Frames dip during gaming load

hey all,

i seek some advice on a problem im having.

while using 260m in gameplay, such as nfs: mw 2012, the fps seems to keep changing dramatically. the game starts with normal 30fps, but after 5mins of gameplay it goes down to 23fps, which is acceptable. but after further 5mins, it goes to 18fps and averages out at that. i would say i have detail too high up, but when i turn it down all the way with 800x600, i still get 18-20fps. even turning stealth mode on takes it to 12fps. i would expect better from stealth mode off, which is around twice the clock speed.

now i have recently reinstalled windows, so not much clutter collected yet. also im using latest whql 306.97.

so far i have tried different drivers, physix set to gpu render, changing some values in nvidia CP. also throttlestop, which works very well for around 10 mins, then causes laptop to shut down. was suspecting hdd damage/failure, but hdtune tells me write speeds are decent for my drive. also im suspecting cpu throttle. ran out of ideas, so asking an expert out there.

thanks


gpu temp log attached

 

If ThrottleStop is causing your laptop to shut down then that is probably because your CPU is overheating. Did you bother to run a ThrottleStop log file while gaming to try and get a record of your CPU and GPU temperatures while gaming? Have you ever taken your laptop apart to thoroughly clean it out?

The M15x-R2 has had some major CPU throttling issues. Everything has to be perfect for it to work properly. Have you updated to the most recent bios version? Run a log file with ThrottleStop in monitoring mode while gaming and it should be able to detect the throttling problem. Keep track of what time your frame rates start to lag and compare that to the time in the log file.

I seem to recall it is the Chipset Clock Modulation that drops way below 100.0. Look in the CHIPM column in the log file. This is supposed to ALWAYS be 100.0. When it drops to less than that, that confirms that your CPU is throttling.

 

yep, according to log, cpu get throttled at 85-86c. i always thought cpu only should get throttled at 90c+.

and yes, i have cleaned/repasted both gpu and cpu a couple of months back. mby i should try doing it again

still it makes no sense. shouldnt the gpu do all the work and get hotter then cpu while gaming?


log attached

 

Are you using the latest bios version? This laptop model had a lot of throttling issues. Throttling can be triggered by CPU or GPU temperature or by power consumption.

ThrottleStop can be used to greatly reduce the amount of throttling but if this causes your laptop to get too hot, then it is going to shut down. Dell probably set a laptop shutdown temperature in the bios that is far lower than the Intel specification. The Intel spec throttling temperature for your CPU is 100C and Intel sets the shutdown temperature at least 25C to 30C beyond that to approximately 125C to 130C for the CPU core temperature.

If you can find a modified bios for your laptop, you might be able to significantly increase the bios based throttling temperature. This was a good laptop that was severely handicapped by poor design. A user can run either the CPU or the GPU at full speed but this laptop struggles when trying to run both of them at full speed at the same time. That's a brilliant way to build a gaming laptop.

 

This shouldn't be happening. Last winter (ambient 20C) I regularly ran my 920xm at 3.33ghz across 8 threads at 100% for hours doing video encoding. The temps maxed at 95C and stayed there again for hours on end with no throttling.

Like unclewebb is asking are you using the latest A09 bios? Also are you sure your vents and heatsinks are clean? Also check the fans, often dust can gather inside the fan housing and ruin the effectiveness of the fan.

The M15x can handle the 920xm running at far higher speeds than the 820qm runs at there must be an issue with your cooling/paste job.

Also unclewebb you are misleading in your previous post. Yes the M15x suffers throttling issues BUT not where the CPU is concerned. Not at all. Where the GPU is concerned that is different story but again only with high end parts. The GTX260M doesn't consume enough power even OCed to cause throttling in the M15x. You need something more powerful than the 460M or 5870M to get into power issues (even with the 7970M if you leave it stock and OC the CPU you are golden, not bad really when the 7970M is about 8 times the power of the original 260M!). I really respect your program but don't poo poo this machine as you clearly haven't owned one. Cheers.

 

bios is latest a09.

i have done a repaste job and it runs smoother for sure. however, i turned on the log in middle of gaming and got this View attachment 2012-11-26.txt . its still being held at 87.5%. not sure if this is supposed to happen

 

In a properly designed laptop, that is absolutely not supposed to happen. Your CPU is being throttled by Chipset Clock Modulation. The CPU is barely over 80C and the GPU hasn't even reached 80C. Both of those temperatures are well within spec and neither one should be triggering any throttling. The King of Interns points out that your 260M does not consume a lot of power so that should not be causing any throttling either.

So we have an M15x with a throttling problem that is not temperature or power related. That is the problem with the M15x.

Code:

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM   BAT_mW  TEMP  GPU
2012-11-24  18:51:30  17.13   46.0  100.0  100.0        0   86    76
2012-11-24  18:51:31  17.41   45.0  100.0  100.0        0   84    76
2012-11-24  18:51:33  15.89   38.0  100.0   50.0        0   82    76
2012-11-24  18:51:34  15.00   31.6  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:35  15.00   31.3  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:36  15.00   33.3  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:37  15.00   32.9  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:38  15.00   30.4  100.0   50.0        0   80    75
2012-11-24  18:51:39  15.30   27.7  100.0   50.0        0   80    75
2012-11-24  18:51:40  15.08   30.2  100.0   50.0        0   81    75
2012-11-24  18:51:41  15.00   31.3  100.0   50.0        0   81    75
2012-11-24  18:51:42  15.00   31.4  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:43  15.00   31.1  100.0   50.0        0   81    75
2012-11-24  18:51:44  15.00   32.0  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:45  15.00   32.4  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:46  15.00   31.9  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:51:47  15.00   32.6  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:51:48  15.00   32.8  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:51:49  15.00   34.1  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:51:50  15.00   32.6  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:51:51  15.00   31.4  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:51:52  15.00   34.7  100.0   50.0        0   81    75
2012-11-24  18:51:53  15.00   33.9  100.0   50.0        0   82    75
2012-11-24  18:51:54  15.00   34.7  100.0   50.0        0   81    75
2012-11-24  18:51:55  15.00   31.4  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:51:56  15.00   33.1  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:51:57  15.00   33.2  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:51:58  15.00   32.4  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:51:59  15.00   30.9  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:00  15.00   31.0  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:01  15.00   30.9  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:02  15.13   31.1  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:52:03  15.00   31.6  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:52:04  15.00   31.6  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:05  15.00   31.8  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:06  15.00   32.1  100.0   50.0        0   80    74
2012-11-24  18:52:07  15.00   31.4  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:08  15.00   33.2  100.0   50.0        0   82    74
2012-11-24  18:52:09  15.02   28.9  100.0   50.0        0   81    74
2012-11-24  18:52:10  15.00   29.5  100.0   50.0        0   82    74

From the first ThrottleStop log that was posted, there is no logical reason for the CPU to be throttled to 50% of its rated speed. It's actually running at less than 50% of its rated speed because if you look at the multiplier, it is being separately throttled to 15.00.That's a big bug in this system and that is still happening, even with the latest bios.

King of Interns: It's great that you ended up with a M15x that works properly but some owners have not been so lucky. Users should not have to run 3rd party utilities like ThrottleStop to try to get their laptops to run the CPU and GPU at their rated speed. Based on the log file data I am seeing, I don't believe that my previous post was misleading. It wasn't meant to be.

When you were doing video encoding last year, was the software loading your GPU at the same time? This throttling issue seems to happen when both the CPU and GPU are being loaded.

 

Indeed I sometimes ran my 6990M folding while I did video encoding.

Btw the cpu isn't that component that throttles in the typical M15x it is the GPU voltage that is leeched causing the GPU to throttle under load. The cpu can hit its max in this machine without throttling problems and even with an OV can hit 4ghz across all cores and take 200W for itself again only throtltling due to heat.

If I had access to this chap's M15x I am sure I could get to bottom of this problem in no time. As this is not the typical behaviour of the M15x.

 

In his laptop, the CPU is being throttled when it should not be throttled. My guess is that this throttling is being triggered by a GPU temperature of about 77C. It's the bios that sets up this throttling and it is possible that a different maximum GPU temperature can be set based on the model number or brand of GPU. I think in the M15x, this problem is more common with the Nvidia 260M and 460M GPUs.

A person could try to do some controlled testing with a small Furmark window open while closely monitoring the CPU and GPU temperatures to see when throttling begins.

I don't own a M15x so maybe some other users with an Nvidia GPU can post some ThrottleStop log files while gaming to see what is normal and what GPU throttling temperature has been built into this system.

 

thanks for both your help so far.

mby i should try unparking the threads? not sure if that would solve the throttle problem

if its the bios thats messing with throttling, are there any stable modded bios out there i could try?

 

looked into mods and found this

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m15x/593926-unlocked-m15x-bios.html


one of the screens show passive cooling point, mby on my lappy its set to something like 85. could try flashing and see if my laptop still works after