M17/Ocz Whitebook Quad Problems

K-Tron is banned for some reasons and I couldn't send him a PM

 

i finally got up. taking some pics now.

 

it's oversized and bent up as it was about 5 feet away from me. but all it needs to be in about the size of a penny and it is very thin.
http://i45.tinypic.com/24yd7gm.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/21e21w1.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/dpvk0l.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/tag95u.jpg

 

Thanks for the pictures I think I will order the sheet of ebay and cut it with wire cutter.

 

if you werent in a rush i would send you some....

 

use tin snips then simply flatten it out they will snip through that stuff like butter

 

ya, copper is a relatively soft metal

 

what i do is cut the piece then flatten it. then i go through lapping it down to make sure its smooth and flat. i use a piece of glass and i start with 600 then 1000 then 1500 then if you want mirror got to 2000 but even 1000 is fine to stop at. i even use rouge when im done to polish it to a glass like finish when im done. use a good metal wet sanding paper not stuff meant for wood also..

 

if it be interesting, I receive answer from AW tech support:
''Comment:
Hi. Could you help me with my problem . I
have AW M17 with 14B BIOS, I have last
VGA,Audio,chipset and etc. drivers but my
sistem get sound stuttering and freezes in
games and music listening.I Try to
reinstall Windows Vista SP1-2 x64, Windows
7 Home Premium x64 but problem is still a
same.When I test my sistem in 3D Mark06 I
get 9900 points (but my crossfire runing
fine), also I test my DPC latency with DPC
Latency Checker and bars jump over 160000
us!!!''

''Dear Mr. ,

we are aware of this issue and investigating a solution.

The issue is not only present by our brand but by others producer too.

The issue is probably related to drivers and the operating system kernel.

As soon we have a solution for you we will contact you.

Please can you provide us any kind of info regarding the latency checker:

The values, the typ of test ....

Thank you in advance for your understanding''

So it's not only M17x problem,but and M17 also.I think new BIOS or fix in on the way

 

Erm, the stuttering issue was known on the M17 well before the M17x was even released...

I'm not sure if the issue had anything to do with DPC latency though.

 

I think that support for the M17 is gone. It sucked when the M17 was still in production.

 

Ahh, you mean "Technical NON-support" depending on the day and the phase of the moon, you get different answers from them about the same question.

 

I would like to express my honest gradiditute to all of those that put their time and sweat on this problem!
I consider you to be pioneers!!! =)

I have the m17 notebbok and just I applied the Copper mod on my NorthBridge.

Although the performance is obviously better (meaning that now the CPU/NB fan doesn't get loud as hell
whenever I choose any other power consumption mode other than "power saver" and my idle temperatures are now around 60c instead of 69c!),
the stutters have reduced BUT are still there whenever tempatures in my cores go up to 74c.

Since I AM a complete noob at this (I consider what I did today to be the riskiest thing I ve attempted so far,
even though I ve assemplied a desktop pc from scratch and I am also known to break desktop PCs down to their components just to carry them around)
I DID expect to do something wrong in this procedure,
and to be frank I am quite satisfied that i didnt end up frying my CPU.

So any ideas as to what I might have done wrong?

Then again I know that it can take quite some time for the thermal paste to settle in and work right.

By the way check this image;
the colored values on my taskbar's right corner are the temps that the CoreTemp 0.99 gives me and at the same time the window above shows the values the CPUID is giving me which are significantly lower!!!
Why is that?
Which one should i trust?

By ibizanhound at 2010-10-08


TECHNICAL STUFF:
I used a 11x11x1mm pure copper square plate for my NB.
Does these dimentions sound ok?
I didnt see anyone else mentioning the dimensions of the copper piece they used.

Also,
I put thermal paste on the NB chip,
on the NB's heat conductor's surface
and on the 2 silver surfaces on my CPU which would be the 2 sets of dual cores of my CPU i take it :S.

The amound i used each time was as big as an unboiled grain of rice
and i spread that to cover the whole area of the silver area of each chip trying to keep it even and as thin as possible.

If i need to change anything please let me know you guys!

A big thank you to everybody once again
and a big SCREW YOU to Alienware for avoiding to reply to the mail i sent them 5 months before my waranty was over, asking them "what could be causing the stutters?",
and replying to me only when I sent them the same message for the 2nd time, just this month, only to get the answer:
" Sorry but your warranty has expired, we cannot help you."!!!

 

Those temps look quite ok to me.

The stutter is actually caused by the laptop power draw and not temperatures as originally believed. I have the same problem with my M17x (albeit much less severe).

Hook up a kill-a-watt meter and watch the wattage when the stutter happens. It should drop from around 220 to about 100W (that is your CPU getting hacked down to like 10% performance)

I recommend trying out ThrottleStop and seeing if it helps. As far as I know no one tried to use it on the M17 as we had all moved on by then. Also, UncleWebb (the author or ThrottleStop) is an active member here and can help you a lot.

Hope this helps!

 

I am not so sure about that, I mean the NB overheating was definatelly taking its toll.
Whenever I 'd choose either "Balanced" mode or "High performance" the CPU and NB fan would immediatelly start blowing hot air like crazy. Now its quiet!

Also mine never stutters whenever in "Power saver" mode,
only when I put it to the other modes and without even trying to stress it.
So i guess there is no voltage interference.

But there is definatelly something fischy about the power adaptor.
I bought my m17 in the UK and brought it to Greece where i am from,
and it keeps dropping the safety switch on the house's power board quite often.

Still not sure why, it does that completely at random it seems.

Thank you so much for the assistance!

 

Hmmm....in Europe it is 240V right? so only like one amp pulled by the adapter, that should definitely not be tripping any breakers. Like I said, if you can get a kill-a-watt power meter it can tell you a lot about what the laptop is doing my showing the power usage.

Heat is a by-product of power usage so it would be easy to think heat is the cause of the problem but I am confident that it is actually power draw. Extensive testing for this has been done with my laptop (the newer version of the M17) to show this. I do not think anyone verified this on the M17 though as most just upgraded to the M17x (is what I did myself - but I had the OCZ whitebook/same chassis).

 

Ok then, I ll give the power meter a go.
What's one's price by the way (estimation ofcourse)?

Also, do you have any idea as to why i get so different temperature readings from the 2 applications i use?

Thank you scook!!! =)

 

Sometimes the heatsink seats better for whatever reason. This can affect cooling a fair bit. I got my kill-a-watt for $20 off newegg last summer but in Greece I cannot say what your options will be.

 

i suspect the reason the coper mod help reduce stutter in the m17 is because when some thing heat up it's resistance to curent goes up so it needs more power to get it to work correctly and thus causing a higher power demand wich cause a stutter when the laptop goes over it's power capacity

so keeping you nb cool reduce stutter

maybe throttlestop can help but i've been testing latly with throttlestop and i can jack my cmod down to 12.7% and not have any trouble the laptop stays stable

so i suspect that the m17 dows not have a such featur and just goes over it's power envlope

 

Turning down cmod is not what the goal of throttlestop is. Your cpu runs at 100% normally and the BIOS triggers a drop down to 12.5% (in the M17x at least) when the power threshold is exceeded. That sudden drop in cmod drastically lowers performance resulting in the stutter you see. A better test would be, turn on throttle stop and keep it in monitoring mode. Now play a game or program that will cause stuttering. Once it stutters, Alt-tab and look at throttlestop. In the M17x the c0% is tanked down to 12.5% and slowly steps back to 100% over the next 30 seconds or so.

And what you said about the resistance occurred to me but it should not be that sensitive as that difference will be VERY small. More likely your computer just did something with the wireless or spun up a DVD causing a spike in power that triggered the throttling.

To use throttlestop to reduce/eliminate the stuttering, set both of the modulation options to 100% and lock them there by checking the box. Then put the laptop in a scenario that typically induces throttle and see if it still occurs.

 

well if it did not help why would the copper mod work so well we also know that in the m17 case the nb can go into the 90 while the cpu is sill in the low 70

in my specif case it would be quite hard i had stutering in the first 3 month with my laptop i devloped ways to stop it but then it just got away by it self i can't make it stutter even if i wanned maybe when i'll ge the qx i'll have to do some tweaking but atm mine is not qith my q9000

i've also noticed that in my laptop the heat sinc was pushing so hard on the NB that the thermalpad between them almost desintegrated i recently replaced it with some of the ek water block stuf from frozen cpu and it keeps it within 2 deg of my cpu but it was not getting much hugher befor like 5-7 deg higher

an other soucre of stutter known is the network driver for the 5300 it's the worst piece of crap i've ever seen

 

Shoot UncleWebb a pm and he can help you investigate the source of the throttling, he has ALOT more experience with it than I do. Although if you are having no stuttering now that will make it harder to diagnose the cause obviously

 

there is a misunderstanding here lol i don't ahve any issue with my laptop at all i just jumped in to help the other with my experiences

 

well he can also shoot UncleWebb a pm

I simply do not believe that heat is the culprit of the stuttering (never did, even when I had the whitebook). Given that I had the EXACT same behavior with my M17x where we pinpointed it to being due to power draw I am even more hesitant to blame temps.

 

yup the m17 was also pinned to to be mostly power related

but more heat mean more power concumsion so it helps to keep it cool it does not solve it

also he could also try zfactor's bios wich is ment to stopp the stuttering



he should also know that he could come back to alienware if he still has a proof that he sent them a mail about the issue befor his warrantie they are forced to honnor it since he informed them aboutit befor it ended

 

Thank you guys for your interest in the m17 issue
and sorry I didnt participate in your dialogue,
I just woke up and I ll be attending a game developers conference
thats taking place here in Greece for the rest of the day.
Talk to you later this evening!
See ya and thank you!

 

i've been runing 6 boinc project 1 per cpu core + 1 per gpu and DAMN this thing won't output enought heat

my nb temps is 80 my avg cpu is 77 and my gpu's are around 95 so it seem like i'm on the limit of the cooling system for the gpu but the cpu look like it could handle more

 

By the way I forgot to mention that these temps are at "Power saver" mode and in idle condition. I if i play a 1080p mp4 video on Youtube it easily reaches 76c or so.

 

Hi granyte and thank you for your suggestions.
So, is zfactor's bios safe to use on the m17?
And how does it work?
Does it lower the power consumption and therefore
the prossesing power of the system?

Also, how can i see my Northbridge temp?
I keep hearing about Everest application.
What do you think?

Thank you very much!

 

So, these are the temps that everest gives me in "Power saver" mode and in idle conditions. Is there any way to tell what the NB temp is in this image?:


By ibizanhound at 2010-10-09

 

so far it is i've ben using it for nearly a year

actualy the zfactor's bios makes the cpu voltage a little higher so that the heat does not make a power shortage on extreme quad it also does not have some of the securitie AW bios has so if your trouble is indeeed throteling it removes it

zfactor never released a complete list of his mods so it's unclea but his bios is safe and removed the stuter on some system while causing it on some others

BEWARE do not take kizwan mods of the bios unless you feel like beta testing a bios



hardware monitor map it as tz00 so it might be the mobo diode on everest

 

Actually zfactor removed alot of the power throttling features as well, that is why it overclocks better AND does not stutter

 

it certainly overclock better compared to a bios wo don't at all

it does not stutter on some system while it cause it on other

ex mandrake had suttering on b14 but none on z29
EvilCorsaiR had stuttering on z29 but non on b14
i don't have stuttering on b14 or z29

 

It has certainly been odd how random the results are with stuttering on the M17. I will absolutely agree with you there

 

yup this is how i came to the conclusion that stuttering was not only power related and why i tested tons and tos of thing whitin the 3 month i had stuttering

and seeing how not a single solution fix it for any one but how they disminish it a little each time it seem like there are many reason why the m17 stutters and they are proper to every one

 

dam. this is still live and kicking.

 

Good things never die Don haha

 

Mine did

 

Well, the idea of a good thing never dies!

Sorry for the problems you had but it looks like you are well taken care of now

Being outside the US for support is a rough road to go down

 

Hahah yeah I am, still trying to get shot of some teething issues, but probably a dodgy cable/card causing intermittant issues...hopefully. Cant complain about speed though

 

So, I did the copper modification and intalled the zfactor bios mod 8 months ago,
but my m17 kept giving me long stutters and its fans would blow air like crazy non stop.
Even on idle conditions!

Lately, I decided to upgrade from Vista to Win 7
and also alocate more space to the partition where i have my OS installed on.

I dont know if its Win 7,
or the fact there is now much more free space on my OS partition,
but i can surely say that the stutters are gone and that my laptop actually quiets down when its not stressed like its supposed to do!!!

So, I 'd though I shared with you all, hoping that this will help someone else out there.

These are my current specs:

Windows 7 Home Basic SP1 x64

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000 2.00GHz
RAM: 4 GB
Graphics Cards: 2 x ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3870

My OS in now installed on a 55GB partition and in which the 16gb are free.

I used to have Vista Ultimate x64 installed on a 40GB Partition, with only 5GB free.

 

windows 7 put less useless strain on the computer then vista did making stutter less aparent and allowing the computer to cool down at idle making the stutter even less aparent

 

It definatelly appears to be so!

And the fact is that 2 years ago when I bought the laptop, it came with win vista installed but included a dvd of Win 7, but it was a very early version of them which back then seemed to me to be slower than my streamlined Vista.
So for 2 years now I was with Vista.

But now it seems that Win 7 are much better in every aspect!
Finally my laptop is working as its supposed to!!!!

 

windows 7 has always been faster and lighter than vista even in it's beta phase (i was among the beta tester and i'm waiting for my invite for windows 8)

so you probably had an iddue with your install

 

My M17 boots into Windows 7 in about a minute, I love it

OT: I have a Q9000 and I still get stutters occasionally but nothing I can't resolve by cycling the keyboard lights or reconnecting the power cord.

 

mine in 28 seconds ^^

stutters is completly abscent on mine

and my Q9000 use IDA to clock one of it's cores to 2.2ghz on demand
i could also overclock it to 2.7 completly stable i'll also upgrade to a QX soon

 

so the M17 will take a quad/1066 fsb cpu...


Will the m17x-r1 take one as well?


I would much rather have a q9100 that a t9300 at the same price...

 

no sadly that's the reason they made a m17 in the first place ti suppor the Quads

i think your best bet with the area-51 m17x is the x9000 cpu