HOW TO: Windows Installation Thread (includes SATA III, SSD Upgrade, RAID0 Discussion)

Cool, bro. Glad it is sorted. It's nice to hear you found people at the Norton Forums supporting what I have been saying. A lot of folks don't pay attention to the suggestion to leave the BIOS set on RAID. There are valid reasons that Intel, Dell and others recommend using that setting instead of AHCI.

 

Was checking the price point out between two 120GB and a single 240GB OCZ Agility 3 and is about a $10.00 difference at Newegg (at time of posting the 120GB are sold out). I wanted to go with the single drive to save on using slots.

My M18x is coming with a 750GB hard drive. With a single 240GB SSD do I need to raid0 with the 750GB or can I run it as a single drive for better performance? Will a single 240 SSD run better then two 120GB SSD's in
raid0?

 

Two SSD's in raid zero literally doubles the speed but real world applications, little snappier but I'd say you'll never see the real differences depending on the program your running.. The speeds are so far above and beyond. But I still did it....ended up taking the dvd out, added a caddy and put a 500 gig in. Put the DVD in an external enclosure. The boot up, loading, saves and shutdown are very quick.

 

Firstly, NEVER raid a SSD with a traditional hdd as the raid will only be as fast as the slowest drive in the raid and would nullify those speed benefits of the ssd you just spent lots of cash on! - DONT DO IT!

As said, raid 0 will be faster, maybe not noticeably faster to the eye, it will still be faster than a single ssd. I used to have a single 256gb C300 which was fast on its own but since I now have two 256gb 830's in raid 0, I would definetly say it "feels" alot more responsive overall.

 

Why does Raid 0 with dual SSDs make load times faster as opposed to just 1?

Does Raid 0 combine the SSDs together so that they appear as one large drive? Or do they still appear as individual drives on the system?


In raid 0 will you have a total of 256gb storage or 512gb storage?

 

It may not "appear" to be faster but it is. Maybe not mind-blowingly different in real world terms but I noticed everything was "snappier" with them raided. It may reduce boot time but I never really bothered timing it anyhow...takes me about 15 seconds to get from pushing the power button to a fully loaded desktop. Other apps such as photoshop etc may load a few seconds faster but raiding isnt going to "double" the speed by any real world means. You may shave a few seconds off boot time too. There is always an argument about wether to raid or not - some say do it, some say dont....resons FOR would be as above (benchamrks are significantly faster but how often do you spend all day benching your drives? lol). Arguments against raiding would be that at the moment, there is no trim support which means you will be reliant upon garbage collection to keep your drives in tip-top shape. Intel have recently announced that they are going to have RST with trim support for raided ssd's but there is no difinitive timescale yet - but it WILL happen. GC on the other hand does a pretty good job of keeping things tidy - especially if you leave the system idle at login for a while for GC to do its thing.

The other thing to possibly consider with a raid 0 would be drive failure - obvioulsy with no moving parts, a ssd's lifespan should be far greater than any normal platter drive BUT there is always a possibility that one drive fails and if it DOES, you lose everything...in which case, its advisable to keep up to date images of your system should it happen (which is unlikely anyway but best to be safe than sorry).

Yes, if you raid the drives, you will get one "big" drive which you will see as just one drive....mine is C: and allowing for the formatting/factory provisioning, I get 476gb of free space before instaling the OS.

Interesting read over here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1559911

 

Ah ok, I wouldn't be too worried about losing all my data because I usually keep a backup of all my important files on an external hard drive. Also, did you raid your drives yourself or did you purchase your M18x from Dell "Pre-raided"?

What is Trim?

 

These ones shipped installed in raid 0 but its quite easy to set up a raid by pressing CTRL & I at boot and going through the relevant process. TRIM is basically a way of your ssd maintaining itself by cleaning out old blocks of data that are no longer useful - think of it like defragmenting a normal hdd - its just a command that keeps the drive itself performing as well and uncluttered as it can do. Also note to NEVER derfag a solid state drive as its pointless with either effective trim or garbage collection and will do more harm than good. Disable scheduled defragmentation if you instal a SSD (at least for the ssd, anyway)

 

I installed a Samsung SSD over the weekend and had the Samsung SSD Magician software deactivate defragmentation for me. After I noticed that I couldn't defrag anything after that, I had the SSD Magician software reactivate defragmentation. I noticed that Windows automatically disabled (and won't even let me activate) automatic defragmentation of my SSD's partitions.

I think someone had their thinking cap on at Microsoft when they were developing Win 7

 

Yup. Windows "should" auto disable defragging but it doesnt always do it....I had to manually disable scheduled defragging

 

I just got my M18x w/ 2 Samsung 830's in a RAID 0 configuration. It appears that the partitions are not properly aligned?

I realize that Windows 7 is SSD aware and it is suppose to do the right. It does do the right ting like turn off defrag but I think the partition alignment is incorrect.

Partition Alignment Tool Check url: SSD Alignment Calculator | techPowerUp

url for material below: 9.2.14.2.1. Use SSD Alignment Calculator by TechPowerUp.com

1. Partition Offset
   
   
   ​
2. How to get info
   
   
   ​
3. Bring up "System Information"
   
   
   ​
4. Window start search box: msinfo32
   
   
   ​
5. In MSInfo: Components - Storage - Disks - Partition Starting Offset
   
   
   ​
6. On machine lucerobe005, it had a value of 32,256 bytes
7. File Allocation Unit Size
   
   
   ​
8. How to get info
   
   
   ​
9. cmd "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo L:"
   
   
   ​
10. Where L is the drive letter, listed as "Bytes Per Cluster"
    
    
    ​
11. On machine lucerobe005, it had a value of 4,096
12. Select SSD
    
    
    ​
13. Selected "Custom" because it did not list the Samsung 830's that machine lucerobe005 has.
14. NAND Erase Block Size
    
    
    ​
15. How to get info
    
    
    ​
16. From SSD manufacturer
    
    
    ​
17. Sent an email to Samsung support
    
    
    ​
18. On machine lucerobe005, it had a value of ???
19. NAND Page Size
    
    
    ​
20. How to get info
    
    
    ​
21. From SSD manufacturer
    
    
    ​
22. Sent an email to Samsung support
    
    
    ​
23. On machine lucerobe005, it had a value of ???
24. Running RAID - Yes
25. Stripe Unit Size
    
    
    ​
26. On machine lucerobe005
    
    
    ​
27. Bring up "Intel Rapid Storage Technology"
    
    
    ​
28. Click on "Manage"
    
    
    ​
29. Click on "M18X_RAID0 Type RAID 0 477 GB"
    
    
    ​
30. Data strip size size: 128 KB
31. Outputs
    
    
    ​
32. Partition Offset ÷ NAND Page Size
    
    
    ​
33. Not applicable on machine lucerobe005 because don't know the NAND page size.
    
    
    ​
34. Partition Offset ÷ NAND Erase Block Size
    
    
    ​
35. Not applicable on machine lucerobe005 because don't know the NAND Erase Block Size.
36. Partition Offset ÷ File Allocation Unit Size
    
    
    ​
37. On machine lucerobe005 it misaligned.
38. Partition Offset ÷ Stripe Unit Size
    
    
    ​
39. On machine lucerobe005 it misaligned.
40. Stripe Unit Size ÷ File Allocation Unit Size
    
    
    ​
41. On machine lucerobe005 it aligned

SSD partition alignment is covered extensively. The link below contains a list of my favorites

url: D.5. Partition Alignment

 

Quick question for all you RAID guru's

My M18X only has one hard drive in it and came from the factory with the RAID set in BIOS. I never noticed and the system has worked fine. I was installing a new SSD drive and windows does not see it but BIOS does and it has it set in RAID with my other drive, but it can not be RAID because they are two different size drives. Windows does show the full hard drive space on the hard drive that is supposedly set in RAID.

If I turn RAID off in BIOS will the main hard drive still be intact and bootable?

 

Please post in the correct thread rather than creating a new thread to ask simple questions. I closed your new thread and moved it into this established discussion in case you have more questions along the same lines. Chances are great that you will find most of your questions will already be answered in this or other threads related to RAID and SSD.

This is by design. It is recommended that you leave it set that way. It's the best setting to use regardless of what kind or how many drives are installed. There is no reason to change the BIOS setting... ever. Unless you need to set AHCI mode (temporarily) to flash drive firmware or you find the Ctrl+I screen annoying, leaving it set for RAID and forget it.

Until you manually create a RAID0 drive membership (array) there is no actual RAID and everything will work fine. If all you did was physically install the drive, then Windows is not going to "see" it in My Computer. However, it will be visible in the Windows Disk Management utility. From there is can be initialized, formatted and assigned a drive letter. There is no point in doing that, because you will realize no benefit from SSD using it for the data drive and the HDD for the OS. You need to put the SSD in the caddy for SATA Port0, do a clean Windows installation and put the HDD in Port1 to use it as a data drive. Again, all this is done with the BIOS set on RAID... this is the default and it has more advantages than it does disadvantages.

Short answer, yes and no. Until you do something to the data and/or partitions on the drive, it will remain intact. If you change from RAID to AHCI in BIOS you will not be able to boot on that drive. If you set the BIOS back to RAID it should boot fine.

 

Thanks for the move Mr.Fox...I noticed I should have been in a different thread after I posted. But I did not know how to move it. I did get my SSD set up fine without touching the Bios settings thanks for all the useful information.

 

You're welcome, buddy. Glad you got it all sorted.

There is no way you can move your post, but if you PM a moderator we are more than happy to help you move it.

I failed to notice earlier than you are a new member of our Community. Welcome to NBR Forums. We are glad you joined and especially happy to have you in the Alienware Forums.

Please click the first link in my signature. This will take you to a collection of useful threads. Please note the links at the bottom of the post that takes you to, review the forum rules and tip on how to effectively use Google to search our forum.

 

I ordered and received 2 Crucial M4 256gb SSD hard drives. Should I clone my current hdd with an Apricorn SATA Wire 3.0 Notebook Drive Upgrade Kit or just do a clean install?

 

Just do a clean install. You will save lots of grief and stress.

 

No, please don't. See below.

I second the motion. Cloning from HDD to SSD is not a good idea. It will work, but performance is usually hampered as the drive is not optimized for SSD. We don't want you to end up with performance issues.

Since you have 2 of those awesome bad boys, strap 'em in for a RAID0 and do a clean install. You'll be glad you did. It will be wicked fast.

Be sure to download the F6 Intel Rapid Store Technology drivers from Intel, because you will more likely than not need to select them during the Windows installation. If you put them on a USB thumb drive and point Windows there you will be in good shape. Once Windows is installed, you want to disable LPM. The attached file has the .reg files you need to do that on SATA Port0 and SATA Port1. (This will help to ensure your drives run at SATA-III 6GB/s.)

 

Thanks for the input. Getting ready to get started. I'll post should I have any questions.

 

Just wanted to report i had the SATA3/6gbs problem with my Vertex 3 120gb drive when in port0 on Motherboard REV:G2 1115 replaced motherboard with REV:H2 ???? and problem has disappeared. Like Fox said this seems to be a random issue on some motherboards and the parts on them.

 

Glad that is fixed, Brother Dan.

 

Installed 2 Corsair 256gb M4 SSD in RAID 0. Did a clean install of window 7 in raid mode, followed by the required drivers. Loaded the AW programs as well. Intel Rapid Storage Technology shows the 2 separate drives. After searching thru the SSD threads I found what I needed to change the volume in the advance tab. Now shows as one drive. No problems encountered at all with the load, no BSOD's, everything is running smoothly and noticeably fast. Thanks to Mr. Fox for his direction and tips!!!

 

1SGRET - Good job! I knew you could do it! +1

 

very nice! can you try and run crystal disk mark?

 

Yes, please do. I'd love to see how your M4 RAID0 looks.

Here is my single M4...

 

Outstanding speed, 1SGRET. Very nice. Now try an AS SSD Benchmark.



You can use the Windows 7 Snipping Tool to save all or part of what is on your screen to a JPG or PNG file. You can upload the photo to Image Shack and use the picture tool to add the URL of your photo, or you can simply click on the Go Advanced button and Manage Attachments to add a thumbnail.

 

Here it is:

 

WOOT! Man, that's gotta make you smile, bud. Very nice.

It's 11:10PM here, so you're 1:10AM in Arkansas. Time for me to hit the hay. Thanks for sharing your SSD speed tests, bro.

 

Yes it does and your Welcome! I retired last March (for the second time) so I get to sleep in whenever I want!

 

I wanted to do a clean install of my m17xR3. But my Raid 0 is giving me probs.

But keep getting this error at the last part of the install:



I've tried to "Load Driver" in the "where to install windows" section and error pop up
"windows 7 does not support the installation of unsigned 64 bit drivers"
Tried all the window 7 drivers on intels site with the same result.

Also tried Repair section>load driver> choose .inf
get the error "the specified location does not contain information about your hardware"

System Specs:

CPU - Intel i7 2820QM
GPU - ATi Radeon 6990m
MOBO - Alienware M17xR3
RAM - 8GB (2GB x4) @ 664 MHz 9-9-9-24-2T
HDD - 1.5TB Raid 0 (2x 750GB 7200RPM)

Currently trying to install a 200gb raid partition. Not sure what else to do.

 

I am assuming you have the BIOS set to RAID and created the RAID0 array using Ctrl+I to access the RAID utility during POST before starting the installation process. Attached are the Intel RST F6 drivers that I always use. It's the latest from Intel and it works perfectly. Perhaps you have somehow downloaded the wrong one.

If the attached F6 drivers still do not work, follow these steps:

• Press F2 during startup and verify the BIOS is set to RAID, F10 to save and reboot
• Press Ctrl+I during post and break the RAID0 array to make the drives separate
• Install Windows in a non-RAID array, finish all of your driver installations
• Install Intel Rapid Store Technology (iata_enu_10.8.0.1003.exe)
• Use Intel Rapid Store Technology within Windows to create the RAID0 array. (It may take an hour or so to complete.)

Hope this helps. I have done this several times and it has always worked perfectly.

 

Alright tried that driver you gave me and got the same error:
"windows 7 does not support the installation of unsigned 64 bit drivers"

So I made the drives non-raid and trying to install windows on non raid array as we speak. This will take a while lol

Will edit this post when it's done. Thanks for the help see you soon

 

Cool. I'll be looking for your reply. Good luck.

 

Meh Got the error at the very end:

Windows Setup could not configure windows to run on this computer's hardware.

Jesus! D:

Edit:

Last night Installed windows switching from Raid to ATA in bios and windows installed.
Could I do that and then Use Intel Rapid Store Technology within Windows to create the RAID0 array?

or that wont work?

 

No, unfortunately that won't work. There has to be something not set up correctly or you would not be getting that error. It's probably something very simple that is just being overlooked.

Did you delete all of the existing partitions and reformat before starting the Windows installation? I should have put that in the list of things to do. Sorry I didn't include that step. Did Windows recognize them as separate drives? You should start out seeing nothing but free space on two separate drives at the first part of the installation process. You might want to just pull out HDD1 and leave only HDD0 installed to force it to go your way.

 

Yes I reformatted it and Yes, in the select where to install windows it showed two HDDs

 

Hmm. Strange. Before formatting, you deleted all partitions, too. Right?

Try pulling out one of the drives, delete all of the partitions so the one installed drive has only free space left and install Windows to use 100% of the free space. Once the installation is finished (as we hope it will) you can put the other HDD back in, delete all partitions, create and format a new one.

Question: was there a problem that prompted the reinstall to begin with, or just a maintenance procedure? Just asking in case there is a hardware issue (like one of the HDD failing) that could be causing this.

 

Pull it out like...literally? ._. would opening it void my warranty. Edit: yeah delete all parts then formatted

And Nope just wanted a clean install. If I knew this would happen I wouldn't of bothered :/

 

No, that will not hurt your warranty. Something is stopping the installation and the original factory partitions are wonky. The AlienRespawn partition has the files Windows uses for booting, so that all needs to be totally wiped out to do a proper reinstallation. If you already installed Windows with the BIOS in ATA mode, I don't know what the current drive configuration is looking like, so starting out with nothing but free space, with no partitions at all and one drive may help eliminate a problem that is halting the installation.

If the thought of doing that is too scary to you, you could try one more time to delete every partition that exists on both drives. I think it there is an Advanced mode during that part of Windows setup that will show more detail about the drives. Only format one drive if you leave both installed, but delete all partitions on both. You can easily create the partition on the empty drive after the Windows installation finishes.

Again, this is probably something super simple that is just getting overlooked by accident.

Check out this thread and maybe you can identify a step that is being missed. http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...d0-questions-troubleshooting-discussions.html

 

Just curious, does the media you are using have SP1 integrated already? If not, that might be the problem?

 

It's soooo crazy I just thought
"to hell with it I will try this one more time"

Delete Parts then formatted and it worked.

Not really sure what I did differently.... but it worked.

So going to install drivers and then do Intel Rapid Store Technology.

Any thing I need to know before doing Intel Rapid Store Technology since I've never done it before.

 

Glad you got through the installation. I knew you could do it, Sweet Ivy. +1

Nope, no mystery. Simply run the Windows installer for RST. Once you are done with the installation, you can use the RST utility to create the RAID0 array. Be sure to install the Intel Control Center: Intel® Rapid Storage Technology for Windows 7 x64/x86 - RST Drivers and Intel Control Center

For anyone else that runs into similar challenges...

Basically, you want to be sure that any drives in the system have only unallocated space before you begin the installation to the unallocated space. (Unallocated space means there are no partitions on the drive.) The series of screen shots below depict what you should see with one HDD. With two HDD, one would be called Disk 0 Unallocated Space and the other would be called Disk 1 Unallocated Space.

 

Ok thanks fox I edited topic title not so if you want to lock this thread or not.

 

You're welcome

I will just merge this thread with the one created exactly for this type of assistance. No need to close it down. Your experience will probably help someone else later.

If you deleted partitions on both drives, you can create partitions on the second drive and format them by using the Windows Disk Management Utility found in your Administrative Tools. I think you can skip that if you are going to create the RAID0 array with RST. There is only a small performance increase using RAID0 with a pair of ordinary HDD. Some folks prefer to keep the drives separate and use the second drive for data storage. This allows you to do a clean installation of Windows later on without losing any data on the "slave" drive.



If you run into any more complications, just give a shout on the thread or send me a PM, or both.

 

Thinking about it....Yeah havent really seen a big difference in performance.

If I wanted to not to do raid but make the other into a slave drive for back up. what do I need to do differently?

 

All you would need to do is go into the Disk Management Utility and set up the drive. You can create a partition in the unallocated space, assign a drive letter and format the drive. You can access the options through right-click. Once it is ready for use, you may need to reboot for Windows to start using it.

 

Got a new m17x coming that I'll be installing 2 x 256GB m4's as RAID0 in and new ram.

A few questions...

1) I want to update the firmware of both drives first thing. So do I open up the machine, replace both drives, set BIOS to IDE mode and run ISO CD to update them?

Then once firmware is updated, set back to RAID, and then install windows, or do I install RST software before windows?

2) I saw somewhere you need to install something to get the drives speed to 6GB/s. Will the firmware update accomplish this, or is it something different?

3) I'm going to replace all RAM sticks with hyperX, including the slots under the keyboard. Should I do that first before swapping out the drives to make sure there's no problems, or does it really not matter, and I can swap out the ram sticks and the drives at the same time?

Thanks, just trying to have a gameplan

 

Great choice on the Crucial M4 SSD. They are outstanding drives. Responses are below in red font...

Edit: here is a link to the reg files to disable LPM.

 

Thank you very much!! It's coming tomorrow!