @Juason - I'm not very happy. More shocked than mad - just can't believe this is where I'm at after waiting so long to get this kick-butt system.

 

Just my 2cents

I need VMs for work also (note, this isn't always a gaming box - lots of people use them for work, work = more than email and PPTs)

So if the fix is coming in an upcoming Bios update, then just run Virtual PC for the required 64bit VMs, and run VMware workstation/VirtualBox for the others

I know it isn't "clean", but honestly you aren't going to work in the VM window, most likely you're going to RDP into the VM or web in through a GUI - so who cares?

That's all i'm doing for now, and when i do presentations on a projector i always make the projector a 2nd monitor so no one can see my actual desktop anyway... then if they tick me off i change the backside alien head to RED

 

I think that it was overlooked because it was targeted towards gamers. Which is fine.

You don't see netbook manufacturers overlooking 3D high fps gaming and going "whoops!". They design the netbook for the target audience. Anything that occurs afterward is most likely due to overlap in consumer demand causing the device to do "just one more thing". I would love to see several other additions to the Alienware M17x R2 that would be just as simple as enabling VM support, but it wasn't the main reason the product was made.

 

Point is, CPU and chipsets support it, bios should have supported it too from the beginning like the R1 did. Nobody thinks to confirm those things before buying because for me at least it was natural that I'll have that support since the hardware supports it.

 

I hope an A03 bios comes soon with Virtualization support as well as support for 5870's.

 

Sleey0 mentioned the Dell M6500 workstation laptop. Man, if I had seen that when working with the Dell guy on my replacement, I would have been all over it like white on rice. I use my M17x for video editing, multimedia editing, lots of other render work and an occasional game. The M6500 has an option of 3 drives, depending on the RAID setup. Oh man, wouldn't that be nice?! Oh well I guess, I hope Dell gets their act together and does right by us, we who pay their bills...

 

As an alternative, the Dell i7 Studio 17 (1747) supports hardware virtualization. I ran the MS HAV detection tool on my wife's machine (BIOS A05) and it says it's good to go. At ~$1100 (EPP), it might be a good cheaper alternative until the BIOS update for R2 comes out. The biggest bummer (besides not being an AW) is that the 1920x1080 screen doesn't currently show as an option (only 900p)

The 1747 has a 1GB Radeon 4650 and a fair number of the same options you can get on the M17x (just in a much less compelling package).

 

Thanks for the response. I looked at the Studio 17 and the Studio Touch 17. Odd that in a 17.3" screen that 1600x900 is the only option. That is plenty big to run 1080 or 1200 on the vertical. Dual drives is nice and the price is pretty decent. How is it for finger prints? I'm not a fan of the Studio XPS 16 black piano finish that is so hyper glossy and shows prints & smears everywhere.

Is there an available option for a higher resolution screen on the Studio 17? What about the Studio Touch? Anyone know much about that system with the touch screen?

thx

 

There were 3 screen options back in Nov when we bought my wife's machine--the 1600x900, a 1920x1080 WLED and a 1920x1080 B+RG LED (yes you're reading that right) which is similar to the RGBLED on the R2. They didn't offer multitouch screens at the time, so I think they dumbed down the resolution options for touchscreen (or they would have had to have 6 different display options). Might be worth talking to a rep--maybe they have a hidden option for a higher res screen in the ordering system. If you get a finish other than the black chain link, the shell is matte, though the area around the keyboard should still be glossy. The chain link has a subtle bicycle chain pattern on both the shell and the silver keyboard area, and the black part is a fingerprint magnet, but the silver part that you see is better.

Oh, and the backlit keyboard is worth the 25 bucks!

 

I was using this new laptop last night going back and forth on Dell's site using EPP pages for discounts on various configs and the dead ends I run into just drive me crazy. One minute I can get a Studio XPS 16 with what I think could be a replacement - and then I can't select BluRay reader in the options - all it shows is DVDRW/CD - nothing else. Then I go another route on a different machine and end up chasing my tail all night.

What I seem to keep coming back to though - is nothing is a match for what I have. I just need the BIOS updated and things would be what I had hoped for. I've got the CPU, the RAM, the HDD config, RGBLED screen - everything I wanted - just not full VT support (BTW, I did try Virtualbox - still can't use anything 64bit and I can't assign more than 1 CPU and still start the VM).

I wouldn't mind dropping a few pounds off of this monster and going down to the M15x @ 8 pounds versus the 11.5 pounds of this 17" system....but then I lose the RGBLED screen. That doesn't appear to be an option on the M15x - or does someone know how to get it? Is there some obscure link to get to Dell's site for an EPP M15x that has the 1920x1080 RGBLED screen? I'd love it if someone could find one. Are there any reviews or side by side comparisons that anyone has done to show off the RGBLED screen and why it's so much better? Anything technical? Siting next to my work HP Compaq nc8430 - there is certainly a huge difference in screen quality - but all I've heard people say is wow - the RGB screen rocks! But is it just because it's brighter? better color gamut? What ratings or measurements are out there to read over the specs as to why it's better? Those are hard to find.

I will use this machine for a lot of photo editing and printing. I have the full Adobe CS4 Web Premium suite installed along with Lightroom and do a lot of outdoor photography and portrait work for local high school kids. From a photography perspective I can understand better color space with the RGBLED Screen and better contrast - I just haven't been able to find anything on this screen for the M17x-R2.

thx

 

No, you cannot just magically build your own M15x with RGBLED.

Would be nice if you could, though

FWIW, the WLED in the M15x is a very good screen.

 

So why do I get the feeling that this is totally off Dell's radar..no updates...nothing.........

 

My 21 day return policy period is up tomorrow. BIOS A02 is still the only one available. I haven't gotten any updates from anyone else via PM or any other method of any pending updates to the BIOS. Guess I get to spend my time on the phone with Dell now getting my system returned w/o their restocking fee. I'm pretty sure that it will get a fix - just don't want to wait indefinitely and things are at a crawl right now.

I just wish somehow my RMA would make a difference and they'd see why it was such a big issue with some of us - but I'm sure the rep I'll work with will only marginally understand and that's as far as it will go.

Looking for an M15x as my replacement - giving up the RGBLED, RAID 0. I'll still go for the i7 720QM 1.6Ghz/2.8Ghz Turbo, 8GB RAM, 500GB 7200 rpm drive, 1GB nVidia graphics, 1920x1080 - but it won't be the same machine - bummer.

 

There is a patch for Windows 7 Virtual PC that disables the requirement for Hardware Virtualization support.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=977206

 

it was mentioned on the second page of this thread but that is a very very partial solution. I work with VMware and i want to keep working with it and x64 guests.

 

Thanks mfractal - that's exactly what i was going to post. We've gone down that road already. In fact that's the first thing that tech support told me to do and they just didn't get what the difference was. May be to the casual person that uses VM off and on - that seems to do what they need - but when you look under the hood and run VMware workstation to use it's full potential then you're quickly cut short.

 

@mfractal - how are you liking your laptop now with the x25-m 160gb SSD drive? is it bang-on fast now? lightning quick? how are your boot times and program loads? That's one of the reasons I love the dual drives is that I can eventually afford a smaller SSD drive for booting (something smaller than 500GB) and then use my 2nd 500GB drive as storage.

Have you run any benchmarks to see the before and after?

 

Hey, check out the ssd thread in my sig.. There are benchmarks before and after

 

Spent about an hour on the phone by calling various #'s @ Dell to get some info on lining up an RMA for my machine. Day #21 is tomorrow. Got disconnected a handful of times and kept calling back. Finally I got to where someone in customer service/customer care said they could line me up with an extended return period to see if they get it fixed - got transferred and the recording told me that dept was now closed and to call back tmrw. Sheesh.

Guess I still have 1 day left to get it lined up. But I actually really like the idea of holding on to the system a little longer to see if they can get the new BIOS fixes done and released. I did start with Tech Support first and he got on with a level II guy that said the fix was coming soon - but nothing specific as to what that means.

Has anyone lined that up with Dell before - extended return period? Am I looking at getting another week? two weeks? I'd love something like 60 days - but may be that's going a bit too far.

 

I have never heard of that.. I hope they werent feeding you a line of bull just so you are outside of the return window and stuck with the system..

 

I have not personally dealt with this, but I believe someone in the XPS forum had a similar agreement over the CPU throttling and BIOS update / PSU upgrade issue.

 

Well all i can say, is have the rep email you the extension in writing.. That will be easier to leverage than verbal he said she said and having to fight them... Thats all I can say knowing the track record with customer service reps..

 

^^ Completely agreed. you don't have anything if you don't have it in writing.

 

Exactly, its basically pointless......especially for those of us who run a *NIX in VMware

 

You realise that anything a rep says, or emails for that matter, technically, has no bearing on dell policy. Those phone monkies have no policy makeing power.....

If you want a extension, get it in writing from a manager or higher.

 

Yep. my point was to get it in writing.. Verbal means nothing..

 

NP...on aneother note, youre better off calling AW direct, you will get someone who can do something besides read from a script....

 

I reccomend calling AW direct.....Dell customer support is...well....uh anyway...call AW

 

I'm just wondering, but it seems like some of the newer machines have VT-x support. Now I know it's not the VT-d you guys were looking for, but if I'm not mistaken VT-d isn't needed to support x64 OSs, just direct hardware access and a few other niceties. Mine and a few other CPUID sheets list support for VT-x, is it possible there is a partial Bios update that new machines have to enable this by default? I don't have an option to change it in my bios, but CPU-z definitely says I have VT-x support.

 

CPU-Z reports the capabilities of the CPU, to be able to use that feature you need bios that supports sending enable/disable instruction to the CPU.

 

It says the CPU supports it, as it does in mine, but the BIOS doesnt allow it to be used. Its not a COU issue, its Dell/AW's BIOS

 

So - I got a hold of Customer care through the Alienware phone #....it goes to Dell anyway...866-287-6727. Turns out that whomever I was talking with last night just before they closed down customer care was just blowing air up my skirt. They don't technically have an "extended return period". But I learned a few things worth sharing.

They have a 30 day return policy for Dell branded equipment. I thought it was 21 days. The timer starts the day they SHIP it - not the day you receive it. So - I have until April 30th to return this unit. Since it is due to technical problems - they will issue me a full refund w/o a restocking fee. If it was something cosmetic then there is a 15% restocking fee.

The Rep did say that in some cases - when a person's account shows they've been working with tech support to get an issue resolved and it goes beyond 30 days and finally the customer wants a full credit return - they have to submit a request to the financial side for approval. It isn't guaranteed that you'll get a refund at that point. (that's not an extended return policy in my mind - it's a bit of a gamble).

So - my next move is to probably order an M15x laptop. Can anyone reconfirm with me that the BIOS problems don't exist in that platform? Full VT support? I can enable/disable Intel Trusted Platform? I can enable Virtualization support within the BIOS on the M15x?

I just have enough room on my DPA to place a 2nd order with EPP for what I want in a 15" and then send back my 17". I got a great deal on the 17" and want to make sure they give me some of the same discounts.

BTW - does anyone know if the 9-cell battery for the m17x-R2 is compatible with the m15x? I bought a 2nd battery for my 17" and would just assume keep it if it's compatible with the 15". I've gotten around 1hr 45min of batt life on my 9cell on my 17" - not totally turning down everything and limiting functions - but probably 65% of what I run when on full AC. Does the 15" have any better battery life on a 9-cell? Is anyone getting more than 2 hours? 1 less HDD, smaller screen, etc should translate into a bit better batt life IMO.

Thanks for the help - decision time is coming - what I want is to sit a 15" next to this 17" and really compare them before deciding which one to keep. Oh were I that lucky. *sigh* not looking forward to another 4+ week wait time for another laptop. sheesh.

 

It's not the lack of vt-x or vt-d support--VMWare and VirtualBox won't allow you to run 64-bit guests without TXT (trusted execution technology) disabled, which is currently not implemented in BIOS.

If they implement it like other Dell products, it'll be a single BIOS option ("Virtualization" disable/enable) that sets all the required features at once.

 

Not to be in it but you shouldv'e went with the Dell Precision M6500 with USB 3.0, that's more a horsepower machine than the M17x R2, since your not gaming with it?

 

USB 3.0 would be nice - surprised it's so limited. Article on extremetech.com the other day talked about possibility of Intel trying to hold it back - not sure I agree with the angle

Dell Precision M6500 - holy smokes! I thought alienware cost a bill or two....dang - a similar spec'd 17" M6500 is nearly $1,400 more than what I paid for my M17x-R2! That is unreal. It does have a ton of horsepower options that I've never seen. It does have the 17" RGBLED 1920x1080 screen - and the possibility of 3 drives - but @ $1400 more than what I've paid for my alienware - there must be richer people than me. May be one thing if there was a company paying for this - but this is outta my pocket.

Thanks for the recommendation - someone else talked about it - but I never checked it out. Makes the M17x-R2 look cheap.

Thanks,

 

The option for VT will be added in a later bios. No, they will not say when.

 

very informative, thank you.

 

Well folks - at least those of you interested - the 17" is going back. Completed getting the RMA done tonight - no restocking fee. I'm dropping it off @ UPS tmrw in the morning.

Now what? Who can talk about the m15x? Can anyone verify that the core i7 m15x has the full VT support? Can I disable the Trusted execution environment? If anyone has an m15x in the forum that cares to comment on their vmware experience with working with 64bit guests as well as providing multiple CPU's to the guest - I'd love to hear some positive (or negative I guess before I order) references.

thx

 

In addition to VT, I hope they don't forget to add multiplier over clocking to the bios for the Extreme Intel 920XM's people are paying over a thousand dollars for. There is a reason these CPU's come with unlocked multipliers, it's so people can use them.

 

Just placed a new order this afternoon for an M15x. I did notice that the m17x are now shipping with ATI Radeon HD5870. The only choices on the M15x is the nVidia 240 512MB or 1GB 260M chip - which is what I ordered.

Here are the details:
Cosmic Black
i7 720QM - 1.6Ghz
8GB RAM - 1333Mhz
nVidia 260M - 1GB Video
500GB 7200rpm SATA drive
1920x1080p Screen
BluRay Reader
1 year basic warranty (changed this down from the 3 year complete care I had on my m17x)
Intel WiFi 5300
9-cell primary batt
2nd 9-cell primary batt

 

So it looks like the NEW BIOS people are getting on their new orders now STILL doesnt have the Virt option......

Nice one dell

 

I have gone in and checked with support.dell.com on the 15" Alienware and they fixed that in the BIOS for that machine in February 2010 (read over the release notes on the various BIOS updates). I'm getting the exact SAME CPU setup that I had with my 17" and they couldn't get it to work yet with the BIOS - but they can make it work with the 15" series. Makes you wonder what else isn't right with the BIOS...sounds like may be they shouldn't have released it as a product at all if it wasn't quite ready.

Guess it's time to change my signature. No longer a 17" owner.... :-(

 

Not too sure how new of a bios has been shipped yet as in previous posts, but, my new machine that I received TODAY with a i7-920XM (M17xR2) includes BIOS A04.. Latest on the website is A02.. Not sure whats been added or changed, but, this is a system swap as old system wouldn't boot correctly with BIOS A02. (Received that machine end of March).. So, apparently, since March 28th to May 6th, my new system has a bios thats 2 revisions newer..

 

Have you poked around in the BIOS to see if it references any option to turn off Intel Trusted Execution Platform? Does it have a yes/no option for enabling Hardware Virtualization support? If it has both of those features then A04 has all the fixes I was waiting for before I returned my 17" and ordered the 15". Rumor had that A03 wouldn't have the fix and that it wouldn't be out until A04 - but with an unknown/unpublished release cycle- I figured I could have been waiting as along as the middle to end of summer before the fix was out. If your new shipment has it all fixed then congrats! I'm sure that others will be wanting A04 ASAP.

 

My brand new R2 came with A02. Delivered last monday... I too am wondering about Virtualization support as I will mainly use the M17x for development work. Hardly any time for games...

Edit: I'm wondering if A04 is only adding support for the 5870.

 

Sadly, no.. Those options are NOT added. Infact, looking at A02 and A04, NO new options are found in the bios..

 

Well, that's really too bad. It's unfortunate that Dell can't get that fixed already. I did a lot of research today and canceled my order for my 15" - supposed to ship next week. I had the 10% EPP discount - but nothing special. I watched several reviews and read as many sites as I could on the newly announced HP Envy 17". I really liked a lot about the Envy 15" - but it had external optical drive.

Now with the new HP Envy 14 and 17 announcement this week - both have internal slot load optical drives - going for BluRay in the 17". The 17" is available in a few weeks - May 19th for order, longer for the 14". Typical price for Core i5 is $1399 they said. Can't configure one yet to know for sure how much with it fully loaded - but it's the one I'm focusing in on now. Just not going to play with Alienware anymore. I was super impressed by the m17x-R2 - but for long term use and for multiple applications - including lots of VMware - I'm putting my money down on an HP Envy 17" when it's available for order.

Some quick items that draw my attention:
4lbs lighter than Alienware 17"
same weight as alienware 15" but with a 17.3" screen ~7.5lbs
1.6" thick closed at the back
dual drive capable - I missed that in stepping down from the 17" to 15" alienware
1x USB 3.0
can run an extra 93Whr battery slice that fits the entire base to combine with existing battery for way longer batt life when needed
subwoofer - can't believe alienware doesn't have a sub (DDigital 5.1 out - I know - but sub is nice)
The one link below shows it running ATI Eyefinity with 3 external 1080p monitors (showed playing Dirt 2 - doubt I'll ever do something like that - but sure looked great!)

Some may say that I may run into the same problems or similar problems with a newly minted platform from HP. And they would be right - new items tend to be a bit buggy - but I like the form factor better, lighter weight, smaller package and just dang powerful. The gamers might still see the advantage of the dual crossfire in the 17" alienware - but I'm more focused on horsepower and throughput and doing great at multi-tasking no matter what I'm doing. I sold my XPS m1530 in February - I can wait a few more weeks for the HP Envy 17".


Here is the best site for specs:
http://www.notebooks.com/2010/05/04/hp-envy-17

Then I watched the video review on slashgear
HP ENVY 14 and ENVY 17 hands-on [Video] - SlashGear

 

Hi folks - here I am, another one who paid $$$$ for his brand new M17x-R2. I never play any game - sorry. I bought the M17x-R2 because of its horsepower - just to find out, that the VT-x checkbox is nowhere to find in the BIOS A02.

I neeed that VT-x feature.

As a trainer an consultant I am "on the road" somewhere in Europe for up to 20 weeks every year - stranding in some hotels. The ideas was, to carry a powerful portable "server" with me that can run a lot of x64-virtual OSs, like:

1- VMware-WS with running vSphere inside.
2- WinSrv2008R2 (already on partition-3) with Hyper-V and hosting up to 4-6 Hyper-V virtual machines (DC, Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, IIS, TMG,... all x64 stuff)
3- VMware-WS or Hyper-V and runing NetApp Ontap Rel. 8.0 Simulator (SAN solution based on x64 FreeBSD)

See... I definitly need that VT-x feature. No doubt!
Please you people from DELL / nagshead / Alienware, go on and add the VT-x feature to the next BIOS. I am waiting for it every day.

______________________
Alienware M17x-R2 -Intel Core i7-820QM
8GB RAM DDR3 / PC3-10700 (667 MHz)
HDD: 2x 620 GB in RAID-0 7200rpm
Bios: A2 Feb11-2010 (no Virtualization => No Hyper-V)
Chipset: Intel DMI Host Bridge Rev.11
Southbridge: P55
Video: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4870 1GB
Screen: 1920x1200 RGBLED
OS-1: Part-1: Win7 x64, Part-2: Data
OS-2: Part-3: WinSrv2008R2 (Hyper-V VMs = nogo!)
No running 64-bit Guest OS's within VMware workstation 7
I bought this $$$$ laptop for its horsepower not for gaming