M11x Fan "always on/stuck" Behavior Discussion

Awesome! Now, what's a TIM swap? How do you do that? Would you say, that solved the problem for you or would you like to see even further fan improvements?

 

TIM is short for Thermal Interface Material which is essentially the conductive goo in between the CPU/GPU and heatsink. To change it requires dismantling the entire machine down to the motherboard. So it isn't for the timid or inexperienced. I wouldn't recommend it unless you've done it before and are comfortable handling delicate electronics.

Even though it seems for the moment that I don't have any issues with the fan I don't believe Dell did a very good job with the cooling solution. The fan shouldn't toggle between 0 RPM and hairdryer speed. There are discrete steps in between. Dell needs to fix it.

 

Has anyone tried using a program like riva tuner to adjust fan speed based on GPU/CPU temp?

 

Thanks for the explanation! I could bring the computer to a computer repair center around the corner and have it "fixed". Would you recommend that? I assume you lose your warranty by doing such heavy adjustments, right?

 

I've posted on this thread earlier so look at my original post for info related to this update.

Don't any of you guys have the 1 year repair on site warranty with Dell? After attempting in vain to diagnose the loud fan as a software issue and reinstalling Windows, Alienware Support will be sending a technician onsite to replace the motherboard or replace my entire system. The fan keeps coming on/off every few mins and it's really annoying. However, IMO as a techie, it seems to either be a problem with the TIM or else a badly rushed out BIOS which cannot control the fan speeds correctly. I am not sure whether replacing it will actually make a difference. Even the senior reps @ Alienware don't have enough info at the moment on what the issue could be...i'll keep you all updated on my progress!

 

That does not sound very long-term healthy. Even though the chip is just 1.6 oc'd, their is still heat that needs to be dissipated- especially when watching Flash vid and playing 3D games. More so with the 335m running. Perhaps the fan is coming on, but real low. I have noticed that on mine.

As I am sure you have noticed, the passive cooling system in the M11x is not the best, do to form factor, so the M11x chipset needs some fan action

 

I really look forward to hearing back from you! If the fan noise improved after replacing the motherboard, I'll definitely call Dell to do the same with mine. Otherwise, we can't do anything else than wait for a new BIOS update.

You can all save this link to Dell's Drivers & Download page and check it on a regular basis for new BIOS updates:
http://support.dell.com/support/dow...bIndex=&scanSupported=False&scanConsent=False

 

Are those of you who are experiencing problems able to reproduce the excessive fan noise after leaving your system powered off overnight, just to be sure we aren't dealing with a hot CPU? Do the fans ramp right away to full speed/volume when you enable the discrete graphics solution? What kind of surface are you using the M11x on? Are there other environmental variables involved? Additional details to help understand this would be appreciated, as I can't duplicate this issue on my machines.

 

To review from all the other threads:

- The AlienFX application (tray) - when loaded, etc., loads WMIPrvSE.exe which constantly pegs the CPU anywhere from 8%-12%. My unit was basically doing the same as other's have noted here - in that the fan would consistently turn on/off (in either graphics mode) until I disabled this application via CCleaner (msconfig). Additionally - when I change the colors / lights - I ensure the application saves the data and immediately exit the tray application. If you run procmon on this program - it's CONSTANTLY reading the registry with a BUFFER TOO SMALL error - not sure why - but explains the persistent CPU usage.
- Now that I've removed the application - in IGP mode - the machine rarely fires up the fan, except under pretty decent load (i.e. multiple windows / youtube / hulu, etc.) - switching to Discrete Graphics (NVIDIA) immediately places the fan into the mode everyone describes (on/off every few minutes). There *is* no ramp-up to the fan in this mode, it's only ON or OFF. If there was - I don't think you'd see as many complaints. Personally - I'm not surprised it's on (graphics card = hot - duh) - nor does it bother me that much. I should state it's much more noticeable on a flat desk/table surface than say on my lap or say, when sitting on a thin piece of cloth material (like a tablecloth / etc.).
- When switching back to IGP from Discrete graphics - the fan still continues to throttle on/off, even well after the CPU / GPU have returned to the previously noted/expected operating temps (as monitored by GPUZ / CoreTemp). The fans, at least on my unit, typically kick in around 39/40C.
- However, if you immediately reboot / logoff and log back on - typically the fan will stop in IGP mode. This indicates that the software controlling the fan may have a bug with regards to swapping between Graphic modes.

Now, to give you a comparison - I have an HP Elitebook 6930p - that typically runs the fan ALL the time. However, it should be noted that this fan is at a MUCH lower RPM all the time as well as it ramps up depending on usage - more or less a dull white noise scenario versus the alarming "hairdryer" on/off of the M11X. Additionally - when the M11x does kick on - it's typically 50-100% louder than the elitebook - and they're sitting side by side on my desk.

I believe there's 2 overall issues that contribute to the fan issue:
- Rogue AlienFX program causing CPU utilization - heating the CPU to the "throttle" point of the fan (around 39/40C)
- Fan doesn't ramp up - it's either on/off - it should really have a low, medium, high ramp at a minimum.

 

Aw, come on.

Someone should try this.

I mean... are you fans really more loud than this?

 

I am ok with fan noise, my issue with the fan not throttling down when the system idles. This was reported by several users as well. This is not consistent, but it happens frequently when running on integrated graphics.

To reproduce it: stress CPU until fan turns on, stop stressing cpu and wait until fan stops cooling cpu, if it stops, repeat again until it doesn't stop and keeps cooling cpu.

It didn't matter what surface it's on, but in my case it was a computer desk.

 

I changed my TIM and load temps look good - especially with the GPU but fan still likes to run. I think fan needs to be changed not to run at 38c-40C. My max temp on my current session is 42C but fans are constantly running max rpm.. IGP.

 

This is a simple bios issue and expect Dell will roll out a fix soon.

 

Aliensense > Advanced > uncheck blurred video.

 

Originally Posted by duffyanneal

Since I replaced the TIM my fan usually doesn't run at all when on integrated graphics and overclocked SU7300. If I push it hard then yes the fan will spin up for a few seconds every once in a while, but I can watch Hulu, Youtube, etc. without the fan spinning up. This was not the case before I did the TIM swap.

I can replace this with a good quality thermal paste, but, 1 Question.

I have the 2 year extended warranty. Will this void it?

 

Only if you tell them lol. There are no seals/stickers to break off so as long as you take your time, you're in the clear.

 

Seems like a rushed implementation (bios, software) of the fan behavior. Dell/Alienware should look into this, since I can imagine it being very annoying.
Also, the fan doesn't need to be triggered at 40C, I think around 50C is more normal?

 

Must admit the fan seems to come on sometimes and only blowing cool air, which suggests an overly active fan.

 

So is this normal for the fan? Mine is constantly running in IGP and quite annoying now after a week's use. I might call in to just mention and it see what's up.

 

^^^^ same here mine just started yesterday.

 

I assume each component is made the "same" but don't always come off the assembly line equal? Perhaps the ones having overactive fans have hotter components that trigger the systems cooling more often? For such a small and powerful laptop, I would think the cooling system in place would be very sensitive. Just a guess really. BTW mine hardly ever comes on in IGP and is pretty low when gaming, probably due to the cooler and new TIM. From surfing the web right now I'm at 27C.

 

it's a probably a bug in the firmware. I brought it up earlier in this thread. Fan gets stuck running in IGP even when CPU is cooled down. The workaround I found for this is to put computer to sleep and bring it back up, then fan will turn off. Lets start a new thread on this, so we can keep this issue separate from fan noise.

 

No need for a new thread - thread title has been changed.

 

I already created one before you changed it, you can delete if you really have to, but I would like to keep it separate

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=465933

In any case that's pretty major bug with fan getting stuck in my opinion because it affects battery life and obviously gets annoying. I hope it's a bug fixable by firmware.

 

If your fan is not shutting off at all when going from discrete to integrated we can leave the new thread. The majority of the pages here touch on this issue but I'm fine with it if you want to have separate thread for it. I just dont want to have two threads where we are discussing the same issue as it makes it difficult for our resident aliens to monitor and respond.

 

Is it very loud?

 

On a desk in a very quite room - sorta..

On the berber carpet in the floor while browsing and watching TV - no...

I've also noticed that if I change to the "Power Saver" mode while in IGP - the fan rarely, if ever, comes on...

 

villosa 27C is amazing. I dunno why my CPU is really warm right now on IGP. It's sitting at 46C just listening to music and web browsing. My temps have gone up tremendously in the past few days =/ It's really killing my battery life.

after setting it down on the table to use it's back down to 41C ish for CPU. still sucky.

 

I agree. The fan does not behave well and I am typing this now on the M11x and had to close the lid to put in sleep and then reopen to get it out of high fan mode. Thing is I only watched a Hulu vid for twenty minutes, yet STILL kicks in on high. Fan kicks in too much and even when "cool" with no 3D games.

 

Man I really don't know what to say. It really sucks reading all these temperature problems springing up. I'm having the best of luck with mine so far *knock on wood* and it pains me to see that someone who has reapplied TIM sit at 46C on IGP. If it keeps up go ahead and PM me and we'll try to figure out what went wrong.

 

what programs do yall use to record temperature?

 

I use Real Temp, OCCT, and Everest cause I'm obsessive compulsive lol. Need to make sure...

 

All Dell uses on any laptop is a thermal pad for their TIM. These are bad.

If you make the effort to replace the TIM and dont see a fairly drastic improvement then you did something wrong..... either you have an uneven application, or too much/too little.

I'm going to wait for at least one BIOS revision before I worry about the TIM unless its really bad.

 

Zlog, there's only a thermal pad on what I believe is the northbridge or whatever. On the actual CPU and GPU there was paste. I saw decrease in maximum GPU temps by 4C though. But for idling it's not helped much.

 

Ok just got the M11x and my fan goes off and on full blast about every 1 minute on IGP. Core Temp shows 47c (real temp shows it at 36c) then it goes up to 53c (core temp) after a few minutes the fan kicks in and brings it down to 47 turns off and repeats the process. It is very annoying. I don't think the fan should kick on full until 65c seeing as Tj max is 105c.

 

if the computer is booted from integrated it shouldnt turn on, but if you go to discrete back to integrated the fan doesnt change. just close the lid and reopen and see if that fixes it

 

I tried that to and still have the same fan issue. I even put the processor back to the stock speed. Its as if it only has one speed when it turns on. When on the battery the fan almost never comes on.

 

Fyi CoreTemp is not showing accurate temp reading, try Real Temp or Speed Fan

 

Everest isn't showing my temps properly either. It's about 6C higher than everyone else and everyone else is in agreement so...Everest loses lol.

 

here is how screwed up core temp for my zino http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3268/tempih.jpg

 

Lol that's a big difference. I wouldn't even have known if it wasn't for OCCT's temp graph after a test.

 

Not sure if this was posted already somewhere... but for those of you who use HWMonitor, you will need to edit the hwmonitorw config file (located in the HWMonitor directory) in order for the correct temp to be reported. By default, the config file is set for a TJMAX of 100.

Be sure HWMonitor is not running when editing the config or the change will be overwritten.

Change to:

[HWMonitor]
VERSION=1.1.5.0
USE_ACPI=1
USE_SMBUS=1
USE_SMART=1
USE_DISPLAY=1
CPU_0_TJMAX= 105.0

 

I didn't get specific in what I was referring too, and thermal pad was the wrong wording.

Dell uses a little square of paste, it has clear plastic on both sides of it. You peel one side off and set it on the CPU and tap it so it sticks a bit, and then peel off the second plastic piece and install the cooling assembly.

It definitely isn't a pad, but it certainly isn't high quality thermal compound either.

I'm really glad to see it didn't change your idles though, that means the system really does run nicely.... I might not bother messing with it in that case.

 

erawneila, do you know if this is a known issue yet?

How many "phases/speeds" should the fan transition through? Surely it shouldn't go from passive/off to full-blast right?

It should go through 4 phases, like most laptops out there seem to do now days:

OFF -> LOW -> MED -> HIGH

Right??

Obviously OFF will not be most cases, but LOW should be 80% of the time with this laptop. 50-55c is practically cold now days for a laptop and that seems to be the load temp I'm seeing most people post with.. MED should be the highest the fan ever has to go without stress-testing or heavy gaming, and even then HIGH would have to be like heavy gaming on a hot day with no AC to get anywhere near a thermal thresh hold....

 

I think the one with the thermal pad is the IGP. The GPU and CPU have that cheap thermal whatever Zlog said but the IGP is simply a thermal pad.

 

It can also be the power profile... try editing your Performance profile to allow the CPU to downclock while idle. It wont effect your performance at all, but if you don't want to always switch your profile around between gaming and not gaming, it could help. Min CPU State 1% or whatever it is.

 

I would also think it should have four stages.

 

I'm guessing that pad helps fill a gap between the chipset and the heatsink? Do you think TIM would work there or another pad? If that is the IGP, then it's connected to the CPU heatsink which could cause the CPU temps to increase due to the sharing.

 

Yeah I'm almost sure that it is the IGP since on my older desktop mobo the IGP was cooled by just a small chipset cooler. For my M11x I just left it alone since the gap between the chip and heatsink was too wide for thermal paste and I didn't have another thermal pad. The stock one seems to do ok though, I just made sure I pressed down on it with a little pressure to get a real good contact (I wished that part had hold down screws too).

 

This is a response from an alienware rep about the fan issue.

"I've seen a couple reports of fan issues, but so far, we haven't been able to reproduce any of them in house on our machines. I do have a capture coming in that supposedly runs the fans constantly (which it shouldn't), so hopefully that will help us figure it out. If there is a problem with the BIOS, it will be fixed. Given that only a handful of them appear to have a problem, it might be best to ask for an exchange or service call on the one you have if it is that annoying. There may be something wrong with your particular fan or the assembly."