M17xR2 Bios A08 Discussion Thread

For non-extreme users that never plan on upgrading their CPU, it's fine. For those of us with extreme CPU's, this bios a08 is garbage.

 

well, not necessarily "never plan to upgrade". If we do upgrade,

1) hopefully we will have a >A08 bios which reverts this non sense change
2) or will just have to go back to A07

 

Not to go OT but I noticed your sig and the 900p display. I saw one today at Fry's Electronics and it was terrible. So very dim, it looked worse than the Asus value laptops that had WLEDs. Dell should be ashamed of themselves for selling such a subpar display in a high end notebook like this. But I guess their goal with this new bios + mass marketing push is to turn these Alienwares into their run of the mill Dells.

 

Thanks for the info.... i have never seen and RGB yet! maybe it's better that way LOL!

Can't wait to get my hand on one though!

 

yep, based on what Joker wrote, it would be a bad idea to upgrade. I never had problems with my touchpad...

 

for anybody that wants to rollback to A07 here are the files.
R276847.7z

 

Never had problems with my touchpad but getting tired of these beta video drivers instead of not being able to use regular ati drivers cause of the bios

 

ha, I am still on A06.


But isn't it the vbios that keeps us from using ATI reference drivers?!?

 

Actually, its two things.

The dell SYSTEM bios wont let the M17x R2 boot unless it has one of a SPECIFIC set of cards in it.
I think its 2 or 3 different kind of cards.

The way the dell SYSTEM bios indentifies what card is in there is by looking at the hardware ID of the VIDEO bios.

To use the stock ATI drivers you ned a VIDEO bios with a hardware ID that is recognised by the drivers (we dont have a recognised hardware ID).

Normally, what one would do is use RBE to change the VIDEO bios Hardware ID so that ATI drivers work fine.

Problem is, dell prevents the notebook from booting if it detects non-dell hardware ID graphics cards. It artificially bricks the system out of spite.

How dare we decide to use non-dell hardware?!?!?

So, we are screwed both ways.

We can flash the Hardware ID to use ATI drivers, but the system bios wont post.
Or we can rely on Dell to provide drivers (bad) but have a booting system.

I was gaining confidence in dell support, but throttling a machine that didnt need it is frankly stupid and shows massive incompetence somewhere in the management or engineering chain of command.

No, im not trying to insult anyone here - its a fact.

You can have a booting system, OR you can have an ATI recognised hardware ID.
You can have a working touch pad, OR your CPU can run at full speed.
You can run your system at 100% of its capabilities, OR you can have dell warranty (furmark).
You can play your games OR you can use your expensive external monitor.

Is this a late april fools joke or something? Whats going on?

Brian please comment in this thread to reassure us something is being done.

What the hell is the engineering team thinking? Is there someone in management we can all petition via email to get this 'engineering' team sorted out?

If my new graphics cards dont fix my dual display issue, I am going for a refund.

Please, tell us whats going on?

-Ash

 

Can't the ATI drivers be modded to include the Dell video hardware ID's, thereby allowing the drivers to install?

 

Hey, thanks for the info, Downloaded A08, read UncleWebb and 5150Joker's posts and deleted it ASAP. All you extreme CPU users 920xm mainly, since some have the 940xm now, what are your temps at Idle & Load?
Asked this question on another thread and searched on Google but no straightforward answer as of yet.
And shame on Dell management for that kind of decision, implementing a "my way or the highway" policy rarely sells. Pretty sure techs don't have their say in this.

Mike.

 

Thx UncleWebb for the detailed info.
The whole reason for my purchase it to afford a laptop that could handle Autodesk's suite of software without going the professional route. Yes I do play games, and could still potentially enjoy them, but this latest revision is an insult.
I agree with Ash:
"You can have a booting system, OR you can have an ATI recognised hardware ID.
You can have a working touch pad, OR your CPU can run at full speed.
You can run your system at 100% of its capabilities, OR you can have dell warranty (furmark).
You can play your games OR you can use your expensive external monitor."
It's these kind of limitations that drives those of us with knowledge into the arms of another vendor.
Maybe I should have saved up a couple more grand to get a workstation. I just couldn't justify the cost at this point.
I stuck with A07 as soon as I read that it was changing Turbo. I don't use the touchpad and probably never will.
This does not bode well for the future.

**Edit** I too agree with Joker's sentiment.

It's just hard to come to terms with a second major disappointment. I tried to +rep him for that particular post but unfortunately I haven't spread enough 'love' around to do so.

 

it means people who bought their $1000 cpu from dell or $500 processor from ebay are no better than the guy with a $200 8X0QM now. There's absolutely no reason to buy a Extreme Edition processor in a M17X with an A08 Bios essentially. Utterly redicilous. The only reason you would pick an Extreme edition now is for an unlocked multiplyer to overclock it. Who in their right mind would buy a $5000 laptop *just* to overclock it though?

I'm going to have to agree, I haven't had a working computer for 2 months, and between the fumbling to bandaid problems, sending out incorrectly manufactured cards and now doing away with the only reason I had left to keep it, I can't say I'll be looking twoard Dell to satasify my DTR needs in the future.

 

well, for my desktop needs,I've always built my own. No altered graphic card vbios, no BIOS locking up my CPUs.

Don't know what I'll do for future high-end laptops though, if Dell destroys the AW brand...

 

The Mouse Polling Rate is actually fixed no more laggy mouse anymore

 

so I've read almost all post on this thread... I've got a M17xR2 Intel i7 820QM (stock, no OC'ing), CrossfireX 1GB ATI 5870 (driver 8.692.2, stock), BIOS A06 (i think, stock), I haven't updated anything beyond what Windows Update tells me.

...is there any reason I should try this update? will it decrease my computer's performance? will it make it useless?

I do use the touchpad, but if there's a risk in breaking the system I would rather stick with a crappy touchpad then one that doesn't work at all.

 

I think unless if you have extreme cpu or plan to get it, it's okay to update it, especially if you use the touch pad often.

Hope the AW guy in this forum reads this and fixes the crippled CPU performance for extreme cpu users though. There should be absolutely no reason why dell should cripple it especially paid so much for extreme cpu's.

 

Someone should make a video on youtube, with all the keywords you can think of. Has anyone tried to inform engadget or something?

 

I hate to say too much or else someone at Dell might come up with a new idea to reduce performance.

With bios A07, you only needed to set the turbo multiplier register and turbo TDP/TDC setting once and the bios would not screw with either of them after that so you didn't even need to leave ThrottleStop running once it had adjusted those. Bios A08 is probably the same.

If you need the trackpad fix then you are forced to go with A08 and then run ThrottleStop to get your turbo multipliers back up to what they used to be.

With A08 it is easy enough to test what Dell is up to. Boot up and run wPrime and see what sort of multipliers you get. Monitor with i7 Turbo.

i7 Turbo GT 1.1
Turbo.zip

Next start up ThrottleStop and if you have a 920XM, right click on ThrottleStop and set your turbo multipliers to 24 across the board like they used to be. With the 940XM you would set all of these to 25. Run wPrime again and see what multiplier you are getting now. You can then exit ThrottleStop and see if the changes it made stick. They used to.

If the turbo multiplier stays set after ThrottleStop exits then you don't need to keep ThrottleStop running. I'm just considering writing a very simplified version of ThrottleStop without any GUI or features that would quietly set the turbo multipliers back to what they used to be set to with bios A07 so you can upgrade your bios if you need to without having your Extreme CPU left limping. A decent bios lets you adjust these turbo multipliers like desktop motherboards let you do. Good luck waiting for Dell to come up with an idea like that.

 

with a i7 720 after the BIOS update, is there any need to do anything? Did this update effect the numbers on non X cpu's?

 

Well after doing some more reading and my own testing I decided having a slightly better, I say slightly because to get the 80Hz+ you see on most other notebooks you have to remove the synaptics drivers, was not worth the huge performance drop on my extreme i7 core. I'm a game artist, I bought an M17x because of the power it offered and when a new BIOS cuts that performance down by almost 30% it really hinders the speed of my rendering apps and won't be tolerated. This is complete BS honestly.

I would like to see a BIOS that fixes the trachpad and puts it up to a 80HZ+ rate with the synaptics drivers, maybe those just need tweaked now, and does not limit the multipliers on my extreme proc down to 17. I paid for that extreme so it better perform at its max. Getting jerked around through these games has made me totally regret buying this system. We pay the premium price of the Alienware systems because of how they are meant to perform, hindering them to anything below what they are fully capable of is just a slap in the face.

First time buying Alienware, probably my last. Same goes for ATI, these 5870s have been very weak imo and I knew there was a reason all I ever bought were nVidia cards in the past.

 

I bought an M17X R2 with the 920xm solely because I saw it was running 24x even at all 4 cores. I'm very very disappointed in this BIOS. I have to hope that once the US holiday weekend is over, someone from Dell will see this and respond. I hope it was an oversight and will be quickly fixed in an A09 bios.

N

 

When you open up phenoix, or something, there is a way to check a box to be able to flash to a BIOS, even if it's older. I can't remember where it is, but I had to do it to the M11x.

Glad I was too lazy to "down grade" my BIOS.

Dell... Lazy people.

 

Here is a link to how to recovery a Phoenix bios: How to Recover Phoenix BIOS | eHow.com

Hope this helps.

 

the m5870's are pretty powerful gpus, sadly just not realized through dell. brilliant marketing scheme on their part; offer the best hardware out on the market only to hold it back with software issues, nice. got me and countless others good, had i known i probably would've taken my 4500$ elsewhere but who knows maybe in a year or two when the world starts seeing the next in bleeding edge hardware dell will let us use our r2s properly.

shame, i had such a nice relationship with dell before i bought my r2 and now its all to sh_t (haha really?), definitely the last.

 

You won't need to worry about doing anything. So far it seems they have only hindered the extreme cores.


They better plan on righting this "fix". Because I'm sure that is what this was targeted as, a fix for those who complained about heat or something. Well honestly I think the thing cools itself just fine. My room runs about 85*F during the summer on average and I've never had any heat issues. Rather then hinder the cores performance to try to regulate heat better, they should tell those people to go buy a cooler or something. Not screw the rest of us over who have no problems.

Yes I'm totally irked about this. Spend all that money for a computer I thought could handle my rendering programs perfectly and then some... just to get slapped in the face and have its performance axed. Not cool. Bad enough I already had to have my R1 replaced with this R2, and frankly I loved my SLI 280s and 9400 graphics option. One disappointment after another no matter what revision. These would be awesome systems if they would let it run full-bore and not hinder things.

/ends rant, I need a drink *cheers*

 

hmm, brilliant
was beta testing their bios and seemed fantastic (touchpad wise)




this has to be a mistake on their side , surely this can't be intentional ><

 

I'd sure like to find an 8x0QM for $200! I'm seeing about 2-3x that price on ebay, etc.

 

Still on A05 here. Each bios after A05 has been crap and the video drivers are crap. What else can they crap up? lol.

 

So ever since I installed A08 I've been hearing a high pitch sound from my speakers. Both the laptop ones, or my external ones if they were connected. My remedy was to turn the system volume relatively low and turn my externals all the way up and the sound would go away, didn't have one for when my externals were not connected so I just used my Megalodons for everything. I didn't really think much more about it. But upon reverting back to A07 the noise is gone. Does not matter what my system or external volume is set to, doesn't matter if the externals are connected or not, the high pitch sound is just gone.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed this with A08 but seems like it was a side effect to me. Not sure what would cause it but I am glad it is gone. Or maybe this is a different issue altogether with the R2s, or maybe just mine, that someone might be able to inform me of. Either way I am happy it is gone and it seemed to be related to A08 to me. Maybe if I get some time I'll flash back to A08 and test, but won't be home tomorrow and I'm not doing it tonight.

 

I am in the same boat Rockwell. I use my M17X R2 for rendering. Maya, 3DS studio max, etc. I bought it to try to avoid the cost of a workstation until I secure real employment and not just part time teaching and attendance at a local college.
I thought the limitations of software issues would be rectified in the future with driver revisions. I assumed the trend would be to improve performance as the laptop ages in order to extend its lifespan. Instead Dell is moving in the opposite direction and narrowing the options, stifling its capabilities/performance.
I really considered another brand after my last AW died and I finally got a refund, but AW still had the best options for what I needed in a portable DTR.
If this move is any indication of the future then I will take my business elsewhere.

 

Since I have a i7 720 on my m17x R2, I decided to go ahead and flash my BIOS.

It did fix the touchpad (finally!) and my CPU speed remains the same. I guess those of us with CPUs lower than the 920 lucked out our multipliers didn't get changed (for whatever reason the change was made in the first place), as well.

 

I certainly will not be updating past A07 until they revert that silly change to the multipliers. I would like to have a functional touchpad and eventually a resolution to the SSD performance cap issue, so I have my fingers crossed that A09 or later will fix the SSD issue, undo the multiplier neutering from A08, and retain the touchpad polling fix from A08.

 

I doubt it is an oversight. Isn't it the first "fix" listed in the release notes?

As such, there must be a reason they decided to do that. Could it be that by running all 4 cores at the max multiplier was causing the power issues that those with Extreme processors were experiencing? (issues where the M17xR2 would just turn off at or after boot).

Running all the cores at max multiplier when in Turbo mode is unconventional, isn't it? Isn't it normal just to implement turbo on one or two cores only when it's able to keep certain power thresholds at certain levels? Running all 4 cores at max multiplier probably draws too much power. To be honest, I didn't even know that turbo operation was implemented by the BIOS! I thought it was an activity from within the CPU!

I doubt Dell will reverse it, since it wasn't an "error" that it was implemented. With A08, aren't systems now running like Intel had intended them to? Before...well that was just a treat.

But, since the BIOS can control that, can't someone write a program to do the same? Should be a way to implement the 4 core max multiplier through software...

 

Not sure what issue that "fix" would of addressed since the absolute only problems with my R2 was crappy touchpad that is under 80Hz with drivers and CrossFire5870s that are hindered by their doing and need to be bumped up to where they should be performance-wise. No clue what this power issue is nor have I ever experienced it or any other problems with my R2.

They either better revert back to the old multipliers or just stop trying because those of us with the extremes are sticking with A07 or older and probably never buying AW/Dell again with all the "1 step forward, 2 steps back" stuff with these systems.

 

There was a discussion a month ago about extreme-based M17x's where upon boot, the units would just shut off, if on battery. I had TWO m17xR2's with extreme 920's that did this. Half the time, they would not boot on battery. Now, granted, it seems most M17x users are always "connected" to juice, and therefore don't see this problem. But, if you tried it, and had Crossfire, you'd see it (not all the time, but often enough to be unacceptable).

Obviously a power issue. It makes sense that the M17xR2 is sucking too much juice on battery and is shutting off. It could be that at the moment the "Starting Windows" appears, the CPU has all the cores in TURBO, thus drawing max power, and causing system shutoff.

It could be that this BIOS fixes that by implementing the "proper" turbo configuration. Is it possible that the previous BIOS'es were, in fact, erroneous in implementing all 4 cores at max multiplier?

 

the battery is 11.1V and the PSU is 19.2V so it's very likely a power issue, I would imagine it's the second GPU switching on with the battery more than it's the 920 processor though.

 

Except, according to the discussions, only those with Extreme CPU's had the shutoff at startup. None of the non-Extreme CPU M17xR2's that I've worked with, even those with Crossfire, had that problem.

So...maybe it is CPU related, and the reason for the BIOS change.

 

At the risk of going OT, as a new M17x R2 owner, what needs to be done to bump them up?

N

 

I have to agree with lancorp on this.

I can see everyone's frustraition. I too would be upset to upgrade my BIOS to find out I now have a enthusiest machine with up to 30% less performance.

However, if Intel never intended turbo boost to be used in such a way we can't really blame Alienware for correcting this. For all we know it might solve a number of issues that some people were having. You can't really knock them regardless of how much it sucks.

I am very thankful that community exists to explain these changes. Those of us who want to keep the previous BIOS can now do so and not blindly upgrade thinking it will be for the better.

I anxiously wait to see what our Alienware community contact has to say about all of this.

 

This,specifically is why i never flash a bios Until there are many,many opinions on its use. it would be nice to see what the Dell rep that posts here has to say as to why they felt the need to cripple systems, basically rendering them (systems with xm cpus) useless. glad i have a budget set up, now im beginning to worry that my 640m isn't going to work when it gets here.....

 

You have nothing to worry about, flashing your BOIS is not as scary as people think, and you can revert back if needed. With a 640m, there is zero change to the CPU with this BOIS. My system is running Awesome with the new BOIS, VBOIS, and the Dell Beta Video Driver. I know the XM processors have some issues, I think it's more the point of why Dell would do that to the CPU's than real world issues. Anyways, read all the posts, you will see this system is really a great one, we just like to keep Dell in check

 

So, is it confirmed that the ThrottleStop turbo workaround will work if you have an extreme cpu and upgrade to A08?

 

Do you have a link to this thread?

 

Just caught sight of this thread.....sory for the late contribution.

What an absolute crock of useless garbage this new bios is....i mean, sure it fixes a dodgy mouse pad (which shouldnt have been dodgy in the first place) but to those owners who hhave an extreme cpu (not me atm), its an abomination.

If i had an XM, i would be absolutely fuming at Dell for this LATEST blunder. Given that the cpu is the very best and Dell has already taken their cash, to do this to them is unforgivable.

Im hoping its just a mistake for you guys and that someone somewhere gets their finger out of their behind and actually does something remotely constituting constructive.

What a LOAD OF cack dell...............

 

@ Mkelliny
Link was provided a page back, but here it is again.

@lancorp
Is my R2 an oddball then? I've never had this issue. In fact I am sitting here right now on about 40% battery, was able to shut it down and start it back up just fine like 5 times in a row with my battery reading 31% the final time I turned it on. And as you can see my system isn't no entry level either, its basically fully maxed. Once again, this "fix" in A08 is just a slap to us extreme core owners faces as the assumed problem it was meant to fix does not seem to be experienced by all extreme owners. I'd rather keep my higher performance without having to use a program such as TS to band-aid fix things that did not need to be messed with.

 

Oh, Don't know how I missed it. Thank you though for reposting it.

 

Well said, I totally agree.
Especially the part with blaming Dellienware.
Our systems are out for almost a year and the Throttlestop OC'ing was only recently implemented. Before then, we were happy with a 5% BIOS OC. If people think that they can blame Dell for not allowing the extreme CPU to be hitting 100W - good luck. I don't think there's any justification in demanding so, just because someone discovered a way (a couple of months ago) to turn the mobile processor into a desktop one. Remember, Dell never promised such a level of OC'ing to be available, so if their BIOS ruins the full potential of the XM processors when using a third party software - it's not their fault.
I understand the frustration, especially for the benchers, but c'mon, let's see the bigger picture. Things were fixed - the touchpad and CF are working fine now. Was it worth it? Up to you. Not satisfied - go back to A07 and wait for the next update, or leave the mothership.

And forgive my harsh words but -
If after all that Dell did to please you with their open-minded approach, listening to your requests, letting you replace CPU's/GPU's and mess with cooling without voiding the warranty, providing you with beta BIOS/Vbios versions and test machines, offering replacements, being present here 24/7 etc,
if after all that you just turn your back ready to leave the ship spitting curse words at those who helped you -
You don't deserve to be on-board!

 

I totally Agree

 

You completely missed the point of this thread. Nobody is complaining about 100W TDP changes, where did you even arrive at that conclusion from?

Let me break it down for you and others so they can understand the issue more clearly:

Pre-A08: The bios allowed the multipliers to scale anywhere from 18-24/25x across the board on all 4 cores depending on the load + CPU temperature. This had NOTHING to do with ThrottleStop, it was something Dell built into their system bios which gave the R2 an edge over competing machines that followed Intel default specifications.

A08: The bios now resets the extreme CPU's back to default multipliers which effectively costs up to 30% in performance. Again, this has nothing to do with ThrottleStop!


Throttlestop + A08: Throttlestop resets the multipliers back up and now we're back at pre-A08 performance which makes it largely a non-issue for those of use that are aware of TS in the first place.

The issue: The vast majority of M17x-R2 owners are not aware of TS or even NBR and bought the 920xm/940xm (where applicable) in good faith for up to $1200 extra. They were given a certain baseline performance and now it's been taken away from them without notice. That is the problem I have with what Dell did along with several others on this forum. This is a bait and switch tactic and is unacceptable.

If people had issues on battery, dell shoud have found a more effective solution to circumvent the problem than to drop the turbo multipliers back to default.


As for turning our backs on Dell: We don't owe them any thanks, none, zip. They didn't do us any favors by issuing a vbios or releasing newer drivers. This is something they were obligated to do because the M17x-R2 with Crossfire 5870s was broken. In fact, we've had to deal with a broken system for 4 months until this new vbios. If anything, they should be thanking us for not suing them.