Ask Alienware's General Manager, Frank Azor, Anything on AWA!

If you ask me, the fact that the Dell US web site is offering up to $200 'supposed' discount AND a bonus $60 discount off the new line-up suggests that things aren't going quite as well as expected......well, expected by the bean-counters over at Round Rock, anyway.

As for the're-enabling of OC', yup....good news, but off the bat of whom? - NV or Dell. Like Micky, I imagine Dell had a hand in this, and it's not just because of those of us who voiced our opinions loudly. Will this re-enabled OC last? - anyone could guess at that.....I'd be more keen to see how the new systems with a pathtic 180w psu can handle overclocking.....just 'cos NV have re-enabled it (blah blah blah) does not mean that it will make an iota of difference in how the machines will perform without Dell atcually doing something proactive about the power supply and at least providing us with some headroom.....I'm not buying this 'bios fix' that they have released.

 

Yeah.. I agree with Micky and Stevie in this one.
Here we've had this open thread with AWKahn and Frank who were suddenly AWOL when this came to pass. Instead chose to ignore our pertinent questions.
Many of which I've addresses to them and still await a response.

Now a post of the Dell website hours before the Nvidia announcement posing as the savior.

Nah, I don't buy it. This stinks to high heaven.

 

I don't trust alienware anymore and honestly don't really care what they say anymore. Till they put out a product that actually has half the features that the old machines had and isn't gimped out of the box, I won't be buying from them again.

 

Thanks for the support guys. Clearly AW have changed direction and we are no longer in their target market. They want customers that will swallow any old rubbish. I wish them luck as any expansion of PC gaming can only be a good thing for the rest of us (enthusiasts) with the game authors.

Proud founding member of the AAA. Anti-Alienware Alliance, lol.

Edit: Let's see if NV adopt the way forward I suggested to them in the NV forums when the 'bug' was first announced. At that time I was just confused.

The Verde Program will be re-implemented. A driver search takes you to a full disclaimer that in a single paragraphs says 'On your own head be it'.

Once GFE was auto-updating mobile drivers this became a problem. Now, it could have been NV that came up with the idea of locking the drivers as a selling point to the box-shifters. They no longer need to maintain the drivers themselves and that is a big plus for them. But no way would they have done it without consultation.

The next release will have a revamped 'Verde' agreement. Right now the link in the cover page only links to a driver search, not the full legaleeze version it used to.

http://www.geforce.co.uk/drivers/results/81941

GFE will probably need an update as well to smooth out the process so users only have a single click to continue the update and no full automation?

We will see.

 

I just hope they figure out what they've done and try to fix it, but I highly doubt that will happen.

 

I think it will happen but only back to the +135 limit.They know exactly what was done and ignored customer posts asking why they could not overclock for three driver releases. At first it was accepted as a potential bug for investigation. Then the 'bug' was not it missing overclocking, but that it had appeared on an earlier release!

I'm afraid for those of us with machines that have enough power and cooling we will still have to use modified vBIOS' to get access to fully unlocked.

They introduced this limit with the 680m and although there was a little disquiet they got away with it.

 

I'd be curios to hear Frank explain why the keyboard area of the new AW17 R2 gets so warm/hot, whereas prior versions did not.

Does he think this is acceptable?

 

I was talking about the trash revision of notebooks that alienware released. They need to get back to making quality machines that don't suck.

Its pretty sad considering its got the same components as the 15. You would think it would run cooler.

 

If you look at the service manual, both the GPU and CPU are dead center of the laptop. They are now much closer to the surface than they were with the old systems due to the thinness. Not sure what else anyone could expect here. Thinner = more heat. Honestly, while I agree it is noticeably warmer than the older units, realize they are comparing more to their competitors. Things like MSI's GS60 and GS70 get much hotter than the 17r2 does. I'm not Frank or in any way affiliated with AW, but its perfectly acceptable to me. Obviously if they can tweak fan profiles to bring it down, it would be nice, but other than that, if you want cool, it takes a 2" thick computer to do it, which this is not.

 

Now if this is true, than I take back my last post I didn't realize that was the case - so the 15 with a 980m stays cool on the top? That would require an explanation then

 

That is really dumb... Honestly, they should keep it towards the edges.. This was what was done in the older ones.. No wonder the damm keyboard is getting hot.. Nice junk you have there AW...

 

I meant you would think with the extra space it would have better cooling. I bet the 15 is the exact same in terms of heat.

 

Just think about how hot the keyboard on AW 15/17 is going to be if you have the opportunity to overclock gpu with a mod vbios and higher voltage and overclocked processor .. Alienware has become an apple copy, thin as a pancake ..

 

While i see your point here, the alienware 17r2 is nowhere near thin enough to begin "competing" with msi's gs series. The closest competitor to the 17r2 would be the gt72, which for all intents and purposes is the superior laptop in comparison. Thermals, performance, upgradability, etc. the 17r2 has nothing on the gt72 apart from the gimmicky graphics amplifier.

 

I don't know, I've had the GT72 as well. I had the top of the line IPS 4980hq and it was $700 more than the deal I got on the AW17r2 and I got two years accidental on the AW. It is significantly larger model. I realize everybody's opinions are different, but I much prefer the AW keyboard touchpad and screen (I got glossy). The GT72 felt flimsy to me as well.

I agree it ran cooler, and had mxm, but that's about the only advantages to my mind. Performs the same.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Yea I would never take a gt72 over the 17r2 but that's just me

 

It's been said but worth repeating. You are the target market for this new version of AW products, which is fine and dandy for you. Others are quite upset given the whole reason AW had the legitimacy and appreciation of it's entire fan-base is it catered to more than just the market that appeals to you. Whether it's a point for you are not, the reality is the generation of R2 owners have limitations and are less powerful than their predecessors. Which depending on what you play may or not be noticeable.
Ultimately it's really going to be exactly what you said - an apple type product. Build quality is important, but unlike apple products AW owners expect much more as it was billed as the "most powerful laptops in the universe" for sometime. What you will not feel now, but will in the long term if this trend continues, no one will defend the legitimacy of the AW brand moving forward.
You are going to hear a lot of noise from this community given these facts, and will go down swinging until they feel it's fruitless to continue to do so.

Many of us do the same. I have a tower that I've build with a 2600K OC'ed with a 7970 that has been able to handle most any games to date I've thrown at it.
What you may not know with your ROI 2+ years later, is a large reason these machines have a 2nd life is due in part that you can indeed upgrade it's parts which extends its use. Even if we assume you have to stay architecturally aligned (Ivy stays Ivy), these machines, because of said build quality lend themselves to a 2nd afterlife market. Your AW18 was the last of it's kind, and you hit a rare sweet spot given the 18 was going away at the time with socketable CPUs and MXM slots.
With the soldered everything model, this will no longer be the case, and turn more into how the resale value of MSI, Acer, and other brands, or the uninformed.
So we are happy that you are an avid follower, and have disposable income to purchase every 2 years, the market will make the AW build quality it's only plus and it's resale fall into the toilet.
This is why we are upset.

 

@Alienware-L_Porras

I am not really sure that you Answered my question you had said you were going to check if there was a bios level lock on OC'ing the 970m in the 17r2, and then said the engineeres said the GPU could be slightly overclocked when attached to the graphics AMP... but 1.that didnt answer whether or not there is a bios level lock and 2.That makes Zero sense whay would you attach an empty graphics amp to OC your internal GPU I mean that literally makes zero sense so if you could maybe clarify on that a bit it would be great.

 

So has anyone had any luck getting the 240W PSU in the EU? I'm trying to order the new Alienware 15 but the most recent rep I spoke to knows nothing about the issue (even if I link to Frank's answer and the article posted to dell.com). I won't order the laptop until I know I'll get the 240W PSU... no way am I going to chance it and then get stuck in limbo.

@Alienware-L_Porras / @Alienware-Frank_L is there any way to get the message out to reps in the EU? I'm in Germany, but would guess it's the same for the UK etc.

Cheers,
Dev.

 

@Devianti you just have to keep bothering them until you get the right rep, unfortunately.

 

This begins to look like a tragic or comic situation

 

Indeed... I really hope Alienware takes a beating due to these BGA models and finally decides to go back to it olds phillosophy... Death to BGA junk and you know the rest^^^^

 

I have submitted your feedback to the team in charge of that region.

 

@Alienware-L_Porras / @Alienware-Frank_L : Is there any consistency or an official answer on whether or not we need to return the 180W if we're sent a 240W? Several posters said they were told they keep theirs but I was told I'd have to return it. I don't mind returning it if that policy is consistently applied...

 

https://register.needle.com/alienware/
Ummm.... not sure what to say here. They need all the help they can get?
Really, I got nothing, but this is still something interesting to bring up about the state of being in (not of) Alienware.

 

The old adapter should be sent back.

 

Hi Porras, I have been trying to have my order modified all morning to include the 240 watt adapter but I am having no luck whatsoever. I was hoping you could help me out.

 

Unfortunately, I'm unable to change orders (the people in charge of that is in a completely different region). Besides that, the BIOS update should solve the throttling issue. If you still need our assistance you can email [email protected]. From there, we can try to send your info to the team in charge to have the order corrected unless it's not an option for them.

 

Once nvidia re-enables overclocking of the gpu, the performance will not be the same. It is not the same to begin with either as when you engage sport mode it trumps the 970m/980m in the 17r2.

 

I would never take a GT72 over 17R2, I'd ignore both models completely and just shoot for a GT70+XM CPU

 

That is a good point i forgot about the gt70. Superior laptop in almost every regard apart from its mono fan cooling system, but it holds up extremely well even in OC'd conditions.

 

Shill positions available

 

Wow, that is just terribly sad. The product used to take care of itself when it was the absolute best that the industry had to offer. It stood on its own as being extraordinary and superior without any smoke and mirrors. Now that the performance enthusiasts are starting to drop the brand and looking to competitors that offer more robust configurations this is somewhat predictable, but it is no less heartbreaking.

 

Yeah, it says a lot about the current products at hand when you have to resort to social engineering and paying people to say nice things.
Geez...how many companies seem to all be flocking to these lame propaganda tactics to sell their products these days...lame.

How about using that 'hooker' money to build the machines you know we want, and that are worth genuine praise, then let old fashioned word of mouth do the talking for free ?!




How about also responding to this thread now guys? @Alienware-Frank
@AW Khan

1) News on an Updated m18x R2 / m18 BIOS to support maxwell properly ?

2 ) Were you and/or are you involved with Nvidia trying to block OCing ? Why?

3) Are you planning to bring out an Alienware for enthusiasts? ie SLI/CF socketed GPU/CPU maybe even a desktop CPU?
Not this fisher price stuff.. a real DRT


Respectfully awaiting a response...

Thanks

 

AW Khan & Frank Azor might be too busy celebrating with "Big Mike" - all laughing at this thread and how there is zero involvement from anyone about any of the concerns raised by us all.

 

Hi L_Porrass,

Since I sold my AW18 on due to its bulk, I ordered a AW15 with 980m on 22nd Febuary I am based in the UK. When I asked the rep about the 240watt psu, he said they didn't have one at all. So I showed him the part number and said I expected it included in light of recent developments. He said thats not possible. In the end I have been charged for the 240w PSU as well. I am annoyed about that but I wasn't prepared to own a AW15 with 980m without the 240watt PSU.

I have the transcript of the conversation. I also have my order number etc.. My laptop is currently in production and due on 10th March, I do appreciate your in another region but its cost me an extra £100 to have the adaptor that some in the US are getting free?

 

They already answered 1)

No bios will be released.

 

Psst, wrong Frank. You want this Frank ( @Alienware-Frank ).

 

I'd appreciate anyone from AW being 'frank'...

 

Where? do you have a link? I was unaware of this update..

 

Indeed.. last thing I know they were releasing beta version of the BIOS on AWA...

 

I began looking over the fence at Origin's (HP's) systems, and it's a sad day when that group is doing something to fight for turf incorporating desktop CPU's and Dellienware is blindly going along with BGA-based systems and nothing more.

As I suspected and have stated elsewhere, the BGA setup is loved by the bean counters over Alienware now so there is no impetus to try to do more, and they are using the too-thin designs and too-heavy to justify a lackluster middle-ground in design. The problem with this equation is the power is on either end now, too thin with more power and heavier with more power, or sit in the middle with neither benefit.

Dell is unwilling to eat the costs associated with producing power-user laptops unless it means cookie-cutter designs with low maintenance designed for a broad audience which is not possible, you can't serve two masters. This same tendency to be support-adverse (justified to an extent) means they won't battle MSI head-to-head with overly thin, "turn 'em out, burn 'em out" designs that are all the rage with people new to the scene who don't appreciate the problems this creates and support issues down the road. On the flip-side, they likely won't go back to being a more costly, lower volume power-user setup in a thicker package like Origin is starting to do. As one reviewer put it, owners are now "stuck in the middle with you" with Alienware, neither too thin, nor too heavy (with room for truly powerful components). The BGA aspect then makes this compromise all the more appealing to designers under pressure to cut costs, and the Graphics Accelerator is nice, but simply not the answer.

Don't get me wrong, I like the AW 13 as an M11x replacement, and the AW 15 in general, but both systems could (and should) have been so much more. It's likely too that BGA will consume the desktop space, and the use by Origin and others of desktop CPU's will be more limited by that, but hell at least they are trying to keep the power curve up. Even using BGA-based desktop processors in their laptop designs (Origin, etc) is more than Alienware under Dell is doing or even shows interest in doing these days. Combine that with clear signs of lack of testing, a shell that is absurdly easy to scratch down to the carbon fiber, and the over-emphasis on the G/A it points to a poor strategy on the laptop side, this after years of . I believe there was no other course than to try to thin the designs out for market share, but when you remove overclocking and so forth on top of that, what is it that separates the designs apart really besides aesthetics?

I'll say this despite the fact I currently have no desire to own an SLI laptop, if Dell had half a brain there would be a replacement AW 18 with a desktop processor and some serious GPU's in it to help at least establish the brand as continuing power-player in gaming laptops. It might not even sell well, but you have to do something to create that halo effect, and who knows, it might even turn out to help in future designs of the AW 15 and 13.

 

If they actually released an updated BIOS for the M18xR2 to support Maxwell with Legacy/VGA boot and Windows 7, I might even buy another pair of 980M cards for it. This roadblock is the ONLY thing standing in the way of the M18xR2 enjoying another round of superiority in the extreme laptop world. The Alienware 18 will need Secure Flash removed so we can unlock the BIOS before it can make any kind of meaningful progress. They would do well to remove the AW18 power-handling gimp-o-rama, too. Otherwise, it would simply maintain a trailing position behind the almighty M18xR2.

Those are Clevo machines with a goofed up looking LCD cover, not an HP (Hewlitt-Packard). Clevo having the cajones and wisdom to use a desktop CPU in a laptop is not a first for them.

Everything else you said makes good sense. They have elected to toss out one entire segment of their customer base. We will (and many of us have) go somewhere else to get what we want. I'm loving my Panther 5 and not looking back. Unless or until they get their act together and go back to making awesomeness on a grand scale like the M18xR2, I'm done with Dell. Not because I hate the company. Quite the contrary, as they have been beyond awesome, especially Alienware. They just don't offer any products that interest me any more, and that, boys and girls, is the price of admission. I've said no to their low-TDP BGA filth with my wallet. Next move is theirs... checkmate. If they don't care, then neither do I at this point. Life goes on. Ah well... I sure do have lots of nice memories, and I still have an amazing machine that still totally shreds all but the most exotic laptops using obsolete, but still superior hardware.

 

Agreed.

This is an unfortunate sign specifically to everyone here in this forum, it sends a signal that the enthusiast market isn't needed, and they'll find people to sing their praises with the masses they are targeting that cannot tell the difference. Using social media options that can be controlled versus open forums here are a perfect option for those only looking to justify their purchase, without taking the time to investigate further.

Lets be frank, AW has always had "haters" for a long time. There are even form posts dedicated to how to handle criticism. Whereas before it was primarily "too much $$$ for what you get", it was justified by form factor and benchmark scores. Soon enthusiasts will fall into this category saying that BGA, locked BIOS, lower wattage chargers will be replaced by noise of BGA was inevitable, locked to protect your hardware, and wattage for what you need.

Intentional or not, this direction is going to push enthusiasts by the wayside and put vendor controlled media as an intermediate barrier. Not a good sign at all.

Lets hope the stars don't align for whatever reason and this doesn't work ( to end on a positive note). Heh.

 

Just to summarize a few of the last threads for giggles, 2 points came to mind.

1). Bios unlock for the m18xr2 (or flash for 18)... How likely do we feel this happening? Honestly it seems to me that it was taken into consideration, but this is a laptop 2 or 3 generations old. Wasn't getting the warm fuzzies on either of these being updated.

2.). If AW comes back and builds beasts again... What is it about the clevos that would make you come back? Is it AW's superior build quality and warranty, which I suspect, or other reasons? I don't own a Clevo nor never seen one other than online.

Know in large part this is prognostication, but curious.

 

Yeah man, we are not wanted on voyage! Our market share is for a smaller operation where our money matters. I've already jumped ship despite ordering one of those new eco-machines .

As for your question 2, I would only return if when I come to choose, the performance is better AND great looks. The X8 is rather subdued next to my R4. The warranty would be a nice bonus but not a deal maker.

 

1) AW18 is the current generation 18, m18x r2 is the last generation 18. Your warm and fuzzy feelings aside, I don't think it's unreasonable by any stretch to expect after sales support just because a new product gets released...i mean really? You want to set the bar that low?
My machine isn't new, but it's still under warranty.. That says something. These boys were championed as upgradable beasts. Dell should be happy to help me get the most out of my beast (their wonderful creation) if it's within their means .

2) It needs to spank the Clevo flagship like a red headed step child for me to consider and new AW. Or at least spank my R2.
It needs to be upgradable.. With.. Wait for it.. See point 1.. Support for future upgrades.

 

1.) There is no reason they should not. Leaving things as they are is a strong message that they (a) do not care; and (b) you're left on your own, abandoned, as soon as a new model is released. That's not an acceptable business model for expensive high end machines. Might be OK for cracker box Dell, Acer, HP, Lenovo mainstream trash, but not a machine like this.

2.) Bingo. First and foremost is superior build quality. I would insert aesthetics, and their superior warranty is also key. My Eurocom Panther is built really well, and while I am satisfied with the build quality, it absolutely does not match the M18xR2. I would say it matches, even beats, the M17xR3/R4 (plastic) in build quality. Aesthetics speaks for itself. A few quick glances at photos and nothing needs to be said.

I am at the point now that #2 takes a back seat to performance. They would need to release something that also outperforms the Panther before I would come back. Something like an Alienware 18 with unlocked (or no Secure Flash, end-user unlockable) BIOS, power-handling limits removed, a dual 330W AC adapter setup from the factory and X99 5960X and SLI. I would prefer to not own anything with a Haswell blast furnace CPU in it, desktop or mobile, but even that would be better than a gimped BGA version of the blast furnace.

 

Hi all,

The AW13 got eDP and GTX 860M but when you plug a UHD screen, you are limited to 30Hz !
I think it's because, the integrated GPU limit the output.

Do you plan to do an update to made UHD@60Hz working on AW13 ?
In 2015, ther is more and more 4K screens and it's so sad if we can't use tems with AW13 ^^

Regards,

 

Have you attempted to manually change the refresh rate in Windows Display properties? If so, is the setting ignored?