580m vs 6990m Benches

Probably completely irrelevant to throttling, but is PowerMizer disabled?

 

No offence taken bud. I'm saying this based on the review posted by Notebookcheck.net:

"After thoroughly testing our dual-GPU setups, we conclude that the gap between them is around 5% (average from all benchmarks) and that the GTX 580M SLI from Nvidia is the fastest dual-GPU system currently available"

so 5% from their testings and if we add % increase in the new drivers we are looking at an even more evident winner. Facts are facts, that doesn't make the 6990 bad by any means... in fact the article even says:

"Still, the AMD setup also has a lot to offer, for example, from a price-to-performance perspective, the AMD Radeon HD 6990M CF configuration is far more attractive than its Nvidia counterpart; that is if price even matters to consumers shopping in this category"

Sure with Overdrive 6990 come close even with aggressive OC they perform even better that stock 580M but 580M can also OC and with the flashable BIOS feature they become even more attractive to the OC'ers.... Problem is they aren't popular due to pricing and not many hardcore OC here in this forum to push these cards like they push the 6990 (I'm for one sacred to go past 724 lol)

Hope this clarifies my post and by no means I was attempting to start a war with you bud

 

580m SLI 3Dmark 11

This is overclocked. The throttle ruins any and every expectation I had for these cards. Going back to 6970m Xfire.. at least I pulled an 8k with that <_<

 

with throttling...these cards are not the clear winner at any thing. that's like buying a new car and the governor is set at 60 MPH. i been waiting to see if this was going to be fixed any time soon(because i wanted some 580m's), but it looks like not yet. so paying an extra 700 bucks to throttle is not worth it. considering damn near everyone is running over clocked gpus as stock. (even though they can run at stock no throttling) personal option only.

if this was about stock...then no need to try and find fixes, right?

 

While it sucks not to be able to benchmark these cards to show their true power, it is a non issue for me at all as they destroy every game I throw at them. At the end of the day that's why I have an SLI setup, I could care rats about benchmarks when the dust settles.

 

Not going to be able to convince the one true champion of OC... Then again get the 580M and you'll probably be able to experiment for yourself.

 

nah, not just yet...i been waiting on you guys to get that figured out. i tend to get tired of being the test dummy all the time...lol.

they are great cards with a far greater potential....

 

That's the thing, there's only one Lionel Messi of the M18x Overclock and he plays for AMD, I will bet money if you get the 580M you will destroy everything mobility has ever seen (i mean it, it takes dedication and a lot of cojones to OC)

I'm sure you can probably hold the record with 6970 or 480's lol

 

Xen. not sure how those drivers will pan out ... but if they do 580s are probably be on top ... the quote about the 5% however is inaccurate .... as I noted the actual difference in fps between the 2 cards is 1.1%.

 

I believe there are some other things wrong with the notebookcheck.net benchmarks in addition to the percentage issue. Unigine heaven for example on my M18x with the same settings as the notebookcheck run, gets 84.4 FPS at stock clocks. I think the 74 fps they are getting is rather low. I am not sure if it is because overdrive was disabled or for other factors.

 

Your 84fps aren't legit.... 74fps is pushing it, for 580 or 6990... I think it's more long the lines of 65.

 

Final attempt at reality testing here.

Facts: Notebookcheck.net is not often the most accurate. Heck the 6970 played higher fps than the new 6990 in SC2 and COD:BO? lol..

Fact: The 580M is gimped right now due to throttling.

Speculation: Given the temps of the 580m and it's overall architecture; it SHOULD outperform the 6990 and OC even better.

Fact: I have done a few tests with another forum member with relatively identical systems except I have 6970 (ooohh sooo old) and the 6990 in Metro2033 and the difference at stock and OC was 2FPS on the dot. 2.

The reality is 10% is only a few FPS in games. At a measely resolution of 1900 by 1080, 2 cards (granted they are mobile) are plenty for today's and tomorrows games. Most likely the 5870CF still is VERY viable. VERY.

Strong speculation: Mobile GPU's are accelerating faster than ever and therefore AMD/Nvidia and performance makers are capitalizing on it. Expect 7 series GPU's to be out in less than a year that will blow away the performance of these GPU's (bigger than 5870 to 6990). It is on an entire new FAB process.

Arguing over a few FPS on systems relatively "locked" compared to desktops is really futile. Guys like Johnkiss, DRE650 and people that truly know how each process functions and how each process affects other processes are really the only people that should be OC'ing "hardcore." Raising FSB is one thing. But manipulating TDP, decreasing voltage to increase X, decreasing X to increase Y, is very specific and should be done only by those that are capable to do so.

Running SLI/CF systems in desktops with much more powerful cards is NEEDED because they likely run at much higher resolution. Really the 6990 Vs 580M is a pointless debate because they are that close. This is starting to sound like a freaking "Xbox Vs PS3" system wars discussion on a console board....something PC gamers hate. Desktops are different and you have soooooo much more headroom because you have so much more heat dissipation, customization (watercooling, extra fans, and easily accessible components). Laptops are not meant for this. We get extreme options from the factory but there is very little we can do outside of running a few nubby programmes to squeeze a higher 3dmark which is really only like 1500 at most which is...meh when it comes to gaming.

 

@1280x1024, No AA and 1x AF? What am I doing wrong? I run it twice this morning and I got 84.4 and 83.something FPS? Those are the settings Notebookckech.net had.

Are you sure you read the settings the benchmark was run at on Notebookcheck.net (so that we are on the same page)?

 

this is simply not accurate on notebookcheck. i ran fraps benchmark on the same openening sequence. i pressed the benchmark button as soon as the sub sequence started and stopped as soon as the alien ship finished it's attack on the marines floating on the water. i averaged 54 fps on my 6990m overclocked to 825 core / 1000 mem and with 11.8 drivers (and they also used the same drivers). this is a 45% increase on my cards and even if you take out the 15% overclock that is still 30% higher than their benchmark.

i then benchmarked normal play when you first picked up the empty gun and navigated to the point of opening your first door on the roof to reveal NY in ruin. i averaged 58 fps as well.

all settings were ultra and with high res enabled. it just looks like xfire was not running properly for their test or something. i probably know what happened. there is a bug in crysis 2 and xfire where xfire won't scale properly unless you change the graphical settings back and forth. so if their settings were set to ultra they would have needed to set them back to extreme and then back to ultra for xfire to start scaling.

the nvidia cards are 15% slower than my overclocked cards. if you take away the 15% overclock the cards are neck and neck here. it is not accurate for them to state a fluid game experience as i also played this same sequence fluidly and without any multi-gpu microstutter.

 

although i do not think you would continue to run the games on overclocked GPU's though... and i think thats what they are trying to get at.

 

my gpu overclocks are always 100% stable

they can be taken to over 850 core and still pass every benchmark and every game but not crysis 2 in ultra settings. use crysis 2 to determine stability. crysis 2 forced me to go from 850 core down to 825 core to eliminate artifacts in that game and to ensure factory stability.

 

+rep.

I WANNA KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS 7 SERIES! EDUMACATE ME!

blah... for some reason for me, i wouldnt feel safe OC-ing anything over 15 mins..

 

i'll rep you the first chance i get!
this reminds me of the 9800 days as well.

 

hehe roger that. My rep says "he is just really nice." LOL. I am nice....but not REALLLY nice

3demons....thanks for the rep too. I don't really know anything others don't already know about the 7 series AMD. Specs are leaked for the desktop cards; probably not legit. However, the leaked specs actually look a bit weak IMO. Shrinking the fab to 28nm is no joke. That really allows for a lot more...well everything. If I am not mistaken, when consoles start to mature they sell "slim versions." Part of the reason is due to a shrink in die. Therefore, even when running the same GPU/CPU, it allows for a much cooler system..and quieter as the fans don't have to work so hard.

Now with PC's, that example means "Crap to a tree." We want a lower fab process so we can grow the CPU/GPU experience. More transistors, more shaders, more efficient architectural designs; therefore leading to a much more powerful card. Expect DX11 to run very smoothly with the new GPU's coming out.

With that said, the notebook market is the fastest growing market; much outselling desktops. It is now very WISE to invest enormous amounts of money; copious amounts in the notebook GPU/CPU sector. We are seeing CPUs running with the best of desktops; which was never really the case. Two high end notebook GPU's are keeping up with almost a top tier desktop GPU.

In a few years, I predict notebook GPU's may start to come out FIRST as it makes more financial sense and greater ROI to the makers. There will ALWAYS be desktops; but they will very more niche than they already are.

In 2004, I had a Dell XPS with an MR9800. That thing had....just wait...8 pixel pipelines! That doubled it's successor and ran Far Cry at decent FPS at around 720p. However that quickly got outdated and there were NO upgrade options no MXM etc. I had a few other desktops/notebooks in between but lets fast forward to 2008.

That is only 3.5 years ago. I had a m15x with an 8800mGTX. That was awesome to a gamer as it ran dx10 much better than the 8700gt and doubled it's performance. Now look at the current bests....6990s in CF or 580s in SLI.....That is way more powerful. My 8800GTX and Penryn 2.5ghz processor got a score of almost exactly 10k in 3dmark06. The benches are WAY Crazier on our new systems. However I could play COD MW2 at highest settings. I could play Crysis on high. So even though there are way more powerful systems, it doesn't mean the system can't game relatively well. That is why benching is really only to check a measure of relative performance and to make sure your system is running properly and in relative comparison to other systems. I don't check how many FPS I got on "this level"; rather just check my CPU speed, my GPU's to make sure they are reading the right OC clocks and then I exit. I then look at HWinfo to make sure my temps are below 90 and examine the diodes like memIO to make sure that is in range as it gets hot!

I then STFU and go game...which is exactly what I am gonna do now Peace out.

 

Do you think that the 580M throttling is going to be a problem in the future when games take more horsepower to run?

 

Who knows really.... But Nvidia is not about to see their sales die because of this is what I think, so if they do become an issue in the future I believe they will fix it. That said it looks like they are already looking into it due to high number of complaints (Nvidia Forums)

 

Toms Hardware has some results up. Looks like a win for Nvidia.

GeForce GTX 580M SLI Vs. Radeon HD 6990M CrossFire : Flagship Mobile Graphics Go Head-To-Head

 

Wow great read! I'm gonna have to say they didn't experience any throttling, which is becoming evident that this may be an Nvidia/Dell sort of agreement, one which should probably be fixed!

Those are some impressive numbers by Nvidia both 580M and 485M, I would call that fake if it wasn't from the trusted source... Quite frankly I'm yet to see the difference he claims.

 

I respect tom's hardware review so ill read this article very closely.

 

4 games tested... 3 are TWIMTBP

 

good read, but does this mean (in the review) that the desktop 6990 is more powerful than the desktop 580? just curious

 

It is indeed.... 6990 is a dual GPU single card solution, so it really goes head to head with 590 gtx.

 

Yea Xeneize he/they must have something going on well over there, no throttle or whatever... Maybe different cards ? Not sure, the article does mention that the 6990s are custom designed for Eurocom ... ?

But that is a HUGE leap in performance, and it actually puts the 485GTX over the 6990 ... which doesn't make very much sense to me ... It also only gives a 3% increase to the 6990 over the 6970 ... also not making much sense.

Tom's is quite a trusted source though, so I am not sure what to make of it ... but putting the 580s almost 25% better then the 6990s ... just doesn't seem accurate in any way what so ever.

 

Actually when you read closer and focus on 1080 resolutions the gap isn't as big. I also think that maybe this actually shows that a more powerful CPU benefits the 580M more... which is sort of irrelevant given that most people that buy a gaming laptop would probably stay away from a desktop processor.

He also failed to run 3DMark or Heaven Dx11. that would have been a good test and while we are at it he did not even run Metro 2033 (his excuse sucked) where AMD holds a lead, specially with the .26 drivers used with Nvidia.

Honestly, after educating myself a great deal, the gaps aren't as evident in a true mobile platform which is what the M18x is.


My assessment today is that while 580M show great potential, as we stand today there is virtually no difference between these two cards with a sandy bridge platform...... I will say that, IF and WHEN they remove the throttling, I think the 580M will definitely shine.

 

I have some noob question
580M have less GPU clock and 6990M and even 6970M so how come they are faster (580m - 620MHz vs 6990M 715MHz and 6970M 680MHz)
not really understand this

 

The specs are irrelevant since they are different components all together.... At the end of the day it's FPS what really matters

 

no don't worry about a noob question but honestly the best way to understand this is a noob response; they are based on completely different architectures which ultimately is the most important aspect of gaming; "how they DELIVER information and vice versa." So clocks are just one very tiny component to consider. You can't even look at the number of shaders as they are also completely different.

 

I think you are completely right Xen. If the Throttling gets solved I may have to consider an upgrade, although at that point I guess I should just wait for the 7K series to come out which would be cheaper then the upgrade most likely.

I also didn`t know what `TWIMTBP`meant, ... had to look it up. Not sure how Nvidia optimized these games are, but from what I have read TWIMTBP games can cripple AMD GPUs artificially and on purpose ???

I wish there were any kind of solution to the voltage on the 6990s ... I need more VOLTS !!!

Well well, we will see some impressive shizznat if you guys handle that throttle issue.

 

Right and if it doesn't get fixed chau Nvidia hello 7000 series, at the end of the day I wear no green/blue shirts.... I wear Alienware's shirt

 

I would wait for the 7 series. I don't think the gap between the 6970 and 6990 is 3% as testing with similar systems and games shows about 5-10% (outliers aside). It is interesting how Crysis runs better on very high with AA with the 6970 then then 6990; they didn't comment on that . I would assume when more demanding newer titles hit; the extra shaders will come into play. But it's pretty close as they are on the same architecture. 7 Series is on 28nm fab and an entire new architecture. Those are going to be super sweet. I would advise anyone with CF 6970/6990 to wait and not upgrade to Nvidia SLI. It's a tremendous investment with little ROI; especially after an already purchased initial investment with high depreciating value. IMO of course. But there isn't ONE game out that doesn't run high/ultra at native resolution right now, so by the time there are....we have 7 series

 

I think of buy new M18x with 2960XM OC too but then I think I should wait for 7 series
anyone know when I will release?

 

Probably no less than 6 months from now....

 

key word "no less than" LOL
I now fighting with my inner evil who rush me to buy new one LOL

 

It has been rumored in many places that we wont see it until Q1 2012 (or spring) so we are roughly looking at that timeframe. But no one really knows... Business wise, they just released a very high profile product that's selling very well (6990), so you better believe they arte going to ride that wave for as long as they can.

 

so do you think it's good idea to buy new one with 2960XM OC and 6990M CF?

 

The best idea if you want to play BF3, Skyrim or even Diablo 3 before everyone else is done with them

Seriously, when the 7000s comes out you're probably gonna be asking yourself, should I wait for Ivy Bridge..... It never ends, that's why, much like a car, you buy it when you need it without waiting for next years model....

My 2c

 

Found this, interesting read (Even if it is TomsHardware) with both cards running on the same machine.

GeForce GTX 580M SLI Vs. Radeon HD 6990M CrossFire : Flagship Mobile Graphics Go Head-To-Head

Edit: Lol apparently someone beat me to it

 

I don't know about BF3, Skyrim because never play them before but Diablo 3 is the one I waiting everyday ^^!

and you know what, you right. I'll order new system at begin of October ^^!

 

You are going to love it, specially with the support you get from this community

 

I don't doubt that ^^!
I have learn a lot of thing after I know this forum ^^!

 

Yea this place is just awesome ... and your m18x will chew up Diablo 3 ... you could probably run several instances of it simultaneously

 

lmao, i wonder if i can do crossfire between the two (get two cards with 4 GPU's on it )

 

GeForce 285.27 beta guve a 5% to 13% boosts speed in Black Ops, Crysis 2 and many more ganes.

GPU Wars: Nvidia vs. ATI: GeForce 285.27 beta boosts speed in Black Ops, Crysis 2, more

 

yeah lol we were all over that within 5 mins of posting. those were the first official 580M drivers.

 

hi all!

my gpu 6970m cf. how setup crysis 2 and gta 4 with run crossfire?
i have low fps
crysis 2 = 15-18 fps
gta4 dont work cf

thank you and sorry for english