HOW TO: Windows Installation Thread (includes SATA III, SSD Upgrade, RAID0 Discussion)

Far out this is crazy.Ive decided to skip the windows 8 thing,even though I do like it and I think windows 7 will do me good for now.
Ill wait a few more months and give windows 8 another shot.Thanks Mr Fox you are a legend.re-installing windows 7 and hopefully I can get my factory settings back.

System is back up and installed.I have alien respawn working and my intel rapid technology is accelerating with my msata and hdd.
Ive made my back usb and my laptop is running like a dream again.cant wait to get some games back on.Sticking with windows 7 and give windows 8 a go later on.

thanks again for your help guys and To Mr fox

 

Awesome news, charl79. Enjoy that beast. And, good job! You did all the work.

 

Just a shame he had to roll back to win 7 to get awr to work correctly......

 

Agree, it's a shame to have to do that if it that is not the owner's preference. In the grand scheme of things, Windows 8 isn't really superior... basically the same thing with a fancier GUI and slightly lower performance than Windows 7, but it also has a few nice features that Windows 7 lacks. It's a hard decision which OS I like better, but I am starting to lean back toward Windows 7 due to slightly better performance than Windows 8. This is primarily due to my fondness of benching, and Windows 7 is clearly the winner of that battle.

Here is an interesting comparison of read/write performance booting Windows 7 versus Windows 8. The drive in the middle is my 1TB Momentus XT RAID0 (500GB x 2). The OS drives are a 50/50 split of my 480GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD RAID0 (240GB x 2) used to dual-boot Windows 7/8. This show a very minor performance edge for Windows 7. It also provides a nice contrast in HDD RAID0 versus SSD RAID0 drive performance.

Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Windows 8 Professional x64

 

have you guys ever experianced this with alienrespawn using windows 7.Think im goin to loose the plot with this thing LOL

 

Fox - look at the drop on 4k random write performance on your C:\ SSD - that's quite drastic and something I noticed that too on my drives. Not sure why it's vice-versa for your E:\ drive (have you got those the right way around for Win 7/8 ???) but Windows 8 sucks at small random writes vs. Windows 7 it seems to me.....

 

I have never seen that before. What action are you taking in Respawn when you see that message?

Yes, that is a significant drop in 4K random writes.

Partition C:\ for Windows 7 becomes partition E:\ when Windows 8 is booted and vice-versa. Each OS identifies its primary partition as C:\ which is normal. Both environments identify the HDD RAID0 as partition D:\. It does seem Windows 8 does a poor job of 4k random writes on all partitions, but 4k Q32 write speeds are a tad higher. I had assumed it was just an inconsistency with the crappy Agility 3 drives living up to their reputation, but if you see the same thing with your Sammies, then perhaps not.

 

Actually, my drive seems to be a bit slower across the board. Here's a comparison of when I first got the machine (right) and now under Windows 8 Pro (left) - my 4k's were always a bit slow, that's just the crap Dell firmware, the retail firmware drives perform much better - another reason I want Dell to update that.....oh, both benched on a bare OS install.

Spoiler

 

Wow, those are very similar changes in performance between Windows 7 and 8 using totally different drive setups. Good info, Brother Steve... very enlightening.

 

Yeah....I wonder if anyone else has noticed. Sequential read/write's are okay, but the majority of read writes in everyday usage are random small files aren't they.....

 

Yes, for most people I believe that would be accurate concerning smaller files. Maybe Microsoft assumed people would be so starry-eyed about the tiled GUI and all the free app crap, along with a deceptively snappy boot time with UEFI and Secure Boot, that they would not notice a minor decline in overall performance. I would also imagine that many Windows 8 users are starting off with a new computer, so they would have absolutely no frame of reference for comparison. I also think people that check and double-check everything with system performance like us are in the minority. If it powers on and does not have obvious evidence of problems, ignorance is bliss for the majority.

 

True. Ignorance is bliss for those who choose to be ignorant about the technology they own.

 

I click ok and then the alien respawn uninstalls leaving a partition saying system recover. I reinstall respawn. I put my USB drive in to backup
My hdd. I wanted to test out respawn. I start comp with USB drive pressing f12. Then respawn comes up but I get some error code. I chatted to a dell guy he told me to download the new back up and recovery and it did the same. I was wondering if I should return the laptop and get a new one or my money back

 

I don't think I would return it because of AlienRespawn, but that's just me. If everything else is working as it should, that would not be enough of a reason for me to take such a drastic step.

From looking at the screen shot you posted earlier, I am not sure you are using the latest AlienRespawn. The interface looks like it might be an older version. Did you download it from this location?

After uninstalling Respawn, delete the old partition and use Windows Disk Management Utility to "Extend" the drive and use up the empty space left behind. Reboot. After doing that, reinstall the latest version from the above link. Let it create a new partition and a new recovery system.

 

OMG I finally got it to work.If you want me to ever post on how to install a alienware m17x R2 from a complete wipeout on a hard drive please feel free to let me know and I will post a complete guide to how to fix it.Thankyou again for your help.Its great to chat to people like you and steviejones for advice,

Thanks again
Charl

 

WOOT! Glad you figured it out.

I think the opening post has that kind guide already, but if you have any extra tips that are not covered after looking it over, please feel free to post them. I can link to your tips in the opening post. That's what this thread is for.

I did not realize that version was only compatible with Windows 8. That's funny because the Windows 8 version is not compatible with Windows 7.

Here is a link to the Windows 7 version that came in the email when I purchased the full version of AlienRespawn for Windows 7. (It functions as the factory preinstalled basic version if you don't have the license key.)

http://alwdownload.alienrespawn.com/AlienRespawn_Basic.exe

 

That link for windows 7 works perfect.How much does it cost for the full version of alienrespawn and is it worth it

 

I think it was worth every penny. It was $39.99. It gives you the ability to make more Respawn media, more configuration for backups, etc. It's a decent program.

 

So, I need someone to point me in the right direction to setup my system. I would like to RAID0 the 2 new 840 Pros and use the original for data. Any links/suggestions?

 

There's a thread on the main alienware page that should be just what you need:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/617891-how-sata-iii-ssd-raid0-windows-installation-questions-troubleshooting-thread.html

 

Thanks! Perfect, hope this goes as planned. These SSDs are really something. I am so behind the power curve, used to upgrade my desktop every 4 months or so (11 years ago since I played with upgrades). Amazing laptop for sure.

 

Excellent. I think you will find most of what you need in the opening post. There could be some platform specific snags with new changes (UEFI and Secure Boot). There may be a few links that are outdated, such as newer versions of Intel Rapid Storage Technology, but conceptually it should all be there.

The last few pages in this thread have some success stories where others have circumvented the impediments of the new platform. I look forward to hearing how it turns out. If you need any help, please give us a shout.

 

It is long thread, so before I will read it I need to ask: I order SSD Vertex 4 256GB and I'm wondering does someone successfully install Windows on it from image? At the moment I got M17xR3 with 2xHDD RAID0.

 

The Vertex 4 is a nice SSD... very good performer.

One of the things you will find echoed more than once in this thread and it other threads is that cloning or copying a Windows installation from HDD to SSD is not a good idea. Now and then it works fine for a few people, but most find it does not perform well. There is no reason for you to not try it and see how it goes, just have a "plan B" available that includes Windows installation media handy for a clean install. Going from RAID0 to non-RAID may present a number of other issues as well, and the chances it will perform properly are diminished. Again, no harm in trying. Good luck to you, and let us know how it turns out.

Maybe someone that found success doing it will see your post and comment about it.

 

I'd say if you're going to raid 0 do a clean install as you're likely to prevent a lot of problems. Set it up correctly from the start and if you make an image from that it's good as long as there's no major hardware changes.

I'm definitely interested in using respawn, I've used almost every disk imaging program out there with some really mixed results. If I could build a respawn image that'd be awesome in streamlining the install process.

Never been able to use respawn since I had that m17x>m18x and several different hardware changes from original configuration. Respawn would have been really nice, especially if you can modify the image from a new install?

With my win pro I can slipstream which saves a lot of time but as far as I know with OEM disks you can't slipstream as they're already modified.

Regardless I set up raid 0 and I didn't notice any significant speed increase but when I looked at my benchmarks there was.

Still haven't received the optical drive bay I ordered

Here's one of the benches

 

How to secure data from RAID0 before installing SSD as 2nd drive? Is there only one option - backup all data from 2 drives on another drive?

 

Yes, move all of the data you wish to keep to another drive.

 

Would it be possible to: Add a 1tb 5400 to my SATA II drive in the middle bay (need storage), then make a small partition of 32 gig on my RAID 0 SSD array to then act as a cache ?

I currently have a 500gb hybrid in the sata II port which is great but only being able to move up to a 750gb (hybrid) doesn't seem worth it. I don't want to have to use the caddy option for more storage unless I have no other options.

 

Hi guys I have just been approved for an r2 replacement system from an r1.

My plan is to purchase an ssd and use it as main drive should i install it into bay 0 and format my raid 0 750 gb seagate drives and rebuild raid with the msata as a cache drive Or just swap it to port 1/2 and leave the raid as is with cache drive and format the os partition and leave my factory recovery partion Will that work?

 

Yes, definitely on the hardware arrangement. You will need to try using a partition on the SSD RAID0 for caching. I think so, but I am not 100% positive.

If seems like what you are asking in similar in principle as TBoneSan, with the difference being using an mSATA as the cache drive for your two 750GB in RAID0 (instead of a SSD RAID0 partition being used as the cache). If I am understanding your question, I think the factory recovery partition might not be usable for recovery any more. I think everything else will work correctly. Once you create AlienRespawn media for recovery purposes, there is not a compelling reason to leave the recovery partition on the drives, even if it is still usable. Using the AlienRespawn media will create a new recovery partition when used to reinstall the OS. However, the new recovery partition will be created on the OS drive.

 

saw this thread. but in all honesty as a noob most of it went over my head - i posted in another section of this forum - any help much appreciated , its the bios stuff thats scaring me as im worried i will mess something up and break my new laptop, seriously considering hiring someone to do it but part of me wants to "achieve" doing it myself as a matter of principle, assuming it was a clean install im scared id put drivers in wrong etc, and with cloning it means messign about more in the bios (and ive no idea what raid etc even mean)

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...all-windows-new-r4-seperately-bought-ssd.html

 

This is not difficult, but the first time can be intimidating. You probably do not need to change any BIOS settings. It depends on how you want to configure the system what needs to be done. Installing drivers is simply a matter of downloading them from the Dell Support page and running the executables once the OS is installed. I see you have "500GB 7,200 RPM + 32GB mSATA Caching SSD" and you will need to set up the caching of the 500GB drive for data after you finish installing Windows on the SSD. The 32GB mSATA is too small to offer much value for anything except a caching drive to speed up data transfer on the 500GB HDD.

If your BIOS is set to RAID from the factory, leave it that way. It is the best setting to use, and you will need it set that way to use Intel Rapid Storage Technology to set up the drive caching "acceleration" feature. Do not change it to AHCI as some may suggest. You don't need to know what RAID means since you are not planning to create a RAID membership. A down and dirty definition is two or matching drives paired in a membership to act in partnership. There are different types of RAID. The most common for Alienware ownership is RAID0, which is focused on performance versus data redundancy. If you want to know more, you can read about it on wikipedia.

This is even easier with a data drive. Once you install Windows to the new SSD, simply use Intel RST to make the RAID0 membership of the two data drives within Windows. Refer to the opening post for more information.

 

I read the guide and about the bios, do I have to do a clean install of windows 8 again with the bios set to raid? Currently its at achi, left it at that when I did a clean install of windows 8. Also would you recommend the same model drive? I know it has to be the same speed and size but there are some specs that are different. The drive that came with my machine is the 7K750 HTS727550A9E364

 

There is a registry hack that can allow switching from Sata operation without having to re-install the OS - I'd (personally) probably recommend a fresh install though after it's been switched to Raid in Bios - that just ensures that you are not gonna encounter any headaches that might arise from hacking the registry. As for the HDD itself, the main factor is to have the drive sizes matching. Sure, it's ideal for it to be a matching drive but it is not really THAT important - again, for stability, ideal, but not a deal breaker. The drive you plan on adding might have different performance figures (ever so slightly, maybe) so the Raid membership will perform at the lower of the two. I imagine there isn't much discernible difference so it shouldn't make that much of a difference to the performance of the raid itself.

 

Alright, ill keep this in mind! Thank you!

 

Question,

I am thinking about re-installing my OS Win 7 and was wondering if I save or back up my important information onto my D drive from the SSD, will the partitioning erase the D drive also, or just my SSD where my OS is?

Thanks

 

yes you can back up to another drive and only choose to format the ssd or choose not to format at all and the old windows install is put into its own folder

 

If you choose custom installation you'll have complete control over the partitioning, but even the automatic settings won't touch your other partitions, only the ones on the boot drive.

 

Just got my other hd, whats the best strpe siize for 2 500gb hdds in raid 0? Will be using it for games,data and most of my applications. Thanks!

Well for now its on 128kb stripe size, partition style MBR & allocation size 64kb. Is this correct for what i will use the raid setup for? Or it doesn't matter?

 

lmao so i set stripe to 8k cause window full of small files and smaller stripe gives better iops and faster read at QD1. somehow my 512k score so high it went over 1200 LOL good job CDM for crippling out. that's duo SLC S301 with 100MB bench compressible 8k stripe look at the 4k read... instant win!!

as you can see though on the bottom left corner i get destroyed.. 1000MB big file, not so good for video/media editing also at high QD workload, but i got pair of s3700 or samsung 830 512gb in raid0 for that, gonna stripe it 128/256

 

heres a good one to check if trim is working in raid 0 without going through vantage. if you have doubt after flashing unlocked M18x R2 bios with 11+ version OROM with 11+ RST drivers use this simple program.

TRIM Check: Overview of an essential SSD TRIM functionality tester :: TweakTown

it'll check if trim is working in raid 0 SSD.

 

TRIM should work in AHCI mode in the BIOS in our Alienwares, Windows 8 even supports it.

However, the situation is kind of cloudy as to whether the BIOS in our Alienwares will support TRIM in RAID mode in the BIOS?

Here's a discussion at Intel forums on this subject:

Windows 8 - TRIM optimisations with AHCI & RAID

 

It should for Windows 7 and RAID 0. You've got an R4 with the Intel Series 7 chipset. As long as you've got the up-to-date Intel RST installed, then I see no reason why it shouldn't work for Windows 8 on your R4.

Educate yourself: TRIM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Having the latest version of RST installed in Windows alone might not be enough. You need at least an Ivy Bridge 7 series mobile chipset and a newer Intel Option ROM. The Sandy Bridge 6 series mobile chipset will not support TRIM. If memory serves me correctly, the OROM needs to be like 11.2.0.XXXX or newer to reliably support RAID0 TRIM. Alienware just recently released an updated M18x R2 BIOS (A09) with an OROM that supports it. The original 11.00.XXXX prior to A09 did not. You will need the BIOS set to RAID (not AHCI) and observe what you see on screen during POST before the Alienware logo appears to see what OROM version your motherboard is using.

I recently found this nifty utility for checking. It's called "trimcheck" and you can download it at https://github.com/Cybershadow/trimcheck. You simply extract it to your RAID0 setup in the root directly, right click and run as administrator. This creates a file called "trimcheck-cont.json" to use for testing. You need to wait about 20 or 30 seconds, then right click and run as admin a second time. (Some times I have to run it several times before TRIM kicks in.) It will run trim and delete the file and give you a visual confirmation that TRIM is functional. If it does not seem to work after several attempt, reboot and run the file again. See example screen shots below.

 

I thought that was kind of what I said.

I did not realize it also had to be supported with a BIOS updated with Alienware. But +1 for the utility. I've always wondered how to check if TRIM was functioning (vs being enabled).
Intel Confirms RAID0 TRIM Support on 7-Series Chipsets | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews

 

the same utility as I posted with tweaktown link =)

Mr. Fox, you install window to 1 drive in RAID mode then use RST to extend files onto 2nd drive, but does RST let you choose what stripe you're using? imo only hardware raid lets you do it cause once file installed it'll change entire drive format no?

 

Ha! It sure is the same utility. I really like it. Thanks for posting the tweaktown link.

It has been so long ago since I did it that way that I don't remember whether there are configuration options converting in Windows. When I do a clean install it is normally to a newly created partition on the same RAID0 setup.

 

Wow that trimcheck is great. I was never 100% sure I had trim functioning until now. Thanks for a great post!!!

 

I have had my m18x for a year now. When I bought it, it was suppose to be set up with raid 0 and wasn't. I have 2- 256 G SS HDs. Is there anyway to set it up in raid 0 without re installing everything and losing it all.

 

Yes. You can make a backup image of your hard drive and then install that to your RAID setup. It is a 1:1 image, so you won't lose anything. I personally use Windows' image backup tool, but others like Acronis, etc., are actually made to do it.

You'll need a backup device slightly larger than your current partition.

There's nothing better than a fresh install though, especially if your current install is getting a little 'musty'.

If you install Windows from a USB stick, it is darn quick, especially to a RAID0 SSD setup. Just have all applicable drivers pre-downloaded, and you'll probably be up and running in like 25 minutes max.

Slap your Steam and Origin games on an external drive, that way you won't have to DL them all again. If you backup your User folder within Windows, you'll have just about everything you need. That is unless you keep your music, pics, movies, ect., in a non-standard folder.