Byebye R2, Oh r1 why did I doubt you!

As an external observer considering whether to get R1 over R2, I've firmly decided on getting an R1 simply because of Optimus and its effects on battery life. Knowing Nvidia's track record, they aren't likely to fix Optimus simply because they won't. Having had an N10 before, I prefer having manual switch of graphics because it's pain free, and I'm hopefully more intelligent than my computer in making decisions as to when my graphics should turn on. If I were to go on a full battery stretch, I would quite simply use the integrated rather than jumping about between integrated and dedicated.

Because Optimus is so incompetent in switching graphics at appropriate times (doesn't turn on when it needs to, or turns on when you don't need it), it's obviously going to have a detrimental effect on battery life. I don't know if I'm crazy, but I'm probably one of the only few that like having total control over my computer.

Ultimately, I say kudos to the OP, since it confirms my fears of what would happen in R2. Knowing that the performance increase isn't that drastic between i5 and SU7300, it's comforting to know that I can safely choose the cheaper and slightly weaker option without much regret

 

Now if they would just add Soft Touch to the R1, there would be no reason for me to choose R2.

 

How Did you manage to install that driver 258.69 ? i tried installing the one available on nvidia website.. but it wont work work with the m11x r2 , regarding optimus some games work perfectly and some not.. i just hope that everything works great soon.. i also want the nvidia to kick in during the windows experience index test i still get 3.4 score coz of the intel graphic adapter kicking in even when i chose from the nvidia control panal to use the nvidia gpu as my primary adapter. !

 

new hotness indeed

 

The new PhysX patch has alleviated almost all of Ninja's similar problems I was experiencing on my machine. Now that PhysX is working right, every game works for me amazingly except Just Cause 2.

I've been up all night trying to find the sweet spot on this thing, and for me I did

1. Disable Turbo in the Bios. This alone lowered my GPU and CPU temps by 10 degrees.

2. After disabling Turbo, use the OC option and set your fsb (or whatever) to 164.**

For those claiming there is no improvement with the overclock on this CPU. For those that are doing so, I have to ask, are you only going by benchmarks? Or are you playing games for an hour and using Fraps or Afterburner or EVGA precision. Because I'm
sorry, but benchmark averages do not equal real world gaming performance. This is a widely held belief among industry professionals and can be validated online somewhere. Benchmarks only give one real world info if one is comparing the benchmark against itself and seeing if any tweaks or changes give better numbers.

With that in mind I played Crysis Warhead with Turbo off and my OC set to 164 (this is a widely reported stable clock on I7's) and I got solid framerates in the 30's on "High" settings. The 164 OC with the Turbo off made the game fluid and playable at High settings. When I applied my GPU overclock and had the game do an automatic check and recommend optimal settings it went from recommending "Mainstream" (Medium) settings to "Gamer" (High Settings) in fact the game demanded it as if I tried to run the game at all Medium it was very graphically off. When I bumped it to a "higher" setting, it fixed itself and plays at a better graphical settings.

Ninja, I highly recommend getting that PhysX patch and give it another audition with the OC settings I mentioned. Turbo works but it is so sporadic it just heats everything up too much to instead turn it off and let it run at 164 the whole time and stay between 60-70 degrees no matter how hard you're gaming. At least that has been my experience over the last 10 hours with nary a glitch.

I wish I could take credit for all of this, but I found all this out bit by bit by hunting through these forums. Thank you so much to those that figured out these tweaks. Now I really feel like I got the machine I wanted.

As for the GPU OC, another poster around here mentioned how much clocking the GPU helped his gaming performance in R1.

With that I went to experimenting with different clock tweaks and found some really noticeable performance gains. Based on another poster's stable OC of 590/1200/900 I tried those and it was stable mostly until playing in game, then it would cause the machine to crash.

In owning an Asus G73JH, I learned that on that machine you can raise your core memory clock up by 100 (700-800) and it doesn't raise the temps at all anywhere.

So I tried it with the new Del beta drivers and MSI Afterburner and increased the core clock from 450 - 550 and did not get one degree in temp increase and played for over an hour and a half straight.

Now when I turned up the memory and shader clocks, temps shot up from high sixties to 80. So, I only turned up the shader clock from 1080 to 1100 and the memory clock from 790 to 800.

Like I said I could go higher and run the desktop or benchmarks all day, but when it came to stable gaming my numbers of 550/1100/800 was the performance sweet spot in that this OC "Did not raise my temps at all. Ever."

Combined with turning off Turbo which increases
over all temps by 10 degrees and then OC the machine to 164, %98 percent of my issues are now gone.

The PhysX patch put out yesterday for the R2 by Nvidia linked by Nautis is the life saving catalyst. Combined with the aforementioned tweaks, and I couldn't be happier with my purchase.

As for your battery problem, I wish I could be of more help. Honestly, I expected the battery to taoe that hit with the updated components. But I purposely wanted more pretty graphics and performance over battery life. But I don't travel much so for me the trade off makes sense.

So if those tweaks seem to run on more than one machine, as I got them all off these
forums, I would wager they will also work on yours (if you have i7 and 4gb that is) and that with those adjustments you will see considerable performance gains over the R1 that will make you feel justified in upgrading.

I say, try the above mentioned tweaks on the R2 and then Pepsi Challenge it with your R1. But don't do it with Benchmarks. You won't get true results. Try it by playing games (They say after 15min of heavy play your temps for 15min to an hour. pretty much hit the peak. They'll raise by only 1 or 2 degree increases after, after long periods of time)

And use Fraps or MSI or EVGA and compare Fraps average you get from playing the same section.

I truly believe that with all those conditions met, you'll be changing your mind like I have and fall in love with the unit.

Now, if losing an hour of battery isn't worth the considerable performance gains those setting should give u (barring a different config)

Then yeah, you might want to seriously consider going back to the R1. But if you didn't want the extra "pretty" why upgrade in the first place?

Try the R2 with those settings against your M1. You'll find your heat issues severly diminished with Turbo off; The kind of performance gains one would expect when springing for an I7 upgrade (164 is the magic #! With NO turbo! You'll crash! )

And with most game stability issues resolved (at least for me) with the new PhysX patch and Beta driver, also recognizing and giving true optimus performace - I believe your only reservation left is battery.

Pepsi challenge them with my OC settings and if you find the performance increase so good that you don't mind losing the battery time (I believe that will be fixed with a driver/bios update) - Then you have your answer! If not then you go back to the R1.

I don't have an R1 so for all I know it's still not much better. But if you search the threads you'll find that 24 hours ago I was mighty torked off at this netbook. But now with the tweaks implemented, I feel like I got a portable Ferrari.

I hope all of this will help you'll consider Pepsi challenging it. I'd hate to see you make a move on a mistaken buyers remorse, which is really not that but typical early adoption issues we all are experiencing. Issues that always go with being the first to own a prized new piece of electronics. If you want to get technical about it. I'd hate to see you get rid of it, and then find out later that with driver updates and tweaks, it did end up being the machine you originally wanted. And who knows where you'll be financially in 6 months, when you own it in your hands now.

Please reconsider and try again with these adjustments. The gaming performance improvements b/w the R1 and R2 are there. You just havent seen them yet, but I did.

Trust me, you want to keep your R2. I know now I do and am, when less than 17 hours ago I was ready to return it.

Let us know how it turns out, as I'd love to hear the results.

Cheers,

(This from my phone, so apologies for any grammar errors)

 

totally agree with you. everyone have their own liking. go for what you really think suits you is definitely the best answer. as for me i am still happy with my R2 as i can live with the current battery life. however one thing weird enuf is that i dont feel too much heat from my baby. i dont have a R1 to compare with so I cant comment much in regards to that. But for sure its running cooler and quieter than my previous Y450. battery is a lot better too. for all these already fulfill what i am looking for. most importantly the size is what i love about.

 

Jesus. I want to +1 rep you just for typing that monster of a post out on your phone!!

 

Mother of god......

You just wrote a masters thesis on your phone, I am impressed.

 

He would have written it on his R2 but halfway through typing it optimus kicked in to spell check and the battery ran out.

 

Great post THX5334! Very easy to read and very intelligent as well
Thanks to your suggestions, I was able to improve my MW2 performance by 6-7+ FPS. +rep to your sir

 

Finally someone has listened to my argument against the R2 !! :


My old laptop was a pentium II windows 98 that try as I might could not get me laid . I dreamed of one day owning a computer that was 100 times better with the form factor of an ultra portable which would make women go topless at the sight of me playing modern video games all alone in the library, on the bus, at a party, and in the woods . Then the m11x r2 came around and to my disappointment topless women did not appear before my eyes ! I suspected that because my battery only lasted 5.5 hours, I simply wasn't waiting the 6.5 hours I figured I needed to wait in order for these women to appear . Then I came across these forums only to find out about the R1 !!! Topless women appeared after exactly 6.5 hours of not plugging in the laptop at the library and then a fed ex guy appeared with an envelope. "That's strange," I wondered. I opened the package, and out fell a cellphone into my hand. It began ringing. I answered, "...Morpheus?" To which a man replied, "Yes sir, this is Morpheus at Dell support. We were just calling to tell you congratulations sir, and you have won our surprise contest."
"What contest?"
"Okay sir, we actually just made the M11x R2 as a practical joke, we weren't ever planing on supporting or fixing it in the future. And you sir have made the right choice to pick the R1 because the other is fake and hocus pocus."
"Mhmm, yeah I know that's what I was telling all these guys online,"
"Yes sir, the ones who purchase the R2 have heads filled with rocks, you were smart sir to choose the R1 , and as such we will be awarding you topless women as soon as your battery outlasts the R2 by an hour."
"Yeah, I see the topless women, thank you so much I was expecting this anyhow."
"Very good sir, is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"Ah yeah I just wanted to be clear that the core 2 duo can not be removed in case one of those guys with rocks for brains tries to sneak the i7 core in my R1 in order to take away my topless women."
"Certainly not sir. No need to worry, the processor is a fixed piece of hardware. You made a very good choice not to pick the more powerful core, since it would void the prize we have sent, and you would certainly have rocks for brains to do so sir "

And there you have it, Morpheus said so himself, and my point is proven that the R2 is for someone with rocks for brains, I will be enjoying topless women and my R1 thank you very much!

 

THx- what is the actual clock rate for the dual core cpu's with turbo off and oc @ 160-166?

Thanks,

StevenX

 

I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to take a screen shot of my EVGA E-Leet screen. If anyone needs pic. proof, let my ignorant self know what to do and I'll be happy to oblige. For now, I'm going to type it out as it's shown. If I'm missing anything or misreading your question, apologies.

According to EVGA E-Leet:

Clocks:
Core Speed: 1479.4 MHz
Multiplier: X9.0
Bus Speed: 164.4 MHz
QPI Link: 1972.4 MHz

Cache:
L1 Data 2x32 KBytes 8-way
L1 Inst. 2x32 KBytes 4-way
Level 2 2x256 KBytes. 8-way
Level 3 4 MBytes 16-way

If there's anything specific you want to know from this or HWinfo, just let me know and I'll be happy to report it.

Cheers

 

@Thx - Thanks.. nobody said anything about anyone being an idiot. Assume positive intent please. Since I dont have a R2 I was curious about actual cpu speed.. As you can judge for yourself I bench very high in games and I too don't care much for 3dmark. Best wishes, StevenX

 

Optimus looks like a disaster to me; I don't have real problems with my R1, running almost everything fine, and, well, the only problem I have with it is that the LCD cover is popping out a little bit every 2-3 days. Isn't much of a problem :S.

I also spent just 800 Euro's (1 Euro is $1,23) on mine (Excluding delivery costs), and since I'd bought the i7 if I had the opportunity, I would have to pay a stunning 1338,01 Euro's for it, with 4GB ram and 320GB HDD. Well, 500 Euro's is quite alot for just an i7 which isn't that great.

Oh btw, 1338 euro's is $1681.46 That's alot of money.

 

Look, it's not a "who wins" sort of situation. This is a give and take situation. Drivers and what not will be fixed in a few months, and there are ALREADY minor solutions! Anyway, the give and take:

R1:
-better battery life
-lower temp
-reliable but not as *slick* as r2...

R2:
-better processor (for overall system performance; hyperthreading, turboboost, ect...)
-Optimus (good with the right drivers, apparently)
-automated but needs a little tlc to work for you...

Basically, I prefer the R2 cause I plan on using emulators, so I need all the processor speed I can get . Still, I just want to say that it's useless to say "THIS IS BETTER, THE OTHER THING DOESN'T WORK." We should instead be thinking, "this is good FOR ME."

 

The best compromise is having both Optimus and manually switchable graphics (and a more smarter/efficient processor). I was under the impression that the user has a choice to switch on/off Optimus. And I already knew that i7 UM is pretty weak for the amount of power/heat it generates and wastes.

So that said, Alienware, have you considered AMD processors?

 

Ummmm, personally, I hope not! AMD may offer some decent clock speeds, but they don't really match up to intel when it comes to tech like hyperthreading and turbo boost....

 

I hope not, I wouldn't have even considered buying my m11x if it had been using AMD processors.

AMD and Intel have historically see-sawed for performance, but the AMD machines I've owned have never satisfied me as well as comparable Intel units.

 

I completely agree.

I have been following this thread pretty intently, and I get the feeling that sometimes people who posts here are trying to justify why they did not wait/not upgrade to the R2.

I think each of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 m11x has its benefits, and will specifically cater to the owner's special requiresments. If you own the R1 or R2, or soon to be the owner of either, I am sure, if you walk into the purchase being aware of the strong points of each, you will not have any buyers remorse. I think this is what this thread is about at the end of the day.

 

btw, I was not able to run Cities XL (city life, kinda like simcity) on my R1 and I am able to run it smooth on my new R2.

 

All bantering etc aside, i purchased my m11x r1 a couple of months ago with the su4100, 4gb ram and a 500g hd. The only doubt i had about the machine was the su4100. As it happens its actually fine for everything i need to do on it.
If i could justify the extra £300 the i7 would cost for the same set up or if it was the same price i would jump at the chance to own the R2.
Im sure the optimus issue will be sorted before long and im sure this will have a positive impact on the battery also(personally i dont care if mine lasts 4,5 or 8 hours as im never too far from power)
so if you can afford the extra and it isnt vital to have an extra hour or so use, my vote would go with the more powerful i7 R2.

 

Oh, what I forgot to bring up is how messed up this upgrade is!

When you upgrade something, you expect the upgrade to REPLACE the original model. The upgrade isn't supposed to just offer another choice! I hope the R3 fixes that, the R3 being a replacement, NOT an alternative. XP

 

Not trying to justify my purchase. I sold a M17 (2x3870) with a 3dmark score of 12200 to get this notebook. I love it. I just like to push the limits to see what she can do. That's why I purchased an Alienware. (Insert my opinion here) I will say this. I tend to like hardware and systems that i can control myself. The saving grace of the I7 on our system is the ability to OC which puts some control back in the owners hands. So far i am not a fan of the optimus. This is just because my preference is gaming, not battery life.

To each person their own. We have paid or dues to Alienware...

Best wishes,

StevenX

 

I know what one i'm getting now

 

oh, apologies for the miscommunication! That remark was just an attempt at humility and not is to convey that I was inferring anything less than positive intent! You'll have to forgive me, as I've been pulling an all nighter at work.

All I was trying to say that in 2010, this fairly serious 36 year old gamer was still not internet savvy enough to take a screenshot and post it in a forum.

That was the root of my idiot remark. Sorry, I didn't mean to associate that term with anything you were asking, and was just referring to my sad lack of basic HTML knowledge.

I'm getting nothing but sunny vibes from you, bro. I'm just so out of it from lack of sleep I'm not communicating very well.

I don't know if those are speeds are worth upgrading since so many games are still coded in DX9 because it's a port of a single build designed for home consoles, and are now GPU intensive more than anything. The only games I know of that are really CPU intensive is Shattered Horizon. And I'm assuming any RTS, but I don't really play those.

The point I originally was trying to make was to refute the claim of others that overclocking the i7 did not give any noticeable performance gain over the RI CPU's. And this was based soley on benchmarks.

And I wanted to refute that because that wasn't my experience with games and I didn't want new buyers already having buyers remorse on an R2 based on benchmarks from a stranger.

My bad!

 

Well I own a M11x r1 Ive had it for about 2-3 months so I wnat to know if is a massive performance increase or not that much...

 

Overstatement. It's nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. In fact it's perfect with the 257 drivers.

 

I totally agree. It's forcing the 335 for apps I want it to and once they're set I don't have to think about it anymore.

 

At this point it is still a struggle just to get equal performance from the R2. After all the issues are fixed the performance looks to be about the same for most games, with some very small improvements in a few games.

However, the trade-off is that the R2 loses significant battery life, the R1 would easily get in the 8+ hour range and most R2 people are saying they get 5-6 hours max.

Short version, there is almost no situation where an R1 owner would need to upgrade to an R2, the performance difference just isn't their for the cost.

 

Hmm, well I don't really know what the fuss is, I have my R2 OC to 164 w/ TB, stable for the past couple days and the speed difference is ridiculous in day to day stuff...night and day to the R1, at any given moment my loest clock is 1.5 and boosts up to just below 2.8...I know, ppl will say"..hey but what about 3dmark" well 3dmark as all the other bench marks are synthetic tests, stressing different components and quantifying their values separately, then summarizing the whole to try and give a fluid picture of performance. Anyone familiar with oc'ing knows that there can be significant differences vs real world usage.
When the hd 5970 just came out, ppl where getting lower 3dmark06 scores when they oc'ed the GPU too, did it mean the GPU was realling slower in games?..no it just meant the testing tools were flawed. Come 3dmark vantage and the real value of the OC was verified. Point is synthetic benchmarks aren't everything..CPU-Z shows 2.78Ghz, no way is someone going to tell me that thay theirs at stock performs better just because 3dmarck says so, or at least theirs no difference...dude I had both and THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

Fine, if you want battery life by all means get the R1, its stilll an awesome machine, but for me I'll lose that 1hr battery life (still get 5.5 on the R2, whihc I think is respectable) and keep the performance gains any day of the week. And I'll stay overclocked...while waiting for these drivers to mature, and they will.

 

Very true, syntetic benchmarks aren't everything. However, there's been varying reports about some games definitely having FPS gains, and some others (noticably World of WarCraft) having the opposite (unstable FPS, worse than R1). Could be a driver issue, but... I have a fishy feeling about it all. I pray that there is no hidden throttling going on with the R2.

 

Good tip. You're right, I went back and turned on Turbo and things are running even better and stay between 1.6 and 2.8

I agree with your sentiments. We'll said.

 

As I'm sure all of you know, gaming is mainly GPU bound, so upgrading the processor will only give a noticeable gaming difference in games that are bottlenecked by the processor (GTA4 ect...).

More power = less battery

Uh, yeah, there ARE situations where you should upgrade! Unfortunately this isn't a traditional upgrade, where it's a replacement. In this case, it's an alternative. And STILL, some people NEED that extra boost in processor speed! I like to run emulators, I want my system to be future proof, and all those little extras the i series gives over the C2D (hyperthreading, turbo boost, ect) are really worth the extra price and other trade offs for me. But someone else might NEED that extra bit of battery, in which case the R1 is a really good solution. Other people may really hate the lack of control with optimus, again, the R1 would be a viable option. But to say it's not worth it AT ALL is a bit of an overstatement...

 

@THX5334
This is sorta off topic but i was just wondering which tool you use to overclock the gpu msi or evga percision?

Thanks
Mac

 

Yea, I understand benchmarking is a hobby for some on this board, but making inaccurate statements that's supposed to reflect the laptop as whole is misleading. Some ppl still want to do other things than sit around and benchmark all day ( I have a 6core, 5970 beast for that), some ppl want to knwo how this thing actually functions as a gaming machine AND a portable computer. Case inpoint the old R1 took >15 sec load iTunes actually 25 secs when I counted, the R2 with my OC took 10sec to do the same thing..real world. Microsoft 07' took almost 8 sec to load R1, R2 4-5sec..real world. To ME that's what counts. But hey, if benchmarking a 11" laptop is your thing without taking all the other aspects of makes a laptop truly form meeting function..by all means

Just sayin'..

 

I also find it confusing how some people compare the r1 and r2 SOLELY on gaming performance and battery life. Processor speed, like you just said, effects day to day computer use, not so much gaming. Not to say processor speed can't be a bottle neck, as we have seen with GTA4. But still, I find it a little unfair to compare the r1 and r2 solely on gaming performance.

 

Its a gaming notebook, thus gaming is what is used to judge it. Sounds fair to me. I have to say that after looking at all the benchmarks, I am quite content with my R1. I actually use the vga port and battery life is important to me. I also like how cool it runs. After seeing how buggy Optimus is in reality, I will happily keep the toggle switching to keep in control. The fact that most games are within a couple of FPS of one another between the systems makes me firmly believe the R1 is a much better COMPLETE package. The most bang for the buck while maintaining things that I originally purchased the system for.

 

Well Im sure people use gaming laptops for other things besides gaming. For example, people don't judge the iphone based on how well you can make calls on it...

I'm glad you're enjoying your r1.

 

For those who have a VGA monitor, for the R2, I believe you can just get a display port to VGA cable and you're good to go. You will still be able to use two external monitors using the DP and HDMI at the same time, but Optimus will only work for the Primary monitor.

 

In the UK, it also seams as if the R1 only comes with 2GB memory. This would be a big factor in me getting the R2.

 

Well really it is an opinion, but one I think is pretty valid for most working class people. Now to be clear, I am saying it is not worth getting rid of an R1 you currently own to try and get an R2. If you are buying your first M11X or whatever then there is really no argument against getting the R2, unless you just really want the extra battery life.

However, my post was directed to the guy who wondered if he should sell his R1 to get an R2, and I don't see how that would ever be worth it. It is $300 just for the base price difference between R1 and R2. Then when he sells his R1 he is pretty much guaranteed to lose $200-$400 depending on the units condition and the original price he payed.

That means to upgrade from an R1 to an R2 a current R1 owner is looking at $500-$700 minimum in additional money spent. For that $500-$700 he will get a few seconds faster loading, some sub-5 FPS improvements, more heat, and less battery. He would have to be very well off and not put much value in money to feel like that is worth $500-$700 more over the R1 he already owns.

Again, I am not saying anything negative about the R2, and if I was buying my first M11X today it would probably be an R2, but if someone owns an R1 today it really is not worth it to upgrade to an R2. Especially when within the next year we will almost certainly see a R3 with upgraded GPU, that will give something like 50% improved FPS in all games. Much smarter to wait for the R3 and skip a generation, since the R2 doesn't add much for the cost.

 

Ahhh, OK, now I see what you mean. Yeah, financially it makes little sense to upgrade if you already own an r1, by the points you just made. At the price your paying, you might as well wait a year for the r3.

I really think Dell introducing the r2 was more adding a choice, rather then a direct replacement to the old system. There for, I believe both have their own trade offs. Both have their differences, but in the end, were all getting our m11x.

Sorry for the mix up dude!

 

I have to say the R2 is starting to grow on me. Running with GPU O/C, CPU, O/Ced to 154FSB, and turbo enabled both GPU and CPU stay under 70C which is fine for this notebook. Under a tweaked balanced profile, I can squeeze 4 hours of surfing on WiFi which is good enough. The unit is fairly quite under surfing and video playback. Gaming is can get noisy, but this is expected. The optimus issues will get ironed out. So far of the games I have tested, everything ran fine (mainly source games/Steam) Just waiting on my SSD to come in. We shall see how this will affect the R2's battery draw.

 

Not sure where you have heard that but John lewis and PC world R1 both comes with 4 gigs not 2 gigs:

Buy Dell Alienware Laptop, M11X/4778, 1.3GHz with 11 Inch Display online at JohnLewis.com

 

Decided to send my R2 back today, will look at it down the road when all the kinks are worked out. Right now to many hoops to jump through to get optimus working right....Until then my recent MX17 r2 will keep me happy. Good Luck guys , I think evetually the M11x r2 will be all that its meant to be.

 

There seems to be the expectiation whether R1 or R2 that the computer is the answer for everyone. Let's remember that this thing is about the size of a large netbook, there will have to be comprimises in performance and battery life. for me R1 has the battery life and the small size factor that i need while on an airplane. I'll wait for R4 before thinking about buying another alien M11x.

 

i'll wait for IPS lcd screen.

 

Forget R4 wait for the hinges to be like other notebooks

 

Never going to happen. TN is the future for all laptops for a while. Except for Ultra high end 17 inch 1080P screens.