*OFFICIAL* Alienware 17 Ranger (2013) Owner's Lounge Thread

Good Scores, that's the way to add some good parts to an 'older' notebook to keep it going fit & strong! You won't be needing to upgrade that in a hurry, and certainly not with some GPU overclocking too!

 

Chances are that you have repasted your laptop and modded its cooling. People have tested these laptops with stock cooling and a modded vBIOS. Alienware does not provide fan control, but people can use a third party application to control the fans. Changing the fan profiles to the same as last year's should be enough to keep temperatures below 75C CPU/GPU all the time.

The silly throttling is a good reason to consider MSI though.

 

How are battery running times so far?

 

Which scenario do you think cause highest temperatures:
1. 3DMark11 on Performance preset, running on 720P with no AA enabled. Test takes what, 5 minutes to finish?
2. Metro Last Light on Ultra, 1080P with 4xAA, gaming for 2-3-4-5 hours?

The answer should be obvious. Since 780M is already throttling in 3DMark11 it doesn`t bode well for gaming. Bioshock is hardly any demanding, and there are factors to think about here. There was a guy here who tested Tomb Raider with the Dell Vbios. His results clearly shows that Dell have limited the 780M performance in gaming too. Its worse than 680M with Optimus.
Just so we are on the same page, Optimus have 66C as limit. No Optimus have 77C.

I can think of several issues that might arrive later even with Optimus disabled:
Room temperature. Temperatures in summer vs winter.
Dust accumulating in the notebook causing higher temps than it should
Old paste not functioning like it should
You can just forget about overclocking on this new Alienware 17. Several people here have tried and have throttling all over the place. They tried a different vbios and suddenly overclocking worked.

Lets face it. Alienware 17 drew the shortest straw this time. Alienware 14 and 18 got the greatest screen, IPS. Aienware 17 got old screens used on earlier models. Like R3 that had horrible throttling issues because of the thermal limit made by Dell, Alienware 18 doesn`t have these issues. Alienware 17 do.

But Im willing to wait for more reports from Alienware 17 owners before concluding here. Including wait and see what happens with new drivers from Dell.

 

So there´s no throtteling in the AW 18?
What makes you believe that?

 

Is the Throttling really that bad? I'm hoping that this won't affect gaming performance. I don't want to pay $2500 for something that's not really meant to give me a good gaming performance. at this point, I would opt to return it instead and get some other laptop

 

But Dell screwed up the 14 by building one with almost the same dimensions as a high-end 15", and it screwed up the 18 by using a smaller battery, removing ExpressCard, and adding a sharper palmrest than the previous 18". I would choose the 17 if not for its throttling.

i.e. Despite all the improvements, recommending any of these laptops is hard.

 

From what I've gathered, flashing the vbios to SVL7's custom version negates throttling on the 780m... So what's the problem? It takes 5 minutes, if that. Obviously, the issue shouldn't be in need of fixing in the first place, but I feel there's a lot of scare mongering going on here. These machines have barely been on the market a month, give it some time. I for one am still really excited to get mine, as it's a huge step up from my m15x. I understand where those who own Kepler 680ms are coming from with regards to returning their machines because the performance leap isn't that great, but everyone else just needs to keep calm and flash their vbios.
Someone please correct me if what I've gathered from this thread is wrong!

 

Flashing the vBIOS would not be a problem if Dell took kindly to it. Besides, why should Alienware owners have to workaround such a thermal limit when Clevo, MSI, and ASUS owners, who pay much less for their laptops, do not? Alienware advertises "ultimate performance."

 

Acknowledged, why should they when they pay a premium price; yet I think it's ridiculous that some people are contemplating returning machines based on little over a week of information (since systems began to reach their owners,) in which a viable fix has already been released. I'd have flashed my vbios anyway, more than likely. I just don't see it as that big of a problem. Maybe that's just me!

 

The way I see it:

- Disable Optimus, highten the temperature limit to 77C. Will help sometimes, others not since 77C is still very low for a hardcore GPU like 780M. You lose Optimus and its benefits, better battery life plus reduced heat because the GPU is shut down.
- Run SVL Vbios, lose GPU Boost 2.0. A feature that overclocks the GPU automatically if its within a temperature limit. Great feature for those who don`t want to overclock. A hassle for those who overclock because it interferes with overclocking.
- Run SVL Vbios, you are unlucky and have GPU problems for some reason. You are unable to reflash the GPU to Dell Vbios. You send it in, Dell run some diagnostics on it, "This is not Dell Vbios, you have used a Vbios not certified by us. Warranty not valid"

Didn`t you read my earlier links?
Earlier models (M17x R3 had the same issue), but not M18x R1. Atleast not as severe.
http://www.alienowners.com/showthread.php/470-m17x-r3-580m-Throttling-Concerns

Also note the tips in that link to help you against the throttling problems. Laughable to force a user do those steps (disable things, edit fan speed) because Dell doesn`t want to cooperate.

 

I agree with you in the sense that everything on this machine just came out and needs time to iron out issues, I'm just extra OCD when I'm shelling out $2600 for it. Lol!

 

I opted for the 120Hz screen, so I have no need to worry about having to disable Optimus. Guess that affects my decision on the matter too!
I'm also not 100% sure that the SVL7 vbios actually disables GPU Boost 2.0 yet, I think it's currently being worked on.
I can't argue with the possible issue with not being able to reflash to the original vbios though, as (hopefully) unlikely that is to happen to anyone

 

Over 30 FPS With ultimate settings in Tomb Raider is amazing on a laptop. With some better drivers from NVidia I wouldn't be surprised with it getting higher FPS. It may be disappointing to people expecting the 30% over their GTX 680m's though. My point is that people who just want to play current games fluidly on high settings for the next two years will be fine and shouldn't panic over their systems (if they're upgrading from Fermi or older). I've yet to hit above 72 degrees C (it's been in the high 80's F where I live) in non Optimus mode, and with regular care should be able to keep it that way. But your right that they are well in their rights to return it if it doesn't meet their performance needs.

 

I think that's about right, but most A17 owners aren't likely to read this forum anyway, so they're stuck with the issue without knowing about it (although ignorance can be bliss!). Also, those that do read this forum may not be comfortable with the 'difficulties' of vBIOS flashing, and then there's the issue with concerns over void warranties. Plus, Alienware/Dell customers shouldn't have to resort to 3rd party modded vBIOS files to get their machine to run as well as competitors notebooks. If you're willing to go through all of the above, then it's not really an issue, but there's probably quite a few folks that think this is a lot of bother just to get a machine that runs as well as competitors products. (Me personally, if I was going to be getting the A17, I'd just go ahead & flash it, and then enjoy it).

 

I spoke with a Dell technician in The Netherlands this morning about the GPU thermal throttle issue. The tech told me that "offiically" they are not aware of this issue, but that unofficially they are, with no plans to remove the 77c limit.

On that basis I have initiated a return of this laptop for a full refund. I've had it three days. In Crysis the GPU is maxxed out, and it hits the thermal throttle point in under 15mins. What follows is 20secs of reduced performance, then 30secs of normal performance, then rinse and repeat.

To me this is completely unacceptable. I will get my refund, and bide my time whilst I investigate other makes/models. When I am certain which one will be thermal issues / problem free, I will order.

 

Oh man, so sorry to hear about this. Not plans to remove the 77C limit? What on earth are the engineers thinking about? Probably the same as R3, if you read this post, Dell have to re certify the Alienware 17 because of the "skin temperature" will change with it. Something about the casing itself will become hotter.
Well maybe you should have certified the damn system from the beginning with some proper temps ey Dell?

What you experienced in Crysis with the new machine is identical with what happens if you run the GPU through 3DMark11. It throttles. Which is why it scores so horrible in it.

Owners and people who are interested in this system should create a petition or atleast make themselves heard. Dell need to bow down to this. When we as customers pay over $2300 for a system, we demand to have a fully functional system!

 

That's the final nail in the coffin for me. They seem to have lost touch with their customer's needs and expectations. BTW, thermal throttling occured at 72-73 degrees for me instead of 77 degrees (non-optimus 3D). What's worse, however, is the bad overclocking performance of my GTX780m, which would not run stable above 930-940 MHz. This, of course, could just be my bad luck.

 

I believe that the problem is indeed to do with skin temp - i.e the base of the unit would get too hot. IMO anyone who places a laptop such as this on their laps is a bit of a tool anyway. Because of this reason, we all suffer.

 

I've not heard anything of this, I'm trying to track down anyone who's actually experiencing that to have find out the clock speeds and what exactly is going on.

For now all I've seen is quotes, for anybody who's actually encountered this please PM me a log file and I'll look into it asap.

 

I appreciate your response - however do you think I would go throught the hassle of returning what is overall a very nice laptop, if I was not experiencing a real problem? I was very very happy with every other aspect of the laptop, its just this one issue that kills it dead for me. Some games (like Bioshock) are fine, as they don't work the GPU so hard. However any game which works the GPU for 100% will hit the thermal throttle limit every time.

P.S - Ambient room temps of 23c, so thats not the issue.

 

Yeah you better fix this problem ASAP. The word is spreading and you are losing customers to other brands every single day you keep this BS temperature limit on the GTX 780M. And I will continue to write negatively about it until you act and issue out new vbios for exisiting Alienware 17 owners and flash cards that is being built with it too.

ShipWreck79, Quokka, Nyceis are three people who have posted information about the throttling in this thread.

Here, the first Alienware 17 review Dell bragged about. 3DMark11 score: 5903. Lower than R4 with GTX 680M. That should be a gigantic tell for you guys...

 

I appreciate an official response. I don't have a log file at hand, because my AW17 is already packed up to be returned, but I can assure you, the problem is there, and it's very real.

I imagine you should have a few AW17s lying around, so please just install any benchmark (3DM11 shows the problem nicely) and some monitoring software, and see for yourself.

I dare say many of us enthusiasts are ready to spend the premium that AW charges because they expect quality and performance in return. And by performance, I frankly don't mean performance at stock. Overclocking potential is something that is expected with a premium high performance brand. You failed to deliver with the 580m in the M17x R3. When the M17x R4 was launched, it was delivered with a a BIOS that had GPU overclock disabled altogether. Yes, you rectified that pretty soon. And thanks to dedicated people like svl7, the R4 was finally able to deliver fully. I'm a happy owner of one beast of a machine that scores 5100+ in 3DM Firestrike and 8100+ in 3DM11.

I had my fingers crossed for the AW17, fully aware of the fact that I was not to expect a performance leap. I did hope for a moderate increase though. But, what I got was a crippled machine that barely manages to beat my R4 at stock, let alone come close to its overclocking performance.

Then, aside from the GPU issue, there are those little things that seem to have gotten worse: no more SB Recon 3Di, no Killer-WLAN, heck, not even a pouch anymore, let alone mousepad or cap.

And all this comes at a considerably increased price.

This AW17 that is now going back would have been my 6th AW in total.
I'm not outraged, but I am disappointed, and i will definitely skip this generation of AWs. Next year, I will consider the replacement for my R4 very carefully, and I will definitely look into other brands. I believe others will do the same.

 

Just going to point out that Cloudfire was the one flaming the editors for their review of MSI's dragon edition gaming laptop. It went on long enough and in such a fashion that you might suspect there was a vested interest with a certain competitor of Alienware.

 

I'm a bit confused why that would be 100% necessary. It sounds easily reproducable to me. Just have someone at Dell run the GPU at 100% until it gets to 77 degC and then see it throttle. It doesn't sound like an isolated incidence from reading this forum, and also seeing that Laptop Mag review as well with the P5900 3Dmark11 score - that's way too low. But at the same time I'm baffled that Alienware released it like this, I mean surely they would have tested it anyway, and would know about this throttling already, hence you not even needing to ask for a log file in the first place. Hmmm. I'm sure your presence on these boards is appreciated though, so I'll say thanks for that.

 

Been tinkering with my new 17 for a few days now. Not seeing any major issues.

Here are my thoughts:

* STOCK, out of the box performance leaves a lot to be desired. Optimus really puts a damper on the system, but this is true of almost any Optimus notebook, even worse with AMD cards and hybrid graphics.

* STOCK, out of the box performance without Optimus was great in my eyes, ~P7200 on 3DM11, low temps (under 77C as stated) and low noise.

* Screen quality, the screen looks really great for a matte TN panel. There is definitely a trade-off with colors when you go matte vs a glossy but this isn't anything new.

* I'm currently running svl7 vBios with +50/+100 clocks @ 130 power & 85C temp limit with Optimus ON. Getting ~P7500. Super stable with temps leveling at around 83C as expected. Feel really great about this, super solid rig, great performance.

* WiFi is working great, been downloading Steam games for a few days now and consistently getting ~4.5MB/s+ over WiFi unless Steam is having a problem. (I have a 50Mbit connection and 5Ghz N)

* Sound card sounds great, both with internal speakers and headphones. I hear no hiss that people are reporting. I'm using Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's @ 250 Ohm with this laptop, I'd definitely be able to hear a hiss. For you audiophiles out there like me, the sound card in the Alienware seems to drive these high impedance cans very well, I'm impressed. If you're serious, would definitely still recommend an external DAC/Amp obviously.

* Build quality is AWESOME. Much better than my M17X R4. I've already had to strip the thing to install an mSATA drive and the tear-down/re-assembly was much easier as well. Many improvements here.

My ONLY gripe so far is the wireless chipset on the Broadcom 802.11ac card is BCM4352, which currently has no support under Linux and probably will not for some time. The card is a 2x2 + BT and the third antenna is pre-installed in the Alienware for you already for a 3x3 card. The WiFi card this time is installed right under the bottom case and is really easy to get to. If you're concerned with this like I am there are a lot of options here. I'm going to pick up a Killer 1103 3x3 and give up Bluetooth in exchange for the Atheros chipset that is well supported under Linux. If you use Bluetooth you can get pretty much any Intel/Atheros card and be okay but I'd recommend the Killer 1202 2x2 + BT.

If any of you have any more questions regarding the 17 let me know, I'll try my best to come up with an answer.

 

It's so nice to hear some good feedback after the last 2-3 days worth of posts. Thank you! Everything so far is fixable imo, so I'm super excited to get mine and start tinkering.

 

Wow good thing you guys like being beta testers, think ill hold off on this one. Talked to a rep the other day and good to hear the m18xr2 are still available thing ill order one of those up instead. Sorry to hear you guys/gals having these problems, shouldnt not happen at these prices.

 

Optimus doesn't have to put a damper on any system. It just seems to be 'messed up' on the A17. I had Optimus on my R3 when I had my GTX 560M in this laptop, and Optimus never lowered any scores as long is it was using the right card for the graphics (ie the NVidia chip when gaming). For some unknown reason to me in the A17, it seems that they have 2 temperature throttling limits depending on whether Optimus is enabled or not, with the throttling temperature being lower when Optimus is enabled.

In my experience in a properly configured notebook Optimus has never reduced performance, only extended battery life when not gaming.

 

What are your CPU temperatures like? Is a +135/+500 OC stable?

 

This is true, you're absolutely right. There is a different temp limit in a stock config with Optimus enabled on these 17's. It definitely does hinder performance.

 

I just ran the Tomb Raider benchmark with my current setup as stated above. These are the results:

(Note: I don't necessarily think Tomb Raider is a fair benchmark for the 780M as the current drivers we got (311) are older and Tomb Raider has been notorious for having performance problems on NVIDIA hardware, a lot of which has been improved with newer drivers.)

Tomb Raider / 1080 / Ultra / vSync Off

Min: 49 FPS
Max: 77 FPS
Avg: 60 FPS

CPU Temp:
Min: 45C
Max: 67C

GPU Temp:
Min: 56C
Max: 78C

 

I'm relieved. Glad I did the mistake and it's not the laptop, I found a copy of 3dmark11 and got a score of P7055, I think it's good for the current nvidia drivers.

Thanks

 

well on a somewhat related note, some is stealing everyone's alienware unboxing videos on youtube and reposting them as his own. i was very shocked to see my video on his channel, acting like he was me

 

When you say "without Optimus", meaning disabling it by pressing "FN+F5"? Or via a setting/ BIOS mod?
Was the installation of the svl7 "easy"?
So to get Linux working properly, I will have to change my network card?

 

Wow, he must really want an A17!

 

Yes, without Optimus is simply FN+F5.

I thought it was pretty simple but I'm also fairly skilled technically. I ended up having to use the latest version of nvFlash which runs in Windows otherwise nvFlash was complaining I was using too old of a version for the vBios I was trying to flash. It takes about 5 min to complete start-to-finish and a reboot isn't even required. I can put together a tutorial if people think it would be helpful?

To get Linux working properly *with WiFi* you will. I was able to boot into Arch Linux installer and Ubuntu Live USB I just didn't proceed past that since there was no USB. I imagine most everything else will work just fine, Haswell support has been in the Linux kernel for quite some time now.

 

Hey all- been following this thread. Am about to swap a 17X R4 for one of these as part of a service issue (long story), and am doing my research. One thing I noticed is I can no longer get a simple 256GB SSD. Mine was a Samsung 830. The closest option to what I had would be getting the "mSATA 256GB Boot + 750 GB SATA". I've done some research on the new mSATA offering, but am still very skeptical. Can you guys help me out here? The usage of "Boot" seems rather odd, and evokes the whole SSD-as-cache thing I wanted no part of. I just wanted a straightforward SSD for everything. Thoughts? If it helps, this is the information I have about the specific model of the mSATA they use:

SSDR,256,S3,FULL,MCARD,SM841
SAMSUNG MZMPD256HAGM-000D1

I may have the option of just getting a Samsung 830 in there instead.

Have no idea about all this. Help?

 

For me at least it will be!

Ahh ok.. as ArchLinux is a "must" for me. Maybe I will try using it via VM until I get another wifi card - support comes along.

 

I would imagine if they said "256GB Boot" for the SSD it wouldn't be in a caching setup. I'd go for that!

I used to run a 128GB Boot SSD and 750GB SATA for games, was great, arguably the best setup aside from two SSDs.

Edit: Even if the SSD was in a caching setup, you can nuke that and reinstall with the drives being separate as well.

 

You can get a Killer 1103 or Killer 1202 for about the same price ~$50 for either.

With the 1103 you get 3x3, no bluetooth
With the 1202 you get 2x2 + bluetooth (exactly like the one included on the A17)

 

I guess I just don't get why they call it a "Boot" setup, and not just a main drive or OS drive. That is what it is, no? Windows installed on the SSD and just an extra massive drive hanging around?

Or is there some special relationship between them owing to the Boot designation?

 

I would greatly appreciate that. Thanks!

 

Where do we stand when it comes to warranty after flashing the vbios? I'd like to see a tutorial if your willing to write one. Im savvy with most things but flashing a gpu is a new one for me and I dont want to mess it up and brick my machine

 

Under the "accidental damage warranty" it should be covered, I always opt for that one as that covers basically everything from spills, drops, or flying out your window. Not sure about the standard warranty though. My experience with warranties though, is if you stay firm in your "position" Dell will eventually come around.

 

Well, you can setup a "caching" setup where the SSD isn't actually visible as a drive and is just used to cache frequently accessed files from the HDD. It all appears as if you have one drive in that setup.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

I'll try to come up with a tutorial in the next several hours.

 

Yes I secretly work for MSI and try my best to discourage people from buying this machine. I am paid $100 for every person that buy MSI instead.
You got me.



Or

I am very interested in either Alienware 17 or 18 and want to make some noise to let Dell see we aint taking this temperature throttling from them. In case you havent noticed, a Dell rep recently replied said they are investigating this problem.

Have a nice day :thumbsup:

 

When I am booted up into dos on my USB I type in nvflash -a and it says program doesn't run in dos. Any tips?

 

The absolute newest version of nvFlash runs under windows command line. Grab the one that specifically says "for DOS".