How far Alienware has gone backwards

O.k. I'll get the info for you when I get home.

 

When tuned for maximum performance, at 4.3GHz my 4930MX pulls about 85W. At 4.6GHz it's about 160W ( example) and I have seen as much as 180W at 4.8GHz. This is why a single 330W AC adapter for the 18 is a complete joke.

 

4.5x 4 = 160W? I think Haswell is the joke here, are you KIDDING me?

 

Nope. Not even kidding. Skylake peaks out about 110-115W~ at 4.7GHz. Yes, Haswell is, for the most part, a joke.

 

That is God awful power consumption....I wouldn't feel comfortable running a CPU that hot. I think I topped Ivy Bridge at 96W running 4.8GHz

 

If someone has a well working 4940Mx overclocked. Post bench as Wprime 1024M, Cinebench R11.5 and R15 + 3Dmark11. It's Useful to see what this Hotwell version can provide in bench.

 

Meh, I don't really care about that part. The more watts the better the performance and I actually view it as an extremely positive thing. You cannot get show-stopping performance without pulling some serious watts. I've actually pulled 110W with my 3920XM. As long as the temps are managed there's nothing to be too concerned about as far as power draw, other than exhausting the capacity of the AC adapter(s). Pulling lots of watts and using adequate voltage for extreme overclocking has never harmed any of my CPUs or GPUs, and Lord knows they have worked hard to make me happy. They're like a Timex... take a lickin' and keep on tickin' LOL.

Now, temps are different story. Unmanaged thermals can kill GPUs and weaken CPUs if you ignore the problem. Managing temps on Haswell is difficult, and high temps are not a good thing if left unchecked. I watch temps like a hawk.

 

It's terribly inefficient. 4.5Ghz 160W Haswell vs 4.8GHz 96-100W Ivy Bridge, for a 5-8% IPC gain? Screw that....

 

FIVR wasnt done well on haswell.

 

Yeah, agree... Ivy Bridge is definitely the smarter choice for Extreme CPU. FIVR on Haswell was a really stupid idea, and it shows by how it turned out.

BUT, if you have a good 4930XM and keep it cool, it is definitely more lethal than an Ivy XM. It's a big "IF" though, because good ones are not very common.

 

So compared to 4xxx, the 3xxx cpu run cooler and more power efficient. And therefore you would recommend the M17x R4 (3xxx)over the A17 R1 (4xxx)?


Also, with svl7's modded bios solder chip, dual 330w available yet for A18 R1?

 

M17x R4 + M18x R2 all day everday over the bastard AW17 and AW18 models. Any day.

 

I don't know about that. The situation is totally different with the M17xR4. I would recommend an M18xR2 over an 18, absolutely. M17xR4 has some CPU TDP limitations and memory overclocking issues the M18xR2 does not have. I know @j95 has commented on this before. Maybe see what he thinks. The M17xR4 is also not made as well (plastic chassis versus metal frame and lid on the 17). The chassis on the AW17 is built really well... like a brick house.

If I were going to go with a single GPU system, in that case I think I would choose the 17 over the M17xR4 without any hesitation. I think it is the better of those two and everything I have seen from @Papusan benching the AW17 suggests it is the better choice as well for the 17" single GPU system, even though the opposite is true for the 18" monsters. Another plus to the AW17 is a 330W AC adapter (what it really needs for extreme overclocking) is 100% plug and play. That's not the case for the M17xR4. You would need to build a dual 240W adapter or an in-line dongle to use a 330W adapter like @Nospheratu did.

Now, if @Swick1981 builds in Maxwell Legacy support for the M17xR4 like he has the M18xR2, that would change my opinion unless or until the same thing happens for the AW17. Having to run only Windows 8 or newer and use UEFI without CSM, putting up with 8-beeps nonsense and having to remove GPUs to boot in DOS mode for flashing is something I have zero tolerance for.

 

Slv7 mod chip needs soldering mod and only machine which had that was Svl7's own AW17, He's not active anymore, busy with personal life.
Only he can do that else Dell needs to remove the secure flash on the Haswell 2013 lineup Or someone who's extremely good at hacking can crack that secure flash would help the Ranger and Viking lineup.

Dual PSU mod doesn't work on the AW18 because dell had nerfed the mobo not to take that amount of power & M17x R4 needs a small mod to use the 330W PSU while the AW17 is P&P.

The M18x R2 is the best Alienware ever made. If maxwell throttling gets cured then we have the former king of hill back into the competition again...If that happens I'll try to get one myself for sure.

 

If I could get the right files for the 17 and 18 (unlocked BIOS .bin file) desoldering the chip, flashing it, and putting it back on (either soldered direct or in a EEPROM socket) is really easy. You can do it with an ordinary soldering iron, and USB programmers are not very expensive. I have asked @svl7 twice for his help with the firmware mod but never heard back from him because of his personal situation. It takes a different type of file for flashing with a USB programmer than what is used by the Insyde flasher software. This might be something @Prema could do someday if people donate sufficiently to make the effort attractive enough for him to consider it a worthy investment of his time.

 

The legacy support will come. Not having to deal with NVRAM is 10000x better than struggling with the Alienware 17 R1

 

This is true. However, with an unlocked BIOS and the chip mounted in a socket, dealing with NVRAM would no longer be a problem. If something went haywire, you simply pop it out, flash it, pop it back in... no fuss, no muss. But, yeah... using NVRAM for BIOS settings really sucks. Amazing what highly educated retards can do to break things that worked extremely well before they touched them.

 

NVRAM problem is there on both AW17, AW18 (Eurocom X9 also implemented that trash) resetting that is a PITA. From Mr. Fox's old posts and photos of AW17, has contacts to reset the cancer NVRAM which the Dell hideously hid inside the chassis Near battery connector, clear shot on mobo..maybe add a switch to reset & sBIOS chip = win but high skill.

I cannot stop trashing this new private dell they just destroyed everything the progress Alienware made, completely retarded.

 

It's not as difficult to reset the NVRAM on the Sky X9 as the 17 and 18. But, this is how all machines are now. It's not a problem that is unique to the 17 and 18. The good old days are really over. And, I think we ain't seen nothing yet in terms of how bad things are going to get. I think we are just scratching the surface on sucky garbage technology. I'm predicting Pascal is going to be a ball-buster that makes a lot of people--especially those that are holding out and skipping Maxwell for the next GPU upgrade--frothy with rage when they discover they waited for something that won't work. I might be wrong, so we'll have to see how the drama unfolds.

 

Someone who knows how to reset bios with the new EVGA BGABook? This new turdbook has a halfway unlocked bios, so reset the bios should be simple in that model. Maybe Evga do something correct with that model?

 

Or learn from the desktop workstation/OC motherboards and add dual socket BIOS chip.

 

So many issues with the non-bga alienwares

Almost made me think it's easier to just buy an ultrabook and use my desktop exclusively for gaming -___-

 

Honestly dude, thats what I am switching to.

 

Then you can imagine what came after these...

 

Why buy a BGA turdbook and contribute to the demise of a once great platform if you're going to game on a desktop? People willing to compromise and go with the flow is what got us into this despicable mess to begin with. Had we stuck together and done it right, that horrible concept would and should have failed miserably.

Just buy a $300 Acer or $500 Dell Inspiron for couch surfing, or even a $100 Chromebook. Those are actually acceptable uses of BGA junknology. No point in spending more than that on a disposable piece of crap. Or, just do the smart thing if you want a powerful notebook and buy one of the new Clevos with a 6700K and GTX 980 200W GPU.

 

Not buying bro. I have a spare one that I am using until its dead and not replacing. And yes, this one is around 500$ 3 years ago. I dont spend more than that on disposable hardware. Its one of those sony POS.

 

Alienware corporation made notebooks enjoyed so many upgrades without any issues, we all know that and as the thread title suggests...The dell's insatiable greed and corruption for deep pockets absolutely turned the Alienware into BGA turd shiny noob books. No one expected this 180 degrees steep regression but some fore saw when the 2013 haswell machines were revealed...

Now Alienware's true enthusiast vision is carried out the Phoenix, Wingman, Batman machines, the Avenger, Viking, Voyager, Ranger will enjoy upgrades a few more years and then the Alienware legacy will be dead, Clevo is the only viable option for pure un restricted powerhouse DTR notebooks, ofc powered by Premamod. To mention at loss of the striking looks, minor build quality loss like Alienwares.

MSI on the otherhand gimp the powerful hardware and use soldered CPUs in them, ASUS are also similar when it comes to locking out user. So these are no match to Clevo DTRs.

 

I have the M15x (with 980M) for that purpose.

Desktop is powerful enough for latest games, while the M15x will run at a slightly lower graphical setting if needed.

MSi's decision might be okay in this case. The 6820HK is good enough and you can swap out the mxm gpu. I don't see the problem here until you need to upgrade the CPU (which you probably won't need to for a long time).





And sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know the proper placement of thermal pads for the 980M with M15x's heatsink? I have 1.5mm and 2mm pads but nothing thinner.

Maybe previous owners like @Mr. Fox can pitch in

 

Is this a big joke? Have we come to 1 April 2017? Long time since 1 April 2016 now A soldered processor is best suited for phone or a tablet(maybe in a mini pc aka 11"). Not in a laptop of a reasonable value. If everyone had the same opinion, everything would have been soldered on the motherboard long time ago. Even on the best from Clevo... This is nonsense from you. BGA hardware is a big NO NO in all laptops. Even in a 14" RazerBook.

 

The 6820HK isn't that much behind the 4930MX in terms of singlethread performance, which indicates that the processing power seems to be good enough if you can maintain a 4.2ghz oc 24/7.

Not as good compared to if it were PGA, but it's good enough.

 

Never say BGA is good when papusan is around, It's a taboo..LoL

 

Yeah, singlethread performance aka one core at 4.2GHz and the rest of the cores at 3.9... Do not think you would have said the same if you had a very good BGA junk (if it is possible to have a good chips ) and had to replace the motherboard. Or the warranty on your TurdBook has expired and a part of the motherboard has failed. Maybe you will also accept that OEM companies start solder the ram on their CrapBooks motherboard. Yeah.

 

BGA is trash. Thinking it is OK or good enough is precisely why we are are in such a sorry state of affairs and surrounded by garbage jokebooks. Sometimes taking a stand and doing what is right is more important than compromise. They've already been given an inch, and they've already taken a mile. It needs to end now or it is only going to get worse. We've seen the pathetic filth sold my Razer, MSI and ASUS and viewed it in disgust for years. That cancer has metastasized and spread to Alienware. We are in a very dangerous place now. If it spreads to Clevo the party is over and there will be absolutely nothing respectable left in notebooks. It pains me greatly to see someone that considers himself an enthusiast to say it is OK or "good enough" and I'm serious. I am not being sarcastic. This is very, very serious. It's not OK, and it's not "good enough" at all. This is like watching a member of the family destroy their own life with drugs or alcohol. They think they can control it, but they cannot. They are deceived. It will destroy them, their family and their friends. It has already destroyed Alienware. It needs to stop. The moment a person gives money for BGA filth that person becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution. We need to have a family "intervention" and cure this disease. @D2 Ultima - sick 'em, bubba.

 

Its only "ok" on core m and maybe the ****tiest of core i3. I am sorry, but 6xxxHQ is a joke CPU for serious performance notebook, its only ok on mid end laptops as a stop gap measure for performance away from a main PC. Generally, the entire skylake line is disappointing but we will save that talk for another time.

BGA CPUs tends to have the ****tiest binning and considering the bad 14nm yield, they really are getting the crap sandwich. Its fine when BGA performance laptops are limited to boutique builders like aorus for people who like those options but it shouldnt be the general tread. Unless you love to replace the entire laptop when one of the low quality VRMs on your board blew in overclocking or your GPU finally had enough under that cramp 14inch chassis.

Now dont get me wrong, I am really looking forward to what polaris can bring in terms of performance on the lower spec lighter laptops, but they are marketed as fancy lightweight laptops that ARENT for real works. I dont see why the real powerhouse laptop should be replaced. Again, not saying they dont have a place for people who like lightweight thin laptops, just not in performance machines.

 

I never cared about the filth sold by MSI, ASUS and Razer. It was irrelevant. It didn't affect me... live and let live. I was happy for the people that were happy with living a different lifestyle. But, when the bar gets set to the bottom and there are no other options available that is unacceptable. It affects me and other innocent bystanders that don't want the PC enthusiast equivalent of computer gonorrhea forced upon them.

 

To be frank, I really dont think BGA saves them much money anyways. Its all this new thin client craze....

 

how does bga save money anyways?

 

The MXM standard I think its owned by nvidia.

 

The Clevo's will never go that way, their Z series chipset and the P570WM legendary X79 chipsets prove it, glad that that corporation exists.

Wish Alienware did that,
An M18x R2 chassis with X79 chipset or maybe new Z170 chipset or the X99 to go full bore balls to walls with all full maxed out specs ! IPS 120Hz panel on special request, A carbon fibre shell for $$$$ & a cutout for sBIOS chip etc...I remember raidriar wanted to make a sturdy metal machined chassis computer similar to this.
I'll wait...one can dream hehe.

 

Yes, well we have a few full time staff working on Bioses, now, and there have been little to no issues with the latest or newer models. There are also premium versions of the models too, you can get the base configurations for average home users, and there are the creme a la creme where we reserve putting the unlocked bioses on the higher performing silicon.
So, if you opted for a cutting corners and purchased the cheapest one, well, we guarantee it will work as it was intended. However, if you purchased one of our higher graded ones, that come with the unlocked bios and all the bells and whistles, you can bet your pants it's going to fly !
You get what you pay for, and while we have unbeatable pricing on models, if something seems too good to be true, it might just be that.

Prema's bioses are not for everyone. It is not something we would recommend every machine come stock with. Since some of the vbioses I've seen are overvolted on different profiles, on lower grade cards, like the ones found stock on cheap lower end system, that are pulled and sold by many resellers as standalone new cards, simply can not handle the extra juice for long, and then people contact me asking if they can get the cards fixed, even though i am not the one who sold it to them. I get like 5 messages a week from people having burnt out a card after 8-9-10 months, using a Prema vbios. In the 18 months I've used out vbioses, none out of the 5800 sold now, have come back burnt. I do not think this is Prema's fault, but people doing flashing after flashing, lowering the cards potential by extreme overclocking and benching and the overvolting plays a part in it too. It all adds up. The thing is, it's like just not a good idea to give that extra performance on stock laptops to the average customer, it is a better service to charge abit more, test the hardware, and reserve those special units for the ones asking for them or whom directly desire the best of the best and know and appreciate the difference.

Out of many MANY examples I've seen our vbios perform better and not need extra flashing. You can have the vbios chips flashed before assembly, and this helps protect the card and the chip, and is a good practice. This is why some of us offer to flash the cards for you, DURING assembly (as opposed to inside a laptop, the chips can be flashed themselves separately).

Now, if you have a system capable, and have the mindset to carefully make use of extra power, go get an unlocked bios and go nuts. The stock bios's usually only have branding changes and small revisions for differences in brands, usually they do not have any fixes for extra performance, to keep things inline with other stock bioses.Those are separate, though available. Companies like Alienware did this too, they had unlocked versions, but you had to purchase special unlocked CPU's to go with the laptop, and have requested it. It wasn't enough to just buy the Extreme cpu versions.

Man I'm going on a late night rant I don't even have an idea what I'm talking about anymore hahah, did i derail this thread again ? Something about Alienware I hope.. how the mighty hath fallen...gives us all something to do mind you.

 

I know you offer high quality graphics(high Asic score) and good support.
Can you tell me what is the average Asic score on 980 desktop versions cards in the higher quality systems? And what is the highest Asic score you have seen on those graphics? Thanks.

Other topic @Ashtrix You can bet on, that DELLIENWARE will offer secure flash if they would or wanted design a new high end Aw model with socket chipset and unlocked processors. Who want a new beast from Aw with unlocked crippled bios you can't mod for better performance? This will be the same **** as last models with proper socket hardware and secure flash. You can't change a company philosophy who prefer offer this junk of security in their models. You have to learn to walk before you can run. The same applies to DELLIENWARE Now.

 

Single GPU

Code:

M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8410758
Score P10921 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    11164

Physics Score
    11320

Combined Score
    8986


M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2254004
Score 7298 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    8192

Physics Score
    12304

Combined Score
    3006


M17xR4
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8560056
Score P10649 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    11077

Physics Score
    10662

Combined Score
    8249


M17xR4
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2505284
Score 7175 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    8071

Physics Score
    11494

Combined Score
    2995


M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8053357
Score P10449 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3920XM
Graphics Score
    10614

Physics Score
    11332

Combined Score
    8476


M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3160042
Score 7079 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3920XM

Graphics Score
    7936

Physics Score
    11832

Combined Score
    2935


Alienware 18
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/4112269
Score 6920 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4930MX

Graphics Score
    7673

Physics Score
    12649

Combined Score
    2866


Alienware 17
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/4951101
Score 6524 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4930MX

Graphics Score
    7220

Physics Score
    12031

Combined Score
    2708


3DM11 Single GPU GTX 780M / 4930MX AW17 & AW18 no matching results.


Alienware
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9911234
Score P7928 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4940MX

Graphics Score
    7803

Physics Score
    10239

Combined Score
    6509


Alienware
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/6449180
Score 10030 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4930MX

Graphics Score
    11824

Physics Score
    11179

Combined Score
    4376


Alienware
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/7162107
Score 10031 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4940MX

Graphics Score
    11735

Physics Score
    11480

Combined Score
    4403


Alienware
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9852538
Score P13082 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4930MX

Graphics Score
    15079

Physics Score
    9732

Combined Score
    8860


Alienware
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/10906523
Score P13746 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-4940MX

Graphics Score
    15227

Physics Score
    10615

Combined Score
    10683


M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5068464
Score 10666 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3920XM

Graphics Score
    12576

Physics Score
    12209

Combined Score
    4581


M18xR2
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9921581
Score P14176 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3920XM

Graphics Score
  16003

Physics Score
  10776

Combined Score
  10251


M17xR4
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/4772347
Score 10869 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    13062

Physics Score
    11032

Combined Score
    4765


M17xR4
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/10989723
Score P14307 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M(1x) and Intel Core i7-3940XM

Graphics Score
    16808

Physics Score
    10253

Combined Score
    9396

@godfafa_kr's R4/ 3940XM Physics FS 12000, 3DM11 11000

RAM 4x4GB @2133 or 4x8GB @_2000 CL9

Both AW17 & M17xR4 crippled CPU performance...GPU OCing AW17s are quite inferior...I still need the eSATA port, not plain plastic chassis, I had to slightly modify the metal frame to fit a rather large copper shim for the PCH...

 

I had m17x R4 and AW17 and both are good.
I just want to mention somethings that you missed.

1) as you mentioned, R4 has a power limit. So does AW17.Different kind though. m18x R2 has none except that the highest voltage to CPU is locked at 1.502v or something.
2) 330w AC adapter works fine with R4 too. It's just PNP. Nospheratus had m17x R1 or R2, I guess. Dont have to use dual 240w for R4.
3) As J95 mentioned, AW17 has GPU problem. Even with same card at same clock, AW17's GPU performs less than m17x R4 and even m17x R3.

Before era of maxwell, if I had to choose one between AW17 and m17x R4 I'd definitely choose m17x R4.
But at this moment I'd prefer AW17 and AW18 to m17x R4 and m18x R2, respectively, since maxwell doens't seem to work well on m17x R4 and m18x R2.

 

Can I know what's that power limit that's being mentioned here about on the single GPU machines ?

 

m17x r4 can not dislock msr lock. cpu tdp can not be overridden by any kind of bios.
aw17 can not hold max clock more than 30sec when cpu is highly loaded if cache ratio is oced more than x40.

 

Acts of contempt against customers such as these are unforgivable transgressions.

 

Understanding those are out of my knowledge but I can see that the corporations locking out users which is just shameless, considering the M18x R2 doesn't have any of those limitations.

 

Nothing should be locked on any machine. It's a sin and a crime for any OEM to lock out customers from having unfettered access to every part of the private property that they sold them. It's like selling a house and then changing the locks before the new owner moves in, but giving them the old keys so that all they can do is look at it from the outside.

 

Although nothing should have been locked in any machines firmware...It is even worse if the corporations like AW or any brand lock out Customers from having maximum out of their very expencive Extreme processors they paid an extra high price for

 

AW17 & M17xR4 share the same problems, only AW18 w/ A12 are Maxwell supported.

Nope, I'm able to partially unlock it (68W), this only works under full UEFI...95W max.
Back then I tried to start a small group of testers...but nobody showed any interest, disappointing. Flashed svl7's experimental mods, even M18xR2 ME region, including my stuff... these machines are build to boot >greyed out BIOS menus... I still think it's fixable... AW crippling starting point anyway, M17xR4/XMs owners failed to report this, even though not officially supported...then Dell released AW17 w/ a double pipe heat sink/MX processor, M18x M17x engineers would have never approved such crappy cooling (580M throttling conference call... initial cooling design was more aggressive but rejected later on) instead I decided to upgrade my M17xR3 w/ an R4 motherboard, too late...


Win8.1 result, increase 500+ under Win7 ->73.231W<-