The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
Yes seriously, 700 points is 700 points. Ask anyone here, 700 points Firestrike GPU is a definite improvement, usually around 4-5FPS overall as can be seen under "Show Result Details" > "Detailed Scores" .
Having combined go from 36 to 39 FPS is obviously much more than only a 3% improvement. Simple math puts 3 FPS out of 36 around 10%. (3 FPS out of 100 being 3%).
I'm not here to reinforce a performance improvement going from Win7 to Win10, simply to rebut your comment about 700 points GPU in Firestrike Normal being something to scoff at, particularly if it's a free improvement.
Here's that 3 FPS difference in Combined that 700 points, from 21k to 21.7k represents:
To put things into perspective, people paid up for GTX 980 over GTX 970 and it's 2k GPU point difference (10.6k to 12.6k) which only reflects a 3 FPS gain in Firestrike Combined, going from 19 to 22 FPS:
700-1k points is also the difference between having the clocks at say 1450MHz and 1550MHz on Titan X / 980 Ti, which is kind of a big deal among the GM200 crowd.
700 points for free totally matters.
Seriously.
Now that out of the way, Mr. Fox has done an extensive analysis showing that Win10 is actually a performance downgrade ATM:
I'll let you know I'm on the way to Mod the actual Dual PSU mod to build a Tri-PSU with 3x330W as 2 are not enough for the system I have. (Believe me it is not enough at 500W one PSU flicker and shut everything down).
I will let you know as soon as I have more info about it.
I would take that additional 980M out and just run it with one 980M and one PSU. Single 980M with your OC is still good for like 13k GPU? Dude, that's more than enough for 1080p. Single card all the way, especially since you can do it with one PSU, it's much more practical in terms of retaining portability etc. But I understand where youre coming from, trying to push the envelope and such.
You are absolutely right that is why the design is going to change to make it able to choose how many PSU you want to use, from one to 3. This is possible by adding 3 connectors to easily take one PSU out or add till 3 (like the one used in Xbox 360 controllers)
It will be possible as well to take one PSU and use it as default (like there is no mod at all).
I will show you all the pics and thing when it's done
Is it possible for you to try a moderate overclock with just a single power brick see whats the best overclock you can achieve ?
For those of us that 2 power bricks is not an option but still have 980ms sli.
I would like to hold +100 on core and +300 on memory with 4.3 overclock cpu with voltage vid(13)
If mobile I would take a single overclocked to the hilt 980M via single PSU over 980M SLI on default clocks with 2-3 PSU's any day of the week.
13k GPU is more than adequate to push all games in existence with the R2's 60Hz 1080p display.
Best have your cake and eat it too set-up, which I believe Nikos is going for, is to run overclocked-to-the-hilt 980M SLI at home outputting to an external 2560x1440 display, ideally either Acer's Predator or Asus' ROG Swift (what I have), both G-Sync panels that do 144Hz and then simply revert to single 980M via Control Panel, retaining the serious overclock yet only requiring a single PSU while on the go.
one power brick should be able to handle 2 980ms @ stock or with moderate overclocks. Why use a single one? I would rather have the sli power there if i need it. you can never have enough
it depends on your 330W power brick I'm going to do a tri-psu mod because of that. One PSU is able to give almost 500W other can't hit 300 W (it powers off around 240-280).
So I don't know but normally no. I don't think it can handle those clocks.
Yes well actually this is a great case of too much of a good thing being detrimental to the stability of and defeating the primary function of a particular system: mobility (spoiler follows).
Having recently moved from 2x 780 Ti SLI to a single aggressively overclocked 980 Ti on my desktop I can tell you that the performance is far better with a strong single card.
SLI is having some issues at the moment, with newer games showing extremely poor scaling (50%) accompanied by stuttering or what the following youtuber describes as "frame timing".
Allow me to elaborate, coming from 680M SLI I was under the impression that stuttering was a bi-product of low FPS, that it only occurred when the frames dipped down into the 30-40 FPS region. Having recently acquired Dragon Age: Inquisition on sale I was completely dismayed to experience stuttering at 90 FPS. After EXTENSIVE troubleshooting, and I mean I tried everything, I narrowed down the phenomenon to SLI. This was one of the final nails in the coffin in SLI for me, prompting me to upgrade to GM200 now that the cost has come down to a semi-sane level (Titan X was ridiculously overpriced). Now, returning to the same scene in DA: I, I'm still seeing 90 FPS, but the stutter is completely gone.
Just within the last year, here is a list of titles that I've had to disable SLI for:
Planetside 2
Titanfall
Wolfenstein: New Order
The Evil Within
Dragon Age: Inquistion
And now, here's what scaling looks like with recent titles, the math is funny but 150% means 50% more frames whereas anyone would reasonably expect an improvement of at least 80-90% with the additional card in SLI:
That's terrible scaling. No mention of how smooth and stutter-free the experience is for the games that don't exhibit poor scaling either, i.e. DA: I.
The performance to efficiency ratio is also extremely relevant on my end as well. If I were to attempt to add a second 980 Ti I would be in the same boat as you guys with the 330W PSU, I would be faced with either running them at default clocks (19k GPU vs 21.5k GPU single, 35 vs 38k SLI) or upgrading my perfectly fine and only a year old Corsair RM850 to a 1kW-1200W PSU for around $200.
The entire point of doing so is also valid on my end, just as you don't need 980M SLI to push your native display, I don't need 980 Ti SLI to push my native display, a 144Hz G-Sync 2560x1440 Asus ROG Swift. With a single 980 Ti at 1540MHz I'm seeing 90-120FPS in all of my games completely maxed out (sans MSAA, no need for that at this resolution).
Do you really need 980M SLI? No, not unless your external display is of the aforementioned variety.
A single card system with a robust overclock is better than a multi-card system with default clocks.
A single 980M is capable of GTX 780 Ti performance (with 8GB of VRAM) of or about 12-13k GPU Firestrike Normal correct? Default clocks 980M is good for about 10k GPU single and maybe 17k GPU SLI?
Yeah I would take the 13k GPU single card system, without the presence of frame timing, potential absence of SLI support, poor scaling and loss of mobility over a meager 4-5k GPU improvement with unseen potential requiring and additional PSU (or two).
There are other issues as well, going from 2x 780 Ti SLI has dropped total system load on my RM850 from 750-800W (CPU load dependent, i7 4930k seldom sees more than say 40% load but does have a 160-180 TDP at 100% load) to 450-500W (780 Ti TDP was 325W each, 980 Ti at 1540MHz with PT at 125% is around 350W). That's 300 less watts of heat being pumped into my room at the height of summer, where ambient can get up to 80F, that's 300W less consumption on my power bill, and running any PSU at 100% load will dramatically shorten it's lifespan.
Less heat, less power consumed, longer PSU lifespan. These are all additional things to consider before jumping on the 980M SLI band-wagon.
One of the final things to consider is cost. 980M is still going for $800. This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't care if it's 780 Ti performance on something the size of a credit card. You can have 980M SLI performance on a single card for $700 (GTX 980 Ti)!
I will summarized the argument against 980M SLI with the following, if youre only pushing the native display and not a 144Hz G-Sync 1440p panel, say Acer's Predator or Asus' ROG Swift, you absolutely do not need 980M SLI.
If you can afford 980M SLI, you have two (or three) PSU's on hand, you don't mind poor scaling and the occasional game with no SLI support or stuttering, you absolutely need 980M SLI as you have a 144Hz 2560x1440 external display (980M SLI is still inadequate for 4k, this is the purview of 980 Ti SLI, and the same argument above applies to 980 Ti SLI) then yes, 980M SLI is something to consider.
980M SLI for 1080p @ 60Hz is simply retarded.
Never go full retard.
PS: If youre at the point where youre thinking about turning your M18x R2 into an actual DTR (Desktop Replacement) then it's time to consider putting together an actual desktop. You can build an entire Z97 desktop (4790k) with a single 980 Ti for under $2500, and that's including a 2560x1440 144Hz G-Sync display, whereas going from say, 780 or 680M SLI to 980M SLI is going to cost you $1600? Yeah that's a no-brainer.
Pro-tip:
If you have spare solid state storage in your M18x R2, say a pair of Crucial MX100 in RAID 0, you can pull one of them and use that as a boot drive on your newly built desktop, reducing the cost further. I think you might actually be able to do a Z97 build with an i7 4790k and 980 Ti for less than $2500 actually.
Case: $100 (I recommend Corsair's Air 540, going for around $100)
Motherboard: $250-300?
PSU: $150-200?
GPU: $700?
Storage: $0-200?
Memory: $200?
Monitor: $550-700 (used ROG Swifts going for $550 on amazon, that's where I bought my "spare", through amazon warehouse deals "cosmetic damage" lol)
Cooling: $150-200 (air cooler or 120mm or 140mm AIO, I personally recommend NZXT's x41, I just swapped out my Corsair H60 and H55 for a pair of x41's and my CPU load temps dropped from 80 to 72C and GPU load from 50 to 44C.)
vs.
980M SLI: $1600 (or $1700 if you include the cost of the additional 330W PSU)
In fact, if youre going to get an external display ANYWAY (presumably that's why youre even considering 980M SLI)
the cost of 980M SLI, with the additional PSU, is more than putting together an actual desktop!
Another argument for building a desktop; we're probably at the end of the road of forward compatibility with the M18x R2, mobile Pascal may not work for us. If you have a desktop, yorue not facing the same limitation, you will always be able to run newer hardware.
There is also the question of do you want to dump $1600 into a dated chassis when G-Sync has already hit the mobile market with competitors offering 75Hz G-Sync panels being pushed by a single 980M for $2500? Ask anyone here who has experienced G-Sync, it's the real deal, even at 75Hz:
980M is still a fantastic upgrade from 680M and even 780M SLI; I intend to swap out my 680M's for a single 980M when money allows, hopefully that time coincides with Pascal's debut and 980M comes down from it's quite insane $800 asking price.
No. Nikos just said that he's seeing 200W power-draw with a single 980M at 1.3GHz. Extreme CPU pulling down another 100-125W you have no headroom.
Following up on my recommendation in my last post to simply build a desktop if youre in a position financially to even contemplate 980M SLI, here's 980 Ti running at 1540MHz stable with 1.255v with load temps not exceeding 43C:
If youre do go the desktop route and do choose an Air 540 I recommend a pair of NZXT x41's over the 120mm AIO offerings. I also show in the video how to mount said x41 pull fans outside of the case.
I believe that's just the single 980M at 1.3GHz. Single 980M TDP on default clocks is 130W? Adding voltage increases that quite a bit. And then Extreme Processor is another 100-125W? So no way could that be total system power draw.
I see 200W at 1.3GHz within the realm of possibility with increasing core frequency, and the requisite voltage, from 1000 to 1300MHz (30%). If TDP scales with frequency and voltage here then TDP going from say 125W to say 170W is entirely plausible. 200W does seem to be on the high side.
Asking 980M to perform like GTX 980 is also going to require GTX 980 power consumption (165W). It's the same architecture.
After reading through most of this thread, i would like to thank everyone for their hard work. It has really helped someone like me, who is not proficient with computers.
Ordered 980m SLIs for my m18x r2, which will hopefully be arriving next week. If there is anything i can do to help (ie benchmarking) please don't hesitate to tell me.
I will try to make a video showing the power consumption with just 1 GPU working with the CPU overclocked. But 200W-210W the entire system while gaming/benching with the config I posted before (1.3GHz/[email protected] - CPU 4.5 GHz).
Right now while browsing (Chrome) I'm hacing a constant power consumption of 110W-118W:
I'm definitely going to be on the lookout for both the modular tri-PSU setup tutorial and any updates on the vBIOS. I'd rather get it after it's thoroughly tested. Nikos is doing a wonderful job on that front! And thank goodness I saw Mr.Fox's post about problems with the M18x upgrading to Windows 10. My friend upgraded and then reverted back to 8 on his MSI GT80 Titan (yeah, I know), and it killed one of his SSDs.
try the 353.00 look for
@j95 version of the driver. that one worked the best for me, i am using stock vbios tho. got score of 135+++ in fire strike sometimes even 14000
Sorry for asking this as I'm sure it's answered somewhere in all these pages, but has anyone got dual 980Ms working with Windows 7 in the M18X R2?
I might be looking at getting 980Ms, but not sure if I want to have to go with Windows 8. I just love the feel of Windows 7 and not sure if the hassle of upgrading (plus the cost of getting 980Ms and a copy of Windows 8) is worth it.
How is the performance of the 980Ms? I'll be coming from 780M Sli (although one just died on me). I won't be doing the dual PSU mod for a while, so I'll probably just run it on stock clocks or a light OC if I'm able to do it with a 3940XM.
What monitoring apps are you using, if you are using any at all? I'm currently using CPU & GPU meter gadgets to keep an eye on my system. I'll miss those if I decide to go with 8.
This is totally correct. In fact, there is hardly any discernible difference in gaming performance with my M18xR2 with 780M SLI and my Clevo P570WM with 980M SLI. FPS is close to the same and so is the overall experience. Yes, in overclocked benchmarks the hexacore CPU and 980M SLI annihilate the i7 Extreme Quad and 780M SLI. The stock clock of the 980M is near the max stable overclock for 780M, but if I run the GPUs at the same clock speeds the numbers are still really close. Only the core clock speed ceiling being much higher makes the 980M measurably better. With a single GPU machine, this might be more meaningful. I don't know because I don't do much gaming with a single GPU. I only do so in the rare example of a game engine that lacks SLI support.
When I had my Sager 9377 with 980m's I got about the same frame rates as my aw18 with 780m's on my rog swift LCD (1440p/144hz).. Bf4 hovered between 90-120 fps on both machines depending on server/map/amount of players.
dX12 is all speciation right now till we have games coded for dx12 and take advantage of it.
I thought the 980m sli had a good edge over the 780m sli at stock clocks (30-80% depending on title, scaling, drivers etc) as far as gaming goes and so long as you are not cpu bound. Overclocked is obviously a different story as the 980m sli has limited overclocking ability in the M18x R2 (so far)
So long as you are getting 60fps (for those of us with 60hz screens) the experience will be similar seeing as 780m sli and 980m sli are beast enough for everything @ 1080P 60hz. Thats my 2c anyway.
Something to keep in mind, Nikos is using premas upcoming Vbios and he is getting some excellent results and seems like the throttling is fixed.
I believe prema is currently traveling and hope to hear some news on this soon. Something to look forward to for those of us with 980m sli, after they remove this annoying throttling when we try to oc, then im sure 980m sli would would be a noticeable improvement over 780m sli at least benching and demanding games like whitcher 3 ect ect
I certainly hope so. I don't really do much overclocking, but after I get my second 980M, I plan to start working on a dual PSU just to see what these cards can do.
I was starting to get second thoughts about purchasing the 980Ms when I read about the lack of performance difference between them and the 780Ms, but I think in the end I'll be satisfied (besides the fact of having to use Windows 8).
Sorry as I have lost track here with the r2 and 980's. Aren't we seeing issues still with 980m's and latest drivers over the last couple revision with major throttling?
Sorry for asking this, I have been trying to follow this thread but som many people report different results it's hard to tell what's working and what's not.
I actually thought it was pretty funny. It was corny, but I am pretty sure they meant for it to be that way.
Yes, that is totally correct. But, where there was once zero hope and a lot of despair for Alienware 18 owners there is now a reason for hope with Alienware officially supporting the configuration. Perhaps now we will see a BIOS update that fixes the issue with no VGA boot with Maxwell GPU, a solution to having to run pure UEFI (no Windows 7 support) and the insane power throttling problem. With the machine no longer being ignored as an EOL product, their support could be the answer to our prayers in terms of those issues. We are all eager to find out.
Well, it should destroy anything
except for a Clevo P570WM, so there's that, LOL. *Raises Hand* And, if it works right, why the heck not? Remember: Newer is NOT always better... more often than not, it's
not better. In fact, the current trend with new tech has already shown us, regardless of the brand name on the chassis, chances are really huge that it will be a piece of garbage.
Much better to have a 3rd Generation or Haswell Extreme CPU than a crippled BGA wuss machine. So, now instead of having
only two decent SLI machines with a socketed unlocked CPU left on the face of the earth that are acceptable (both of which are Clevos) we have
three again, and one (the Alienware 18) that isn't made out of plastic. What's not to love about that... as long as it works right? *Puts Hand Down Again*
The million dollar question is:
Will it work correctly? We'll find out soon enough, I suppose.
The cooling solution on the aw18 is better than the 9377 from my experience (when I had the 9377) so if I was in the market I would choose the aw18 anyday over the sager/clevo. I have preached it for months the build quality is unmatched on the aw machines, fit and feel and cooling. Simply unmatched IMO by anything on the market aside form the r2 of course.
Looking cute and running like garbage is not my idea of a bargain.
That's like you having a super clean Bentley GT sitting in your driveway with a messed up motor and transmission. Yes, looks great, but you getting beat in traffic by a Yugo, not so great.
And it sits there unfixed because no one knows how to fix it.
Soon we will see DELL's proprietary GTX 980M to sell in sites like Ebay and RJTech. With a dedicated vbios it's a new chance for us to test it again in the older Alienware machines like M18X-R1 and R2 and the new 18(2013). I hope it works just fine just like the 780M do in Windows(including the W7) and without the need for UEFI in BIOS.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
![[IMG]](images/storyImages/c2i6W1K.png)
![[Nikos]](images/avatars/[Nikos])
