*Official Alienware M18x AMD CrossFire Discussion Thread (re: Dell/AW Conference Call)*

I think you and Joker could both be correct, depending on circumstances that may vary between different systems. There could be differences between some of the AMD cards (either by design or defect) that interacts with the EC revisions in a different manner than others. I think it may have been on the 6990 Overheating thread it was identified that some of the AMD cards in the M18x have different vendor ID information than others, some even were found to have fewer shaders than others, etc. Dell has already noted that there were some defective 6990M modules in production, so it is plausible that some systems may function normally regardless of the motherboard revision, while others may not.

 

Guys, I have the same issue with the fans, and I do not know which revision I have (probably Revision G), but I basically talked my way through a motherboard replacement, along with a gpu, fan replacement and keyboard mousepad alignment (it came faulty with a mouse click dented). Would this work? Or should I just return it? tomorrow will be my last day of the 21 day period. This has been more than a hassel. Its funny how the alienware tech support agents are giving me no other solutions than to use HWiNFO64. Any tips would be appreciated.

 

And for the 1136+ revisions, the problem is irrelevant of bios version or is it in relation to specific bios versions? Would it help to update nuroo's table with the bios version each one of us is using?

 

Not fan or temp related but, as we have a conference call / agenda to discuss with Dell, one other slight niggle I just thought of is when switching between gfx. Unless you disable CCC at startup, you get an annoying pop-up when swapping to IGP.

Something of nothing really but thought I would toss that one in the mix!

 

It is truly a legitimate point, and it causes undue concern for some folks that are not technically savvy. However, I don't know of any way around that CCC error during startup on the IGP other than to manually disable it. Dell should have it disabled from the factory in the original configuration, but that customization tweak would only last until the first driver update. We can certainly raise that issue with Louis.

Alienware owners want/need the latest and greatest drivers for gaming and I see that as an AMD driver design flaw. There is no reason or need for CCC to run in the background and AMD's sloppy driver design is responsible for making it do so by default. I used to disable that before I even owned an M18x simply because I disable all autorun programs (except for security software) on all computer systems that I own or use. There's just no need for an app to run except on demand. That said, I don't think AMD contemplated CCC trying to launch on systems without AMD hardware (and when running on IGP the AMD hardware is basically invisible to the system).

What would be better is to not have the IGP or the discreet graphics cards "vanish" at any point in time. But, then we would not have 4-5 hour battery life capabilities. Putting them into a low power idle state with the IGP becoming the active display adapter might drop it to 2-3 hours (which is still decent).

Personally, I am more interested in a gaming system than I am battery life. While I certainly do like the awesome battery run time on the IGP, I would be equally pleased to see the graphics switching go away forever if that meant a more stable gaming system. Battery life is better suited to systems built around the concept of compromise, like single GPU models that are smaller, cheaper, and less powerful--not the flagship gaming beast. People that buy those systems are OK with compromise and mediocre gaming performance.

 

Hi,

For all the people here with cold-boot overheating issue, in case anyone doesn't know yet there is a simple temporary solution for now. Which is to load the default BIOS settings at start up (pressing F2 when Alienware head logo pops up, F9 to load bios default, and F10 to save and apply).

This has been working great for me, fixes temp and fan issue, however you HAVE to do this EVERY TIME you start your laptop when using the 6990 GPU. The problem will still come back after complete shut down, sleep and hibernate in my case. At least with this solution, people that are not much of tech expert like me, don't have to risk using HWinfo64 and manually adjust the fan. Just apply this simple solution to avoid the problem. It works for me and I hope It works with everybody else, at least it has helped with some people in this forum and that's why I'm rewriting it.

You don't need to do anything when you're switching back to IntelHD; only when switching to/are using the 6990 GPU. Maybe this information can also be useful to dell in identifying the problem? Why is it fixed only after loading BIOS setup. It's weird that I've never changed anything with my BIOS setup yet setting it to default can fix the issue.

 

yeah, that's basically the same thing joker is saying with the cold boot...only difference...yours has more steps..

 

Why this workaround actually helps in many cases is something that Louis may be able to shed some light on during our call. (There are no visible BIOS setting that one would expect to make a difference, but there are hidden settings that may be the culprit.)

It's sort of the same, but not exactly if you stop to think about it. Knowing that setting BIOS defaults at a cold boot is having the same advantageous effect as going through a cold boot, then rebooting, could be useful information. I would prefer entering the BIOS from a cold boot and setting/saving defaults over rebooting. I would also be curious about WHY manually setting defaults helps and WHY the settings don't stick. I would also be interested in knowing if either of those tactics are triggering a different behavior from the AMD cards or something is cuckoo with the motherboard, or both.

 

Mr. Fox: Can you add nuro's ongoing list of defective/working systems with their revisions to the first post? Would be an easy way for all of us to track.

 

Thanks for the info. F2 1136 Working perfectly. It was extremely hard to see. The sticker was barely visible. Your camera wouldn't have been able to get that pic where my sticker is.

On Nvidia hardware you don't get that error pop up. I also would like to see up to date drivers from Dell for AMD/Nvidia hardware.

 

I will. Let me get my mobo info and add it to that list.

 

just complied
Nicholaus.rossi has Rev. F2 1136 <-- has problem ****
un1b4ll has Rev. F2 1136 <-- has problem ****
torgars has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
nuroo has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
mert361 has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
djskorch has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
FredFlint has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
vanhausse has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
5150Joker has Rev. G2 1142 <-- has problem


Aikimox has has Rev. E2 1116 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
Shaden has Rev. F2 1123 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
vzachari has F2 1127 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
bumbo2 has Rev. F2 1131 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
reborn2003 Rev. F2 1131 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
Zero989 has Rev. Rev F2: 1136 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down. ****
steviejones133 has Rev. Rev F2: 1136 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down. ****
5150Joker(2) has Rev. E? ???? <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.

**** = with some having 1136 good and some having 1136 bad

Basically. Good Rev 1116-1131 < rev 1136 > Bad after Rev. 1136-

 

What's weird is that my system was built new from the factory as a replacement and sent on 10/10/11. While adding my 2960XM(from Dell), WirelessHD module, Intel 6300 and applying ICD on the CPU & GPU(the next day) and ordering/installing screws(they forgot 2 of them) for the right 580M to be mounted, I noticed a lot of dust all over the motherboard. At the time I thought, wow that's a lot of dust for a brand new system. Carefully with the help of my Kirby Sentria I removed ALL of the dust.....strange....

All of the motherboards that I have ever received as replacement parts have always been problematic in some way. With all the dust that was on the motherboard of my new replacement system it makes me wonder if they always use new parts.

 

You should add my name on the list, just got my second system in the mail 3 days ago 11/3 and it came out of the box with the same problem that I returned and ordered new hoping to fix.

 

im sry what is your motherboard rev.?

u are having the issue correct?

 

They are gonna need your motherboard revision found underneath the bottom cover below the ram slots. I wanna be added to the list

 

Thank for the Hwinfo64 info nuroo; please add me too: RPG1201 F2 1139 <-- has problem (Vanhausse Fix works here too!)

 

It has already been determined that the problem is not just the Fans right? Because on a friends of mines the fans 4 thin wires to the connector were not wired right and they would stay off or on the lower speed.

 

ok i'll put u both on my list.

At this point i'll let Mr. Fox make master list on first page, with additions because if i make new post everytime, thread will get huge.

 

Pretty sure its the same as yours nuroo, same cpu so its probably the f2 1139

 

palolo808, here u go from 5150Joker. His post is on the 14th page of this thread with a pic

 

Can you put me down with F2 1136 580M SLI working? I think it's important to show that the same boards with Nvidia are NOT having this problem.

 

Any bit of info will be helpful to engineers I'm sure. It would be good to have all motherboard revisions with nvidia cards as a reference.

 

Done

Added

Thank you, buddy! +1 Rep. Here is the updated list. I will add it to the first post in a slightly different format.

Nicholaus.rossi has Rev. F2 1136 <-- has problem ****
un1b4ll has Rev. F2 1136 <-- has problem ****
torgars has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
nuroo has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
mert361 has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
djskorch has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
FredFlint has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
vanhausse has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
rpg1201 has Rev. F2 1139 <-- has problem
5150Joker has Rev. G2 1142 <-- has problem

Aikimox has has Rev. E2 1116 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
Shaden has Rev. F2 1123 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
vzachari has Rev. F2 1127 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
bumbo2 has Rev. F2 1131 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
reborn2003 Rev. F2 1131 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
Mr. Fox has Rev. F2 1133 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down. (has dead 6990M cards)
Zero989 has Rev F2 1136 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down. ****
steviejones133 has Rev. F2 1136 <-- no coldboot thermal shut down.
****
skygunner27 has Rev. F2 1136 <-- has 580M SLI and "working perfectly"
5150Joker(2) has Rev. E? ???? <-- no coldboot thermal shut down. @5150Joker: can you provide this info for the mobo that worked correctly?

**** = with some having 1136 good and some having 1136 bad

Basically. Good Rev 1116-1131 < rev 1136 > Bad after Rev. 1136-
​

I am going to be curious what Morgotth actually finds when his system is returned from the depot. Although the information he received states his motherboard was replaced, his symptoms are remarkably similar to what I was experiencing until I removed my defective 6990M modules. Unfortunately, we will not know what the revision number was on his motherboard if it was actually replaced.

I now find myself wondering if the F2 1136 and later revision incorporated a new thermal protection feature to shut down by design, even though it may not be working as intended. If so, was that geared toward the 580M throttling problem or something else? I am also starting to wonder if overheating without thermal shutdown is what caused my cards to malfunction. (Thinking back on what was going on, I was having issues with heat and BSOD when the system was idle for extended periods; and serious driver crashing issues, screen dimming, etc. during extended gaming sessions. I also do not remember hearing my fans running under load during gaming as I did on my previous M18x with 6970M CrossFire.) It could be that the fans malfunctioning is a separate problem with the AMD cards that is more pronounced when combined with the newer motherboards and rebooting/loading BIOS defaults temporarily overrides the thermal protection and/or allows the fans to function properly. If any of this speculation has merit, it may be a blessing in disguise that thermal shutdown was occurring because it is preventing damage to the video cards and alerted those affected to an issue that may not have been recognized otherwise.

For the benefit of anyone that may be having trouble identifying the sticker, see the attached thumbnail.

I totally agree... Even though you now have 580M SLI, having your system on the list as a point of reference definitely has merit. ​

@johnksss: what is your motherboard revision with your 580M SLI setup? Maybe we should add that to the list as an additional point of reference as we have with skygunner.

 

I received my m18x back from the depot, and it was banged up on one side, scratched on the lid, and one of the hinges was coming apart, and a lump coming up in the keyboard on the left side. On top of this it blue screened when I started it up.

The tech I got on the phone fixed the blue screen by having me change the HDD configuration to ahci in the bios, and was going to send parts to me to fix the damaged parts. My rep gave me a call shortly after and asked me how my laptop was and I told them exactly what happened, and I was offered and subsequently ordered a new replacement that will arrive on Tuesday the eight.

Ive actually used the current one and it SEEMS to be working ok, and despite the crossfire working and such according to RadeonPro, the fans are acting up. The fan on the right side of the computer doesnt seem to do anything while I hear the left side blasting. The RPM readings on hwinfo64 are very odd as well. I dont know if I should have just accepted the replacement parts, but I guess we will see on Tuesday.

Also I physically put my hand behind both vents and it was clearly not blowing that much on the right side and the left side was just blasting.

 

@Morgotth - man, I am so sorry to hear about what happened. How terrible, my friend. I think the system exchange is the right choice given the rough shape in which it was returned. (Under normal circumstances, I would elect for replacement parts rather than roll the dice on a system exchange.)

Given that you appear to still be having issues with fans, please provide us with your motherboard revision number as a point of reference. I will update the opening post with that information tomorrow.

 

FYI - the opening post for this thread has been updated.

Spoiler

Update #1 - 11/06/2011:

The "Team Red" Panel includes the following individuals, in no particular order of importance:

• Mr. Fox
• djskorch
• Aikimox
• Nicholaus.rossi
• steviejones133
• skygunner27
• mharidas
• johnksss
• nuroo​

This group, as their schedule permits, will attend the conference call as representatives of all affected forum members. (Note: the call has not been scheduled yet. Information about the call will be provided as an update at a later date.) Note that johnksss and skygunner27 were selected as panel members as they both owned one or more M18x equipped with 6990M CrossFire until very recently. Their technical expertise and experience will add valuable perspective even though their current M18x systems are equipped with 580M SLi.

Feel free to PM any of us (and post on the thread) any questions or suggestions concerning the topics for discussion or questions about the conference call. Remember, our primary focus will be AMD 6900M Series issues. However, we hope to have more to talk about than just the overheating problem that is receiving the most attention at the moment. It can be anything AMD-specific.

Update #2 - 11/06/2011:

Although speculative at this point, there seems to be a correlation between motherboard revision numbers and thermal shutdown due to AMD 6990M cards overheating and fans not functioning properly. It is noted that there are quite a few revision numbers on machines that were shipped with a very small window of time (last week of September through October). To location your own motherboard revision number, look for a tag under the bottom cover, situated between the RAM slots and battery interface connection. An image is available here for visual reference.

On the affected units, it has been discovered that the problem is severe when running from a cold boot; but, rebooting causes most of the affected systems to behave correctly. Additionally, entering the BIOS from a cold boot and resetting system defaults produces good results, but likewise, this only corrects the problem until the next system shutdown. It must be repeated at the next cold boot. Below is a list of motherboard revision numbers and system behavior reported by the respective owners. (Send a PM to Mr. Fox if you would like to have your information added to the list.)

Systems Currently Having Issues with Fans and Thermal Shutdown:

Nicholaus.rossi - Rev. F2 1136
un1b4ll - Rev. F2 1136
torgars - Rev. F2 1139
nuroo - Rev. F2 1139
mert361 - Rev. F2 1139
djskorch - Rev. F2 1139
FredFlint - Rev. F2 1139
vanhausse - Rev. F2 1139
rpg1201 - Rev. F2 1139
5150Joker - Rev. G2 1142​

Systems NOT Currently Having Issues with Fans and Thermal Shutdown:

Aikimox - Rev. E2 1116
Shaden - Rev. F2 1123
vzachari - has Rev. F2 1127
bumbo2 - Rev. F2 1131
reborn2003 - Rev. F2 1131
Zero989 - Rev F2 1136
steviejones133 - Rev. F2 1136
5150Joker(2) - Rev. E? ????​

Systems that Will Not POST:

Mr. Fox - Rev. F2 1133 (beeps when powered on - will POST with 6990M modules removed)
Morgotth - Rev. ?? ???? (beeps when powered on - mobo info unavailable - system at Depot)​

Systems with 580M SLI and No Issues (Reference Only):

skygunner27 - Rev. F2 1136​

I have also advised Dell-Bill_B of the "Team Red" panel members and I am awaiting further communication with Bill concerning Louis' availability and scheduling for the conference call. Once a date has been identified that works for the majority of the panel, the opening post will be updated with more information concerning the conference call and discussion topics.

I hope that all of you have a good week.

- Mr. Fox

 

Just to make sure, have you guys tried swapping known good m18x fans into the problematic systems? Not replacement fans, but KNOWN GOOD ones that work fine thermally in another system.

 

@littleone562 - I do not think that anyone has tried swapping out fans at this point. Unless their design is unique to the M18x, the fans are merely mechanical devices and will only react to information received from sensors through the vBIOS and/or motherboard BIOS and do not contain any thermal sensors of their own. The workarounds on the affected systems (rebooting or resetting BIOS defaults) suggest the problem most likely is not directly related to the fans themselves.

That being said, it certainly is possible that the fans on some units were wired incorrectly at the connector as pointed out in a previous post. It would be interesting to know if that has actually occurred on multiple systems that were recently shipped. Unfortunately, most of us do not have direct access to system schematics to validate the fan wiring arrangement and do not have "known good" spare parts available to install for testing.

 

Please add my fiance's M18x with 580M SLI to the list of working perfectly. Her revision is F2 1139.

 

'gunner - done, my friend. Have a good week.

 

Thanks....I was just thinking back when she had 6990M CF. You may recall that I mentioned to you & Stevie that her unit would have random shutdowns at load and while streaming HD youtube videos. After a 580M SLI conversion kit her unit has not had one single unexpected shutdown. I've even beaten Crysis 2, Crysis warhead, Split Second, MW2 & BC2 on it while waiting for my replacement.

You have a good week too. I'm on the fence about catching up on some Anime, watching "In Time" or finishing BF3 before I pickup MW3 at the big bestbuy pre-release opening that starts at 8:00PM AKST.

 

mine was posted on post 147.
f2-1139

but i will say this...this stupid board is having major sata issues!! and it's driving me up a wall.

 

Thanks, bro. I missed that. I just updated the list on the opening post.

Have you already disabled LPM on Port0 and Port1? I had issues with my Crucial M4 SSD refusing to run at SATA III speeds until I did that. Supposedly, that is not necessary, but it would only run at SATA II speeds until I did so. If you have not, the attachment should take care of that problem for you. I also installed the Intel RST 10.6.0.1002 package and it has been smooth sailing since. Hope this helps.

 

im trying to do a fresh install. so no os what so ever. but the sata port keeps dropping out before the install is even started.

never mind...looks like i spoke to soon on these drives...

 

Wow. That is very odd. By "dropping out" do you mean the ports are not recognized by the mobo? If so, I don't think I have ever seen that happen before. What are your BIOS settings for the SATA ports? RAID or AHCI? Have you attempted to set BIOS defaults to see if it changes anything.

If you are installing in RAID0 rather than a single drive, you will need to grab the Intel RST F6 drivers or Windows will not recognize the RAID array/controller. (You probably already know this, but just in case it slipped from memory, I am mentioning it. )

I hope you get this sorted without a replacement part being needed. If motherboard availability is becoming anything nearly as horrible as the video cards, you could find yourself waiting for weeks without any resolution in sight. (If it's not a problem yet, it could soon become one if there is any hysteria about faulty mobo revisions.)

 

what thread should we be talking in? i know it's not this one...lol

sorry <s>batboy!</s> Fox...haha

ps: ill answer your questions in the right thread...which ever that one is..

 

You're right. Let's take it over here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...oubleshooting-discussions-14.html#post8053181

 

jonkss do you have the latest firmware for the drives?

 

Our conversation is now on the thread linked above, as SSD issues are off-topic for this thread.

 

F2 1139 I have the fan problem. Also restarting dosn't always help as it gets to the bios screen it stops working and I have to pull the battery out to start it again.

 

Thanks Gunner. Seems that the supposed "faulty" revision motherboards that are assumed "faulty" from rev.1136 onwards, actually work fine with Nvidia cards......but not AMD.

Seen as I have had nothing but problems on the whole with CCC and AMD in general, I know which "solution" I would prefer out of the two likely possibilities (replacement MB or 580m Sli kit?) as the AMD cards seem to give me other issues aswell such as random horizontal flickering when connected to my U2410 via HDMI (yes, I have tried different cables and this is just flickering on the desktop, not flickering in-game).

 

I'd hate to begin to think what Dell is trying to conjure up via software fix for this problem with AMD cards. The chance of getting a new motherboard replacement is not likely...every part in my M18x is new. There's no way I'm putting refurb parts in.

 

I was also just wondering if everyone whom has the fan issue was currently running on BIOS A04 or A03. If that makes or doesn't make any difference? Perhaps it would be good to also include that info in preparation for the Dell techs.
I know I would happily accept a pair of 580Ms if that fixes the issues lol!

Cheers.

 

A02-A04 bios tried here. Currently on the 'unlocked' A03 bios. I tried messing with the unlocked thermal control features with no luck. I set the fans to hit 100% at 40ºc and they'll do it during bios post, but as soon as Windows loads - no dice.

 

Fox,

I noticed this thread while browsing the forums tonight. While off-topic for this forum, and not AMD-related, it is a prime example of a major issue that should be addressed with Dell. This experience ended with another unhappy customer that returned his laptop and went elsewhere. It also showed how terrifying it is to deal with the outsourced on-site techs.

 

Welcome to NBR Forum. We are glad you joined us and look forward to seeing more posts from you in the Alienware Community. Congratulations on the M18x. It's an awesome system and will be even more so once we have this glitch corrected. We the support we have seen from Alienware lately, and Dell-Bill_B in particular, I am very optimistic we will see resolution in the near future.

Your information has been added to the list on the first post. With respect to the BIOS hang and pulling the battery, it is not uncommon for the BIOS loading to take some time on the first boot after changes are made, with subsequent boots going quickly. Even more so on first boot with a brand new system. (It should not take an excessive amount of time, but it was not clear how long you were waiting for POST to complete.) Pulling the battery and AC power may be hurting more than helping... try letting it finish once and see if subsequent boots go quickly. If you continue to have trouble, I recommend that you call Tech Support at 800-ALIENWARE for assistance. You may also want to post something in the M18x Owner's Lounge to see if anyone else is experiencing the same issue. (It would be off-topic for this thread.)

As a new member of the NBR Community, please review the following threads and you will be off to a great start:

Forum Rules

Reputation Points/Power and User Titles

Alienware General Information & HOW TO: Search the forum - *READ BEFORE POSTING*

Again, welcome to the Community. +1 Rep for joining us

 

Yes, this is off-topic for the thread. We plan to raise general awareness of this problem with Dell-Bill_B and Louis during our call. This problem resonates with your experience. While only one example like this is too many, we don't have any data on the percentage of service calls that end up turning out bad. Results may vary by individual technician, city, state and country... the link above involves a customer in Puerto Rico. I also know there are some very good outsourced techs out there. (The tech in my area is excellent and even though I do not require his expertise, I trust him with my beast.) We've seen horrific examples of tragic outcomes with depot repairs as well, including one in this thread. Personally, I had rather take my chances with a local tech working under my roof. That said, let's try to remain on topic as much as possible with AMD-specific subject matter so the thread stays on track.

 

Got an email from my very helpful tech support guy today. I had given him a link to this thread so he could get a better idea of how big this problem is. He cancelled my order for another new m18x with 6990's and ask me if he could give me a system with 580m's.

"Thank you, Mr. Kantar, all the issues mentioned in the blog appear to be currently with the ATi 6990 graphics card. I will be escalating this but I do not have an ETA as to when we could have a resolution for this problem. However, what I can do for you is replace the ATi with an Nvidia 580M graphics card. Will that be fine with you?"

I would like to stress the fact that not all tech experiences are bad and that you just have to find the right person high enough up the ladder. It took me weeks to find the email and phone number of an executive customer support guy but it has helped me a lot!

 

Fox, can I again suggest that we also ask about other issues, we are becoming rather myopic on this thermal issue and Bill has already indicated that they are aware of the problem and are working on a fix. For all we know they already have a fix in place or are deciding between options at this point ...