Put a 6970 card in my 120hz R3 and......

He's using 120hz...You can't buy the 120hz with the ATI card, I thought it would work myself but apparently it doesn't

 

That's not accurate at all. You can set the refresh rate in Windows to 120hz. I have it set to that, it DEFAULTS to 60hz but is able to be changed. You do NOT have to be in 3D mode to use 120hz, not sure where you heard that.

 

I just saw this in AlienNave's FS thread and thaught i might stick it here for everybody interested in this "project" :

Just to let you know you're not the only one my wife bares the same thing with me.
+1 for your support in the name of science. Much appreciated!

 

If I am reading that correctly that means with the 60hz screen you can boot and use the system perfectly fine without an add-in GPU...Obviously not the case with the 120hz panel.

 

No it definitely does not work without a dGPU in the computer, which tells me either Dell really has this bios jacked or the screen natively runs at 120hz(during boot) until windows tells it otherwise.

 

In OUR laptops since we have the 120hz model...If you had an extra LCD panel sitting around I would see if you could boot off of that with the other stuff. And by other stuff I mean video cards, no cards, etc. Most all screens have the same connector.

 

this is something I presumed in a post a few days ago, also as there are 2 LCD connectors on the MB prob one for 3D one for none 3D (still to be confirmed) switching the LCD plug to the other connector may yeild a result regardless of 120hz panel

 

Hmm I should have booted my R3 w/out the 6970M in it to test for this. Maybe I will later tonight.

 

Please do.

And can anyone confirm what advantage we would get on the 2920xm versus 2820qm?

 

yeh, you can put extreme in your sig lol

 

higher clocks, unlocked multiplier

 

Yes, if Dell did not implement the lock bit to prevent TDP/TDC changes, one could theoretically employ the use of ThrottleStop and push it much higher than stock. This could lead to the CPU being stable at 3.5 GHz+ on all 4 cores.

 

That's what I figured...Noone knows yet, I guess...Can't find any information on that.

 

well when I get mine I can engage some of you guys to safely test out some features using the bios or throttle stop

 

So the second card didn't work either, it's not going to work as they are now I also got pics of the mobo from another member with a 6970 from the factory and it uses the other connector as I though. Basically we're looking at something that probably won't ever work with the current 120hz screen we have unfortunately.

 

I KNEW IT !!! Now modify your sig to say only GTX 485m
Or probably something can be changed in BIOS to make the 6970 take the other route (use the other connector, should be a heck of a modification if possible), it should be able to render on a 120Hz screen

 

Wow.
The lv2 that I'm dealing with is harassing me to act on my return+reorder and I've been waiting for your findings. This really blows. Now I have to decided between 3d or not 3d (+self upgrade to 6970) since canada website has no 6970

 

I finally spoke to someone who knew what the prlblem is, its not the routing its the bios. The bios detects the 6970, enables the igp, and the igp+120hz is a no go. Now I am dealing with some idiot that thinks its my chipset causing bsod's that are directx bsods

 

So, is there a way to disable the IGP from the start?
Somehow i don't think the answer is going to come from them

 

In that case Dell has not done anything out of the ordinary to disable or block via bios. The bios is working as logically as it should. The hardware , in this case being the IGP doesnt work with 120Hz WLED panel.

So we have the answer to the problem for which we cant materialize usable solution. Dell is not goin to start programming its bios by taking into account all the variables users might attempt at putting the hardware through. This will only happen if Dell starts giving 120Hz screens + Amd cards from the factory itself.

Until this happens ( which most likely wont) users currently stuck with 3D and Nvidia 460M can only hope another Nvidia card such as 485m works.

Being too costly I hope someone with deep pockets quickly tries to see if 485m works or not.

Anyway I think this problem as faced by Dane and others are only a limited group of people or early adopters who went with the 3D in comparison with the Amd 6870.

Current buyers know exactly what they want. 3D or Not. Those who want their cakes and eat it too ( 120Hz ) are the ones facing this dilemma, not current buyers.

AND STOP ADVISING BUYERS TO BUY 3D BY SUGGESTING A HIGH PROBABILITY OF NVIDIA GTX 485M COMING THEIR IN THE FUTURE AS AN UPGRADE OR SELF UPGRADE UNTIL ITS SUBSTANTIATED. HOPES DO NOT ALWAYS MATERIALIZE INTO NOTEBOOKS WITH THE CONFIGURATION WE WANT. THERE IS DEFINITELY A REASON WHY 460M WAS CHOSEN RATHER THAN A NEWER CARD FOR THE 3D UNLIKE SUCH AN EARLY ADOPTION OF AMD RADEON 6970M BY DELL FOR THE NON 3D. EVEN WHEN 5870M WAS RELEASED, IT TOOK AWHILE BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED ON TO M17X. PERHAPS NEWER NVIDIA CARDS COMPARED TO 460M YIELDED UNFAVORABLE RESULTS DUE TO TECHNICAL ISSUES OR NVIDIA IS STILL YET TO OPTIMISE THE NEWER GENERATION FOR 3D PERFORMANCE VIA DRIVERS.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOTEBOOKS IN THE MARKET USING BETTER NVIDIA CARDS FOR 3D GAMING IN NOTEBOOKS? THAT CAN BE AN INDICATION.

 

That's just sloppy.

 

Thanks for the update DaneGR. Hopefully they will update the bios so we can disable IGP

 

Thanks Dane, now we know its now up to Dell or someone who can update the BIOS

 

what kind of bsod have you been having dane?

 

+1 for all the effort danegrclose (amongst others), great to see you finally have an answer for everyone - and one that makes perfect sense at that. hopefully the process of reordering will prove much simpler now...

 

Nice to have it confirmed. Good work

 

do you get any flashing lights? i found when replacing cards i somehow manage to dislodge the two monitor cables ... ( never notice it till i get the beep and flashing lights) i disconnect and reconnect and all is well again

 

Nope no flashing lights, everything would start up fine but the screen wouldn't engage. It won't boot and just beeps 8 times then stops and starts beeping again until you shut it off and put the Nvidia card back in. This really sucks that this is this way, if Alienware doesn't find a way around this and/or offer a stronger Nvidia card they need to shoot their engineers.

 

I agree this really sucks!!! Looks like I will be selling.

 

6970 is available with Dell Canada, you just tell the dell rep to add it manually. I order one with 6970 two weeks ago. cheers.

 

actually I 100% disagree with that statment, the people who are "stuck with" are actually the AMD early adopters as you will find out soon enough, the 485m card has a much bigger chance of working in the 3D config machine than the AMD ever did and it has already been stated by Dell that it will not have a problem, we will find out today or tomorrow if that is the case...................then who is stuck with then eh ?

 

did you move the lcd panel plug to the other connector on the MB ? there are two


ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOTEBOOKS IN THE MARKET USING BETTER NVIDIA CARDS FOR 3D GAMING IN NOTEBOOKS? THAT CAN BE AN INDICATION.


yes there are many if you took the trouble to look

 

LOL I was the one who found and pointed out that there are two. If you read through the thread you will find your answer, I'll give you a clue, I tired literally every possible combination without switching the screen itself

 

I have heard the 6970 will not work with the 120hz screen, can anyone verify this?

 

ah right, so the bios looks 120hz - AMD and 8 beeps no matter what, fair enough mate you tried - hats off and repppped

 

^ They just did verify it. It won't work. Only hope for 3d/120hz with a 5870CF level gpu is now the 485m

 

yup and Dell already said no problem, we shall see - other thread running this one is done I think

 

That was me that mentioned Dell saying that, apparantly no one at Dell is on the same page though. I spoke to another engineer today who knew exactly what I was talking about - from the routing of the lcd cables to the detection issues in the BIOS. Unless Dell changes the bios where the IGP isn't turned on with the AMD+120hz combo it's a no go and even then I don't know if it would work because of the routing issues. As someone else said the only hope that the 3D model has of being any better than the 460m is the 485m or another GPU. The 460m is a good card but with all the driver issues and bsods I've had plus a few other things it's really just not worth it IMO. I'm waiting to hear a response from Dell but even if it costs me the 120hz panel I'll be moving to the 6970m. Nvidia disappoints me yet again with a bit of help from Dell.

 

I don't think he was trying to in your cereal. Lighten up. No matter what config one took, there are drawbacks. But the rampant speculating on the 485 is ruining a lot of threads. Several poster's constant defense of it being offered or working with no knowledge of such is fanboyism and has probably led to a few misinformed purchases. I'd wager if it doesnt work you are going to see quite a few 460 r3's on the Dell outlet. Be happy with your purchase and can we stop derailing threads to make ourselves feel better about our purchase?

Back to the topic.... Dane, any last ideas before you call it quits? When the IGP is disabled in windows, it's still used during POST? And why won't the 6970 work in the other port? Something in the monitor recognizes a non nvidia gpu?

 

He was shouting actually, typing in caps, how in your face is that ?


I was following this thread and the good work being done, 485 subject = vads24

if the bios checks gpu's and then screen type then says no boot AMD and 120hz then unless someone hacks the bios this is done and dusted, though the AMD card does work with 120hz screen as seen in the HP

 

HP offers an AMD Radeon with their ENVY 3D, 120hz screen, so there has to be a way to get the 6970 to work. There has to be a way to disable/bypass the IGP at reboot. The answer may be on the HP forums. I think I came across a post where someone upgraded to the 6970.

 

You must understand in this case, HP has chosen in factory to use Amd Card for 3D. So maybe in that case placing a better Amd Card capable of 3D works in that HP.

Its not a case of AMD not having the capacity to do 3D. This is a case where Dell has chosen a weaker GPU compared to what is available today.

Infact Dell could have gone with AMD or Nvidia for both 3D or non 3D. Apart from other reasons I also think AMD was not a top choice for 3D due to the immaturity of the technology from their end.

" The AMD HD3D Technology offers support for Blu-Ray 3D and 3D displays (integrated and external). However, the solution is not as mature as Nvidias 3D Vision. "

QUOTED FROM NOTEBOOKCHECK.NET

If the HP user indeed upgraded his 3D card from one AMD to another. Then barring bios restriction or technical parameters, a better Nvidia Card should also work.

Our hope is some is able to try this very soon in a day or 2 because we have users that have to decide this with Dell reps asap.

 

Well be sure to tell us if you do find something, but I have a feeling alot of people are holding off, I know quite a few people are selling the 6970's they bought as after market to install with the 120hz 3d screen, obviously it didn't work for them.

 

For those that don't understand what's going on here I'll lay out the issue(s)

When the computer tries to boot it goes through an initial post sequence that detects the hardware and makes sure nothing is wrong, when it does this it detects the AMD gpu and enables the IGP due to the way the bios is currently programmed, the IGP and 120hz screen and clash and won't allow it to finish the post or actually boot.

Another thing that may or may not be an issue is that the AMD systems I've seen pics of have the dGPU routed to a different spot on the mother board than the 3D systems do. This may just be a routing difference for the screen only, there's no telling without additional knowledge from the engineers that designed the system as no one else at Dell seems to know what they're doing with this system.

Also, this is not a compatibility issue of the AMD card and 120hz card, this is the fact that Dell programmed the BIOS in what I view as possibly short sighted. The one thing I don't understand is how the BIOS can disable the IGP with the Nvidia/120hz but enable it with the AMD in any combo, it tells me that Dell doesn't want us to be able to use the 6970/120hz combo.

It really sucks that this doesn't work, unfortunately I don't think it's ever going to work. If it does I don't see Dell waiving a flag saying it will until they sell them that way from the factory so they can make the most $$$ off the consumer.

 

Since HP uses the same components, SB, 120hz and current Intel CPUs and they offer an AMD Radeon working with a 120hz screen. What hardware limitations could there be with alienware? There should be a work around.

 

Well.... we can always hope they enable it in future bios.... until then I'll wait to see if the 485m functions properly

 

the ENVY 3D's amd glasses emitter is different technology than the nvidia glasses emitter found within the M17x R3...

the technology for emitter glasses vary for each oem (common problem/complaint in the home theater arena as well - nvidia/mitsubishi are one of the rare instances where the same emitter technology is used, which is why the nvidia 3D vision glasses can be used with mitsubishi's 3DTV's). this can quite possibly be an additional issue for consideration as to why the bios is being limited, only to be compounded by the igp being limited to 60Hz...

 

Dane, thats very simple bro. Dell doesn't issue 2 separate bios for 3D and Non 3D. They have simply made it one bios which simply works for both. They know the combination of their hardware and would make the bios as such. They wont make Bios based on the presumtion that you would buy a 3D and try switching GPUs of another brand. Why would they invite more issues than they might face with the official configurations.

The 120Hz screen is not some special premium screen like RGBLED and only required when 3D is needed. So of course they wont program the bios to work with every other GPU. They IGP is also a factor. They cant take into account all possible combinations that users will try individually. If thats the case whats the point of having a proprietary bios. Might as well leave it open ended for us to buy our own components. But when some issue arises, whom do we blame or turn to for solution. Dell. Its a headache they rather not deal with in business fairly speaking.

Non 3D -----> AMD/Nvidia with 60Hz------> IGP enabled because its 60Hz screen.

3D ----------> Nvidia ( 460M only ?) with 120Hz--------->IGP is disabled because the IGP cannot handle 120Hz screen.

3D -----///-----> AMD with 120Hz -----------> IGP is enabled because AMD is meant for 60Hz, but IGP cannot handle 120Hz screen hence all the bleeping beepin (YOU HAVE HARDWARE CONFLICT).

* The bios operates on the basis of of the Graphic Card Used for which Dell has 2 distinct cards for 3D and Non 3D. If it was programmed to work based on Screen Hz...its going to cause more problems...

Well I dont know how true the money making part is...but its logical for them to have made the bios like that.

Just wait for a day or 2 on the Nvidia 485m possibility. I think ur decision should be more concrete and clear after that.

Respect you for your efforts...What you did woke many of us up to this fact rather than a problem.

 

Good thinking but that shouldn't have anything to do with an AMD card not working with the 120hz screen.

Look at the bright side, you can get the amd 6790 with a 60hz screen and graphic switching, which brings many benefits. You can also game in style through HDMI to a 3D TV or monitor or gp multi display. Lots of benfits over M17x 3D offering.

 

I think these restrictions are to do with contracts and agreements, it's the only thing that would make sense out of all this, it's another reason why I think the 485m will work in 3D configured machines - because it's Nvidia and Nvidia has exclusive rights to AW 3D