M11x Fan "always on/stuck" Behavior Discussion

klas: Mind sharing how you got them to send you a new unit while you kept yours? Do you think it's advisable to ask for a new unit or would it be okay if they just sent someone down to fix it? One consideration I have is the fan is not installed properly and it's grinding on some other important part.

Also, the only machine I have at home is my old Macbook which has a dying power cord (can't move it else the power connection will quit and I have to spend an hour adjusting the cord so it provides enough power for it to run). Need it for work. So I'd much rather prefer they either fix it at my place or send me a new unit while leaving this one here in case the power cord dies off (rather not spend $100 for a new Magsafe power cord when I'm going to sell off this machine for <$200).

Apologies for the OT, can't PM yet!

 

Grinding fan is a bad thing... Call Dell and they should be able to fix it at your place for you.

 

Updated my post below with both bugs. Can someone please try to reproduce the first bug?

As far as how they shipped me a new one while I have old one, that's their standard procedure, nothing special really and no I did not get charged anything extra.

 

All i have to do to get the fan stuck is play a game, then once the system is warmed up and the fan is running to cool the system, quit the game and switch to IGP. The fan will never shut off for me until i switch to the 335 again, and it will then turn off... if i keep the 335 on it will eventually turn back on and keep running. If i switch to IGP again it will go on and off every few minutes.

I'd like to still make it very clear that it is very quiet and not obnoxious at all on both of our systems, but it IS louder then with fan off so I wouldn't mind them getting the bug ironed out

A lot of you have probably heard the Zalman NC1000/2000 cooler's fan noise levels right? If you turn those to FULL BLAST, they are just slightly quieter then both of my systems.

They are VERY quiet.

 

Hmm interesting, something just occured to me when i shut down my computer to do windows updates.

It shut down, turned off and then i turned it back on, and the fan is still running.

It makes me wonder if there is a system component that is monitored by whatever controls the fan speed that is getting warm enough to trigger the fan, and then isn't getting cooled down by it. Perhaps the Intel IGP does not generate enough heat to warm up the overal system temperature enough to cause this scenario.

We turn on our 335s, they start to heat up and perhaps the overall internal system temp increases enough to cause other components to run warmer. If any of these are out of reach from the exhaust fan's pull, they'll cool off much much slower.

If you look at the picture below of the system with it's hatch off... one possible source of less-exhausted heat could be the HDD or the RAM... if either of those have a temperature probe that is tracked by the fanspeed-controlling system, we could have our culprit.

My wife's m11x sits on a Zalman NC1000 and her fan NEVER spins faster then the low setting (or it will be totally off) while it sits on there even during WoW sessions. The Zalman pad cools the entire base of the laptop, and would definitely improve temps in the HDD/RAM areas (and any other areas that may be buried from view in that picture)

Anyone else with a cooler pad want to try and confirm ?

View attachment 46883
Stolen from a thread asking about the m11x speakers

 

I am glad you guys are reporting this! Zlog, can you please try the steps below?

 

Exactly! .. i donno why it have to roar.. even when we dont use any other stuff.. its annoying to restart every time to switch back..
My old vostro stays quiet untill i open some huge 3d app or play some game.. thats when the gpu kicks on.

 

I did a google search on the m11x fan issue and see other people on other forums reporting the same issue. One person noted that the m17x had the same issue and it was fixed with a BIOS update.

 

i called tech support last night to report bugs with fan control and refered to my video. The tech mentioned something about new bios releasing soon and if they determine that this is an issue as well then they will incorporate the fixes with next bios release.

 

I got a call from QA, erawneila user, he said they still cannot reproduce the fan issues in the lab. Argh, at this point I am settled with the workaround of just putting m11x to sleep and turning it back on when that happens. Can someone please follow the steps below to make sure, it's really the case:

Bug 1: Fan would randomly get stuck running during regular usage
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taTCcOfaOQ

Repro steps:

1. Set to Integrated graphics
2. Reboot it (just so we can start fresh)
3. Once booted, switch to Nvidia graphics
4. Stress the system or wait until fan kick in
5. Switch back to Integrated graphics
6. Run Prime95 to stress the system for a minute or so to make sure the fan is spinning
7. Press & HOLD Power button until your pc completely shuts off
8. Press Power button right away to boot your PC back

Note: During reboot the fan will kick in on high, then it will shortly pause and kick in again. Before Windows starts loading it will turn off again for a few seconds and then turn back on and will not shut off. If for any reason it booted to windows and fan didn't turn on within a minute then the test is failed. Please try again. Otherwise if it does turn on it will not shut off unless you put computer to sleep, reboot or switch to Nvidia profile



Bug 2: Integrated graphics uses Nvidia fan control profile

Repro steps:

1. Make sure laptop already been used for while and warmed up and set it on a flat surface (I was also running in on battery and set to balanced mode)
2. Set to Integrated Graphics
3. Reboot machine
4. Let it idle for 15 mins (make sure your CPU usage is at minimum)

Result: Fan will not turn on at all!

So lets make things a bit more interesting:

5. Switch to Nvidia Graphics mode
6. Wait until fan kicks in
7. Switch it back to Integrated
8. Let it idle and wait until fan turns off

Result: Fan behavior changed. It will now turn on ever 1-2 minutes and will be trying to cool down the system for 3-5 mins. It looks like as if fan control is still running in Nvidia graphics mode.

 

Well dude why are you pressing and holding the power button until it shuts off, who does that, does this happen with regular use, before pulling that power off?

 

May be the lab is loud and they can't tell the fan is coming on. It is an issue and happens to all m11xs. They should take one home and try to use it.

 

of course I don't press the power button like that during regular use, but it was only way to consistently reproduce the issue, so I could present it to AW techs.

Fan got stuck just now as I was writing this message and installing software on a laptop...

 

Just had my fan get stuck on for the first time last night. I was on the GPU switched back to IGP then restarted the system. As soon as it restarted the fan would not turn off and the temp was down to 28c. I still can't see how Dell/AW says this is not an issue. The only fix was to shut off the system and restart. This fan issue is the only thing holding me back from saying this is the best laptop out on the market. I can deal with all the other little issues.

 

I would say you are lucky if it only happened once. For me I use m11x mostly for basic tasks and that happens 2-3 times a day. It wouldn't be an issue, but m11x fan is quite noticeable in the quiet environment

 

Well I still have the issue where it turns on and off every minute or so when on the GPU or when I turn it back to the IGP. This was just the fist time it got stuck and would not turn off because I rebooted the system. I would like other people to try this and see if it happens to them.

1. Turn on GPU (run a few apps)
2. Turn off GPU
3. Restart computer (don't shut down)
4. Fan now should be stuck on.

 

So at this point I can all but confirm my suspicions:

The fan is NOT getting "stuck", however it is being influenced to run at the higher speed by the internal temperature of the computer. I would be interested to know each location the BIOS tracks temperatures from.

Last night I played WoW in 25m ICC for 3-4 hours on a flat surface (kitchen table). After I was done, i used the system for another hour or so on IGP with the fan never shutting off, but the system being cooled down according to RealTemp.

I decided to set the system on my wife's NC1000 Zalman cooler. Without changing anything else, within 2 minutes the fan had turned down to the slowest setting/completely inaudible! It never turned on again, even after I took it off the cooling pad.

I then played a little more WoW on the cooling pad, and the fan never even switched to high, though I wasn't raiding so there wasn't quite as much action going on, I was still using the 335.

There is definitely a hot spot that seems to only get warm enough in certain conditions which then does not get actively cooled by that fan. It might be the HDD, The RAM, the chipset, or just an ambient temp sensor that is located in a position that is warmer and setting it off.

I've ordered myself a cooling pad. Unless they adjust the temp sensors trigger levels, i don't think we're going to see an improvement.

Anyone having this issue with an SSD? That would rule out HDD heat causing the issue because they run fairly cool right?

 

the fan isen't that loud. I own a gaming desktop and that put's the m11x fans to shame

 

Zlog, it's an interesting observation. I don't have cooling pad, but I will try to cool it down with fan and let you know the results.

>3dflyer88
How can you compare fan noise between gaming desktop and notebook? It's like apples and oranges. Obviously, you are used to all the noise from your gaming desktop, so m11x doesn't seem as loud at you, but that's not the case for me. I've owned dozen of notebooks in the past and this one has the loudest fan of all. Also, I use it in a quiet environment and every time I have fan running during basic use I just want to throw it against the wall. Yes, it's really annoying for me personally.

My last notebook Asus M50VM had the quietest fan. Even when gaming it was barely audible . I loved that thing and I would probably kept it if it wasn't getting outdated.

 

I still think there must be two different versions of the cooler being used.

When it's on high, I can only hear it a little bit. If its on the kitchen table and I'm like 5 or so feet away I can no longer hear it, and my hearing is spot-on.

 

As I mentioned my replacement was quieter, but not by much, mostly it was better without the whine noise, but still it's louder then any laptop I've come across to date from other brands.

 

Maybe you have a "best" and "Worst" case version of the "bad" version? lol

Again tonight, the fan acts as one would expect it to with the cooling pad. Exiting out of the games I was playing and within a couple minutes the fan had gone silent, the only actual noise is from the Zalman NC1000 and we all know those are QUIET.

This behavior happens with or without disabling the 335. As soon as I leave the game, the temps plummet and the fan is off within 3 minutes. It never revs, it never turns back on until i go into a game again. Movies also are not causing the fan to spin up on either GPU.

 

Thats because you are using a cooling pad.

 

Can those of you who are seeing this with NVidia enabled please load up GPU-Z and post or PM your GPU temperatures at idle and "stuck" states?

 

there is no GPU temp when you are running on integrated graphics.

 

He said "with nVidia enabled."

On IGP there is a way, you will just need to switch over to the 335 and immediately record the temperature before it gets too adversely affected by it being primary/running. Not the best method but it will suffice.

I'll post my numbers during my next break or lunch.

 

What was done:
- Switched to NVidia
- Played a game for approximately 40-50 minutes
- NVidia GPU is quite "warm" at this point..
- exit the game..
- Switch back to Intel IGP
- Unit allowed to run normally at this point (i.e. I'm still light browsing, etc.)
- I monitor the output of the air out of the back of the unit and wait until it's "cool"..
- after about 30-40 minutes of this - the fan is noticeably cooler (i.e actually feels like it's blowing COLD air), yet still constantly running...
- Switch back to Nvidia for GPU-Z capture - fan *instantly* turns off.
- temp reading is 38 degrees Celsius (capture attached).
- fan comes on again while typing this message..
- Switch back to IGP - do the "close the lid" trick forcing the unit to sleep. immediately bring it back up.
- now in IGP mode with a completely silent unit (fan is not running, etc.)
- Typically (and I don't expect any different this time) - the unit will not start up the fan at all any more... (at least it hasn't done so in the past 10 minutes now)..

Settings:
CPU OC'd
unit in "high performance" mode

Hopefully that helps.. I should note that sometimes the unit "throttles" the fan on/off after a period of time once switched back to IGP the first time after gameplay. In this instance it was different (i.e. I played a bit longer this time around for one) in that the unit/fan stayed on ...

FYI - You already have this unit queued up for return to your engineering group.. I'm just waiting on the replacement unit to show up (I've yet to receive it)...

 

Exactly my behavior that I been reporting from day one. I even got a replacement unit which has the same behavior and they still yet to reproduce this issue. I don't think your new replacement will be any different, this is probably needs a bios update. Fan will not turn on at all if you are on IGP and doing light browsing. If you do switch back and forth then it will start to act up

 

FYI - an update - 12 minutes later - the unit is cool and the fan has yet to come back on, again - as expected..

 

Yes - agreed - as soon as I switch to NVidia - the chip begins to heat up again very quickly (fan appears to kick in around 41-42 degrees celsius)..

 

I think a very easy fix to this problem would be just adjusting the trigger-temp of when the fan comes on.

My system acts *completely normal* while on the Zalman NC1000 cooling pad. No revving, no fan getting "stuck" at all. Hell even in gaming the fan is often running at low speed while on the Zalman.

I really think its just a simple tweak of the setting that controls when the fan turns on and turns off.

I find myself forgetting to even come to this message board because the system is running so well. Aside from the fan being sensitive to temps warmer then you'd find at the north pole, I'm really happy

 

well, good for you. If I wanted to buy a notebook and keep it on a cooling pad all the time I wouldn't have bought m11x and probably went with some desktop replacement notebook which is what I had prior to this one. However, I bought m11x specifically for portability where I constantly move it around and it's not always on perfect surface either (although, the issue was reproduced easily in any surface). The LAST thing I want is to move around a cooling pad as well. Please fix this AW!

 

I have to agree 100%!

The M11x is a great Notebook, but the fan bug is really a no go!

Why does it take so long to fix this bug? And I also ask myself: Why does the fan start with a relative high speed? It would be much better to start the fan with 1000 upm ... less noise and a cool device ... better than running for 30 seconds every five minutes ...

 

+2 and thats part of the reason mine is going back to dell tomorrow for a refund. I will wait until the next version of the m11x. For now my XPS m1210 is still a very good system. It just can't play new games.

 

When you first power up the system and the BIOS loads, the fan kicking into high speed for a moment is basically a sanity check. Its an indicator to you (the user) the fan is functional in addition to the BIOS confirming its working.

I personally like this feature since it only lasts a brief second.

Ever since I switched to the M17x, I am loving this BIOS feature. None of my Dell lappies had it.

 

I'm getting a refund .. My 3 year old XPS m1210 can still keep up with the best of laptops in this size. Granted it can't play the new games but its still got some power.

 

Even without my cooler I have yet to experience any of these fan symptoms. I sit almost daily in my car on the university lot and the fan is never on until I decide to watch a video, but the thing is it turns off after. I don't know guys, I'm as stumped as you are as to why you're having this fan issue.

BTW BatBoy, where's Leon man?

 

If your on the battery thats the reason its not coming on. Mine acts normal if I'm on the battery and it will almost never come on unless I watch a video. Its when I'm pluged in turn on the GPU then turn the GPU off.

 

I agree. I've been scouting around to gather general comments about the fan on the M11x (outside this forum as well). From what I've read, it seems reasonable to conclude that Alienware should:

1) Up the trigger-temp for the fan a little bit (and double check what is actually triggering the fan).
2) Fix buggy fan behavior of always on after switching between GPUs.
3) Have a smoother transition in fan speed.
4) Make sure there are not several versions of the fan they assemble with the m11x, since some say it is 'quiet' while others say it is 'loudest fan I've ever heard on a notebook'. Personally, my decision whether to order the m11x is on halt at the moment, until I see how and if they handle the fan complaints.

I hope they read these forums, and release a bios update soon.

 

Well considering the fact that I was using this as a diagnostic tool, i wasn't proposing you carry around a cooling pad with you everywhere you go. We have them at home on our desk because I feel they do improve the hardware's lifespan. They don't go anywhere with me.

What I WAS proposing is the fan isn't getting "stuck" and there isn't a "BIOS bug" like people keep claiming, and thats why Dell hasn't really formally (or otherwise) confirmed anything. There is a section of the laptop that is getting warm enough to keep the fan running on high that is in a location that the fan doesn't cool. So you end up with the revving or "stuck" fan. It's not actually stuck, its just doing what it's programmed to do - Cool the temps down.

Unfortunately that section isn't getting cooled by the fan so unless it cools off on its own the fan keeps running.

After gaming all weekend again I can confirm that when the laptop temp as a whole (not just the CPU/GPU temp) is kept lower that the fan does not go crazy. It acts totally normal.
Even without the cooling pad though it almost never happens. So maybe my wife and I just got golden samples so to speak

I couldn't be happier with this thing (unless of course it had a little more CPU power, but I'm very happy to sacrifice that for the battery life I'm getting now that this thing is broken in). Even when my fan is on high-speed, it's quieter then my Asus, and Studio 13/16 laptops, by a lot.

You guys really should test the cooling pad out. I don't care if you think its dumb, or silly to have or use one. If you want to figure out what the problem is, then it is a diagnostic step that can give Dell something to work with thats a heck of a lot better then "hold the power button until your system shuts off improperly."

 

I noticed with stock drivers under IGP if it's booted into it my fans don't come on hardly at all. Even if temps are at 44C on both cores, nothing. Pretty sweet. With Dox drivers the fan is always running on lows at least.

 

Zlog, I honestly do not care if it's a BIOS or heat problem, but there is an issue with something which needs to be addressed by AW. Although, switching betweent IGP -> Nvidia -> IGP and having different fan cycles is definitely a bug with BIOS which is easily reproducible. As far as fan getting stuck issue, it could potentially be related to heat problems because it's not consistently reproducible, but I hope not.

I've been using notebook lightly since my last post where I did not switch to Nvidia at all and used it lightly for browsing, so I had no issues with the fan at all.

 

If you don't care what the issue's cause is, then you definitely aren't going to be of any real assistance to dell in trying to determine the issue.

You've already had your system captured, so you have some responsibility to provide them feedback that is at least somewhat accurate. If you don't feel that you do, then don't expect a solution as fast. You have a direct link to the group trying to detect this problem, and if you truly want it fixed you'll try and give them all the information you can. Especially since you appear to have a noisy fan AND frequent issues.

I PM'ed the AW rep a few days ago since this thread seems to be more about complaining about the issue then determining its cause. Hopefully the information I gave him will be useful.

 

Zlog, I already spent hours on troubleshooting, providing feedback and even created a video with steps to reproduce both issues. They also got my first unit back if they want to evaluate it, but something tells me they are all like that. At this point I don't have anything more to provide and just have to patiently wait. If there is no solution (other then "use a cooling pad"), then I'll send it back for a refund.

 

Just got mine today. Messed around with going back and forth with the IGP and 335M, and I was able to get the fan stuck on IGP with both cores at below 33C. This is on a flat surface and there was no gaming involved whatsoever. In fact, the fan is blowing out cool air.

 

Were you able to consistently replicate the issue or it just happens randomly?

 

All I need to do is switch to 335M graphics for the fan to go off, use it for a bit, and then back to IGP and it will stay. If I want the IGP fan off I'll have to put the computer to sleep or start the computer off fresh with IGP on.

 

I've noticed my fan blows out cold air too after I quit gaming. Kinda strange. You'd expect it to shut off if it's blowing out cool air lol.

 

Although personally I think something is up with the BIOS, I'll also attest to Zlog's claim that there maybe part of the laptop that isn't being cooled. After a short session of MW2, the bottom side of the palm rest seems very warm, and the fan is now blowing out cool air. CPU temps are 40 and below. I'm not really sure whats going on, but the fan is kind of annoying.

 

Just receive my M11x yesterday.
nothing installed and just unintalled the minor bloatware.
Switched from IGP to Nvidia and watched a 700MB movie file and the fan came on shortly after. After shutting off video, fan shut off a few minutes after.

Then I switched back to IGP.
When I did this, fan kept going on and off with normal browsing on google and forum. Until I did a reboot did the fan act normal under IGP.

As the fan is not annoying to me too much, I do believe a BIOS update needs to be created to address this issue. Also as soon as the fan shut off, I do notice a difference in sound. I could hear my a pin drop when the fan shuts off, but when the fan on, it is not that bad, but definitely obvious once it is off.