M17 x9100 4850x2 about temps/undervolt/overclock

Hi all Alien-fans.
I have Alienware M17 since 2 years but few days ago I upgraded the CPU to x9100 OEM from P8400.

My issues are the following:
with AW Bios B14 - voltage of cpu is 1,265 and idle is going to 70-75, after 2-5 minutes of Orthos it goes to 93-95 Celsius and TZ00 North Bridge hits 100 so I hit the stop.

I put Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on the CPU, on the Heatsink, on the North Bridge and on the thermal pad of the heatsink, which was already old...but I did not take it off. (Is this the problem?)

I think I put a lot of thermal paste - or this is the problem? A lot on all places.
I also put on my videocards 4850x2, also a lot.
After 1-2 hours playing Crysis the videos hit 90-94 degrees which is much I think, and the cpu around 88-90 also the TZ00. And for the videos I remember a max temp around 75-80, now is higher.

I use RMclock to undervolt the cpu and it is kind of stable(NOT in orthos, but in Everest Stability test or gaming) on 1,125v and hit 45-55 idle and 80-85 under stress. Also sometimes there is shuttering while gaming!

Also I can not overclock, because of the high temperatures.

I read almost 90% of the forums topics and posts. What do you suggest?

Is the thermal paste a problem (that I put to much) or I have to take off the thermal pad of the North Bridge, or I have to make a copper mod and cut my down cover a bit for more air flow.

I went not for t9900 but for x9100 because of the "extreme" word, what more can it give me(except multiplier overclock)?

What are the best voltages and how to overclock dynamicly? I know that is individual, but what are your best scores?
For example I want 3,3Ghz or 3,5 without any cooler in reasonable temperatures.

I also tried z.29 Bios - same temps.
If I make to have normal temps what is the best way of dynamic overclock only while gaming.
SetFSB + RmClock + stock BIOS
or
Custom z28/z29 BIOS + Intel XTU + pernament overclock + RMclock for less heat when idling under power save profile.


Probably wrong putting of the thermal paste...
What do you suggest me?

Also I still have the strange problem with my keyboard after they replaced mine.
If all M17 users can check do they have the same?
For example holding right arrow and up arrow, and presing A, S, D OR W, some letters do not work D for example(and 10-15 more of the rest keyboard - in games/text editors and everywhere).
Do you have same issue?

 

z.29 bios should have given you even higher temp since the default voltage for it is much higher

ok one thing i know the thermal pad on the north bridge need to be replaced putting paste on it can only make the situation even worst putting to much paste on any part can only have negative impact on the other thread i pointed where to get some replacement pad


also note the intel XTU has a very long history of causing instability on the system you need to put it's service on manual startup instead of auto if you realy plan on using it

also i sugest you use kizwan's mods instead of zfactor's they are preatty much the continuation of the work on the bios

 

P.S. Thanks for the answer

 

in the general m17 thread there is a long explanation on why there was an issue with kizwan's mods and it was only one version of the mods that was corrupted and bricked my laptop (there are also link to the bios)

ya but idle with stock is 1.050 idle with zfactor's is 1.2
honestly try throttlestop
but for permanent i'd use the xtu and then lock it's services

 

Those 2 statements don't make sense. Why encourage someone to use software that causes instability issues?

ThrottleStop can control the CPU voltage and unlock the multiplier on the Extreme CPUs so you can set it to whatever you like and ThrottleStop is rock solid stable. The only instability issues you will ever have is if you use ThrottleStop to overclock your CPU beyond what it is capable of, don't use enough core voltage or run your CPU too hot.

flymouse: If your idle temps are over 70C then your heatsink is not making proper contact with the CPU. Too much heat paste can be just as bad as not enough. The heatsink has to be snug for proper heat dissipation. Go to the Arctic Silver website if you need to learn more about how much paste you should be using. That stuff is designed to fill in the tiny microscopic pits so you shouldn't use it like a tube of toothpaste. Some thermal pads interfere with the heatsink contacting the CPU so you might have to do some re-engineering to tighten this up.

 

the intel XTU save it's modification to the bios so you can set it to w/e you wish and then roll back the computer to a pre instalation time with system restore and the setting would remain

while with throttlestop you would need throttlestop to boot everytime you boot to enable the setting back

 

granyte: Thanks for explaining that.

 

Ok, after I replaced normal amount of Arctic Silver 5 at cpu/North Bridge and Videocards now is much more better, but only idle and also depends on the voltage.

Now at 1.2v idle CPU cores are between 48-50 degrees, and NB is 55-58.
BUT not more than 3-4 minutes running Orthos - cpu cores hit 90-92 and North bridge hit 96-98 and I stopped, because seems dangerous!

What do you think?
Till now I see that Orthos stress much more than gaming...
How should I stress CPU to see perfect point of voltage + I want overclock + under 90 degrees?

 

ya you need to run tests to find your ideal spot

use throttlestop cause that way you won't be forced to rebood between tests

 

yes I know but ... temps under stress are high :S

Now I am testing at 1,1625 voltage (undervolted) at stock 3.06 GHz - 98 degrees of TZ00 and 92 of Core1 are passed in the 3rd minute of Orthos...

May be I have to try during gaming...

I hope that after 5-10 days temps will drop, because thermal paste will start working...but who knows.

 

you will need a replacement pad for your NB and you will need to clan properly the surfaces

 

What size do you recomend for North Bridge?
1.0 mm, 1.4 mm, 1.5 mm (grey color)
And I want also for the videocards and South Bridge (yellow color) - it's 3.2 mm.

 

1.0 mm is good for all that's that i used and it reduced my temp

 

When I cleaned my CPU I honestly couldn't tell if the NB has padding on it or GPU paste because it was corroded to almost nothing -_-

 

wether it has one or not that's what it need the gpu memory can use the same 1.0 mm thick pad and the die the same paste as your gpu

 

Ordered this padding for the NB and to redo the GPU memory banks as they're idling at 55 and gaming 70-80 -_-

Fujipoly Premium Thermal Pad - VGA Block - 60 x 50 x 1.0 - Thermal Conductivity 6.0 W/mK - FrozenCPU.com

 

If I put thermal paste isntead of thermal pad (what I already did)?
What are the problems?
Idle is perfect, under stress is terrific...
AS5 start to work better after 200 hours but are these 200 hours calculated when computer is working or when it is turned off?

 

This thread gives various thoughts on using paste of pad's but it seems the general consensus is to replace the pad.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/373496-m17-how-reapply-thermal-paste-cpu-gpus.html

So did you remove the pad off the Northbridge and the GPU memory banks and replace them with paste and have better results?

 

Thanks a lot.
I had read that thread but I have forgotten some things. Anyway the last reply was very important which I also support.

zofodraziw2005 wrote:
"My thoughts and past experience...
If a thermal pad is removed it should be replaced with a new one. They crimp only so much. Also I've seen yellow pads on some. The yellow pads are not thermal pads! They are for lining up the pads locations with the chips. You put on the yellow ones first then put the cooler on. Then cinch it down a bit, I said a bit not a lot. DO NOT POWER UP THE MACHINE. Take the heat sink off again and look at the impressions on the yellow pads. The impressions are to help position the gray ones after you take off the the yellow ones. DO NOT PLACE ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER (Two thicknesses not allowed). Only one gray one allowed, at each chip location. I read this on laptop's site I believe."

 

the yellow ones are ideed thermal pads only they have a thermal limit of 95c if you go over that they get cooked and thier thermal proprieties vanish


the reason why you can't replace pads with paste is because the pads are concived to transfer heat over 1.0mm while paste is concived to transfer heat much better but only over much smaller distance

 

Great Thanks.

 

OP, there's a detailed guide over at Artic Silver's website, which I am sure you will find useful. Sometimes it helps to RTFM.

 

What will happen if I peel off the transperant orange sticker?



And clean under it and NOT put again - not to use it?
Both on the videocards and on the North Bridge?

 

errr nothing it's there to prevent user who use paste like as5 that have a potential of being conductive from spilling it onto the exposed chips


also by undervoltin i guess you mean undervolting your active clock have you tryed any result?

 

Finally I placed thermal pad to the North and South Bridge - 3M 1mm and 1,5mm
Also on the VGA head sinks. I used Arctic Silver 5 on the VGA chips and CPU chip about 1 mm maybe less.
First tests are:
under stress Orthos - 9 minutes - x9100@3,33GHz (12,5 Multi, 1,2 volts) - CPUs hit 86-88, TZ00 hit 95.
without overclock TZ00 is around 88, CPUs are less.
Under gaming the CPU is not constantly under 100% utilization so temperatures are less - with overclock around 82-84.
Room temp was about 27-28 degrees.
For me it is kind of all right, finally.
I will keep an eye on the temps
Thanks to all guys!

 

just out of the top of my head do you run a raid array?

 

No, no raid, just 160 GB 7200rpm HDD.

New info:
IDLE: x9100 @ stock|NO-overclock 3.06 @ 1.2V (W840_029 zfactor VT MOD R2_PST):
40-45 CPU, 49-52 TZ00
under stress with Orthos - test stress cpu with Gromacs core - 12 minutes temps are:
90-92 CPU, 98-99 TZ00
and I stopped.

Should I put 1,5 mm on North Bridge or 1mm thermal pad is enough?

NB: Original stock BIOS is 1.265 V (more than this modded).

Max memory temps are 41 and max assembly is 50. Videos are 70, under gaming hit 80-85.
Room temp: 26-28.

CPU is OEM, stepping is C0.
I read somewhere that C0 is worse than E0 (which is engineering sample/non-OEM).

 

i'm not sure about x9100 but my qx9300 is a E0 and it's an oem

you should use throttlestop to see if you can undervolt the cpu a little more under the 1.2 mark and then make the stable one permanent through the intel XTu

no the laptop is made to use only 1mm thick thermal pad

i guess you cleaned the vent (or we adrealy told you to)

 

I can undervolt to 1.175V without overclock and it does not fail on stress.
Today I played Crysis for around 1 hour at the above settings and CPU hit 89-90, TZ00 92. Videos 91 (I think it is too much.)
But it is summer and in the room is around 28, so maybe it is possible.
Still seems to much for me - without overclock and with undervolt
I'll keep track in next 1-2 weeks to see is there any drop in temps when the AS5 thermal paste will be used more than 200 hours.

 

I still have these temp issues.
I put thermal paste again and I tried not Arctic Silver 5 but Arctic Ceramique this time.
I put proper amount without to spread it manually, I just use the pressure of the radiator.
The first day temps were ok, but currently during playing games 30 to 90 minutes CPU hits 92-99 degrees C.
I stressed it now with Everest and after the 3rd minute it hit 100 deg.

What should I do?
Currently I use stock AW B14 bios with ThrottleStop voltage to 1,2V @ 11,5 multiplier.
So these temps are without overclock and WITH undervolt!
I plan copper mod - is it suitable for x9100 or it is ONLY for Quads?

 

mostly for quads but damn so many x9100 have these issues

 

I think you are just being a bit over paranoid and have to realize you are dealing with a notebook that does not have the greatest cooling system. I am running the same setup as you and the x9100 at 3.33ghz will occasionally hit 94-96c while gaming. It's the nature of the beast. The CPU's max is 105c. If you are under 100c consider it safe territory. Your 4850's are rated for even more abuse with a max of 120c. Mine max right around 91c.

 

Hm, so you think it is normal?
Because I read somewhere in the threads about much less temperatures for example 45-50 idle and under 80-85 with 1-2 hours gaming about [email protected].
Mine temps are exactly like yours, what does it mean - no chance for overclocking? What about people that push this CPU to 3,5-3,7Ghz? Probably they do not use stock cooling

Thanks for your information that you shared with me. It made me calm.

 

There are other factors as well. Where do these people live? What is the temperature in their house? I've heard of people standing outside in the winter just to get a higher score on a benchmark. My room temperature is 70F right now and I idle right around 45-50c but max at 96c. That is what I would consider normal for a x9100 overclocked 300mhz in that ambient temp. GPU's are idling at right around 60c maxing at 91c. In the winter, my room temp is around 60F. That would lower the notebook temps as well. The cooling system in these notebooks is really pretty horrible. Considering the amount of hardware crammed in there, you really can't complain about those temps.

What is your room temp you are operating in? As long as you are not maxing out at 100c or more, your safe. To give you another idea, I took this notebook with me to Iraq in 2009. It spent a year over there, some days running in indoor temps of 90+ degrees or more. 2 years later, the system is still alive. Have some faith my friend.

 

Haha, thanks.
Usually my room temp is between 24 and 29 degrees C. (75 to 85).
My temps are these without overclocking.
I will cut the bottom case or I will remove it. (There is a nice mod for the bottom cover that drops the temps with 5-10 degrees according its creators. - http://forum.notebookreview.com/5941087-post396.html )
I will have faith my friend, but anyway I was kind of worried. Thanks to you, now I feel all right.

 

You know, I did that mod because I heard it would help. For me all it did was cause the fans to go nuts. I ended up putting the stock one back on and it went back to normal. I personally think it's because the bottom fans are all intake fans and with the bottom cut out, it just lets hot air out to have the fans suck up again.

Have you removed the filter screens from the vents? I did that and got a nice laptop cooler for it to sit on and that seems to be the best for it.

 

?? You mean the black material around the radiators OR the black material on the back cover? If it is the second, isn't it good for filtering dust?

 

Do you have copper mod?
And how did you manage to have a shutter free system AND overclocked to 3,7GHz?

 

i did this mod to http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...cations-custom-builds/594975-pimp-my-ufo.html

how come you fan gos nuts with one? do your fan go nuts without a back panel?


no i dont have a copper mod and yes im capable on goin up to 3.7 withou stuter but i think its mostly luck my mobo seem to be capable of runing any cpu without trouble and my cpu is the holder of the world record oc for mobile c2q

 

The material from the back cover. Yes it is there to filter dust, however it is also a air restriction. As long as you blow out your computer once in awhile, it is helpful to remove them. You'll get a lot less dust then if you cut out 90% of it for a mesh screen.