M11x Fan "always on/stuck" Behavior Discussion

UPDATED:

I received my new system, so I have both right now to compare to. My primary concern was lcd gap/warp which is why I wanted replacement on the first place but I also hoped for quieter fan in a replacement system. So here is what I got with the new system:

- Gap/Warp is gone
- SEC screen
- Less whiny fan
- Hitachi Hard Drive
- Idle temps 5 degrees lower as reported by Real Temp

The fan itself is moving as much air, but what improved is a whining noise. Which is virtually gone, there is still some whining noise during start.

 

To me the fan issue is a problem with the BIOS. I can be on the battery and it will never go on unless watching a video then it might go on. When on the battery it will not go on much until I turn on the GPU. After that it will go on and off alot. If I turn the GPU off it still acts as if the GPU is on. I think everyone has this issue until Dell/AW gets a BIOS fix out.

 

Well, as far as frequency of fan on/off cycles it looks like it's the same, but what's odd is that temperatures are about 5 degrees less on a new system during idle as reported by Real Temp

 

What are your temps? On mine, Real temp shows 42c idle with max performance, CPU OCed and GPU on. With IGP, CPU OCed and max performance I'm around 31c.

 

It's not a problem with the BIOS because only a few units are doing it. BIOS issue would cause ALL units to have the problem.

It's most likely a bad batch of fans that came out, that don't scale their speed well/like they should.

Fan speed is adjusted by increasing/decreasing the voltage running to the fan, and its possible theres a batch of units that went out with fans that just don't handle what they are receiving well.

Call and ask for a tech to swap out your mobo cooling assembly, should be quick and painless. buy thermal goop and have the tech use that so you get new TIM while you're at it.

 

The pc was on for about an hour, these are the temps are for basic browsing. Fan behavior is still the same with less whine noise. Fan kicks in at about 36 and cools it down to 30

I have 2 units now, one from latest batch and fan behavior is identical, although temps reported are different now.

 

But not everyone has the noisy fans. BIOS issue would cause EVERY SINGLE M11x to be a vacuum cleaner.

I'm getting both of mine either tomorrow or Saturday. I'll report in with my opinions.

I do agree that if the BIOS only has LOW and HIGH that something needs to be changed with the thresh hold that causes it to switch to high.

Either an internal component that we arn't measuring is getting way too warm (much warmer then the 36c trigger point you seem to have) and is causing the system to switch the fan to high, or the BIOS is just way too pro-active at cooling the cpu off. I personally dont want my fan going to high speed until it's over 50c

Does anyone have any clue what other sensors the motherboard has on it that we could monitor?

Perhaps the GPU, chipset, or something is getting much hotter and setting the fan off.

 

I would agree to have it kick on at 50c at a low speed. It seems the m11x only has med and hi for a speed. It doesn't seem to be able to throttle the fan either. I wouldn't mind the fan being on a lot plugged in if it was at a low speed.

 

I remember mentioning earlier that all components, such as the motherboard or cpu, are made to the same to specs but don't always behave the same, ie: higher temperatures or different OC's. These slight differences may set off a sensitive cooling system. Just a theory really.

 

No it acts more like a setting issue then a bad batch of fans. You will see when you get yours.

 

Here is a video guys of the problem with fan getting "stuck". All m11x probably have this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mUtDCt1Pn8&feature=player_embedded

 

^ thanks for the info on your new system Klas, still trying to work with Dell, they haven't been to helpful in actually calling me back like they said they would twice now..

 

What did you do in the beginning of the video, the cpu load seemed always pretty high?

 

To me my M11x is perfect except for the fan issues. Though mine doesn't get stuck on for ten minutes like the one posted above. I agree with others that this is an issue with all m11xs.

 

Again, if its a setting/bios issue, then explain why not everyone has the problem?

You're glossing over a pretty important question

"Why doesn't everyone have this issue?"

You can't just say "all of them probably do" because they just don't. The majority of people are not having issues.

I'm not saying that I wont have it, but it seems the odds are in favor of me not having the issue.

 

okay ..i just got my laptop early in the morning.. everything is fine.. except for this fan.. I can notice it in a silent room.. and sometimes it even grows more..especially when shifted to nvidea..
I disabled the startup things..which lowered cpu usage.. but this didnt help the fan to go low.

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible for it to be a BIOS/Setting issue, but I just don't understand why more people aren't reporting it, and why some people are saying they are not affected at all.

I'll be on here ing about it ASAP if mine do it

 

I can repost video with lower CPU usage, it doesn't really matter. There was browser opened on the background and it's not really a high usage for this cpu

 

theres no way a browser open takes 30% of the cpu, right?

 

Maybe there was something else I just didn't notice. I'll repost another video with low cpu usage and "stuck" fan. What really bugs me is that when the fan gets "stuck" especially in battery mode, the battery time goes down.

 

There you go. Btw as I was uploading the video same deal happened. Really annoying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSugbzi6xaM

 

I think the reason is most people are playing games or are used to desktop fan noise. Also when plaing games the fan is constant and seems normal. Its when the system is idle. I still say all the m11xs have this issue.

 

klas -

Couple of questions:

When idle - do you have the AlienFX tray icon running? (i.e. WMIPrvSE.exe running all the time - taking up around 5-12% CPU)? or did you disable this program?

Second - what power option/mode are you running when in IGP? Power? Balanced? Power Saver? I've found that if I set it to either Balanced or Power Saver - the fan rarely, if ever, comes on with the IGP. The exception to that rule is when you load video (i.e. Youtube, hulu, etc.) - occasionally the fan kicks on and gets somewhat "stuck" like yours - however - I usually either logoff/logon again or put it to sleep/back up again..

 

Well, my fan comes on playing games, sure, but not when idle, except after gaming for a little while. I've never heard this thing make any noises on IGP at all though.

 

For me the problem is my fan goes from being off, straight to a speed which is quite loud. If they would ramp the fan up slower I don't think there would be a problem. If I can't run a youtube video on IGP without the fan blasting then I don't think I'm going to be happy with the M11X.

One strange thing is I have noticed at times the fan running a very low speed, but most of the time it just goes from off to blast off. When it was on the very low speed it kind of made a low pulsating puffing sound - it did about 1 puff per second. It was spinning the whole time but it was like the power to the fan was being pulsed to keep it "just" spinning. Anyone else notice this?

 

I disabled AlienFx program and I am running Balanced all the time. I used to put it to sleep as a workaround, but instead I found out that switching to nvidia mode also works.

For me this "stuck" fan issue is a big deal, because my primary use is on battery power doing basic tasks.

 

Well - one other question then - have you tried resetting the BIOS to it's defaults? I swear that I had a similar issue - then at one point, I know I reset the BIOS (i.e. load setup defaults) because I was screwing around with it - ever since then the fan has turned on/off as I'd expect it to.

 

Mine just arrived, I really hope I don't have any of these issues. Ugh...

So should I avoid OC'ing it until a bios revision is out to avoid potential issues?

 

I suggest OC'ing now just to make sure you don't get lockups and BSOD's. After that feel free to use it however =)

 

I did not mess with the system at all, at least with the 2nd replacement, so everything had default settings. I haven't even tried overclocking yet. When I got the notebook I simply started doing my usual thing which is browsing internet, youtube, fan started kick in at some point and then fan would get stuck after about an hour use.

 

Well I hope you guys can help me out, I can't find exact way to reproduce this issue to let the Alienware techs know, but if it happens on yours please post here and what you were doing for it to happen.

 

Here is a consistently reproducible test in 2 m11x. Can someone please try this:

1. Make sure laptop already been used for while and warmed up and set it on a flat surface (I was also running in on battery and set to balanced mode)
2. Set to Integrated Graphics
3. Reboot machine
4. Let it idle for 15 mins (make sure your CPU usage is at minimum)

Result: Fan will not turn on at all!

So lets make things a bit more interesting:

5. Switch to Nvidia Graphics mode
6. Wait until fan kicks in
7. Switch it back to Integrated
8. Let it idle and wait until fan turns off

Result: Fan behavior changed. It will now turn on ever 1-2 minutes and will be trying to cool down the system for 3-5 mins. It looks like as if fan control is still running in Nvidia graphics mode.

 

Mine acts the same as that. I think the GPU is not turning off even though it says it is. Also it only seems to have 2 fan speeds (med and high).

 

Thank you scupking! We are making progress! Also during this test my fan got "stuck" once again. I already PM'd Alienware rep about this. Hoping he'll be able nail down the problem.

I am ok with fan speeds though, I just want to get the fan switching on/off properly.

 

Just checking in. Had both my systems since around 1pm today and NEITHER of them have exhibited any fan problems.

In fact, gaming in L4D2, WoW, Portal, etc so far the fan has been "audible" at it's loudest, and by that I mean I can sort of hear it, but barely.

I'll check back in if any problems crop up. I am OCed on both systems, but I have disabled unwanted services so that my idle-CPU usage is 1-2%.

 

Yes when gaming mine is also "audible" and this seems normal. So when on the GPU and idle yours won't come on every minute or so? When you disable the GPU does the fan stop or does it act as if the GPU is still on even though it shows its off?

 

I was testing this same process earlier today with the same results.

Essentially - when solely in IGP - unit rarely turns on the fan. When going to IGP -> Discrete -> IGP as outlined above (or any variation) - the unit goes into throttling the fan (pretty much on consistently with the discrete mode, on/off with IGP). I actually let it run a bit longer - and when it was back to IGP - it throttled the fan on/off for close to 30 minutes until I finally got tired of the noise and simply closed the lid, causing sleep mode, then opening later - back to normal.

There's obviously a temp/bios/motherboard issue with regards to the discrete graphics card being turned on.

 

100% same here!

I really hope that a fix for this will come out soon. They should fix two things:

1. That error obove!
2. The fan could run much slower and make less noise.

Greetings,
Sascha

 

I just received my M11X a few hours ago, and I think my case is the worst among all here. Upon first boot the fans came on. And stayed on. When doing nothing. Tried switching to discrete graphics and back, plus rebooting didn't help at all! Worse still, the fans sound more like a lawnmower/shaver instead of a normal laptop fan, don't really know how to explain it.

Examining the back of the laptop, was wondering if all the vents are meant to be uniform? Attaching a couple of photos of mine...

 

That is not normal ... you should contact Dell!

Greets,
Sascha

 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but could someone check the temperature of TZ00(use HWMonitor) and other temperature zones: booting on integrated, then check again on dedicated and then again after switching back to the integrated?

edit: whups, there doesn't seem to be one.

 

Dont worry about that... the fins are very thin and just got tweaked a bit probably during installation, or perhaps because they are fairly exposed. I have one that way as well, just get a needle or something and tweak it back if it bothers you, but one or two fins isn't going to cause ANY side effects.

On another note, I did have my fan get "stuck" finally, and it wouldn't drop back down to its low/off setting, however even when it was running on full blast it was extremely quiet... I have a server with 16db rated fans in it, and it is slightly quieter then those fans are. Both of our systems are that way. I would say maybe 15db from about 2-3 feet away. Not enough to bother me in the slightest, but I can confirm at least that the fan does seem to lock on it's higher-speed setting.

One final question, I installed the dox drivers, but now I've lost my ability to hotkey switch GPU, i have to click it on the icon. Sort of unrelated but search didn't turn anything up ;( any clues?

 

Took a video of my particular fan problem. Notice how the fan noise changes when I press lightly on the top left of the keyboard area. Normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQ6xLAd8qM

 

Zlog - there's no fix for it really. That's just the way to switch right now until Dell releases new drivers. Dox IMO are the best thing if you need newer driver support like for Coreavc or something.

 

I had similar issue, but no as bad, although the new replacement much much better. I would contact them

 

Got it, thanks klas, contacted 24 hour support, ran some tests for them plus sent them the photos I took of my rear vents. Offered to send the guy my video as well, but he said it's not needed. He's "escalating" it to customer care, I really hope it's a true escalation and not a way of pushing work away to someone else.

Quite sad about mine, thought I'd finally be able to start gaming and use the new monitor I got with it, but the fan noise is really unacceptable, the video I posted doesn't seem too bad, but it's really the loudest thing in my room when I turn on the laptop, twice as loud as my 10 year old table fan and sounds like a shaver. Looks like I'll have to wait another 2 weeks to a month to start using something I paid for a month ago =(

 

I just hope Dell/AW fixes this asap because it seems to be an issue with every m11x .

 

I am able to replicate this as well. Switched back to IGP and fan was going on/off every couple minutes. My cpu was at 27c ( ) at one point per realtemp.

Switching back to 335m will almost immediately stop the fan, but then you switch back to IGP with the same results. Putting it to sleep seems to be the solution, albeit a weak one.

 

The fan running at full is a minor issue, the major issue is that some fans are being reported as unbearably loud.

Both of my M11x are very quiet, i'd estimate like 15db from the laptop to where my ears are 2 feet away.

If your fans are really loud you should call in. I don't feel that I have that issue. However I do see my fan getting stuck on high, it just isn't loud.

I'm 26 FYI and I've got great hearing for the record

 

Allright guys. After spending hours trying to figure out how to reproduce "stuck" fan issue in a consistent manner I think I found a way. It's not really a usual way, but at least I want Alienware/Dell see it and acknowledge that there is a bug.

So, as it stands right now there are 2 bugs:


Bug 1: Fan would randomly get stuck running during regular usage
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taTCcOfaOQ

Repro steps:

1. Set to Integrated graphics
2. Reboot it (just so we can start fresh)
3. Once booted, switch to Nvidia graphics
4. Stress the system or wait until fan kick in
5. Switch back to Integrated graphics
6. Run Prime95 to stress the system for a minute or so to make sure the fan is spinning
7. Press & HOLD Power button until your pc completely shuts off
8. Press Power button right away to boot your PC back

Note: During reboot the fan will kick in on high, then it will shortly pause and kick in again. Before Windows starts loading it will turn off again for a few seconds and then turn back on and will not shut off. If for any reason it booted to windows and fan didn't turn on within a minute then the test is failed. Please try again. Otherwise if it does turn on it will not shut off unless you put computer to sleep, reboot or switch to Nvidia profile



Bug 2: Integrated graphics uses Nvidia fan control profile

Repro steps:

1. Make sure laptop already been used for while and warmed up and set it on a flat surface (I was also running in on battery and set to balanced mode)
2. Set to Integrated Graphics
3. Reboot machine
4. Let it idle for 15 mins (make sure your CPU usage is at minimum)

Result: Fan will not turn on at all!

So lets make things a bit more interesting:

5. Switch to Nvidia Graphics mode
6. Wait until fan kicks in
7. Switch it back to Integrated
8. Let it idle and wait until fan turns off

Result: Fan behavior changed. It will now turn on ever 1-2 minutes and will be trying to cool down the system for 3-5 mins. It looks like as if fan control is still running in Nvidia graphics mode.