Multiplier manipulation XM processors =)

Lolz on manipulation but none the less i was playing around with spyware scanning and such and wanted to see what i could do to speed it up and how Throttlestop would respond. I was running 3 scans at once just for giggles and used MSE, Malware bytes and Spybot. I ended up running a 27x multiplier across core 1,2,3 and i think 25x or 26x on the last core but i will have to play around some more. Right after i tried to apply a bump on core 4 to 27x the computer BSOD and i had to restart. I was scared since it was first time pushing the cpu that far but i am typing from my just recovered m15x and cpu is running like a champ and ran prime no issues lol GAWD i love intel CPU but hate ALienware bios...lolz. I was able to get the clock rate up to 3696.1mhz or 3.7ghz

Try to play around if you are willing to risk with your XM processor and see how high you can hit on the final clockrate. Too bad we do not have bios OC options like m11x and m17x. INAP i know you are always up for a challenge using the COMPANY's Air conditioning units as a notebook cooler.

edit: after playing around more i believe core 1 was at 28x, 2 was at 27, 3 was at 26 and 4 was at 25. I did another run at 27 all across and resulted in a lower clock rate.

 

ThrottleStop reports the average multiplier. At any instant in time, all the cores that are active will be using the same multiplier. When it shows different average multipliers on different threads, that's a sign that the core or thread was asleep for some of the time during the sample period so the average multiplier is less. You can't run one core at a 27 multiplier and another one at a 24 multiplier. In your above example, as you increase the load on the CPU, the CPU will spend more time using the maximum turbo multiplier.

 

i have been trying prime loaded with 8 cores and seems like the highest i can hit is 26x across all cores. Can we run prime with just 4 cores and run the multiplier at 27x all across. My TDP/TDC is 90/75 and multipliers are around 25-26x and test completes without any errors. Bumping up to 27x on 8 cores prime results in BSOD and restart. I am loving TS software everyday as i get a chance to really learn it capabilities. Thanks again for all your work unclewebb

I attached a pic of 27x with 4 cores but it was not at 100% activity hence the multiplier hitting 27x.

 

You're most welcome. At the level you're running at, a BSOD is usually a sign that the CPU is looking for a little more core voltage so you can get 8 threads of wPrime stable with the 27 multi. The M17x has a voltage option in the bios but I don't think the M15x does. As I've said before, I'm a little biased but ThrottleStop really helps unlock all that these Extreme mobile CPUs are capable of.

 

You don't know how many times I bsod when benching and pushing numbers. These Intel chips can take a real beating and keeps on kicking. the farthest I've pushed it is 28-28-27-26.

 

just playing around some more and got it to 28 28 27 27 and here is the results i was TDP/TDC @ 93/75 all cores loaded down and no errors. Next test was 28 28 28 27 and that resulted in BSOD.


stable: 26.9 x 133mhz = 3578 mhz

 

those are some sexy numbers, hehehehhe
btw tstop + setfsb = bsod heaven hahaha

 

ROFLMAO..yeah i usually get couple of BSOD and then just pause and ask myself "what am i doing is this sH*T neccessary like seriously how much FFFFFing power do i need and is it worth the risk and then i am right back at it again bumping up the TDP and playing with mulitiplier....my GAWD unclewebb i have a feeling i might end up using your software and murder my chip lolz....BSOD HEAVEN!!!!

 

I ran mine at x27 across the board with 96/86. I mean that is my daily clock not just for benching and I had never got a BSOD. Only when I try x28 that when I get BSOD. If I lower my TDP/TDC then I can run it at x28.

 

It's not my fault. I'm just the crack dealer, I mean the programmer. It's not my fault that you have become addicted to running your CPU on the ragged edge of self destruction.

That's why I used to include such a big warning message. When it all goes ka-boom, don't come looking for me.

Similar desktop Core i7 CPUs are typically set to TDP/TDC 130/110 so you're not likely going to kill one of these chips. Your motherboard and power adapter are another story.

 

Quoth the Raven, "Evermore." With apologies to Edgar Allan Poe.

 

Hmm, I've never really played with multipliers individually. I just set them all at the same setting and bump the TDP. I think I noticed that cranking one multiplier up far ahead of the others gave me a BSOD though. I'm going to have to play with some in the coming days.

 

Here is a CPU-z Validation at 3.7ghz(jigga-hertz )

CPU-Z Validator 3.1

INAP---940xm is under warranty lets hit 4.0ghz

 

Looks like I have to spend another $5 for setfsb again. bsod here I come!!!!!

 

If your mobo is setfsb compatible like your last one with the 920xm then your score will easily hit 4.0ghz using a combo of TS and setfsb but need to find a sweet spot for multipliers and fsb. Sounds like a long night involving beers n BsOd

 

can almost turn it into a game faiz
although maybe more dooable with something stronger than beer

take a drink for every BSOD, try to hit 4ghz before passing out drunk. increased difficulty after every BSOD.... i call it... "Beer Screen of Drunk Death" BSODD

my current mobo doesn't work with setfsb

 

Wow you guys are lucky, my max TDP seems to be 72W on my sig rig, anything more and after a few seconds of full load the laptop shuts off.

 

can you post up a screen shot of your throttle stop or tell use what multipliers you are using, along with what TDP/TDC and what options you have checked like "Eist" , clock modulation, chipset clock mod, set multip...let us know and we should be able to help you out. TDP of 72w is low i have not heard of any members with a xm chip who is not able to go much higher than that. What are your temps and have you replaced the paste on the cpu

 

I've been trying 26x 26x 26x 26x and I need to have the TDP at at least 89W for the multiplier not to drop under load. However, after a few seconds in Prime95 the laptop just shuts off. I've been building computers for many years so I'm not worried about the thermal paste since I did everything myself. The CPU however runs hot, mid 90s (celcius) when 8 threads are loaded. Also I should mention that the W880CU heatsink for the CPU is a bit small because it has been modified to make room for the big heatsink of the GTX480M. I've reapplied Arctic MX3 twice on the CPU to see if it was misapplied but it's not the case, temps stayed the same.
I'll also like to add that while I'm running Prime95, my battery is fully charged and the GPU is idle. Here is a screenshot of Throttlestop:


And finally, the multipliers all go to 26x (or ~25x because of TDP limitation) in the FID view when the CPU is loaded a bit. However CPU-z always reports 25x or 26x.

 

do you guys get prime95 errors with 26x all 4 cores?
i usually get 1 core (2 threads) fail after a few mins.

btw Emmanual, i'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and take a guess it's your psu crapping out. the gtx480 is a huge sucker for power and combine that with an overclocked 940xm....

may want to check it with a kill-a-watt meter. i bet its way over 180w.

 

I have a 920xm ES chip so my numbers might be a little different. On TS i have the options "Eist" , clock modulation, chipset clock mod, set multiplier all of them are checked. You have selected "BD Prochot" uncheck that. The cpu are stable up to 100 degree and then start throttling you want to be under 90 degrees as much as possible and might need to look into the paste a little more and see what the issue is. What are your idle temps and your ambient temps.

I am running all cores at 26x and tdp/tdc is like 95/77 to get the cores to stay stable and you will need to play with a combination of tdp/tdc. Run hwinfo sensors to get an idea of the CPU core wattage. Also you can play with the cores separately and increase core 1 and 2 multi to 27-28 and keep core 3 and 4 at 26x or 27x and see if you can get better stability or not.

do some speed test using wprime benchmark v1.55 and run it at 8 cores and use the same settings as mine to see how it reacts.

 

I think I may have found a "sweet" spot sort of. I used to think the TDC was irrelevant as changing it didn't seem to have any effect. So I set it to 0 and my clock was stuck at 2.13GHz no matter what my multipliers were so by gradually increasing it I understood exactly what it did. I finally determined that 62 for the TDC was just what allowed me to reach 3.2GHz combined with a minimum of 85W TDP. Since the CPU is rarely under 100% load, I set my multipliers at 26x because as long as the load is low enough, 4 cores can run at 3.46GHz and when it'll reach the maximum TDP, they'll simply drop back to 3.2GHz. This was stable for a few minutes in Prime95, they reached 100c easily though. I also tried increasing the TDP up to 89W but then I got the shut off after a few seconds. I'm being limited by the how much power the laptop motherboard can provide. The W880CU was a modified version of the W870CU (which ran a lower power HD5870) to accustom the GTX480M's massive 100W TDP. I'm pretty sure they made changes to the motherboard power circuitry by driving some power that was originally dedicated for the CPU to the graphics card. You guys have a much lower power HD5850 so it leaves room for powering the CPU. There is an absolute maximum amount of power that a motherboard can provide for components and that's regardless of the power supply's wattage so my theory is that even if the power supply isn't maxed out, the motherboard is CPU power wise.
Faiz23, if I were you I would try running your 920XM at TDP 85W, TDC 62W and check for stability from there. Your power settings seem awfully high compared to mine.

And @ XEROXIDE:
Yeah there are two potential reasons why I'm experiencing my problem and it's either due to what I described or due to the video card power requirements itself, or probably both combined. When running Prime95 I made sure my GPU was in low power mode though so I don't think the power consumption was anywhere near the rated 100W TDP.
Also, that Kill a Watt device looks good and I'll probably buy it.
EDIT: Just ordered one

 

yeah wprime seems ok, however a core will fail in prime95 if run for a few minutes. i never even thought about playing with the tdp/tdc in order to get it stable, i just put enough to get the multi up there. hehe will try later

and Emmanuel, i have one of those meters, they're great devices.

 

congrats on being able to finds a sweet spot and that is different for every unit or every chip. I tried your tdp/tdc at 85/62 and i am only able to hit 24x multi and since i have a 920xm chip to be able to push the higher clock i need give some more power to the chip to be able to maintain those clock and be stable. I only use those settings when benching and my profile 3 and profile 4 is what i use daily.

I agree with you on the power draw from the video cards but get your self a kill a watt meter to keep an eye on total system draw and use hwinfo to find out the draw on cpu along.

 

Yeah I wish I could set my TDP and TDC unrealistically high to get rid of all limiting factors (but thermal throttling) but having such a powerful GPU requires compromising. I've always wondered what was my power draw for equipments so I'm gonna have fun plugging that kill a watt device all around my house lol!

 

when i am benching using both GPU and CPU i can hit as high as 172watts on my 150w psu. During gaming i am usually around 135w-155w. The PSU is always running at close to max rating which is sad that engineer to do leave any threshold and sometimes upgrading the psu will not help since bios might be the limiting factor.

 

Yeah PSUs have some headroom and yeah it sucks that laptop manufacturers give us PSUs that can barely run the hardware lol! A laptop such as mine would need 220W to run comfortably especially if OCed. The sad thing is, there are no power adapters that are more than 180W with the 5.5/2.5 connector, they're all 4 pin.
Anyways, currently cloning my installation of Windows to my hard drive to run some stability tests while playing games. I never experiment on my main Windows installation.

 

I just wanted to let you guys know that you can 100% trust the multiplier being reported in the FID column of ThrottleStop. TS uses the method recommended by Intel. Most other software does not.

ThrottleStop is accurate enough that it can detect the slightest hint of multiplier throttling so if you set a 25 multiplier and it is not showing the full 25.00 then it is turbo throttling. CPU-Z has decided to do things a little differently and because it rounds things off to the nearest whole number, it's not the best tool for the job.

When these CPUs are idle, cores and threads are constantly entering the deeper sleep states so the average multiplier tends to be bouncing around all over the place if you don't have the Minimum processor state set to a low number like 5%. CPU-Z has decided to ignore what these CPUs are really doing at idle to improve the consistency of the CPU-Z Validations, even if they aren't 100% accurate. Here's a comment he made recently to help explain this decision.

Intel includes 2 high performance timers for each thread in their CPU for monitoring purposes. By following Intel's recommended methods as outlined in their November 2008 Turbo White Paper, I am able to stand behind my tools with 100% confidence that the multiplier data displayed is accurate.

RealTemp 3.60
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1872/Real_Temp_3.60.html

 

Hey,
Oh yeah I know your software is the real deal, better than RMClock and CPUGenie for me. I've been using Realtemp for years and now Throttlestop is my new favorite software. Thanks to you it's worth it to buy "overpriced" Extreme processors, can't say no to a 3.46GHz quad core

 

I finally found time to put my 920xm ES in my M15x. I just started my AW and temperatures are idling at around 45°-46°C, so this seems fine, right?
Now that I have a powerful new processor I'd like to use it's full potential, so I got ThrottleStop and am eager to use it.

Hopefully you can answer me some questions. I'd like to run the multiplier at 24 across all cores, what tdp/tdc settings make sense? I'm sure some of you know good values for running the system stable and I'd really appreciate to get some help so I don't have to waste time testing different settings.
If I remember correctly I once read that 80/73 works, but I'm not sure.

The next question is probably a noob question, but I haven't used TS before. When I restart the computer, are the values back to standard until I open TS again? And when I exit TS will the settings remain or go back to standard?

 

tdp seems to be random for most people, and with new t-stop the values could change too. i would start at 80/73 you mentioned and test it out with wprime at 8 threads. if your clocks jump to 24x then your good if not then rise the first number the second number doesn't seem to affect much.

 

Ok, thanks. I just did what you told me to do. Actually I've never done any benchmarking before... so I don't have any experience with this. I'm a bit confused...

The first time I didn't check any of the clock modulation boxes on TS, so the Chipset Clock Modulation was at 50 at the start and rised to 62.5 during the test, but the multi (FID) said 24 all the time and TS reported 3.2Ghz for the speed... temperature got up to 77-78.

The second time I checked the Chipset Clock Modulation box (100%) and did the test again. Temperatures went up to 88-90 and the FID was at about 22. TS reported a speed of about 2.9Ghz.

First test took about 330 seconds, the second 264 seconds.
What does this mean exactly? During the first test the CPU throttled, but the reported speed was 3.2Ghz, so there weren't all cores active? I'm confused...

 

next time run the small test and make a t-stop log and upload it. that way we see whats really going on.

make sure to check
-clock mod
-chipset clock mod
-set multi is at 16

 

Ok, lets see. Here's the log file, the test took 8.04 sec.

Code:

 DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  TEMP  GPU
11/28/10 02:32:28  10.66    3.4  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:29  10.71    3.9  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:30  10.61    3.7  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:31  10.32    3.7  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:32  11.32    3.5  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:33  10.28    3.4  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:34  10.59    3.3  100.0  100.0   51    47
11/28/10 02:32:37  16.67    7.0  100.0  100.0   59    47
11/28/10 02:32:40  23.61   98.1  100.0  100.0   70    47
11/28/10 02:32:42  23.44   99.9  100.0  100.0   72    46
11/28/10 02:32:43  23.40   83.4  100.0  100.0   58    46
11/28/10 02:32:44  11.54    4.5  100.0  100.0   56    48
11/28/10 02:32:45  10.71    4.4  100.0  100.0   55    48
11/28/10 02:32:46  10.76    4.1  100.0  100.0   56    47
11/28/10 02:32:47  10.71    4.5  100.0  100.0   56    47
11/28/10 02:32:48  11.06    4.2  100.0  100.0   55    48
11/28/10 02:32:50  10.50    3.9  100.0  100.0   55    48
11/28/10 02:32:50  10.74    3.9  100.0  100.0   55    48
11/28/10 02:32:51  10.59    3.8  100.0  100.0   55    48
11/28/10 02:32:52  10.37    3.8  100.0  100.0   54    48

-set mulit at 16, both clock mod checked

 

hmm looks like you need to rise your tdp up more, your multi is not hitting 24x.
it should look something like this. btw i'm running 90/62

 

Ok, I raised the TDP to 85, now it's 24 during the whole test.
With more data it's a bit more comprehensive I realized ^^

Code:

11/28/10 03:03:04  22.70   19.1  100.0  100.0   63    48
11/28/10 03:03:04  24.00   57.6  100.0  100.0   66    48
11/28/10 03:03:04  24.00   95.7  100.0  100.0   70    48
11/28/10 03:03:05  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   71    48
11/28/10 03:03:06  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   72    48
11/28/10 03:03:06  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   72    48
11/28/10 03:03:07  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   73    48
11/28/10 03:03:07  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   73    48
11/28/10 03:03:08  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   74    48
11/28/10 03:03:08  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   74    48
11/28/10 03:03:09  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   75    48
11/28/10 03:03:09  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   74    48
11/28/10 03:03:10  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   75    48
11/28/10 03:03:11  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   75    48
11/28/10 03:03:11  24.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   75    48
11/28/10 03:03:11  24.00   99.8  100.0  100.0   75    48
11/28/10 03:03:11  24.00   68.2  100.0  100.0   70    48
11/28/10 03:03:12  24.00   22.7  100.0  100.0   69    48
11/28/10 03:03:12  22.42   21.3  100.0  100.0   62    48

Btw what does the set multiplier setting change exactly?

I have to find some sleep now, it's already way past midnight where I live. Thanks a lot for your help so far!

Edit: In your picture, Chip% is at 75... ??

 

set multi just means it will use the max multi when ever possible.

yeah my chip is 75 because i forgot to turn t-stop on, you can see its off in the picture.

 

80W/73A might work, but you'll probably need 85W/75A to support 24x across the board.

 

first make sure you are running wprime in 8 thread mode so all cores are loaded down...next make sure throttle stop is "TURN ON".

once you do that you want to see FID @ 24 and C0% at 99-100. C0% tells you the core activity and you want the core to be at 100% or right at it. I had to run 90/75 or 95/77 do be able to hit high like 26-27x multi so i would set your max at 90/75 and experiment with that .....ultimately you want to keep an eye on your temp and make sure it is below 100 degree which is thermal throttle point.

 

Ok, thanks a lot for all the help and advice!!! Now it seems to work so far and I learnt quite a couple things.
85/73 seems to be ok, at least during the short tests I've been doing (with 8 threads of course), I might raise the limits a bit anyway, just to be on the safe side.

I'll let you know if I have some issues, thanks again!

 

if all is right then it should look something like this. for got to turn t-stop on last time. for me the only thing i need to check was chipset clock mod.

 

Yes it works. I got the same like in your picture since I figured out a couple of things thanks to the help of you guys and some reading. Now I think I now how to work with TS.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

 

now that you are done silly benching put all that work to good use and fire up a good quad core game like BFBC2 or GTA IV since it is a horribly optimized games. Now keep in mind that many people get carried away that having all 4 cores hitting 24x is important. That only matter on what you are doing many times i would just have the last 2 cores sitting at 24x MAX but not worried about hitting 24x stable. I would make first 2 cores hit a multiplier of like 27 or 28 and sometimes core 1 hit 29. This gives you pure raw clock speed and that is key in programs that are only single core or games that are dual core optimized.

Here is an email i sent to a fellow who purchased my m17x with 940xm




Throttle stop


http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip

Wprime 1.55 run in 8 core setting under advanced

Downloads | wPrime Multithreaded Benchmark



Settings:

Bios: Set performance setting to CPU 150mv voltage and 5% Overclock

Throttle stop: Check box for set multiplier and set to max, then right click and select "Turbo Ratio Limits" (after you have applied all setting for Throttlestop select the button "TURN ON")
Modified for 920xm
core 1: 24-29
core 2: 24-28---29
core 3: 21-27
core 4: 20-26

Then save that and right click again and select "Turbo Power limits" and you can try any of these combos and try to use the least amount of tdp/tdc but always keep a 5-10 w spread and use the least to make the multiplier hold but keep in mind you will never get all 8 cores hold stable at HIGH HIGH multipliers i could only get like 27x multiplier across all 4 cores and 4 hyperthreading cores but i can get 2 cores stable to like 27x or higher. Don't stress about hitting high multiplier across all cores the first 2 is most important.


Stock tdp/tdc: 62/62

safe safe: 75/70

first setting: 80/70
second option: 85/75
third: 90/70
fourth: 90/75
fifth:: 95/75
max: 95/85

(after you have applied all setting for Throttlestop select the button "TURN ON")

 

Ok, thanks for the advice!! I'm gonna test different settings a bit more thoroughly as soon as I find enough time, maybe at the weekend, hopefully a bit sooner.

As far as I can tell after some short tests the 920xm really is a beast (especially compared to my prevoius 720qm, but that's obvious).

Btw, what'S your preferred TS setting for gamin (which is stable)?

 

I definitely agree that the 920XM is a beast. After some manipulation with ThrottleStop, it can run fully loaded 100% faster than a Core i7-720QM. The 720QM will only give you a 12 multiplier when fully loaded and the 920XM can easily double that if you can keep it cool. That's a huge difference.

I'm just doing some early beta testing of a new and improved and more efficient version of ThrottleStop. inap said that he could run the same turbo multipliers with a lower TDP/TDC setting but I'm not sure why. If anyone wants to play and do some testing, you can download it from this post here.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6916081-post46.html

 

sorry kevin, i guess i reported too soon on that one. was using the wrong version of prime. after further testing i found that i had to use the same tdp as before. but the new look is awesome.

 

Thanks for clearing that up inap.

 

damn man i did not realize you changed your avatar....i was like who is this NOOB lolz...HAPPY CYBER MONDAY

 

Great! I'm going to check it out as soon as I find enough time. I really appreciate your work,it's so fantastic. I'm already a big fan even though I discovered TS only a couple of days ago. As far as I can tell it works great, now I'm curious about the new beta.

 

Unclewebb, as we are all excited about the next beta of TS, just wondering is it possible to switch TS profiles on the fly via assigned buttons? like when i am going to run games, i just press 'end' key(which i pre-assigned) profile 1 will be loaded, then pressing 'home' key load profile 2 and so on...instead of clicking around TS? just a suggestion...

Power at a button~