Project Freeze(M17/Ocz Whitebook)

Numbers are different because one is an OCZ unit and the other is an Alienware

 

Hello again people !
This is my final post about my making a custom cooling system.
These are the conclusions I have come to with this project.
These pictures were taken over the course of a few days, since I dont have enough time to do this in one day.

To start I will give you my full system specification:
• Notebook model: Arima w840di (Alienware M17)
• Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Mobile QX9300 (qs -e0)
• Graphics: Dual Ati 3870 Crossfired
• LCD screen resolution: 1920x1200
• Memory: 4gb ddr3 1066mhz (stock 2x 2gb)
• Hard drives: Two WD Scorpios 320gb 7200rpm in Raid0

And the room temperature:

Averages from 23C-24C.

The list of things I got to do this:
• A replacement CPU heatsink with fan (since I didnt want to wreck the stock one)
• A pack (8 pieces) of Primecoolers GPU ramsinks (actual dimensions are 12x14x5mm)
• A piece of pure silver
• A screwdriver (obviously)
• A laser cutter for metal (I didnt get this, I went to someone to do it for me)

The replacement heatsink:

Notice I already drew a line on it where it is going to be cut.

The ramsinks:


The piece of pure silver:


I should also mention I use this cooler (Zalman zm-nc2000), although I have it turned off most of the time since the fans dont really help much but rather the fact that the notebook is elevated on it.


Before picture of the insides:


Temperatures with cpustabtest before:


GPU temperatures after 3dmark06 before: (Note that this is a screenshot from winter so the room temp was about 6C cooler.. I forgot to make a newer screenie before the mod.)


Now what I did with this:
My first concern was the CPU heatsink the system came with. A quad core and the northbridge on the same heatsink seamed like a really bad idea to me.. I thought the CPU was the one heating the northbridge to insane temperatures. That is why I cut the new heatsink as you can see below and put a ramsink on the northbridge - if it was really as i predicted the NB chip would stay a lot cooler with its own ramsink.
Second I had some ramsinks left so I modded the GPU heatsinks to lower their temperature.

The already cut heatsink:


The insides after the mod:

The ramsinks on the GPU heatsink.


The northbridge mod (the silver is between the NB and the ramsink, also tried it without the silver piece, same results).


It seams the northbridge CPU mod was a really bad idea.. this is a screenshot after 26 seconds of cpustabtest:


It seams the CPU wasnt really heating the northbridge, but rather the NB itself is extremely hot and actually needs to be on the stock cooling not to burn out. I didnt want to fry it so I stopped the test.
And the CPU cooling has also been affected as predicted (YES, I know zfactor ). It just isnt as effective now as it was before. Basically, this was almost a complete waste of time. The only thing I proved was the nortbridge is the culprit for its own heat not the CPU.
So I am back to my original heatsink, but I put the pad I got on the new heatsink (the one for the northbridge) on the old one and it actually works better than mx-2 since its thicker and makes full contact between the chip and the heatsink.
At least I got something from this new cooler.. and im keeping the fan as a spare too..

Here are the new temperatures with cpustabtest (needed a few runs.. the program is acting strange, sometimes saying my system is unstable and just stops, although i still dont see it stutter.. perhaps its just the fact that Im working at the same time its running):


And the ramsinks on the gpu heatsink? Theyre worth it.. just take a look at the temperature drop after a 3dmark06 run (note also that the before one was made in the winter).


So my reccomendations:
Dont try to mod the cpu heatsink.. its really the best as it is.. I think I have proven that.. and if you can get the original thermal pad for the nb i suggest to use it.. its good.. the nb stays cooler with it since it really is thick enough (or do the copper mod but this is alot easyer).

And if youre looking to cool down your gpus just do with the ramsinks as I did. Tested and works.

Also would like to add: I removed the dust cloths on the back last week and it didnt help one bit for me so I wouldnt suggest that. Tested before and after with no difference.

Thats all for now. Hope you enjoyed my contribution.

 

okay guys i have used a pressure sensitive material to check the seating on the northbridge.

this shows me where the contact is or isnt basically. with this only between the nb and the stock heatsink there is NEXT TO NO PRESSURE BETWEEN THE TWO. BASICALLY THEY ARE BARELY TOUCHING!!! at least this is how my system was. i them added the copper shim and put a new piece in place between the copper shim and the stock heatsink and there was pressure the whole way around. A LOT OF PRESSURE...not enough to break the die but its perfect now. the paper is showing the way it should have been from the start. ill put it back together and report temps..

 

About vga ram heatsinks, we can also put them over the northbridge. I've pics and such but I'm having problems with a bad windows install :s I'll post them later...
aw well... problem solved I guess. Credits to zfactor.
It makes sense. correct me if I'm wrong but I think the QX9300 chip is a bit higher then other chips. maybe that also helps the northbridge not making a proper contact with the heatsink. Maybe a thermal pad in the northbridge would also work. If the problem is really a pressure issue it's really easy to solve

 

yeah def the nb needs something there. imo the best thing is a copper shim. im going to see if i can get my freind at the local machine shop to get me a piece of copper stock and have him dice it up for me. then ill have the shims to ship out and simply install.. ill call him tomm and see how much the copper sheet is and then i can break it up and it should not be to expensive. if i can get these cut and someone is willing to cover shipping costs / paypal fees i dont mind sending them out. as long as they dont come out of pocket i dont mind at all. copper is not cheap especially ofhc stuff which is what i would have him get so it doesnt turn green or oxidize. im also going to see how much i can get bulk ram sinks for and then if i can get this together i can send them out as a "set" ill know tomm if i can get it all set up

 

i'm in.. just let me know.

 

oh ill make a new thread about it.. dont worry. im calling him first thing in the morning. im going to see is there are some ram sinks i can get wholesale on and then i can put them both together for everyonei will prob use copper ram sinks though instaed of the blue ones. well see i did find some that dont need to be cut down but i have to see if they will sell to me in bulk or not

 

there are many copper sheets for sale in websites for overclock. This is, the piece between thermal paste and the copper tube for LN2 (my good old desktop overclock times lol). I known it's not exactly the same size but if you can cut a bit it's gonna fit.
example http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2410/exp-03/50x50mm_Copper_Cold_Plate.html (extremely expensive for a piece of copper imo but it's just an example)
Cutting from old copper coolers would also do it.
It's not so easy to cut copper though. zfactor thread is gonna help lot's of people. a thermal pad will eventually work too but copper is better imo.
and this is a must check: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=12634&step=4

 

i have a freind who owns a machine shop so its pretty easy for them

 

I still want to design something, there's enough room for a nice cooler mod. if just adding small vga ram heatsinks can drop 5C in temps then a large copper cooler will drop much more

 

zfactor can you do me a favor? and see how hot the gpu memory gets without the gpu heatsink attached. i don't know if you have a desktop heatsink somewhere but if they don't get as hot as the gpu core, maybe we can cut them off and just use heat sinks on it. providing better overclock and also a cooler gpu?



i am following along with everything but not saying to much becuase it's my first time doing a mod like this and also i am gathering information on what the best way to appoarch this for not only me but everyone else.

 

I played around with some old vga heatsinks I had. They fit almost perfectly, I didn't had to cut them to place the plastic cover back. Though I should cut them a bit. but this was just for testing. I just place them over the northbridge like lego, nothing more. I didn't messed around with the gpu.


Before:


After:



results: northbridge less 4C, CPU less 5C
I think that's a lot considering the simplicity of the mod... makes me want to do a real mod...

 

very nice. the killer notebook mod. i see he use somthing simple. what do you think we could add on it like your heatsink but alittle neater.

 

Dondadah i think it isnt wise to cut away any part of the heatsink.. as you can see the northbridge which we thought was heated by the cpu is also freaking hot by itself.. so i think theres also a good reason the ram chips on the gpus are covered by the heatsink like that. But you are welcome to try. Ive had enough fun testing my seperate cpu and nb cooling idea and as you can see it was BAD. Those little chips probably also produce their fair amount of heat.

Btw.: where can you see peoples rep. points?

 

Finally got time to edit my post.. should be nicer to read now..
Anyway why still try with the copper mod? The thermal pad that comes with the heatsink is the best in my oppinion. It is thick enough to fill the entire gap and the extra even oozes out at the side.
It is not so easy for everyone to get the copper and make it exactly the right size, perfectly flat and add just enough pressure..
I got a collection of silver and copper at home but I dont think everyone has that at hand.
Just get a thick thermal pad, like the original, cut it to size and put in there.
Someone else also want to give it a try so we can also get another confirmation of this?
Just me, but could be wrong.

 

ok that's true. i forgot. that north bridge does get pretty hot.

i am going to think about what we can do with _-_-_'s idea since it was a quick do up and his temps drop by alot. to me anythin over 3 degrees or more is an improvement. that's why i'm trying to see what is the best way to approah this.


also i my thermal pad that i had on my northbridge got torn into about 3 pieces. so my stuttering wasgoing away anyway anysoon. so when halogod said that there extra pads on the gpu memory and he cut them off, i though to pad up everything. this pad up was the gpu memory, the gpu's and the northbridge.

then i turned on my computer, and when i ran 3dmark i heard my gpu fas go on full blast within seconds. so i took off the gpu heatsinks and replaced the pads with as5.

then my stuttering was gone. but i also kept constantly re applying paste to the cpu which ended me up with back to square number 1 because the pad also got torn and smashed out. also omegashock repeated the same steps as me cause it was easy and there was no special tools or extra piece material required. but he started to also stutter within a few days.


with the copper mod, halogod and zfactor were 100% fine but i was aiming for a quick fix that can pernamently fix this issue.

so i used a desktop heat sink and cut off a piece of it which resulted in much better results but thhe issue was still there. so then i used the copper mod and i'm good, accept when the hdd light is active it starts but if i am defraged, i'm fine. so i left it at that.

 

with the temps of the nb its not wise imo to use a thermal pad like that..

 

good work guys i have been away because of graduation .... party time ehhhhh?

 

There are many qualities of heatpads, most of them are very bad ones. there's a very good one here for sale for 15€ http://mxm-upgrade.com/store.html
But copper is better imo and cheaper.
HellCry be careful using a silver, I suspect copper is better, there are many types of silver, some have worse then copper. And I'm not so sure about corrosion etc. For example if you use collaboratory thermalpaste with silver or aluminium you will destroy the metal.

about a copper mod in the heatsink, you don't have to cut the heatsink. you can mod it easily. Just create another heatsink like the K|N one. there are screws securing the heatsink, you can use the same screws to secure the new heatsink. and you will still have a warranty it will be easy to remove it.
All you have to do is to design a new heatsink and put it over this one. There's enough room to place it. The hard part is to design the copper piece and to have it cut it.

 

i hate to sound like a newb but i was about to get a dual core t9550 with 256gb ssd m17 and xfire 3870's. Is this problem only with the quad core cpu's or is heat from the gpus also a problem. Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question. I don;t want to buy this laptop if im gonna have all these problems.

 

the problem has a very easy solution. the shuttering is only on the qx3000 chip that I known of. but if there's the same problem with other chips the solution is the same. Read the previous posts. but like I said, the problem has a very easy solution, a thermal pad or a piece of copper (better imo) will do. And it's not an heating problem (sort of). the problem is only the gap between the northbridge and the cooler.
A qx3000 is a much better chip then a t9550 imo. forgive me to suggest you to get 2x128gb SSD in raid. it will give you much more performance. Also, there's new graphic cards 4870 coming in the next weeks (ETA unknown though) that will give a nice performance boost. Maybe it's worth for you to wait.

 

i have a estimate coming tomm for the copper. hopefully ill know soon

 

feeling very lasy but i want to update the first post with notes of what's going on and what to do and what not to do. also want to mention that progress.



what can we do with the avc one. i pulled mines and i had a pad on it. i wonder how hot it gets? would you recommend using copper or just thermol paste on this?


and thank God for some good news about it.

 

posted that some where else, i knew the little passive cooloer wouldnt work

 

about the second link, the fan it's too big it doesn't fit. the copper cooler is the same I've one of those, it doesn't fit, it needs to be cut.
IMO only a major copper heatsink mod will work for major results. the vga ram heatsinks work great for small and very easy improvements. anyway it's not an issue anymore, the problem is identified and it's easily solved.

I wonder if Flextronics will release any "update" for quad cores since the notebook doesn't work properly out of the vendor with quad cores without any mod. The notebook specifications say that it supports quad extreme but it doesn't say nothing about shuttering issues. a "quad core update kit" would be nice. oh well it's just me dreaming, they don't even give us proper drivers... we can except nothing. We are even doing their own work.

 

we should get a partial refund for trying to finish there job.


but i cut off the bottom where the cpu and gpu fans are located and i am at 48 for the gpu's idle where i would be at 52-53.

and the cpu idle is at 39-41 which is about the same. but the only difference is right now my room temp is very hot very hot. so it is an improvement.


as for full load. i haven't tried it out because i have been very busy.


next for me is more copper and some ram sinks on the gpu and _-_-_ also put some on his cpu and it helped. so i am going to look into this more.



guys stupid question but what temp does copper melt at. i am thinking of a bigger heat sink to place on it. it sounds stupid but i am just wondering.

 

Man I enjoy reading your hard work guys.

Don, Im pretty sure copper melts around 2000F ;x not positive tho

 

~1984 degrees fahrenheit

 

it give us about 1900F to play around :x
Be careful if you are going to cut copper or something. it get's hot very quickly (which is good for our purpose) but I burned my fingers cutting those vga ram heatsinks lol :x
I'm not going to cut the bottom yet. I think it's too soon to lose my warranty. But I'm sure it will give nice results.
A bigger copper heatsink above the stock one is a great idea but it's not easy to design. And remember it requires some fins, this is, a large copper block will not work. It can be secured using the 6 screw holes from the stock heatsink, just using longer screws. warranty will still be valid.

 

very trur. and thats hot. i was just thunkig of a way to make the heat sinnk bigger since adding nore stuff to it cools it down. i just thought it was better then odd blocks inside it.

 

hey don, say AW offers the 4870 but requires us to send our m17's in.....what happens when they look at ours and see mods everywhere....they wont upgrade us...and they may need them to use a different cooling solution too so we might really have to send them in...what do we do?

 

good pount that i forgot to metoin. actually i think i did in the first page. but the mods that we are doing are easily removed to look brand new. thake off the copper and the heatsinks clean it and your good.


also i forgot to metion it. it was brought up in a different thread but we don't know what alienware might do. send you an upgrade kit or send it in.


when metion someone asked what if they take our old cards. the answer is they are not suppose to. you paid for them alteady there yours. if they do just tell them know or sew them but won't, they to careful(no overclocking.)

 

just get a different heatsink and replace that and thats why im ordering new bottoms they said they *should* be in to ship to me next week. just replace parts and send it in

 

what about the fact that we have qx9300's when the specs from alienware say i have a t9400?

 

you don't have your t9400 no more?

also you can maybe find one for cheap

why are you worried about sending it in?

 

idk was just wondering in case they need to for the 4870's....but for how much the upgrade will cost...i think its better to just get another laptop and sell the m17.....i still wait for the day all laptop share the same GPU mxm specs so stores like newegg can just sell mobile gpu's that will fit in any ( maybe mobile ATX form factor) laptop cases

 

mmmmm. i am waviery about selling my laptop cause it's a monster. i just can't get over the bios overclock(first quad and extreme cpu ever) and twin gpu's(first ever)

and it's a hassle to sell, save, find buy, then something better, repeats.


i am not selling unless the 4870's are not coming for this unit. i decided.

and why not make it better(project freeze)

 

oh for sure for me too.....if and only if there are no 4870's....otherwise i love my m17 and will keep it....honestly tho....i still have no need for more gpu power yet

 

i guess for gaming i don't but i'm a benchmarker. (as you can see) and i like to get the most out of my system. i am very mad at the fact thatwe can't overclock. it makes no sense. it's stupid. we don't even have ati overdrive. which is dum.

i'm thinking about getting faster hdd. @7200rpm. my drives arevery fast now but i want better. Lol.


btw did you try to copper mod the cpu or no.

 

naw....im not modding the laptop anymore...im getting to the point where i just wanna game....i spent more time modding than actually using the laptop lol...and right now...there are no good pc games

 

i'm playing demigod and i like it.

 

but seriously i feel you on this modding. i have been doing this for the longest and it does me off. but flex isn't doing anything about it. and our temps or crazy for the cpu and gpu.

i was running dmc4 on a hot day stock and i hit 98 on the master and 95 on the slave. i don't want that. i hate having to check my temps all the time. it's stupid. that's why i am still contunieing to mod it so it can be better.

 

whats the max temp spec for the gpu and cpu cores?

 

i think the cpu is 100 for quad and the duals 105 and the gpu's are 105. but i don't want to be near max all the time. i want my notebook to last.

i want 75-80 on gpu's and 75 on cpu's. i know it's hard but i am going to try.

 

i stay in the high 70's and low 80's all the time i do not plan on getting a quad just newer cooler montevina CPU's like i thinkt he t9700

 

Max thermal specs are as dondadah says..
CPU 100C (ark.intel.com)
GPUS 105C (according to aw)
and dont forget the NB: 100C (ark.intel.com)

So if youre under 90C id say youre ok.. and i never go over that.. used to with stock gpu paste to 92 but no more.. 85 is max now on them with hours of crysis.

BTW.: i now idle in middle 30s (36,38,38,37 / nb is still 44) and my max is now 76,75,78,76 / 75 nb.. it seams even mx-2 needs some time to set in.. didnt notice it before.. so scratch what i said last time.. even mx-2 needs curing time.. my temps are even lower now after a few days use

 

great i love that. hellcry and how is it over your place. is it hot or cold????

 

You guys are indeed at the forefront of this issue and need to take your findings directly to Flex.

http://www.flextronics.com/en/Investors/FAQs/tabid/73/Default.aspx

Anybody with good Powerpoint skills and a desire to sum this up in photos and graphs? Then bombard them with it until they answer, they cant really ignore you if you hound them and just keep contacting them.

 

i am not good at powerpoint but i can gather all the info that we need.

 

unfortunately that was already tried with the crappy vga driver issue. results = zero. Personally myself once a while I write them ranting about those issues.
But I fully support if anyone goes ahead with that idea.