M17x and DPC Latency

Keep in mind that while you may reduce spikes, what you are really doing is killing the GPU's ability to downclock based on load. NVIDIA's PowerMizer is a critical component and should not be toyed with. It's there for a reason. As Rotsu mentioned, your cards will run hotter.

Just a friendly warning... you will have to decide for yourself.

 

I hope that the next bios helps. Vista and 7 64 have nasty latency issues for me. ive seen some latency reach 800k (yup 800k). not sure is going on with this. and yes i have tried doing what is listed on this forum to no resolve.

 

I have used this fix myself. And I have monitored temperatures with both settings.

I idle at 55c with both settings, and playing Dragon Age Origins, max settings, with some enforced extras from the driver like anisotropic filtering and some antialiasing transparency, and it gets to high 60's, hit 70 at one point, but not for very long. Thats the same temps with PowerMizer turned on or off.

So how does it hurt the card?

Draekz

 

I wonder if that means powermizer isn't available for our cards...

I noticed the same myself..

 

Ok this is what i understand from the guys on the Sager forum and my conclusion. The problem with the high latency in this laptop is caused probably by the power management of different component. Mostly the graphics cards.

In Nvidia cards, there are five different power modes (1,2,3,4 and 5) depending on the load, the cards will switch between these power modes to preserve as much power as possible. 1 being lowest clock and 5 being highest(the native card clock speed i believe). The issue here is whenever the card switches between these power modes, the laptop will experience a high spike in latency. By setting the power mode of the card to 5 and preventing it from switching between power plans, this will stop the switching mechanism.

Not i dont know if this is true for sure, but its my theory

 

then explain why the latency will spike when the machine is 100% idle and the graphics cards are doing nothing and therefore not switching between power states (but staying at the lowest state)?

 

Like i said, its not just the graphics cards. Different component are causing it as well. I am almost sure that the wireless lan adaptor factor into this. I turned off the future about turning off the connection when the laptop is idle(device manager> wirelessLAN> power management) have helped the to reduce the latency spikes. I have turned off bluetooth completely as well but im not sure if this helps at all. I rarely see any high spikes of latency anymore.

 

An interesting test would be to remove the 1510 and 370 cards from the unit and re-run the DPC Latency Checker. If someone feels so inclined.

 

Ask in the Sager NP9850 forum that somebody run dpc latency checker and identify their components (firewire chip, etc). It is my understanding that these 2 laptops are very related in their design, therefore it is possible that you might identify what are the hardware differences if they do not experience the same problem.
I asked myself some questions related to dpc latency in that forum but nobody answered. In the Sager Np9280 forum they found no dpc latency issues.

 

It only disables Powermizer on my primary card for whatever reason. The slave card in the SLI connection still has powermizer active and is downclocking. Does anybody know how to change that? I looked at the registry and the setting is the same for both card 0000 and 0001, but for some reason it doesn't seem to take for the slave card.

By the way, my primary GPU runs only 5-8°C hotter when idle with Powermizer disabled than with it enabled, by the way. Under load it's the same. So I don't think it's that much of a issue, especially since the cards run hotter idle with the standard thermal compound on anyway.

 

You are correct.

I also dont know why only one card is affected by powermizer off mode.

 

Any news on the bios?

 

Any news on this would be greatly appreciated;

I tried to call myself to find out about the BIOS and DPC Latency issue, but took a half hour for them to pick up, then transfered me to someone else, then after another half hour of hold I just hung up.

I have noticed, that when I uninstall the video drivers, and do not install any drivers, I do get the red bars but it doesn't spike that high, until I install the Nvidia drivers again (any of them). I dont get any stutter with no video drivers intalled but of course I cant play any games either.

 

I have noticed that the spike happens only when one of my video cards downclocks itself. I tried using powermizer but it only prevents main card from downclocking which doesnt help in my case. I run 260m in SLI btw.

 

I have 280 SLI but with both cards at idle temps (around 32c to 40c) I still get the spikes that go 60,000+ every other few seconds. It does worsen when I listen to music or watch videos in youtube or anything like that.

 

Did you check if clock frequency changes when spike happens? Because only time I get 60k+ is when their frequencies change.

 

Ohh I see, now that you mention that I haven't paid attention to the clock frequencies of the cards, i'll check it out and let you know.

 

Yeah thats the same problem for me. I've decided to not use the PowerMizer off, because my card idles at 50-55c instead of 35-40c.

I love this laptop, and I dont want to lose my video card, wayyy too expensive.

If anyone that knows their stuff says that turning off powermizer is ok, i'll maybe do it, but so far, I"ve read that turning it off will shorten the lifespan of the card.

This problem is so obvious too, I'm surprized that not every single M17x owner is not complaining about this.

I've seen 3 alienware M17x laptops, all different configurations, and all of them have this problem in the exact same way.

Thats why I'm extremely surprized that some users are saying they dont have this problem. Either they are not knowledgable enough to see the problem, or just happen to not have heard the audio skip yet, and its really happening in the background??

I suppose all the models I've seen are NVIDIA GPUs.. never seen a ATI GPU m17x yet.

How would Alienware not notice this problem when releasing the laptop??? Or perhaps they did, but didn't think it would be that big of a deal??

At least they have accepted that it exists and are supposedly working on it. I really pray that this is true, once you know the problem is there, its SOOO obvious.

Draekz

 

Hey guys I have done a little bit of testing my self. I am off shore working in Iran an was fed up with always having to paly games with just one graphics card enabled. So i opened my M17x up and removen both the wifi card and blue tooth card. Rebooted and tested the DPC latency. Still there!! so it is nothing to do with the wifi and bluetooth. I also noticed that the SLI cable in this unit is very make shift looking. And laso where it connects to the graphics card on the right hand side of the unit. The cable is squashed right underneath the copper pipe on the heat sink. I wonder if heat would be from the copper pipe touching the sli cable would be the cause of stuttering while in sli mode. Also i think Dell has chosen a crap motherboard with crap onboard audio chip and that it is this that is causing the DCP latency. These are just my thoughts. So bar a motherboard refresh, i think i will be sending mine back because i really can't see a fix for this, and i only took out 1 year warrenty on this thing, so i don't have that long for dell to fix this problem. Such a shame this is the best looking laptop from alienware so far, and i have had 6 laptops from alienware. But right now my old m9700 runs more stable frame rates on sli then this. This rig should be so smooth at running games in sli but it aint. Shame really...

 

do people with single gou face this problem? i face this problem with the sound when i do something on the web browser. but in games i dont get those frame drops when i select the appropriate setting. use nhancer and try different sli modes.

 

I have a single gpu and I have the same problem, though luckily I dont have any issues with the audio. But games and programs stutter occationally and at complete random. Some games are worse off than others, TF2 is unplayable.

Also, I think it could be wise to do like Rdalcroft, if there is no way this can be fixed, return it before warranty expires.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Nvidia chipset is to blame for all the issues, especially under load.

 

rdalcroft, the audio is not the problem... its the gpu drivers.

 

Ok, so I've been messing around with GPU-Z and device manager trying to figure this out.

My DPC Latency fluctuates from 180 to 4000 and then back again every bar. These in themselves do not cause audio issues, but occasionally I get DCP lag spikes of up to 70,000, and these cause audio skips.

It appears that the large spikes are caused by the Second 280M up/down clocking - the first 280M stays at a constant speed. This would explain why users are getting spikes with SLI enabled and not disabled. I have no idea why the second 280M changes it's clocks and the first one doesn't. I'll try downloading EVGA precision and locking the clocks.

Also, GPU-Z reports that my first PCIe bus is PCIe 2.0, but my second PCIe bus is 1.1? Is that normal?

 

The large latency spikes are almost certainly caused by the Graphics Cards. Even when your computer is idle, your cards may still change clock speeds (windows aero?). No idea what causes the smaller 4000u spikes though.

 

Just as everyone else here I also am having DPC latency issues, spikes upwards of 68k and my highest I've seen so far was 123k. Occasionally I hear a mild crackle and it's annoying, but I'm dealing with it right now. I attached a copy of my latency and as you can see, it spikes periodically, then spikes way up there, those tend to be when I have the most issues.

Also, I have noticed periodic lock ups, at random, with my system. This is coming from both the stock settings and after I reformat and install Windows 7 using Batboy's Blog drivers.

 

This could be because your second GPU is downclocking itself, I have same reading if I let primary GPU downclock itself.

 

Has anybody tried to modify the VGA BIOS of the slave card so the downclocked speeds match the upclocked speeds (or disabling 2D speeds or whatever) to prevent it from changing clocks?

 

is that even possible ?

i dont see any opition in the bios for that.

 

Why is the fix taking so long!!

 

Actually, I'm not even sure if a fix is coming. It's not like it was with the M15x and the keyboard issue, where we heard a fix was coming. There has been no word on this issue.

I do wonder if this is creating the stutters everyone talks about, as I have some random spikes but no stutter. Or maybe the stutters are so light that I can't notice them.

 

I honestly don't think there's a "fix" in the works for this issue. This is something that should have been caught before release of the product.

At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if there's some legal steps that can be taken. There is no reason to have a machine this expensive with problems playing back mp3's. There is no reason anyone should have to go through a ritual installing and removing drivers to use their machine as it was intended.

I order and support Dell machines for my company. We have over 600 Dell's in use, and aside from common issues like memory and hard drive issues, anything more severe is rare. This is my first personal Dell purchase, though. I really don't think I'll be doing it again, because unless you're dealing with their business support, their regular support really sucks.

I'm just ranting right now because it's frustrating owning what could be an amazing machine but has these showstopper issues. I do think that if something isn't done about this latency issue by Dell or Alienware before the end of this year (that'll be 6 months from release of this computer), that I may really consider escalating this further.

 

Maybe someone should contact Engadget and/or Gizmodo or something and let the word out lol. This way we will grab Dell's attention to fix their product and really put into it.....

This is the reason why i appreciate apple when they support their hardware. Anything that comes up as a bug or something, they work day and night until they fix it somehow with a software release.

 

Like the original iPod battery scandal that required a public smear campaign to get Apple to come to the party?

 

That was also 11 years ago?

Come on!

 

This is the best idea so far in this thread.

 

Hi guys, I have the Clevo M980nu which uses the same chipset as the Alienware M17x
reworded:
I get some DPC latency issues as reported by other M980nu owners, but it doesnt seem to be as bad as you guys are reporting!

 

http://www.engadget.com/contact/tips/

Here is a link if people want to try to get this in the news.

 

Sent them a message as well as links to these forums and the issues we've had. I recommend you all do the same, hopefully more media attention will bring a higher urgency to getting this issue resolved.

 

Just sent them a message. I recommend people give a brief expelation to then and provide the links to the stuttering and dpc lettency post.

 

I've sent Engadget, Gizmodo and Ars Technica a brief summary and a link to this post. Tomorrow I'll probably start sending tips off to some enthusiast sites.

 

I've been put right off by this.. I dont want to spend £1800 on a stuttering laptop.... Is there any fix at all?

 

Not everyone is having stuttering issues...

 

So if mine does it I should send it back? I could put bets on it mine would stutter as I dont have much luck in life.

 

I have to say ever since I did a reinstall of windows 7 i've not had stuttering issues.

Sound card issues with the IDT driver however are a problem. In modern warfare two during the cutscenes my audio cuts in and out which is very strange, gameplay is fine though. And when the audio cuts its not really a proper stutter/system freeze that was happening before to me.

It's hit or miss really but gaming seems fine. I dont have the stuttering issues described by powermizer/nvidia users because I went for the ATI cards (basically for this reason, after nVidia on my M1730 I am happy to not go back to them.)

That being said my DPC latency hits 4k at times also. I don't like it. This machine should be better programmed through BIOS or Proper drivers to handle its own hardware. Period.

Especially for the price point and the amount of engineering they put into this thing. I cannot believe they let this huge oversight through quality control. This is being sold to enthusiasts who are the only ones willing to spend this amount of cash and this is an under-the hood problem. Is it so hard to get a perfect computer for the price range in this day and age (after so many iterations of gaming laptops from both companies and lessons learned from each.)

I think if Dell/Alienware is reading this thread, and especially if they're planning any fixes or are aware of this issue, they need to give us a communication. Otherwise I agree, escalate via blogs. Anyone who is about to buy an Alienware will be reading about them on blogs and Dell knows this; they will respond.

 

Batboy,

The stuttering issue is EXTREME on Windows 7. In Vista its much better, but its still there. I am sure everyone have it but the variation differ from one laptop to another, bit its there non the less. I am not experiecing any more stutter in games except few of them, but i got to this point after turning off many things that i need and tweaking the hell out of the system. NO ONE SHOULD EVER NEED TO DO THESE THINGS WITH A $4000 LAPTOP!! lol

 

You're right. For those owners who are encountering severe issues and are unable to work-around them, they should be contacting Dell. Dell is more than capable of troubleshooting and supporting their products under warranty. If in the end there is still no resolution, well - there are other options.

If I were encountering any of the issues some are reporting and was unable to resolve them, I would be returning my M17x or selling it. No reason for anyone to have a system which is not working for them or they are not 100% happy with.

Fortunately I am not having any issues at all (gaming, media playback or anything else). Guess I am one of the lucky ones. Just wrapped up a very long session of MW2 (everything maxed of course) and had no issues at all. Talk about an amazing game... wow.

 

hmm, is dell still working on it ? you guys are talking like they pretty much abandoned it..

 

I have only had issues with latency with my music stuff. Gaming and media has been perfect. Sucks that I have to use my sony laptop for all my music stuff.

 

Is there a number a more direct number I can call where I dont have to wait for an hour for Tech Support?? I want to try to find out more about this issue and if there really is a BIOS in the works to fix it.