580M SLI throttling Discussion Thread

AMD does a poor job handling tessellation compared to Fermi. Nvidia also has specific hardware designed to deal with tessellation. 2 weeks ago I had a M18x with 6990M CF and a M18x with 580M SLI.
I had them side by side running the same games to try and see what cards performed better. The 580M SLI always came out on top. From 10% to 15%. Since I had 2 extra 580M cards at my disposal I got approval to convert my 6990M CF M18x to 580M SLI. Now I'm sitting on 2 580M SLI M18x. Believe me when I say that I've throughly tested both configs.

Nvidia GeForce GTX 580M Features
3D Vision – Access to 525 3DTV ready titles
Nvidia Optimus – Automatically switch between GPUs – “5 hours on Facebook, 100FPS in COD:Black Ops”
DirectX11 – Direct X 11 support.
PhysX - More detailed and realistic gameplay through physics.
SLI – Double down with SLI configurations for 2x Scaling.
Enhanced Tessellation – See greater detail in-game.
Verde Drivers – Optimized, often updated drivers.
http://notebooks.com/2011/06/28/nvidia-launches-gtx-580m-fastest-notebook-gpu-ever/

 

yeah, i was going to leave that alone..since you're SUPPOSE to turn on tessellation...not force it off. when i turned it on....my fps dropped pretty damn hard.

 

That's strange I leave it at the default settings and the Verde drivers are set to let application decide. I've never disabled tessellation to increase performance.

 

you can't. you have nvidia. this goes for amd.

 

oh. So you were saying your frames dropped on AMD?

 

Frames dropped only in Unigine for me when forcing tessellation to 64. All gaming benches remained the same.

 

In game where heavy tessellation is used(crysis 2) I've seen the 6990M CF take a heavy hit in frames from 56 down to 27. Where as in the same area with the same settings the 580M did not drop in frames.

 

Regarding Crysis 2, read this article

 

Thanks for the link, Aiki. The last few paragraphs on the last page are very enlightening regarding AMD and NVIDIA.

One of my boys just purchased Crysis 2 for his PS3 and it is not visually impressive on the PS3 platform... very ordinary looking environment.

 

im talking about image quality though since you mentioned it looks better on nvidia, that shouldnt be the case. IQ has been the same from both vendors for years.

 

Nice read Aiki. Not only does Nvidia have the right hardware/software, they also have deep pockets to make sure that centain high profile titles support their gpu solutions. The way it's meant to be played

This is from your link Aiki. This is what I've been trying to convey.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/21404/6

Unnecessary geometric detail slows down all GPUs, of course, but it just so happens to have a much larger effect on DX11-capable AMD Radeons than it does on DX11-capable Nvidia GeForces. The Fermi architecture underlying all DX11-class GeForce GPUs dedicates more attention (and transistors) to achieving high geometry processing throughput than the competing Radeon GPU architectures. We've seen the effect quite clearly in synthetic tessellation benchmarks. Few games have shown a similar effect, simply because they don't push enough polygons to strain the Radeons' geometry processing rates. However, with all of its geometric detail, the DX11 upgraded version of Crysis 2 now manages to push that envelope. The guys at Hardware.fr found that enabling tessellation dropped the frame rates on recent Radeons by 31-38%. The competing GeForces only suffered slowdowns of 17-21%.

580M SLI already has higher frames than 6990M CF in Crysis 2. Most CF owners have tessellation disabled. SLI owners have it enabled without a choice to disable. I wonder what kind of frames we could expect if we were able to disable tessellation. Probably 17-21% more. The SLI solution already beats the AMD solution with tessellation enabled.

 

zero..what game do you have right now?

 

waiting on my copies of skyrim/arkham city/bf 3: limited edition to unlock.

i returned my copy of rage. only 2 pc games i really enjoyed since getting my m18x are the witcher 2 and deux ex.

not sure what youre asking

 

ok, im playing rage right now. what is your take on that game?

 

Zero, why did you return rage?

 

and yours as well sky, if you have it.

and is it really running on ogl?

 

I held off because one of your previous post said it had stuttering.

 

not sure, never played it

i never opened it and decided its not worth $45 (what i paid) . it feels like a rushed pc release (weird textures/no high res textures - however its in the works?). ill get it on stream when it goes for $30 during their infamous xmas sale.

 

Hmmm....from all the videos I've seen it looks sick!! Where did you find it for 45.00? It's 59.99USD everywhere I've looked.

 

Canadian retailer sale. Order 3 of any E3 2011 game and get $60 off, which knocks the games price to around $43 CDN.

diablo 3 will also be $43 as well as battlefield 3 and skyrim.

i also pre-ordered rage (returned), max payne 3 and ninja gaiden 3 for PS3.

 

I see. Also the 22GB to 25GB install was a contributing factor in delaying my purchase. My primary SSD has only 70GB's left of space and I hate installing on my D drive. Unless it's with Steam Mover.

 

really...well it looks ok, but it only runs at 60 fps...any clue why??

 

I've heard that it only runs on one GPU from AMD users. If that is the case for Nvidia, maybe it's a FPS cap for a single gpu.

 

must be. i can't get the vsync off in game and they don't have a vsync setting for in there either.

 

I think we all know that Nvidia handles tesselation better than AMD, that's a given. Without wanting to sound rude or biased at all, I think that the price tag of the Nvidia's can produce a certain amount of placebo effect for their owners

 

I think everyone here has a little "justifying purchase" remorse...lol. Fortunately I didn't have to pay for my SLI or CF(converted to SLI) config
Don't get me wrong, the 6990M CF is a great mutli GPU setup. Especially for the price. I've seen the 2 side by side running the same games with FRAPS. Based of my SLI solution coming out on top everytime, I made the decision to upgrade(580M SLI) our other M18x. We are all enthusiast here at heart. I'm just conveying what I've come to know with real results from both camps that I've seen with my own eyes.

 

I guess your lucky buddy, most people have to make the choice of actually forking out the cash to get 580 Sli and therein lies the rub. Would you (if you had've had to pay for your gpu's) pay more than double the cost for "sometimes" a small gain (10%) or do you take a more affordable route and enjoy equivalent perfomance with a slight OC.

Undoubtedly the 580's are monsterously good but are they worth it? - not IMHO and I certainly dont see how they (580 Sli) can provide better IQ (over and above the 6990 or other gpu) on the same internal screen as thats the component mainly responsible for IQ, right?

 

more like peer pressure than anything!

me, i don't fold to peer pressure. i buy what i want.

dont care how many people say buy amd..if that's the case..go buy a cheaper laptop since this one is clearly over priced from the get go..

 

So what is your verdict John? - I know you are mainly interested in the numbers and crunching out the benches but what would you say regarding the average users "experience" of either setup? - noticeably better for either? - main benefits? ... you have had both like Skygunner, can you see such a "night and day" difference as he does?.....I am sure lots of people would be keen to hear!

(I know its slightly OT btw....just interested to hear your opinion)

 

Agreed buddy. We all want the best setups. I am made up for you that you are happy with the current rigs in your household. In the words of Spock, may they live long and prosper!

 

since we removed some of the throttling...yes, but in games that max at 60 fps like rage..nope. they are dead even. when i ran crysis 1.. it had a 10 fps lead in benching, but game play was allot smoother. even when benching vantage and everyone knows how it does a serious slow down on jane nash right when you first enter the tunnel..with nvidia that part and others like it are far smoother..but again..nvidia has far more stuttering due to clocks switching from p0 to p1. 2033 ran better as well. (again, only with most of the throttling taking out - before this..oh hell to the no!) i have a few more games to run through to see. don't get me wrong...i loved my 6990's allot due more so to price, but would also say..who cares about a few more fps for the money.

but these nvidia's stay far cooler and for one..i didn't need dice to break records. that alone is a major plus! in my book.

 

Thanks for your opinion John. Im with you on the score of a few more FPS for the difference....I also know that you are the master of benching and therefore have run both setups to their max. Its obvious from viewing your results that the 580m setup takes the benching crown without a doubt....in terms of a day to day use, you wouldnt run any setup like that 24/7 for FPS.

I can see already the addiction to benching, pushing your system as far as it will posibly go in every direction. I may well be asking for your assistance and tuition in the future once I am more comfortable in cranking out some results.

Congrats on those records btw...absolutely awesome results....Ive been watchin' in awe of your work for quite some time, what with the elaborate cooling setups & pics etc....way to go to punch out some figures! BIG +rep.

When you say cooler, how much cooler?...what kinda temps are you looking at with those 580's? (stock without additional cooling)- I am always interested in comparisons of my rig vs. other setups and seeing what I can do to positively improve my own system.

 

i may have to retract that temp statement...i forgot i was playing a 1 gpu game...lol
ill give a better account of this in a bit.

edit:
looks like they generate heat as well..did a 800c/1600s/1800m = 89C/85C max on top of the desk sitting on the nxzt. room is 92F. no fan control and only stock fans.
max fans 85C/79C

 

Under load my keyboard gets warm, but that's OK. Because I live in Alaska.

 

mine does as well.

 

I ran a few benches while I was converting my fiance's M18x from 6990M CF to 580M SLI, to avoid taking the laptop apart again incase something went wrong. While running the benchmark I touched the heat sink under the ASD keys and singed my finger tip...lol. These badboys run hot! It's amazing how little heat is felt through the keyboard.

 

100 watts of heat is a lot : p

next gen is looking really nice though, ivy bridge desktops are 77w parts so we may see 35 watt/45 watt/55 watt mobile parts

gpus at 28nm should be able to only consume 75 watts total and still be faster by quite a bit

 

Nice. Is it true that Ivy Bridge is compatible with our current motherboard? If so I guess the next step would be bios
As soon as this is a reality, I'll have a 2960XM & 2920XM forsale.

 

current word is that h67m wont support ivybridge but i honestly think dell can make it possible.

 

I'm sure Dell will release something in the near future though I wouldn't count on a fix that doesn't throttle at least somewhat. Community vbios will likely remain the best solution for sometime to come. As for the upgrade, well Dell sent me two busted M18x's so they finally made it right by sending me a new upgraded one from the factory. Thanks to @DellCares on twitter.

 

What do you think Dell's reason is to include a throttle? AC adapter limitation?
What was wrong with your 2 busted M18x's?

I'm glad your back in the threads. I've followed your posts from Asus to Alienware.

 

throttle started with nvidia and was past on to the manufacture. if they wanted to enable or disable it. im thinking it's hard coded on the card, but can be controlled by the vbios or software...just like the desktop version....but that's my own speculation.

 

Interesting. Maybe Dell will shed some light on the matter, in the near future.

 

hey guys!

can anyone help me? i tried to run battlefield 3 with driver 285.62 and i always freeze!

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033

Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: 116
BCP1: FFFFFA800D4454E0
BCP2: FFFFF880108B0AE4
BCP3: FFFFFFFFC000009A
BCP4: 0000000000000004
OS Version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 256_1

Files that help describe the problem:
C:\Windows\Minidump\102511-10483-01.dmp
C:\Users\I\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-24757-0.sysdata.xml

Read our privacy statement online:
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C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt

what happened? can anyone help me? im dying to play bf3 but it always freezes.

im gonna install new vbios from dell
Drivers and Downloads
lets see how it goes..

but please anyone please pm me or reply me on this problem

 

looks like i was right here...

 

Yes you were. Everyone from both sides displayed a high level of knowledge & patience. I really think it went well. It's kinda cool to know that we had the full attention of Dell's Engineer in charge of mobile platforms. That really says alot about the people Dell employ.

Hopefully we can get that A05 bios soon. I tried flashing to A03 from USB and it did not fix the Latency. After A05 is released I'm not updating again. A03 was perfect.

 

yes it did. and the fact that they even quoted stuff.

if we can get this other fix in place...i think we should be good to go. not what everyone wanted to hear..but a decent fix non the less.
but the timing switch will still need to be made to switch even faster i suspect.

the way to tell is to over clock p0 by one mhz then monitor from dual display.
and see if it's a jerky transition.

 

He mentioned alot of things posted in this forum. It's official. Dell really does monitor the threads.

 

that they did. and yes they do.

 

of course "they" do. for some time now...