7970M in M15x CPU Limiting Answers Here

Ok so out of my curiosity and my willingness to blow my slightly larger than normal paycheque this month I decided to upgrade my processor in my M15x.
I had the 720qm before and I bought a 920XM QS.
By the way, huge thanks to Table21 for both of my upgrades!!!
Anyways, to keep this short and sweet heres the numbers. These are completely STOCK VS STOCK CPU speed comparisons.
All runs were done with same drivers (12.10) and 7970m slightly overclocked to 900/1300 with a .05v undervolt vbios to make the card run at 1.0v. Massive thanks to SVL7 for the help there and great guides!

3DMARK 11
AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel(R) Core(TM) CPU X 920 @ 2.00GHz,Alienware score: P5660 3DMarks
AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-720QM Processor ,Alienware score: P5270 3DMarks

3DMARK Vantage
AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel(R) Core(TM) CPU X 920 @ 2.00GHz,Alienware score: P18638 3DMarks
AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-720QM Processor ,Alienware score: P15575 3DMarks

I wish I would have run some others like crysis 2, BF3, metro 2033 bench etc however I dont feel like putting my 720qm back in until I have a couple days to enjoy the new processor. So it could be a long time

So the answer really without even overclocking is... If you play cpu limited games like WoW or slightly older games that are less GPU limited the processor will hold you back undoubtedly. Or if playing games with physx on an AMD videocard like Borderlands 2 The CPU will make a massive improvement.
The only gripe I have so far with the setup is the powersupply makes the same noises as before only louder. lol

I hope for now this answers anyones questions regarding if its worth the upgrade to the 7970m if you are processor limited. It depends on the games you play and what you do on the laptop.

I will be posting overclocked results soon but I keep seeing the question come up and figured I would help shed on light on people like me that still cant justify retiring the M15x!

 

Good post there. I'm still waiting for my 7970m from table21 Hurry up postmen!

 

im still hoping amd releases the 7950m.......

 

AMD are in financial trouble though. They sacked a whole load of engineers so I don't expect much from AMD anymore. Perhaps Nvidia from here on out

 

So I went to try overclocking the CPU and noticed some strange happenings... basically the further I overclock the worse my FPS gets when the CPU and GPU are under full load. Like in the "combined test" on 3dmark 11 I get 17fps instead of 22fps when throttlestop is set to 80/70 TDP and 26/25/24/24 (24x multi at 4 cores) I never had these issues with the 720qm so its obvious to me what the issue is. prime95 is totally stable. furmark is stable. but when I run both it cuts my framerate in half.
Gonna try undervolting more tonight but if anyone has more ideas or advice with throttlestop please let me know as i am a total noob with Software overclocking especially when TDP's are involved.

Side note** I am using the 150/180w powersupply. I dont want to point blame there right away but maybe??

 

The reason for the fps cut back in well documented here. It is due to GPU throttling due to inadequate power under load. The M15x simply cannot bring more than about 75W to the table as far as the GPU is concerned. The CPU isn't limited at all however but a high OC on it will definitely limit your GPU's stable load clockspeeds.

You have 2 choices. Either run stock and undervolt to 0.95V and have the freedom to OC the CPU pretty much to anything but 24x multi across all cores. Maybe 22-23x MAX. Or run stock clocks on your cpu and give it strict tdp/tdc settings to give more OC headroom to the GPU.

Due to the matchup with a 7970M the 920xm at stock clocks is usually going to be the limiting factor in modern games. You are better off therefore running 7970M stock or pretty close to it and give yourself more CPU OC headroom.

 

I think it was also noted that getting a bigger power supply like the 240watt does not help in this situation either.

 

Indeed. However the 150W will be running near its max capacity when running the XM and 7970M. Especially when you OC either. Getting the 240W removes the stress on the PSU reducing the chance of power supply failure. Also if ever you were to overvolt the xm like slv7 has done then the added watts are actually needed to push it to clocks like 4ghz!

 

Yeah I think my 150watt charger is starting to take a dump, its making really loud buzzing sounds(really loud) and I haven't even overclocked(stock 920xm & 260M). Definitely having a 240watt adapter would help under stress.

 

Ok so upon further investigation yes this issue is well know to the m15x community. I knew this was part of the problem before this is why i undervolted my gpu. So now I have undervolted even more. .975v on the 7970m and it still doesnt allow me to overclock any further. 3dmark vantage doesn't seem to have an issue though i can go right to 24x multi and not have a problem.
23x seems to be the sweet spot. 3dmark 2011 still throttles like crazy on the last test but everything else is totally stable. Borderlands 2 is priority #1 for me and it seems totally fine at 23x multi. I'll post again here if this changes.
BTW here is my vantage run at 23x AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel(R) Core(TM) CPU X 920 @ 2.00GHz,Alienware score: P20126 3DMarks

 

That's pretty good, you should be able to play borderlands 2 fine

 

Ok so this seems to be getting worse... borderlands 2 is now throttling at stock CPU clocks and i've undervolted my 7970m to .95v I have turned off throttlestop also. I cant for the life of me figure this out. only possibility I can think of left is my powersupply/motherboard are going. Anyone have any ideas?

Ok so in doing more testing I have discovered the TURN OFF button on throttlestop 5.0 DOES NOT WORK!!! When i cycle through profiles or make adjustments to the settings they still take effect! Anyone know how to remove throttlestop or get my processor back to functioning at stock? I thought i was getting stock clocks when i turn off TS but really I am still overclocked and this is why I am having issues with throttling at "stock clocks". Another issue i noticed is my ram is running at 1.5v with 16gb ram at 1.5v I can see myself running into power stability issues sooner given the power restraints of the M15x.
Anyone following this that's willing to throw in some input fire away!
Edit: does anyone know the stock multipliers for the 920xm? I believe its 24/23/17/17 Let me know!

 

If you have set it up to start up with the machine like I have then you ought to firstly remove it from "task scheduler". Then check in ccleaner to make sure it isn't starting with the machine or running in the backround. Afterwards remove it completely.

I don't think changing the memory voltage makes a difference. If the memory is made to run at 1.5V then that is all it needs. Upping it might not even work let alone be good for it.

 

no no sorry I'm tired and burnt out on troubleshooting. I mean I am going to try 1.35v undervolting the ram. The m15x has this option in the bios and some ram is made to run at that. This frees up a slight amount of power that it seems I'm very short on. I just put a shortcut to TS in the Startup folder of the start menu. I will try booting without it on startup and see what clocks it detects.

 

Stock clocks are 24/23/17/17, try gaming without throttlestop and let us know. I'm curious to see if the m15x with a xm processor can run a 7970m stock properly without throttling.

 

Runs totally fine at stock but so far anything higher than 19x multi on 3 or 4 cores and I get the throttling. Anyone wanting to follow this further I have a thread at TechInferno (where TS was born!) and we are troubleshooting it there.

 

This problem seems sporadic. I get it sometimes in FC3 and when it happens it will happen even if the cpu is at 15x multi! Then again if I boot up cold and play immediately then I get no throttling even at 23/23/25/27 with cpu at stock clocks and 0.975V-1V (not stable at 0.95V) and this even after 8 hours in game!

Try and play a game immediately after boot up while the components are still cold and see what happens. Could be a lead on this.

 

@ King of Interns & Loafer987.
Just days ago I upgraded to a 7970M and also run a 920XM. I am experiencing the exact issues that Loafer987 is describing, to the very letter. I am devising plans on how to tackle this issue by reading through the forums. I'm merely speculating here King of Interns, I know there is very little headroom power wise when running this combination but I believe it is down to the circuitry and characteristics of the 7970M, not loading, it's a sensitive GPU. I say this because previously I was running a GTX670M and 920XM combination. I heavily monitor the power consumption of my system, Min / Max & Average with a Fluke 189, so I'm confident it's accurate. These are my findings when playing Borderlands 2. I monitor temperatures and general information with HWinfo and monitor GPU performance with Afterburner. Here are my findings:

Nvidia GTX670M 10% OC & 920XM. 150W PSU
Using Throttle stop I run a flat 20x across the CPU Chi(I run logs and CPU is not throttling)
Afterburner reports the GPU load at a constant 95 - 99% (so not throttling)
Average power consumption is 168 watts.
The game runs smooth and fluid, I have FPS capped at 60 and it mostly runs at 60FPS.

Radeon 7970M uv-0.975 at stock clocks & 920XM. 150W PSU
I cannot use Throttle Stop to run a flat 20 or the GPU throttles constantly. To have any chance of fluid game-play I need to leave the CPU at stock. (Not use Throttle Stop)
GPU uv-0.975 at stock clocks, 920XM at stock, system consumes Average of 130 - 135 watts.
This is a huge difference compared to the power consumption above, and still it throttles.

My plans are, I am waiting delivery of a 240W PSU to give me more headroom to OC and work at my 920XM, hoping to get it this evening. (I'm on UK time)
My system was more stable at stock voltage 1.05V (still throttled but less frequent). I read a post in Tech Inferno from a member Jansin and he quoted trying 50 different combinations of voltages and clocks and the only 2 that he found worked stable for him was 0.975V @ 900/1300 & 1.1V @ 900/1300, so that's what I'm trying next, I'm going to over volt.

It is a head scratcher alright. I believe it's not about power consumption it's as if the 7970M has voltage feedback and monitoring and is just a sensitive GPU in this respect.

When I do my tests, I will post my results. Hope to post again in a day or two.

 

OC at 0.975V?

OV to 1.1V sounds interesting theory. Flood the circuitry with high voltage to compensate the attempts done by the board to cut power. I think I will also try this tonight.

However I can tell you mate the 240W won't change anything except give you the ability the push the cpu very hard and not have a burning brick at your feet. Not a gr8 help in gaming unfortunately.

I did try 1V volt and no difference regarded throttling. 1.1V sounds lucky though haha

 

Just flashed 1.1V and 900/1300. Gonna test 27/23/20/20 on CPU with these settings and see how FC3 runs! Wish me luck

1.1V and 900/1300 made no difference still throttled unless I set tdp/tdc to 65 and 15/15/20/20 and eventually got BSOD. Back to stock for me.

 

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Agreed. 240W PSU made no difference to the stability of the GPU what so ever. I have tried all under-volts provided by SVL7 (many thanks SVL7), and an over-volt of 1.1V and I am still experiencing throttling in some games, mainly Borderlands 2.
At all Vbios flashes I tested GPU performance with 3D Mark 11 and used MSI Afterburner to graph it's response, and on every run during the combined test the highest the GPU utilization reached was 72%, average of 65%.

When I upgraded to the 7970 I installed Catalyst 12.10, the default download from the ATI support drivers page. Everything at stock my average 3D Mark 11 score was 5430. Two nights ago I discovered that there is a Catalyst 12.11 beta driver. Installing this has increased my 3D Mark 11 score to 6012. Reading the Catalyst revision log there is a mention that the beta driver is set to improve the performance of FC3 by 25%, so you may want to give that a go King Of Interns if you haven’t already. 12.11 made an amazing difference to 3D Mark 11 scores but sadly hasn't resolved throttling in my system.

Currently my main approach to benching and testing is using Throttle Stop on the 920XM, to find as SVL7 describes it, the Sweet Spot for whatever game I am running at that time.

Sadly I have to agree with King Of Interns, the M15x is only rated by the manufacturer to deliver 70 watts of power reliably to the GPU. There is a little give and take in most things, say 10% so 77 watts. The 7970M just draws too much power under load and with the CPU under load it leeches power from the GPU.
The 7970 is a huge upgrade to the M15x but sadly the M15x in my opinion does limit the performance of the card. It's not a simple plug and play, the user does need to monitor the system and tweak accordingly to have any chance of decent performance.

Think there is nothing else for it guys, think that pretty much sums it up for me. Thanks for all your help and enjoy the games. 

 

The problem is this. THe 6870 was rated 151W while the 7870 is rated 175W. A huge difference. Both the 6990M and 7970M are based on these cards with underclocks on their respective cores and slightly less voltages.

The 6990M was the the max workable GPU for this machine the 580M and 7970M use too much power period. Can't say I am particularly happy. The 920xm at stock is a little underpowered nowadays so unless the trend go's towards less power consuming high end cards we cannot continue upgrading the M15x with top end cards.

On the other hand the 680M while costing alot does use less power maybe around 6990M levels.

Good news is the desktop 8870M is rumored to consume 160W so a 15W drop over the 7870 so I really hope the next gen will be safely under 100W tdp with a decent undervolt; thus allowing us to unleash the potential of our 920xm's. I personally will be selling the GPU a few months before the next gen comes out and will downgrade to a GT240M in the meantime lol.

There is one more option. We turn our 7970M into the never released 7950M.

Reflash to 700/1000 and reduce voltage accordingly! This should massively reduce TDP. The 7950M was rumored at 50W tdp!!

I think I will try this and ramp the CPU up in games. Then work the GPU up very slowly finding the highest stable core and memory clock for each consecutive voltage to give max performance while allowing the CPU enough power to run at least 23x/23/25/27 in games.

Once it throttles at these settings then I will have found the fastest speed for the GPU. I will call my GPU a 7950M and "OC" it to feel better HAHA

Fact is at stock CPU clocks my 920xm is the bottleneck in FC3 not the 7970M. If I take the voltage down to 0.9V at perhaps 750/1100 then we should have plenty of CPU OC headroom even in the most demanding titles while the GPU still maintains quite alot of its horsepower. Too bad it can't be allowed to run wild in the M15x however at these clocks it will still comfortably outperform the 6990M even OCed AND our CPU won't be shackled at 15-17x multi lol